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Motorcycle club article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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![]() | Motorcycle club was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
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Current status: Former good article nominee |
We just failed a Good Article nomination, so more needs to be done before we can renominate.
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Just a question, If hells angels bars hispanics,who makes up the membership in HA chapters in Latin America? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.49.44 ( talk)
There are many different races and creeds of men throughout many of the worldwide chapters Yes, any race is permitted and accepted by the hells angels. They do not discriminate against skin color. Any man who wishes to become a member must go through the process and complete the program. Novaastarr ( talk) 10:52, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
The term "MC" is rather loaded -- it can imply a 1% club, but this article is supposed to be about all motorcycle clubs, organizations, groups or whatever you call them. It includes brand owners clubs. Patriot Guard Riders is unquestionably a motorcycle oriented group, even if a bike isn't a membership requirement. Lots of brand fan clubs allow anyone to join too, whether they have a bike or not. And PGR has a discrete membership roster, and the main thing they do is ride, specifically at funerals and other occasions. So of course they should be mentioned in this article.
What would help a lot if is if this article wasn't so focued on outlaw clubs, making it seem like that is what this page is about. Removing PGR makes that worse, in fact.-- Dbratland ( talk) 03:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
What would help is getting it right. The PGR is not a club, its just not,,,,-- Softail99fb ( talk) 01:21, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
There are lots of motorcycle-related clubs (or organizations or groups or whatever you like to call them) whose primary interests or activities involve motorcycles, but who do not strictly require that you ride. If these organizations aren't a kind of motorcycle club, what are they? Gardening clubs? You can be a boy scout without going camping. You can join an avaiation club without flying an airplane. The point is that the Patriot Guard Riders primarily participate in rides on motorcycles to provide their funeral escorts. It's not like a couple guys in the group happen to ride -- it is central to what they do. They began by using the noise of their motorcycle engines to drown out the protesters from Fred Phelp's church. To this day they primarily do their work on motorcycles.-- Dbratland ( talk) 23:56, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
To be a part of a motorcycle club you have to earn that right. To be a patch wearer you have to earn it. You are called a prospect while you earn the right to wear the back patch. A group of motorcycle riders that are organized for honoring or just out for fun is not a club. Do not mix the two up the MC’s don’t take very kindly to it! -- Softail99fb ( talk) 01:17, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Who cares? A club is a group is an organization. It's pedantic hair splitting.
Yes, I'm well aware that certain "outlaw" clubs think they own the words "motorcycle club". But they don't.-- Dbratland ( talk) 23:56, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:"In popular culture" articles. I would reason that the most important cultural references already have articles, such as The Wild One and links to those articles are more than sufficient. The rest needs to go.-- Dbratland ( talk) 16:31, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
The most notable parts of the IPC section are actually redundant. The Wild One is already mentioned earlier in the article. Easy Rider has nothing to do with motorcycle clubs of any kind. It's two guys who ride motorcycles, and there isn't so much as a hint that they are members of any type of MC.
The more relevant Discovery Channel documentaries are cited in this article or in related articles. Same with Hunter S Thompson's books and Sonny Barger's and so on. What kind of circular logic cites a book or documentary in the article, then makes same source into the subject of the "In Popular Culture" section?
The rest of it is a list of trivia that grows longer by the day.
Wikipedia:"In popular culture" articles gives good reasons why keeping this material is not constructive Alternatively, as WP:IPC suggests a separate article Motorcycle clubs in popular culture should be created to help maintain the quality of Motorcycle club. -- Dbratland ( talk) 21:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to rearrange the structure of this article. The problem is the article gives too mucy weight to outlaw and criminal clubs, and barely mentions other types of clubs. I think “Biker” clubs and "Colors" belong at the same section level as One Percenters and Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs, and there should be another section (currently named Objectives and organization) devoted to a broader description of all types of clubs. The article can later on be balanced by expanding the material on non-outlaw clubs, and by moving some of the lenghthy details about things like the origin of 1%er etc into separate articles. I'll give some thought to how to approach it and probably put up a workpage.
