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The summit of Mt Chimborazo in Ecuador is 2150m further away from the centre of the earth than the summit of Mt Everest. Does that mean it's higher or bigger or what? Ping
The article mentions that Everest is still growing due to plate-tectonics. I heard some time ago that it grew at a rate of around 1-foot per-year. Can this be verified? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.6.218.248 ( talk • contribs) 21:34, June 3, 2004 (UTC)
Intro to climbing routes section starts by saying the routes are SE and NW ridges, but then goes on to subsections talking about the SE and NE ridges. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.246.135.176 ( talk • contribs) 04:55, April 12, 2005 (UTC)
Just wondering what the "official" Wikipedia policy was on units? The Measurement paragraph lists the SI unit first and then the Imperial unit in parentheses four times, and vice versa five times. There are also numerous references to SI units in isolation and one reference to miles (although this is a rounded value). Not meaning to start some kind of SI vs. Imperial war on this seemingly previously contentious page, but just thought there should be some kind of continuity? -- postglock 04:16, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Scott, for providing this link regarding the now disputed landing of a helicopter on the peak. I wonder why they would make such false claims. Was it really a hoax done by the pilot alone, and the company fell for it? I note that at the moment, the Eurocopter website still claims "World Premiere: A Eurocopter single-engine serial Ecureuil/AStar AS350 B3 lands on the TOP of the world.". Fascinating story. Rl 10:30, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Pure garbage! Obviously the company, not contented to help kill people all over the world, decided to cheat us all too as a mean to sell more of its products.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.19.144.139 ( talk • contribs) 14:55, August 13, 2006
I see that this article is well maintained - I created an image from NASA's image library (see http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/policies.html for usage) which is pretty stunning. Maybe one of the editors would like to put it up? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 20040302 ( talk • contribs) 09:33, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
If one clicks the 6th link ( http://thegreatindian.tripod.com/mountEverest.htm ) the descrpition says that Sagarmatha means the forehead of the sea, while the article says of the sky- does anybody know which is correct? - samaraphile
Does any one know why this article is titled Everest instead of Chomolangma? What are the geographic classification standards being followed? Does Wikipedia follow U.S. or international standards? Can we put this to a vote? Thanks harburg 2005-09-25 20:25:51 UTC
Before there is a mass change of articles to use the new elevation as reported by PRC, I would like to see a public scientific analysis of PRC's analysis. To go from 8848 to 8850 and then all the way back down to 8844 is quite a step. Does anyone know if the PRC has released their findings publicly to allow this to take place? I guess Nepal never officially recognized the 8850 m and still used the older 8848 m. Has anyone seen an official statement from Nepal regarding the PRC announcement? RedWolf 03:51, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Obviously, when we delve into this topic, controversey is bound to occur thanks to the widespread publicity. The latest revision says that most of the climbing community supported Boukreev. With his decision to guide without oxygen, I was under the impression that this was widely criticized. This came from the Saloon debates, in which Jon Krakauer said that Reinhold Messner sharply criticized Boukreev for not using oxygen [2]. So, should it be reverted, changed to balance out both sides, or call Krakauer a liar? Hbdragon88 05:50, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
That has been asked before (see above) but not answered. It just makes no sense!
why is it "hillary" for edmund hillary, but "tenzing" for tenzing norgay? 216.8.14.218 16:51, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
How about adding a picture taken from the summit? That has to be one of the greatest rewards for climbing Everest, not to mention a killer view. EatYourGreens 05:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Why does the information box at the top of the article say that Everest's prominence is the same as its height? 'Cause it's not. The only other source I could find said its prominence was 10m, but I doubt it's that either. Does anyone have a non-internet source about Everest that gives its prominence? gr_scott_jo
This appears in the section on measurement:
Was the survey really conducted by a Mexican team? This seems unlikely to me. Molinari 00:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
This already exceeds Wikipedia's recommendation, and I am concerned about the uncontrolled additions to the Timeline and Trivia section. There is not space for first ascents by nationals of every country. If this is of interest then it should be on a separate page. Comments? Viewfinder 17:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Some time ago I restored the elevation to its most often quoted figure of 8,848 m, having explained my reasons on Talk:List of countries by highest point. This seemed to have been accepted, but today there were two attempts to replace it with 8850 m so I have reproduced these reasons here.
The US GPS 8,850 m and Chinese 8,844 m elevations are mentioned in the main article.
There have been several recent surveys of Everest and K2 claiming precision to less than a meter, some giving higher figures than the traditional 8,848 m and 8,611 m, others giving lower figures, and the spread of these exceeds their claimed accuracy. They should therefore be regarded as publicity seeking and should be ignored. In reality, the Himalayan geoid has not been determined with sufficient accuracy to allow such precision. A further point with regard to the recent Chinese survey: according to the Mount Everest page, the geologic height was measured, not the height including perennial snow and ice cover. The logical extenstion of this would demand that the elevation of Mont Blanc (which varies seasonally) be lowered by 10-20 m, Khan Tangiri Shyngy to 6,995m and the South Pole to around or below sea level. Until several independent measurements show a consistent error margin, the elevations of Mount Everest and K2 should stand at 8,848 m and 8,611 m, in line with official topographic mapping, and confusing alternatives should be rejected.
A further point: the depth of snow and ice cover, on which the elevation depends, is not constant. So small changes to the long accepted 8,848 m are superfluous. In effect, the US GPS survey merely confirmed the accuracy of the earlier survey that gave 8,848 m. If there had been a difference exceeding, say, 10 meters or more, the issue would have arisen and if this had been confirmed by the Chinese survey, then the case for changing the 8,848 m elevation would have been good. Indeed, I have altered many long standing elevations elsewhere, where I have been able to cite reliable evidence.
