This article is within the scope of WikiProject Motorcycling, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Motorcycling on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MotorcyclingWikipedia:WikiProject MotorcyclingTemplate:WikiProject MotorcyclingMotorcycling articles
Moto Guzzi V7/
Ambassador/
Eldorado/
850 Probably redirect all these to a single-page history of this series. Main articles on each one later, if desired.
Wire wheels:
Wire wheels#On motorcycles says only main article:
Motorcycle construction#Wheels, but that is not a main article, it is a subsection.
Bicycle wheel is a better article, but none of these 3 actually explains how spokes support the wheel pre-stressed w/compression.
"Types of handlebars" only lists specialized types
Currently, the article has these handlebar types listed:
Ape hangers
Beach bars
Clip-on
Cruiser
Drag bars
In which of those categories would the one-piece handlebars on the Ducati in the article, or any other standard motorcycle be? I don't think this list is exhaustive, or even covers the most common case. —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
204.112.152.144 (
talk)
01:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC).reply
I believe the posting on clip-on handlebars is factually incorrect. Clip-on handlebars have been used since the early 1950's on british racing motorcycles/cafe racers. As such, the invention of the clip-on handlebar cannot be attributed to Arlen Ness.
Dxps2615:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)reply
"I challenge you to show a source that says these two piece bars mounted above the top triple tree clamp as apposed (sic) to below are not." I don't disagree! Whilst clip-ons tended originally to be clamped to the stanchions (fork tubes) below the top triple-tree, it is not uncommon for manufacturers to fit them above (as on the new 2017 Ducati SuperSport). However, it is sometimes the case that such "upper clip-ons" are then bolted to the triple-tree, thus being effectively non-adjustable.
Arrivisto (
talk)
10:56, 30 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Let me clear up your confusion, that I am happy to do by the way for a fellow editor. Clip-on bars are simply the two piece bar itself, this constant is the defining crtiteria, not the mounts whether that mount be a clamp clamped to the forks, or attached into mounts cast into the outer edge of the top triple tree clamp. The latter is a example of the clip-ons on many bikes, such as for example the Hayabusa, ZX-12R, Buell 1125r, Buell XB12R Firebolt and many more. I have added this information to the article along with five different highly reliable sources to support this, there are many more but I felt this was more than sufficient. Also in the effort to clear up your confusion, the Hayabusa and other models such as the Katana in the article pic for ten years, the clip-ons are mounted in a one piece cast holder that does mount to the top triple tree, a design used to minimize vibration transferred to the rider. Also clip-ons on many bikes such as the ZX-14 have two separate mounts and mount above the top triple tree clamp, they simply slide over the fork tubes and bolt to the top triple tree clamp and do not clamp to the fork it self. I think you might be confusing this with the bar risers that mount a one piece handle bar, and there by in this confusion trying to use that criteria to exclude clip-ons that are attached to mounts cast into the top triple tree clamp or a one piece cast mounting point ontop. Also I think you might be confusing adjustability with being the defining factor in clip-ons. I would point out to you that one piece handle bars no matter there configuration are adjustable to a varying degree, this criteria does not make them clip-ons. Please in the future do not add or subtract information solely based on your own opinions, this is contrary to Wiki rules
WP:OR, of which you seem to keep repeating, this could be construed as disruptive editing
WP:DE. As well as the behavior of repeatedly reverting other editors, and in the process not citing any reliable source for your opinions.
72bikers (
talk)
19:03, 30 December 2016 (UTC)reply
There is no confusion; the meaning of the adjectival phrase "clip-on" is plain. In the 1950s, while BMW and the USA were producing police bikes and the Japanese were licking their post-war wounds, Britain was the world's leading manufacturer of quintessential motorbikes such as Triumph, Norton, BSA, Royal Enfield, Matchless, Brough and Vincent, to name but a few. It was the British who invented the café-racer, and it was the café-racer customisers who invented the clip-on. It may be that sixty years later USA motorcycle journalists have chosen to extend the meaning of "clip-on", but that's fine; language is a living thing. Being British, I speak and write the Queen's English. I know that while a "renegade" is a traitor who breaks his word, the manufacturer Jeep seems to think a "renegade" is a cool dude. I am familiar with litotes and the subjunctive mood. I know that words make more sense when spelt correctly and that sentences are better when they contain a verb and are properly punctuated. I know that to use "neo-Nazi" as an example of the prefix "neo-" imputes no hint of Nazism upon anyone. As a contributor to Wikipedia, I have enjoyed the collegiate friendship, knowledge and advice of other editors whom I deeply respect; but I'm damned if I'll (
Personal attack removed)
Arrivisto (
talk)
14:01, 31 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Once again, were I engaged In a civil conversation were I put forth
verifiable facts, your response is to refute these verifiable fact. With more stated opinions
WP:OR providing no supported evidence, unrelated ramblings and followed by
uncivil statements of
personal attacks, which are just examples of
WP:DE. None of those are examples of a civil intelligent discussion.