Along the way, I'll add citations where possible and delete whatever I can't find sources to support.--
Dbratland (
talk)
21:46, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
The information calling us a Club is not correct. You have no idea how damaging this is by calling us a club. MC's earn their patch, that makes it a club. Organizations like the Patriot Guard Riders buy their patch. Please, Please do not call us a club this only causes problems for us with the MC's. Please let the changes be made, take us out of the club explination. Go to our web site and email our national leaders. We, are not a club please understand this information is damaging. If you really new the difference you wouldn't have said this about us. Thank you, Carl. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Softail99fb ( talk • contribs) 10:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I forgot to mention this, notice our web site does not say MC after our name, that is what I wanted you to see on our web site. If you truly understood what a MC is you would have known that, any MC memeber or anyone that knows would have known this. Thank you for understanding, I can't express enough how important it is we are not represented as a MC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Softail99fb ( talk • contribs) 19:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
How about sticking to the fact, the PGR is not a club. If you new the difference you would not hesitate to understand. A club member has to prospect to earn their patch taking up to 3 years to earn it instead of buying it off of a web page like we do ours. We are not a club. It has to be corrected, if you only understood, if you only understood! I can not express this issue any better than this, we, the Patriot Guard Riders are not a Motorcycle club. If this wikipedia uses facts, then get this fact straight. I am a Patriot Guard Rider, I am not a club memeber because we are not a club. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Softail99fb ( talk • contribs) 23:06, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
This is taken from our forums, I'm going out on a limb but you all need to read this. I will try find where to make a signature. This will be my last post on this subject. Read this and read it for what it is! You guys are wrong!
20 Mar 2007 11:42 PM Alert With the back patch. email your state captain to see if it approved for your state. The small patch on the front is OK
This is from the PGR FAQ PGR BACK PATCH
The PGR is NOT a Motorcycle or Riding Club. This back patch is not representative of, nor is it an indication that PGR is a Motorcycle or Riding Club. We do not earn this patch but purchase it from our store. Back patches representing M/C’s or R/C’s are earned by their members during the year or two in which they “prospect” or serve as a prospective member. They work hard to earn the right to wear the patch.
If you choose to purchase or wear the back patch please check with your state captain to make sure that he/she has contacted the COC in your state for approval of the patch BEFORE you purchase the patch. COC in some states are recommending that the back patch not be worn due to safety concerns for our members. Trust in their judgment, they are more aware of the attitudes of the individual M/C’s than we are. WARNING: if you are asked to remove the garment on which you are wearing the patch, please do so immediately, and without contention, for your personal safety.
For more information regarding the 1%’ers, M/C’s, R/C’s and their traditions and policies please go to M/C educational information -- Softail99fb ( talk) 00:53, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Why should Wikipedia care, are you kidding? I used to read Wikipedia for the truth. Now after this I'm not to sure if I can believe what I read on Wikipedia.
When you use the word motorcycle and club in the same sentence it means a whole lot more than two or more people united by a common interest or goal.
Once again I thank you for keeping us out of the list of Clubs and ask that you never list us that way again. I hope you do see it how it is, and keep us from looking like something we are not. We are not and will never be a Motorcycle club. -- Softail99fb ( talk) 02:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Guys, I think I understand what Softail99fb is trying to say, and I think I found the argumet he is missing, after reading the Patriot Guard Riders article. It's in the first paragraph of the Origin section: "Because they were rather small in comparison to many of the Veterans organizations across the country they invited anyone and everyone they could think of, these included members of the VFW, American Legion, Leathernecks MC, Vietnam Vet MC and anyone who wanted to ride with them were invited to come along."The point is: you can be a member of the Patriot Guard Riders and, AT THE SAME TIME, be a member of a Motorcycle Club. If PGR were a Motorcycle Club, this would not be possible, since no MC would accept a member already belonging to another MC. I'm not sure how many of you editors are familiar with the MC culture, but it would be like playing in two different soccer teams at the same time: unacceptable. Therefore, I believe this is enough to remove PGR from the MC lists. -- Sudias Hi! 18:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sudias ( talk • contribs)
I stayed a way hoping all understood. After posting our back patch rules I was sure all would understand we are not and never will be a MC. Using the word MC means more than just picking nits over words in this forum. Calling a Motorcycle Organization a MC In the motorcycle world is not just words. I have a friend at this time prospecting for his colors. He can tell you the difference between us and a MC!!!! Sadius thank you for understanding. I didn't know how to reply to you so I had to post here again.-- Softail99fb ( talk) 23:20, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
I’ve been following this and felt it was time to respond, so I joined just now so I could respond properly.