Any editor who thinks the elevation of 8,848 m should not be used on the Everest page should add his reasons here before editing the main article. If a significant number of readers agree on an alternative figure, or anyone supplies a compelling reason why it should be changed, then I will accept it. Otherwise I will continue to revert changes to it. Viewfinder 22:13, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the above comments and for explaining your edit, unlike others who have been making the same edit. However, you say that the Chinese measurement (8,844 m) is "likely to be within 1 metre". Please go to [3] and [4], which state that the Chinese survey, the most recent, measured a rock head height of 8844.43m and a snow/ice depth of 3.5m. I make that 8,848 m.
Obviously the elevation depends on the snow depth. I have never been there, but afaik Everest's summit is not likely to bear a six metre depth of snow and ice. See 2.55 m given here, and K2 snow depth of 2.22m [5]. So it seems unlikely that both surveys can justify their claimed accuracy, and it seems that the Chinese survey implies that a net 8,848 m height (as measured for the purposes of this article) is more accurate. While I do not dispute your claims about the accuracy of DGPS relative to its reference points, in reality:
The 8,848 m height has been accepted for a long time, is still accepted officially by Nepal, and appears on its official 1:50,000 topographic map. Imo that is a very strong argument for retaining it, at least until an alternative has been established by more than one independent source. Otherwise it means that either the elevations have to be changed everywhere - not just several other Wikipedia and other web sites but in print, too. Also, supporters of the 8,848 m elevation take a neutral stance between the Chinese and the USA, supporting neither one nor the other.
Aside: The National Geographic Society, who sponsored the Washburn survey, could more usefully spend more of its resources elsewhere where peak heights are still seriously uncertain. Moreover their august reputation will not deter me from challenging their competence on elevation matters. See Talk:Khardungla_Pass (section 6) for hard evidence of major errors in elevations given by this organisation. Also, Washburn would have had reasons for wanting to change the elevation; if he had reaffirmed 8,848 m, the value of his survey would have been more likely to be questioned.
Summary: if we adopt the practice of changing elevations in our encyclopedias every time a new DGPS survey gives a new figure, even if it varies by 2 m or less from existing elevations, then the result will be widespread disagreement among sources. It is better to be consistent. Albeit that is no longer possible with Everest; you are right that that 8,850 m is now often given.
Postscript: this postdates the Washburn survey. Viewfinder 20:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Further to the above, I have discovered a detailed account [6] of the Washburn survey, which states that the 8,850 m elevation is the rockhead and that the snow/ice added an additional 1 m. So there is a clear conflict with the more recent Chinese survey. Perhaps a new survey, completely independent and impartial, is needed. Viewfinder 21:35, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I find the following section rather confusing:
At first, it sounds like Krakauer is against bottled oxygen. Then later, it sounds like Krakauer thinks Anatoli should have used bottled oxygen and that Boukreev's supporters such as DeWalt are opposed to the use of bottle oxygen (which Krakauer also was supposedly against). Then it goes on to say climbers support Krakauers views (on what? that bottled oxygen should be banned?).
Nil Einne 15:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Boukreev died in a later climbing accident, and I think that should be included.
It seems Krakauer's main issue is inexperienced climbers on the mountain, not oxygen - he thinks it helps unqualified get up the mountain and contributes to the dumping of spent bottles on the summit. However, if they are going to attempt to reach the summit, the climbers and their guides should be using oxygen. Guides especially have a duty to assist their clibers no matter what; so Krakauer wants they to be able to assist for the longest window of time possible, and oxygen helps to achieve that.
I'll make these updates to the article (in a cleaner format) if no one has any objections. Jeeper275 21:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)Jeeper275
From the Tenzing page:
It sounds to me like the details of Hillary's account need to be updated. At the moment, it makes it sound like Hillary completely supports the idea that it was a team effort without either being more worthy of recognition (which was what I always thought). However according to my quote above from the Tenzing page, this is not really true, (although as far as I know and not disputed by the Tenzing page, Hillary has never confirmed who reached the summit first). Nil Einne 16:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Wasn't the axe of Mallory or Irving found recently in ice, which is proof they reached the top of the world? I can't see this mentioned in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.70.32.136 ( talk • contribs) 09:09, May 29, 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that to describe the events of 1924 and 1996 (and 2006) without having a detailed guide to the 'geography' of the route between the North Col and the Summit is to leave the reader somewhat 'in the dark'. The main everest article doesn't quite go into enough detail. Perhaps there is a case for creating an 'child' article 'Everest North Col to Summit Route Detail' (or suchlike). So that's what I'm working on at the moment. It's actually quite complex - and made interesting by the fact that some climbers seem to interchange terms when describing the features along the way.
The format I'm aiming towards is an initial diagram (cross section) with several different 'layers' of information - (1) features - each relating to a text section lower down in the articl (2) vertical and horizontal distances between features (3) climbing time between features (4) location of events such as rescues/deaths/irving's ice axe etc (5) climbing route(s) around features. My timeframe to complete the first draft of this is about a week.. I am concentrating on the SE Ridge initially because that is where most of the historical incidents/controversies have happened.
What I'm aiming to do after that is tackle the 1996 events from a NPOV stance in order to 'round up' the separate references to them in the articles on the climbers involved in those events (a tall order I agree..). And then slot that information into a series of articles/references that refer to notable rescues, attempted rescues, deaths and bivouacs near the summit. A sort of catalogue of exception human activities around the summit that don't necessarilly get into the record of 'successful summits', thus going a bit further towards 'filling out the story' of human endeavour on the mountain. An example is the case of Fran Arsentiev. If you know the details of that event, or look it up link, you'll apppreciate that I am talking about both tragic and heroic human endeavours. Tban 03:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Under ascents->facts it is stated that "179 people (have) died while summitting". Where does this information come from? Is there a death list for climbers who have died whilst mountaineering on everest? Should it be included in wikipedia? -- Fergie 12:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I just realized that there's no article for this great movie. It was on the A&E channel and is about the first (and only so far I believe) blind man to climb Mount Everest. Has anyone else viewed this? Anyone want to help add to the article? Tyciol 04:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
My understanding is that we are talking about Erik Weihenmayer, who made an ascent of Everest in 2001. Erik who has been blind since the age of 13 (at which stage he already had an interest in rock climbing) is an interesting guy. He acknowledges he can't climb without team support, that's to say he makes his own way when he can using his sense of sound particularly, but he can't lead, and needs very clear directions on chaotic ground. But as he puts it he pulls his weight in camp and carrying. He seems to have a good sense of his abilities, and looking from the outside it seems as if he warrants the appelation 'serious climber'. Incidentally he is on his way to completing the seven summits. A documentary was made about the climb in 2003 called 'Farther than the eye can see' using high definition footage from the expedition. Erik subsequently wrote a book called 'Touch the Top of the World', which was the basis of the A&E teleplay (a sort of documentary).