72bikers (
talk)
23:04, 31 December 2016 (UTC)reply
No editor should edit, delete nor un-delete another's talk-page posts. That function is the prerogative of Wikipedia administrators, to whom any initial complaint should be addressed.
Arrivisto (
talk)
13:38, 1 January 2017 (UTC)reply
You are mistaken again Wiki policies clearly state Derogatory comments about other editors may be removed by any editor. and The (
Personal attack removed) template can be used for this purpose. As the deleted derogatory comments were a clear-cut case of a egregious personal attack, my actions were clearly supported by
WP:RPA. As this once again is a case of verifiable fact over opinion (OR) that you always repudiate, please do take this to a
noticeboard for a admin decision. I will point out you will most likely be
blocked for your shameful derogatory comments.
Then they'd remove the chest-level handlebars and replace them with dropped bars (called clip-ons) that'd force the rider to lean into the bike. This statement is taken from a source that is referenced on the
Café racer article. This statement is about café racers in the UK in the 50's calling a one piece clubman bars clip-ons
[23].
72bikers (
talk)
21:02, 1 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Removing links to commercial sites
The "Reference" section includes links to two handlebar manufacturers. I can see no reason for WP to provide free advertising for them. Can anyone explain WP's rules for such things?
Bricology (
talk)
01:06, 9 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Editor
Arrivisto a definition search for the word yoke does not reveal this term is used for a specific motorcycle part. I am not saying this term is not used at all to refer to a motorcycle part. But this term does not even appear to be that commonly used in England in place of triple tree clamp. A search on UK ebay for yoke
[24] and a search for triple tree clamp there
[25]. The term yoke does seems to be used in Britain more for the steering stem of the tree rather than the triple tree clamp as a whole.
But all that notwithstanding, your argument appears only to be that England invented clip ons, there for their grammar should be used when referring to steering parts, I don't believe this holds water. -
72bikers (
talk)
18:01, 19 December 2017 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Motorcycling, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Motorcycling on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MotorcyclingWikipedia:WikiProject MotorcyclingTemplate:WikiProject MotorcyclingMotorcycling articles
Moto Guzzi V7/
Ambassador/
Eldorado/
850 Probably redirect all these to a single-page history of this series. Main articles on each one later, if desired.
Wire wheels:
Wire wheels#On motorcycles says only main article:
Motorcycle construction#Wheels, but that is not a main article, it is a subsection.
Bicycle wheel is a better article, but none of these 3 actually explains how spokes support the wheel pre-stressed w/compression.
"Types of handlebars" only lists specialized types
Currently, the article has these handlebar types listed:
Ape hangers
Beach bars
Clip-on
Cruiser
Drag bars
In which of those categories would the one-piece handlebars on the Ducati in the article, or any other standard motorcycle be? I don't think this list is exhaustive, or even covers the most common case. —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
204.112.152.144 (
talk)
01:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC).reply
I believe the posting on clip-on handlebars is factually incorrect. Clip-on handlebars have been used since the early 1950's on british racing motorcycles/cafe racers. As such, the invention of the clip-on handlebar cannot be attributed to Arlen Ness.
Dxps2615:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)reply
"I challenge you to show a source that says these two piece bars mounted above the top triple tree clamp as apposed (sic) to below are not." I don't disagree! Whilst clip-ons tended originally to be clamped to the stanchions (fork tubes) below the top triple-tree, it is not uncommon for manufacturers to fit them above (as on the new 2017 Ducati SuperSport). However, it is sometimes the case that such "upper clip-ons" are then bolted to the triple-tree, thus being effectively non-adjustable.