Being a part of an Organization that wears a large back patch we too as the PGR needed to be approved by the COC to wear it. This permission was so there was not a miss understanding between us being an MC or a RC as well as the PGR, we are an Organization of motorcycle riding members, not a club just like the PGR. This organization I'm with was newly founded in 2008. I will not say who we are because I too wish not to be represented as a Club. We do fund raisers for helping charities and are all over the United States. Our large back patch has been approved by the COC in some states with the understanding we do not call our selves a Club, just like the PGR. What part of the PGR not bing a club can't some of you understand. A PGR member is trying to explain this to you and you can't see it. I respect the PGR for what they do and thank softail for his participation and back him up 100% that is the only reason I'm posting this. The PGR is not a club and you owe them the respect to represent them proper. -- Hogstock ( talk) 13:54, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Could those of you posting from US riders' groups please remember that your viewpoint only reflects your own society. In most of Europe, back patch clubs do not object to the term MotorCycle Club being used to denote a group of like-minded sociable friends. The only marks of respect required in naming terms are that no club name should be similar to, or liable to confusion with, the name of a back patch club and that the abbreviation MCC is used, rather than MC.
The issue of Colours aligns very much with your own experience and although certain groups may wear a large single-piece badge, all two- and three-piece Colours are earned by the same level of commitment noted in your comments above.
Posted from work by User:DavidFRAS 217.34.41.57 ( talk) 11:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Section was removed without discussion. Is that good or bad? Proxy User ( talk) 02:51, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
I haven't heard a whole lot of feedback on the proposed revisions in these two workpages:
Please get in there and make any changes in these you think are important, or speak up if you don't want to see Motorcycle club split apart with the outlaw stuff moved to Outlaw motorcycle club (currently it redirects). It would be so much easier if anyone wanted to complain to do it now rather than later. Thanks!-- Dbratland ( talk) 05:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Talk:Motorcycle_club/workpage#Rev._2_-_Colors_and.2For_Insignia
Colors and/or Insignia section was pulled for “very poor sources” but this is not my gripe. My problem is the lack of uniformity. Outlaw_motorcycle_club#Colors retains this section without any sources in the first paragraph. However, this section is handles correctly by adding the
![]() | This section possibly contains
original research. (August 2009) |
notation. I hate the 1% groups but I would never dream of violating their rights by pulling an entire section, bad police agencies do this. I'm open for distributions on this section
Phoenician Patriot ( talk) 13:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
|thumb|upright|
because vertical pictures usually come out too large if you only use |thumb|
. --
Dbratland (
talk)
17:52, 11 October 2009 (UTC)One of the directors of Patriot Guard Riders is making changes to the article. I have requested that he engage at Talk:Patriot_Guard_Riders#Motorcycle_club_revisited, where I have pointed to the discussions that have already taken place on this page in 2009. -- Biker Biker ( talk) 14:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
.....additional citations needed, I think it's pretty well cited by now. -- Bddmagic ( talk) 17:02, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
This article does not address the obvious negative perception that biker clubs have. I believe it is deserved but that is just a belief. Without addressing the issue this article is pure PR. 75.173.11.122 ( talk) 21:10, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Motorcycle club article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2 |
![]() | Motorcycle club was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former good article nominee |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
We just failed a Good Article nomination, so more needs to be done before we can renominate.
Wikify
References
Expand
Cleanup
|
Just a question, If hells angels bars hispanics,who makes up the membership in HA chapters in Latin America? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.49.44 ( talk)
There are many different races and creeds of men throughout many of the worldwide chapters Yes, any race is permitted and accepted by the hells angels. They do not discriminate against skin color. Any man who wishes to become a member must go through the process and complete the program. Novaastarr ( talk) 10:52, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
The term "MC" is rather loaded -- it can imply a 1% club, but this article is supposed to be about all motorcycle clubs, organizations, groups or whatever you call them. It includes brand owners clubs. Patriot Guard Riders is unquestionably a motorcycle oriented group, even if a bike isn't a membership requirement. Lots of brand fan clubs allow anyone to join too, whether they have a bike or not. And PGR has a discrete membership roster, and the main thing they do is ride, specifically at funerals and other occasions. So of course they should be mentioned in this article.
What would help a lot if is if this article wasn't so focued on outlaw clubs, making it seem like that is what this page is about. Removing PGR makes that worse, in fact.-- Dbratland ( talk) 03:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
What would help is getting it right. The PGR is not a club, its just not,,,,-- Softail99fb ( talk) 01:21, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
There are lots of motorcycle-related clubs (or organizations or groups or whatever you like to call them) whose primary interests or activities involve motorcycles, but who do not strictly require that you ride. If these organizations aren't a kind of motorcycle club, what are they? Gardening clubs? You can be a boy scout without going camping. You can join an avaiation club without flying an airplane. The point is that the Patriot Guard Riders primarily participate in rides on motorcycles to provide their funeral escorts. It's not like a couple guys in the group happen to ride -- it is central to what they do. They began by using the noise of their motorcycle engines to drown out the protesters from Fred Phelp's church. To this day they primarily do their work on motorcycles.-- Dbratland ( talk) 23:56, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
To be a part of a motorcycle club you have to earn that right. To be a patch wearer you have to earn it. You are called a prospect while you earn the right to wear the back patch. A group of motorcycle riders that are organized for honoring or just out for fun is not a club. Do not mix the two up the MC’s don’t take very kindly to it! -- Softail99fb ( talk) 01:17, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Who cares? A club is a group is an organization. It's pedantic hair splitting.