General Info Movie: Farther than the eye can see National Federation of the Blind Everest 2001 Expedition Movie:Touch the Top of the World
He sounds like he warrants a wiki article in his own right (based on probable public interest). He would (as I understand it) belong in the list of Everest 'firsts' and in the 'Climbers List', and be referenced from those places to his own article. I have too much on my plate at the moment to do more than give you these links though.. It'd be interesting to understand the man behind the portrayal in the teleplay - which someone describes as 'a blind mountain-climbing Mother Teresa'. Cheers, Tban 09:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Stemonitis has removed the category "Mountains of China" with the note "Rv. Mountains of Tibet is a child of Mountains of China". If you click on the category "Mountains of Tibet", there is no sign that this is a "child" of "Mountains of China". To remove that information doesn't make sense, so I've reinserted the category "Mountains of China". — Babelfisch 01:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
It is ridiculous that Mount Everest should not appear in the category "Mountains of China". I guess this is a political issue, not a formal technical question. — Babelfisch 08:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it fair to say that Hillary and Norgay were the first to climb to the summit of Mt. Everest? Surely the Tibetans and/or Nepalese reached the top at some point in the hundreds of years before the Europeans colonised eastern Asia; or is it simply a case of the first recorded instance from a reliable source that someone scaled the mountain (in which case, the article ought to make it a bit more clear). A.G. Pinkwater 13:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I share your (seemingly) healthy skeptical view of the tendency for the 'west' to reinterpret the world solely in terms of 'European' achievement. However in this case I'd say we are on fairly safe ground in suggesting Hillary & Tenzing, and possibly Mallory, were the first 'on top'. The reason is not the requirement for bottled oxygen (Sherpas could do without supplementary oxygen), but simply the accumulated technical difficulties that were overcome (even in Mallory's day) by a 'suite' of technical solutions (not least crampons) that did not exist in Sherpa culture prior to that time. If some hardy Sherpa (perhaps the fellow who posed nude at the summit) were to climb the mountain using only materials available in traditional Sherpa culture - and in doing so avoid using any of the hundreds of fixed ropes on the mountain or the Chinese aluminium ladder on the Second Step - then I'd have to revisit my opinion. One thing further, however tells against the liklihood of an early Sherpa ascent, and that is the lack of an oral tradition - or any contemporary suggestion in Sherpa society or China (always keen to take credit for 'firsts') that any one else 'got there first'. What is true though, is that with very few exceptions, most climbers who have got to the top wouldn't be there without the assistance of Sherpas, and no doubt things will remain that way until the someone installs an elevator inside the mountain. After all, what are we talking about, possibly 4 or 5 miles of rock boring? Tban 14:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
There is absolutely no tradition of climbing mountains just for fun with Sherpas, or any other similar mountain cultures. Not even he lower ones. Even in Europe the highest peaks were climbed for the first time only in the nineteenth century, many by Brittish outdoor enthusiasts, not locals (who worked as guides for tourists)! Thus the idea of some Sherpa climbing the Mountain a long time ago is not based on facts but romantic idealism. (Petrus) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.65.255.1 ( talk • contribs) 16:33, 28 August 2006.
Did someone hear about a well guarded secret that China have undeniable proof that Mallory and Irvine summited, and that they, the chinese, are holding the information until Sir Hillary dies, afraid that the news will upset the old man too much?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:201.19.171.206
The second step before the summit on the Tibetan side is so difficult (about 5.8 American scale) that in the twenties that kind of rock was not climbed even in England or Alps. Thus it is unrealistic to think Irvin and Mallory could have climbed something like that at 8600 meters when they coud not do it even at sea level. The Chinese put up a ladder on that spot in early sixties and everybody has always used that. Exept Conrad Anker, who test climbed that section and became the only person so far to do it. (Petrus) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.65.255.1 ( talk • contribs) 16:38, 28 August 2006.
That Everest is neither the tallest mountain nor the highest elevated mountain right?
-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.117.157.66 ( talk • contribs) 17:47, September 12, 2006 (UTC)
Does the article Kangshung Face, Mount Everest need to be separate or should it be merged into the main Mount Everest article? If that article does stay separate, or if it becomes a section of this one, the NASA space photo above may be good for it. Comments? -- Spireguy 16:45, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
i think that maybe there could be a map of the mountain that shows where it is 70.190.180.166 00:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)#
Goodness gracious me. How can a Wikipedia administrator consider that Panorama from the top of Mt.Everest violates WP:EL? Also, summitpost and panorama links, which were also deleted, appear on many other mountain sites and have long been accepted by the Wikipedia community. The summitpost links provide much more information than the Wikipedia articles, and the panoramas provide unique information not available elsewhere. Admittedly the panoramas are mine and are on my site, but I did not add them originally and I really cannot see how they can be considered spam or contrary to WP:EL. Viewfinder 04:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Are miles and kilometers reserved for distance?