Arrivisto (
talk)
10:56, 30 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Let me clear up your confusion, that I am happy to do by the way for a fellow editor. Clip-on bars are simply the two piece bar itself, this constant is the defining crtiteria, not the mounts whether that mount be a clamp clamped to the forks, or attached into mounts cast into the outer edge of the top triple tree clamp. The latter is a example of the clip-ons on many bikes, such as for example the Hayabusa, ZX-12R, Buell 1125r, Buell XB12R Firebolt and many more. I have added this information to the article along with five different highly reliable sources to support this, there are many more but I felt this was more than sufficient. Also in the effort to clear up your confusion, the Hayabusa and other models such as the Katana in the article pic for ten years, the clip-ons are mounted in a one piece cast holder that does mount to the top triple tree, a design used to minimize vibration transferred to the rider. Also clip-ons on many bikes such as the ZX-14 have two separate mounts and mount above the top triple tree clamp, they simply slide over the fork tubes and bolt to the top triple tree clamp and do not clamp to the fork it self. I think you might be confusing this with the bar risers that mount a one piece handle bar, and there by in this confusion trying to use that criteria to exclude clip-ons that are attached to mounts cast into the top triple tree clamp or a one piece cast mounting point ontop. Also I think you might be confusing adjustability with being the defining factor in clip-ons. I would point out to you that one piece handle bars no matter there configuration are adjustable to a varying degree, this criteria does not make them clip-ons. Please in the future do not add or subtract information solely based on your own opinions, this is contrary to Wiki rules
WP:OR, of which you seem to keep repeating, this could be construed as disruptive editing
WP:DE. As well as the behavior of repeatedly reverting other editors, and in the process not citing any reliable source for your opinions.
72bikers (
talk)
19:03, 30 December 2016 (UTC)reply
There is no confusion; the meaning of the adjectival phrase "clip-on" is plain. In the 1950s, while BMW and the USA were producing police bikes and the Japanese were licking their post-war wounds, Britain was the world's leading manufacturer of quintessential motorbikes such as Triumph, Norton, BSA, Royal Enfield, Matchless, Brough and Vincent, to name but a few. It was the British who invented the café-racer, and it was the café-racer customisers who invented the clip-on. It may be that sixty years later USA motorcycle journalists have chosen to extend the meaning of "clip-on", but that's fine; language is a living thing. Being British, I speak and write the Queen's English. I know that while a "renegade" is a traitor who breaks his word, the manufacturer Jeep seems to think a "renegade" is a cool dude. I am familiar with litotes and the subjunctive mood. I know that words make more sense when spelt correctly and that sentences are better when they contain a verb and are properly punctuated. I know that to use "neo-Nazi" as an example of the prefix "neo-" imputes no hint of Nazism upon anyone. As a contributor to Wikipedia, I have enjoyed the collegiate friendship, knowledge and advice of other editors whom I deeply respect; but I'm damned if I'll (
Personal attack removed)
Arrivisto (
talk)
14:01, 31 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Once again, were I engaged In a civil conversation were I put forth
verifiable facts, your response is to refute these verifiable fact. With more stated opinions
WP:OR providing no supported evidence, unrelated ramblings and followed by
uncivil statements of
personal attacks, which are just examples of
WP:DE. None of those are examples of a civil intelligent discussion.
72bikers (
talk)
23:04, 31 December 2016 (UTC)reply
No editor should edit, delete nor un-delete another's talk-page posts. That function is the prerogative of Wikipedia administrators, to whom any initial complaint should be addressed.
Arrivisto (
talk)
13:38, 1 January 2017 (UTC)reply
You are mistaken again Wiki policies clearly state Derogatory comments about other editors may be removed by any editor. and The (
Personal attack removed) template can be used for this purpose. As the deleted derogatory comments were a clear-cut case of a egregious personal attack, my actions were clearly supported by
WP:RPA. As this once again is a case of verifiable fact over opinion (OR) that you always repudiate, please do take this to a
noticeboard for a admin decision. I will point out you will most likely be
blocked for your shameful derogatory comments.
Then they'd remove the chest-level handlebars and replace them with dropped bars (called clip-ons) that'd force the rider to lean into the bike. This statement is taken from a source that is referenced on the
Café racer article. This statement is about café racers in the UK in the 50's calling a one piece clubman bars clip-ons
[23].
72bikers (
talk)
21:02, 1 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Removing links to commercial sites
The "Reference" section includes links to two handlebar manufacturers. I can see no reason for WP to provide free advertising for them. Can anyone explain WP's rules for such things?
Bricology (
talk)
01:06, 9 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Editor
Arrivisto a definition search for the word yoke does not reveal this term is used for a specific motorcycle part. I am not saying this term is not used at all to refer to a motorcycle part. But this term does not even appear to be that commonly used in England in place of triple tree clamp. A search on UK ebay for yoke
[24] and a search for triple tree clamp there
[25]. The term yoke does seems to be used in Britain more for the steering stem of the tree rather than the triple tree clamp as a whole.
But all that notwithstanding, your argument appears only to be that England invented clip ons, there for their grammar should be used when referring to steering parts, I don't believe this holds water. -
72bikers (
talk)
18:01, 19 December 2017 (UTC)reply