Despite referencing and footnoting, in the last 48 hours I reverted an unexplained change to 8844m and another to 8850m. I have explained on this page why the snow cap should be used (consistency with Mont Blanc) and why the snow cap elevation implied by the most recent survey (2005) should be used (which is 8848m). But whatever we do, we should not be changing the elevation frequently. If other editors disagree with the elevation currently supported then please could they debate the issue here first. Viewfinder 02:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The photo from the space station (image:himalaya_annotated.jpg) has some inaccurate captions, as noted on its discussion pages on Wikipedia and on the Commons. Not sure if the picture should be removed, as it is mostly OK. -- Spireguy 17:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Not for the first time, an administrator has been removing external links which do not contravene WP:EL. While some of the links removed may have been rightly removed, the links removed again included Panorama from the top of Mt.Everest, and the summitpost link. These and other links removed contain information not in the article, and should not have been removed without more explanation. In particular, some of the links were removed under a "rvv" edit. Yes the edit removed vandalism, but it removed much more, and should have stated so. Viewfinder 00:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I repeat, that some of these links may have been correctly removed. I am not defending all of them, but I do not think that there are necessarily too many. You will find just as many at George W. Bush, where you will also find a list of 129 references. Summitpost contains loads of information not in mountain articles. The panoramas.dk link is to an amazing 360 degree photograph of the view from the summit. This is relevant and, imo, of considerable interest and I vigorously oppose its removal. It is certainly not spam. Can you tell me which guideline clause its inclusion violates? I also oppose the removal of the computer generated annotated panoramas. Here I must declare an interest, in that I am the author of these panoramas, although I did not post the link to them myself. Similar computer generated panoramas appear on many mountain sites and have been generally accepted by the Wikipedia community for some time. Go to User_talk:Gillean666#Spam_reverting. (I have addressed the reasonable concern about commercial linkage).
The article was becoming too long, which is why, a few months ago, I set up a separate timeline climbing page.
I must also repeat my objection to the sneaky removal of external links in an edit entitled "rvv further more". Do you have any particular knowledge of mountains? I have not seen any contributions by you to mountain pages, other than occasional vandalism removal. If not, I suggest that you should have left a note on this discussion page about excess external links, but left it to those who do have knowledge of mountains to decide which ones, if any, should be removed. Viewfinder 11:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I suggest having only the following links:
Most of the links I would like to remove are either to web directories (that are not very helpful), planned expeditions (that do not give much further information), travel guides (do we really need that?) or picture collections (which there are hundreds of). One link does more good at the Bill Tilman article (and it has been added there by me), one link (naked man story) is better used by writing something in the article itself and linking to the news story as a ref, I've actually added one new link, the RGS page on Everest. I do like the panoramas and have nothing against keeping links to them, only bundling the two links together. Done the same with Google-related content. Comments? – Elisson • T • C • 22:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I objected to the action of deleting several external links in an edit entitled "rvv further more". I am sorry that the administrator responsible has taken that personally. I don't think that objecting to the action of an adminstrator violates WP:NPA. We are a democracy! I also think that it is unhelpful to describe the deleted external links as "gross violations of WP:EL", with no further explanation. I further note that my explained restoration edits appear to have been reverted without explanation by two administrators using the administrators' rollback facility. Surely that is intended for fighting abuse, not as a weapon in content disputes against good faith editors.
Anyway, following the helpful suggestions by Johan Elisson, I propose to edit the section in line with his suggestion. But I still think that two more links, which I have defended above, should be restored.
There are links to both the above sites on many Wikipedia mountain pages, where they have long been accepted. I do not think they come under any of the categories listed by Johan above. If any other editors oppose the restoration of these two links, then please could they explain their opposition here. Otherwise I will restore them. Viewfinder 00:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
My two cents: I agree that there were way too many external links, and that most of the removal was quite justifiable. However I also agree with Viewfinder that some of the removal would better have been done in the context of a discussion on the talk page. Personally, I find the guidelines at WP:EL not crystal-clear, and subject to differing interpretation by reasonable editors. So it does make sense to explain changes under that guideline, if asked to do so.
I think the status of the page right now is pretty good, including the Summitpost link and all of the panoramas. The links are all useful, and the number is not unreasonable at all (imo). -- Spireguy 04:02, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
The summitpost and panoramas issue is important because there are summitpost and panorama links attached to many mountain pages. We are a democracy and if most contributors think that they should go, then they should go. But I think that this is primarily a decision for those with a specific interest in mountains, rather than for sysops or even Jimbo Wales. The above edit implies that there should be no external links, that anyone wanting more info can type "Mount Everest" into Google. But that is not what WP:EL states, and if I do this I get mainly links in the categories listed by Johan Elisson. If something new and unique is created then it will not show up easily on Google, so the case of Wikipedia listing it may be good. The key questions should be: is it relevant, is it useful and is it worth the space it occupies? I think that the extent of the view from the top is worth four words, and contributors to User_talk:Gillean666#Spam_reverting seem to agree. Even better would be to create a panorama section, referencing the panoramas, but that would take up more space. Viewfinder 13:05, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I think that your question has been answered by Johan when he suggested four categories which should be excluded, and by my suggestion that new links should be useful, relevant and worth the space. I add a further suggestion - that we should not have links that duplicate each other. If someone provides a better annotated panorama then it should replace mine, not be listed alongside it. You mention a "multitude", but I know of no other panoramic websites, commercial or otherwise, which identify the features of view from the summit, and I know of no other 360 degree photographic summit panorama other that the one acquired by Roddy Mackenzie. Viewfinder 23:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I reverted the last two edits to remove the mention of Denali/McKinley as the "highest above base" in the world. This is an inherently ill-defined concept, but by any reasonable definition, McKinley doesn't win, as there are peaks in the Himalaya which achieve more vertical gain over any given horizonal distance than does McKinley. (This is not to say that McKinley isn't a very, very large peak, or that it doesn't beat Everest in some aspects of vertical relief.) Because it is a slippery notion, it's best not to talk about the comparison at all. (In fact, even the reference to Mauna Kea should probably be clarified a bit, by saying where the undersea "base" of that peak is, but I'm not going to do that now.) -- Spireguy 03:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, i just noticed vandalism on the page. I Dont know how to correct it, but can someone remove the offensive content near the top?
Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.252.118.102 ( talk) 23:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
So was it an 80% reduction or a 14% reduction? The new cite is inconsistent with the number in the text. Someone want to sort this out? -- Spireguy 22:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Picture taken by me at Buddha Air Everest tour.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
The summit of Mt Chimborazo in Ecuador is 2150m further away from the centre of the earth than the summit of Mt Everest. Does that mean it's higher or bigger or what? Ping
The article mentions that Everest is still growing due to plate-tectonics. I heard some time ago that it grew at a rate of around 1-foot per-year. Can this be verified? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.6.218.248 ( talk • contribs) 21:34, June 3, 2004 (UTC)
Intro to climbing routes section starts by saying the routes are SE and NW ridges, but then goes on to subsections talking about the SE and NE ridges. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.246.135.176 ( talk • contribs) 04:55, April 12, 2005 (UTC)
Just wondering what the "official" Wikipedia policy was on units? The Measurement paragraph lists the SI unit first and then the Imperial unit in parentheses four times, and vice versa five times. There are also numerous references to SI units in isolation and one reference to miles (although this is a rounded value). Not meaning to start some kind of SI vs. Imperial war on this seemingly previously contentious page, but just thought there should be some kind of continuity? -- postglock 04:16, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Scott, for providing this link regarding the now disputed landing of a helicopter on the peak. I wonder why they would make such false claims. Was it really a hoax done by the pilot alone, and the company fell for it? I note that at the moment, the Eurocopter website still claims "World Premiere: A Eurocopter single-engine serial Ecureuil/AStar AS350 B3 lands on the TOP of the world.". Fascinating story. Rl 10:30, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Pure garbage! Obviously the company, not contented to help kill people all over the world, decided to cheat us all too as a mean to sell more of its products.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.19.144.139 ( talk • contribs) 14:55, August 13, 2006
I see that this article is well maintained - I created an image from NASA's image library (see http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/policies.html for usage) which is pretty stunning. Maybe one of the editors would like to put it up? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 20040302 ( talk • contribs) 09:33, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
If one clicks the 6th link ( http://thegreatindian.tripod.com/mountEverest.htm ) the descrpition says that Sagarmatha means the forehead of the sea, while the article says of the sky- does anybody know which is correct? - samaraphile
Does any one know why this article is titled Everest instead of Chomolangma? What are the geographic classification standards being followed? Does Wikipedia follow U.S. or international standards? Can we put this to a vote? Thanks harburg 2005-09-25 20:25:51 UTC
Before there is a mass change of articles to use the new elevation as reported by PRC, I would like to see a public scientific analysis of PRC's analysis. To go from 8848 to 8850 and then all the way back down to 8844 is quite a step. Does anyone know if the PRC has released their findings publicly to allow this to take place? I guess Nepal never officially recognized the 8850 m and still used the older 8848 m. Has anyone seen an official statement from Nepal regarding the PRC announcement? RedWolf 03:51, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Obviously, when we delve into this topic, controversey is bound to occur thanks to the widespread publicity. The latest revision says that most of the climbing community supported Boukreev. With his decision to guide without oxygen, I was under the impression that this was widely criticized. This came from the Saloon debates, in which Jon Krakauer said that Reinhold Messner sharply criticized Boukreev for not using oxygen [2]. So, should it be reverted, changed to balance out both sides, or call Krakauer a liar? Hbdragon88 05:50, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
That has been asked before (see above) but not answered. It just makes no sense!
why is it "hillary" for edmund hillary, but "tenzing" for tenzing norgay? 216.8.14.218 16:51, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
How about adding a picture taken from the summit? That has to be one of the greatest rewards for climbing Everest, not to mention a killer view. EatYourGreens 05:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Why does the information box at the top of the article say that Everest's prominence is the same as its height? 'Cause it's not. The only other source I could find said its prominence was 10m, but I doubt it's that either. Does anyone have a non-internet source about Everest that gives its prominence? gr_scott_jo
This appears in the section on measurement:
Was the survey really conducted by a Mexican team? This seems unlikely to me. Molinari 00:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
This already exceeds Wikipedia's recommendation, and I am concerned about the uncontrolled additions to the Timeline and Trivia section. There is not space for first ascents by nationals of every country. If this is of interest then it should be on a separate page. Comments? Viewfinder 17:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Some time ago I restored the elevation to its most often quoted figure of 8,848 m, having explained my reasons on Talk:List of countries by highest point. This seemed to have been accepted, but today there were two attempts to replace it with 8850 m so I have reproduced these reasons here.
The US GPS 8,850 m and Chinese 8,844 m elevations are mentioned in the main article.
There have been several recent surveys of Everest and K2 claiming precision to less than a meter, some giving higher figures than the traditional 8,848 m and 8,611 m, others giving lower figures, and the spread of these exceeds their claimed accuracy. They should therefore be regarded as publicity seeking and should be ignored. In reality, the Himalayan geoid has not been determined with sufficient accuracy to allow such precision. A further point with regard to the recent Chinese survey: according to the Mount Everest page, the geologic height was measured, not the height including perennial snow and ice cover. The logical extenstion of this would demand that the elevation of Mont Blanc (which varies seasonally) be lowered by 10-20 m, Khan Tangiri Shyngy to 6,995m and the South Pole to around or below sea level. Until several independent measurements show a consistent error margin, the elevations of Mount Everest and K2 should stand at 8,848 m and 8,611 m, in line with official topographic mapping, and confusing alternatives should be rejected.
A further point: the depth of snow and ice cover, on which the elevation depends, is not constant. So small changes to the long accepted 8,848 m are superfluous. In effect, the US GPS survey merely confirmed the accuracy of the earlier survey that gave 8,848 m. If there had been a difference exceeding, say, 10 meters or more, the issue would have arisen and if this had been confirmed by the Chinese survey, then the case for changing the 8,848 m elevation would have been good. Indeed, I have altered many long standing elevations elsewhere, where I have been able to cite reliable evidence.
Any editor who thinks the elevation of 8,848 m should not be used on the Everest page should add his reasons here before editing the main article. If a significant number of readers agree on an alternative figure, or anyone supplies a compelling reason why it should be changed, then I will accept it. Otherwise I will continue to revert changes to it. Viewfinder 22:13, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the above comments and for explaining your edit, unlike others who have been making the same edit. However, you say that the Chinese measurement (8,844 m) is "likely to be within 1 metre". Please go to [3] and [4], which state that the Chinese survey, the most recent, measured a rock head height of 8844.43m and a snow/ice depth of 3.5m. I make that 8,848 m.
Obviously the elevation depends on the snow depth. I have never been there, but afaik Everest's summit is not likely to bear a six metre depth of snow and ice. See 2.55 m given here, and K2 snow depth of 2.22m [5]. So it seems unlikely that both surveys can justify their claimed accuracy, and it seems that the Chinese survey implies that a net 8,848 m height (as measured for the purposes of this article) is more accurate. While I do not dispute your claims about the accuracy of DGPS relative to its reference points, in reality:
The 8,848 m height has been accepted for a long time, is still accepted officially by Nepal, and appears on its official 1:50,000 topographic map. Imo that is a very strong argument for retaining it, at least until an alternative has been established by more than one independent source. Otherwise it means that either the elevations have to be changed everywhere - not just several other Wikipedia and other web sites but in print, too. Also, supporters of the 8,848 m elevation take a neutral stance between the Chinese and the USA, supporting neither one nor the other.
Aside: The National Geographic Society, who sponsored the Washburn survey, could more usefully spend more of its resources elsewhere where peak heights are still seriously uncertain. Moreover their august reputation will not deter me from challenging their competence on elevation matters. See Talk:Khardungla_Pass (section 6) for hard evidence of major errors in elevations given by this organisation. Also, Washburn would have had reasons for wanting to change the elevation; if he had reaffirmed 8,848 m, the value of his survey would have been more likely to be questioned.
Summary: if we adopt the practice of changing elevations in our encyclopedias every time a new DGPS survey gives a new figure, even if it varies by 2 m or less from existing elevations, then the result will be widespread disagreement among sources. It is better to be consistent. Albeit that is no longer possible with Everest; you are right that that 8,850 m is now often given.
Postscript: this postdates the Washburn survey. Viewfinder 20:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Further to the above, I have discovered a detailed account [6] of the Washburn survey, which states that the 8,850 m elevation is the rockhead and that the snow/ice added an additional 1 m. So there is a clear conflict with the more recent Chinese survey. Perhaps a new survey, completely independent and impartial, is needed. Viewfinder 21:35, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I find the following section rather confusing:
At first, it sounds like Krakauer is against bottled oxygen. Then later, it sounds like Krakauer thinks Anatoli should have used bottled oxygen and that Boukreev's supporters such as DeWalt are opposed to the use of bottle oxygen (which Krakauer also was supposedly against). Then it goes on to say climbers support Krakauers views (on what? that bottled oxygen should be banned?).
Nil Einne 15:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Boukreev died in a later climbing accident, and I think that should be included.
It seems Krakauer's main issue is inexperienced climbers on the mountain, not oxygen - he thinks it helps unqualified get up the mountain and contributes to the dumping of spent bottles on the summit. However, if they are going to attempt to reach the summit, the climbers and their guides should be using oxygen. Guides especially have a duty to assist their clibers no matter what; so Krakauer wants they to be able to assist for the longest window of time possible, and oxygen helps to achieve that.
I'll make these updates to the article (in a cleaner format) if no one has any objections. Jeeper275 21:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)Jeeper275
From the Tenzing page:
It sounds to me like the details of Hillary's account need to be updated. At the moment, it makes it sound like Hillary completely supports the idea that it was a team effort without either being more worthy of recognition (which was what I always thought). However according to my quote above from the Tenzing page, this is not really true, (although as far as I know and not disputed by the Tenzing page, Hillary has never confirmed who reached the summit first). Nil Einne 16:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Wasn't the axe of Mallory or Irving found recently in ice, which is proof they reached the top of the world? I can't see this mentioned in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.70.32.136 ( talk • contribs) 09:09, May 29, 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that to describe the events of 1924 and 1996 (and 2006) without having a detailed guide to the 'geography' of the route between the North Col and the Summit is to leave the reader somewhat 'in the dark'. The main everest article doesn't quite go into enough detail. Perhaps there is a case for creating an 'child' article 'Everest North Col to Summit Route Detail' (or suchlike). So that's what I'm working on at the moment. It's actually quite complex - and made interesting by the fact that some climbers seem to interchange terms when describing the features along the way.
The format I'm aiming towards is an initial diagram (cross section) with several different 'layers' of information - (1) features - each relating to a text section lower down in the articl (2) vertical and horizontal distances between features (3) climbing time between features (4) location of events such as rescues/deaths/irving's ice axe etc (5) climbing route(s) around features. My timeframe to complete the first draft of this is about a week.. I am concentrating on the SE Ridge initially because that is where most of the historical incidents/controversies have happened.
What I'm aiming to do after that is tackle the 1996 events from a NPOV stance in order to 'round up' the separate references to them in the articles on the climbers involved in those events (a tall order I agree..). And then slot that information into a series of articles/references that refer to notable rescues, attempted rescues, deaths and bivouacs near the summit. A sort of catalogue of exception human activities around the summit that don't necessarilly get into the record of 'successful summits', thus going a bit further towards 'filling out the story' of human endeavour on the mountain. An example is the case of Fran Arsentiev. If you know the details of that event, or look it up link, you'll apppreciate that I am talking about both tragic and heroic human endeavours. Tban 03:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Under ascents->facts it is stated that "179 people (have) died while summitting". Where does this information come from? Is there a death list for climbers who have died whilst mountaineering on everest? Should it be included in wikipedia? -- Fergie 12:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I just realized that there's no article for this great movie. It was on the A&E channel and is about the first (and only so far I believe) blind man to climb Mount Everest. Has anyone else viewed this? Anyone want to help add to the article? Tyciol 04:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
My understanding is that we are talking about Erik Weihenmayer, who made an ascent of Everest in 2001. Erik who has been blind since the age of 13 (at which stage he already had an interest in rock climbing) is an interesting guy. He acknowledges he can't climb without team support, that's to say he makes his own way when he can using his sense of sound particularly, but he can't lead, and needs very clear directions on chaotic ground. But as he puts it he pulls his weight in camp and carrying. He seems to have a good sense of his abilities, and looking from the outside it seems as if he warrants the appelation 'serious climber'. Incidentally he is on his way to completing the seven summits. A documentary was made about the climb in 2003 called 'Farther than the eye can see' using high definition footage from the expedition. Erik subsequently wrote a book called 'Touch the Top of the World', which was the basis of the A&E teleplay (a sort of documentary).
General Info Movie: Farther than the eye can see National Federation of the Blind Everest 2001 Expedition Movie:Touch the Top of the World
He sounds like he warrants a wiki article in his own right (based on probable public interest). He would (as I understand it) belong in the list of Everest 'firsts' and in the 'Climbers List', and be referenced from those places to his own article. I have too much on my plate at the moment to do more than give you these links though.. It'd be interesting to understand the man behind the portrayal in the teleplay - which someone describes as 'a blind mountain-climbing Mother Teresa'. Cheers, Tban 09:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Stemonitis has removed the category "Mountains of China" with the note "Rv. Mountains of Tibet is a child of Mountains of China". If you click on the category "Mountains of Tibet", there is no sign that this is a "child" of "Mountains of China". To remove that information doesn't make sense, so I've reinserted the category "Mountains of China". — Babelfisch 01:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
It is ridiculous that Mount Everest should not appear in the category "Mountains of China". I guess this is a political issue, not a formal technical question. — Babelfisch 08:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it fair to say that Hillary and Norgay were the first to climb to the summit of Mt. Everest? Surely the Tibetans and/or Nepalese reached the top at some point in the hundreds of years before the Europeans colonised eastern Asia; or is it simply a case of the first recorded instance from a reliable source that someone scaled the mountain (in which case, the article ought to make it a bit more clear). A.G. Pinkwater 13:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I share your (seemingly) healthy skeptical view of the tendency for the 'west' to reinterpret the world solely in terms of 'European' achievement. However in this case I'd say we are on fairly safe ground in suggesting Hillary & Tenzing, and possibly Mallory, were the first 'on top'. The reason is not the requirement for bottled oxygen (Sherpas could do without supplementary oxygen), but simply the accumulated technical difficulties that were overcome (even in Mallory's day) by a 'suite' of technical solutions (not least crampons) that did not exist in Sherpa culture prior to that time. If some hardy Sherpa (perhaps the fellow who posed nude at the summit) were to climb the mountain using only materials available in traditional Sherpa culture - and in doing so avoid using any of the hundreds of fixed ropes on the mountain or the Chinese aluminium ladder on the Second Step - then I'd have to revisit my opinion. One thing further, however tells against the liklihood of an early Sherpa ascent, and that is the lack of an oral tradition - or any contemporary suggestion in Sherpa society or China (always keen to take credit for 'firsts') that any one else 'got there first'. What is true though, is that with very few exceptions, most climbers who have got to the top wouldn't be there without the assistance of Sherpas, and no doubt things will remain that way until the someone installs an elevator inside the mountain. After all, what are we talking about, possibly 4 or 5 miles of rock boring? Tban 14:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
There is absolutely no tradition of climbing mountains just for fun with Sherpas, or any other similar mountain cultures. Not even he lower ones. Even in Europe the highest peaks were climbed for the first time only in the nineteenth century, many by Brittish outdoor enthusiasts, not locals (who worked as guides for tourists)! Thus the idea of some Sherpa climbing the Mountain a long time ago is not based on facts but romantic idealism. (Petrus) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.65.255.1 ( talk • contribs) 16:33, 28 August 2006.
Did someone hear about a well guarded secret that China have undeniable proof that Mallory and Irvine summited, and that they, the chinese, are holding the information until Sir Hillary dies, afraid that the news will upset the old man too much?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:201.19.171.206
The second step before the summit on the Tibetan side is so difficult (about 5.8 American scale) that in the twenties that kind of rock was not climbed even in England or Alps. Thus it is unrealistic to think Irvin and Mallory could have climbed something like that at 8600 meters when they coud not do it even at sea level. The Chinese put up a ladder on that spot in early sixties and everybody has always used that. Exept Conrad Anker, who test climbed that section and became the only person so far to do it. (Petrus) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.65.255.1 ( talk • contribs) 16:38, 28 August 2006.
That Everest is neither the tallest mountain nor the highest elevated mountain right?
-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.117.157.66 ( talk • contribs) 17:47, September 12, 2006 (UTC)
Does the article Kangshung Face, Mount Everest need to be separate or should it be merged into the main Mount Everest article? If that article does stay separate, or if it becomes a section of this one, the NASA space photo above may be good for it. Comments? -- Spireguy 16:45, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
i think that maybe there could be a map of the mountain that shows where it is 70.190.180.166 00:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)#
Goodness gracious me. How can a Wikipedia administrator consider that Panorama from the top of Mt.Everest violates WP:EL? Also, summitpost and panorama links, which were also deleted, appear on many other mountain sites and have long been accepted by the Wikipedia community. The summitpost links provide much more information than the Wikipedia articles, and the panoramas provide unique information not available elsewhere. Admittedly the panoramas are mine and are on my site, but I did not add them originally and I really cannot see how they can be considered spam or contrary to WP:EL. Viewfinder 04:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Are miles and kilometers reserved for distance?
Despite referencing and footnoting, in the last 48 hours I reverted an unexplained change to 8844m and another to 8850m. I have explained on this page why the snow cap should be used (consistency with Mont Blanc) and why the snow cap elevation implied by the most recent survey (2005) should be used (which is 8848m). But whatever we do, we should not be changing the elevation frequently. If other editors disagree with the elevation currently supported then please could they debate the issue here first. Viewfinder 02:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The photo from the space station (image:himalaya_annotated.jpg) has some inaccurate captions, as noted on its discussion pages on Wikipedia and on the Commons. Not sure if the picture should be removed, as it is mostly OK. -- Spireguy 17:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Not for the first time, an administrator has been removing external links which do not contravene WP:EL. While some of the links removed may have been rightly removed, the links removed again included Panorama from the top of Mt.Everest, and the summitpost link. These and other links removed contain information not in the article, and should not have been removed without more explanation. In particular, some of the links were removed under a "rvv" edit. Yes the edit removed vandalism, but it removed much more, and should have stated so. Viewfinder 00:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I repeat, that some of these links may have been correctly removed. I am not defending all of them, but I do not think that there are necessarily too many. You will find just as many at George W. Bush, where you will also find a list of 129 references. Summitpost contains loads of information not in mountain articles. The panoramas.dk link is to an amazing 360 degree photograph of the view from the summit. This is relevant and, imo, of considerable interest and I vigorously oppose its removal. It is certainly not spam. Can you tell me which guideline clause its inclusion violates? I also oppose the removal of the computer generated annotated panoramas. Here I must declare an interest, in that I am the author of these panoramas, although I did not post the link to them myself. Similar computer generated panoramas appear on many mountain sites and have been generally accepted by the Wikipedia community for some time. Go to User_talk:Gillean666#Spam_reverting. (I have addressed the reasonable concern about commercial linkage).
The article was becoming too long, which is why, a few months ago, I set up a separate timeline climbing page.
I must also repeat my objection to the sneaky removal of external links in an edit entitled "rvv further more". Do you have any particular knowledge of mountains? I have not seen any contributions by you to mountain pages, other than occasional vandalism removal. If not, I suggest that you should have left a note on this discussion page about excess external links, but left it to those who do have knowledge of mountains to decide which ones, if any, should be removed. Viewfinder 11:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I suggest having only the following links:
Most of the links I would like to remove are either to web directories (that are not very helpful), planned expeditions (that do not give much further information), travel guides (do we really need that?) or picture collections (which there are hundreds of). One link does more good at the Bill Tilman article (and it has been added there by me), one link (naked man story) is better used by writing something in the article itself and linking to the news story as a ref, I've actually added one new link, the RGS page on Everest. I do like the panoramas and have nothing against keeping links to them, only bundling the two links together. Done the same with Google-related content. Comments? – Elisson • T • C • 22:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I objected to the action of deleting several external links in an edit entitled "rvv further more". I am sorry that the administrator responsible has taken that personally. I don't think that objecting to the action of an adminstrator violates WP:NPA. We are a democracy! I also think that it is unhelpful to describe the deleted external links as "gross violations of WP:EL", with no further explanation. I further note that my explained restoration edits appear to have been reverted without explanation by two administrators using the administrators' rollback facility. Surely that is intended for fighting abuse, not as a weapon in content disputes against good faith editors.
Anyway, following the helpful suggestions by Johan Elisson, I propose to edit the section in line with his suggestion. But I still think that two more links, which I have defended above, should be restored.
There are links to both the above sites on many Wikipedia mountain pages, where they have long been accepted. I do not think they come under any of the categories listed by Johan above. If any other editors oppose the restoration of these two links, then please could they explain their opposition here. Otherwise I will restore them. Viewfinder 00:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
My two cents: I agree that there were way too many external links, and that most of the removal was quite justifiable. However I also agree with Viewfinder that some of the removal would better have been done in the context of a discussion on the talk page. Personally, I find the guidelines at WP:EL not crystal-clear, and subject to differing interpretation by reasonable editors. So it does make sense to explain changes under that guideline, if asked to do so.
I think the status of the page right now is pretty good, including the Summitpost link and all of the panoramas. The links are all useful, and the number is not unreasonable at all (imo). -- Spireguy 04:02, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
The summitpost and panoramas issue is important because there are summitpost and panorama links attached to many mountain pages. We are a democracy and if most contributors think that they should go, then they should go. But I think that this is primarily a decision for those with a specific interest in mountains, rather than for sysops or even Jimbo Wales. The above edit implies that there should be no external links, that anyone wanting more info can type "Mount Everest" into Google. But that is not what WP:EL states, and if I do this I get mainly links in the categories listed by Johan Elisson. If something new and unique is created then it will not show up easily on Google, so the case of Wikipedia listing it may be good. The key questions should be: is it relevant, is it useful and is it worth the space it occupies? I think that the extent of the view from the top is worth four words, and contributors to User_talk:Gillean666#Spam_reverting seem to agree. Even better would be to create a panorama section, referencing the panoramas, but that would take up more space. Viewfinder 13:05, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I think that your question has been answered by Johan when he suggested four categories which should be excluded, and by my suggestion that new links should be useful, relevant and worth the space. I add a further suggestion - that we should not have links that duplicate each other. If someone provides a better annotated panorama then it should replace mine, not be listed alongside it. You mention a "multitude", but I know of no other panoramic websites, commercial or otherwise, which identify the features of view from the summit, and I know of no other 360 degree photographic summit panorama other that the one acquired by Roddy Mackenzie. Viewfinder 23:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I reverted the last two edits to remove the mention of Denali/McKinley as the "highest above base" in the world. This is an inherently ill-defined concept, but by any reasonable definition, McKinley doesn't win, as there are peaks in the Himalaya which achieve more vertical gain over any given horizonal distance than does McKinley. (This is not to say that McKinley isn't a very, very large peak, or that it doesn't beat Everest in some aspects of vertical relief.) Because it is a slippery notion, it's best not to talk about the comparison at all. (In fact, even the reference to Mauna Kea should probably be clarified a bit, by saying where the undersea "base" of that peak is, but I'm not going to do that now.) -- Spireguy 03:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, i just noticed vandalism on the page. I Dont know how to correct it, but can someone remove the offensive content near the top?
Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.252.118.102 ( talk) 23:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
So was it an 80% reduction or a 14% reduction? The new cite is inconsistent with the number in the text. Someone want to sort this out? -- Spireguy 22:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Picture taken by me at Buddha Air Everest tour.