Yes, I'm well aware that certain "outlaw" clubs think they own the words "motorcycle club". But they don't.-- Dbratland ( talk) 23:56, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:"In popular culture" articles. I would reason that the most important cultural references already have articles, such as The Wild One and links to those articles are more than sufficient. The rest needs to go.-- Dbratland ( talk) 16:31, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
The most notable parts of the IPC section are actually redundant. The Wild One is already mentioned earlier in the article. Easy Rider has nothing to do with motorcycle clubs of any kind. It's two guys who ride motorcycles, and there isn't so much as a hint that they are members of any type of MC.
The more relevant Discovery Channel documentaries are cited in this article or in related articles. Same with Hunter S Thompson's books and Sonny Barger's and so on. What kind of circular logic cites a book or documentary in the article, then makes same source into the subject of the "In Popular Culture" section?
The rest of it is a list of trivia that grows longer by the day.
Wikipedia:"In popular culture" articles gives good reasons why keeping this material is not constructive Alternatively, as WP:IPC suggests a separate article Motorcycle clubs in popular culture should be created to help maintain the quality of Motorcycle club. -- Dbratland ( talk) 21:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to rearrange the structure of this article. The problem is the article gives too mucy weight to outlaw and criminal clubs, and barely mentions other types of clubs. I think “Biker” clubs and "Colors" belong at the same section level as One Percenters and Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs, and there should be another section (currently named Objectives and organization) devoted to a broader description of all types of clubs. The article can later on be balanced by expanding the material on non-outlaw clubs, and by moving some of the lenghthy details about things like the origin of 1%er etc into separate articles. I'll give some thought to how to approach it and probably put up a workpage.
Along the way, I'll add citations where possible and delete whatever I can't find sources to support.--
Dbratland (
talk)
21:46, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
The information calling us a Club is not correct. You have no idea how damaging this is by calling us a club. MC's earn their patch, that makes it a club. Organizations like the Patriot Guard Riders buy their patch. Please, Please do not call us a club this only causes problems for us with the MC's. Please let the changes be made, take us out of the club explination. Go to our web site and email our national leaders. We, are not a club please understand this information is damaging. If you really new the difference you wouldn't have said this about us. Thank you, Carl. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Softail99fb ( talk • contribs) 10:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I forgot to mention this, notice our web site does not say MC after our name, that is what I wanted you to see on our web site. If you truly understood what a MC is you would have known that, any MC memeber or anyone that knows would have known this. Thank you for understanding, I can't express enough how important it is we are not represented as a MC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Softail99fb ( talk • contribs) 19:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
How about sticking to the fact, the PGR is not a club. If you new the difference you would not hesitate to understand. A club member has to prospect to earn their patch taking up to 3 years to earn it instead of buying it off of a web page like we do ours. We are not a club. It has to be corrected, if you only understood, if you only understood! I can not express this issue any better than this, we, the Patriot Guard Riders are not a Motorcycle club. If this wikipedia uses facts, then get this fact straight. I am a Patriot Guard Rider, I am not a club memeber because we are not a club. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Softail99fb ( talk • contribs) 23:06, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
This is taken from our forums, I'm going out on a limb but you all need to read this. I will try find where to make a signature. This will be my last post on this subject. Read this and read it for what it is! You guys are wrong!
20 Mar 2007 11:42 PM Alert With the back patch. email your state captain to see if it approved for your state. The small patch on the front is OK
This is from the PGR FAQ PGR BACK PATCH
The PGR is NOT a Motorcycle or Riding Club. This back patch is not representative of, nor is it an indication that PGR is a Motorcycle or Riding Club. We do not earn this patch but purchase it from our store. Back patches representing M/C’s or R/C’s are earned by their members during the year or two in which they “prospect” or serve as a prospective member. They work hard to earn the right to wear the patch.
If you choose to purchase or wear the back patch please check with your state captain to make sure that he/she has contacted the COC in your state for approval of the patch BEFORE you purchase the patch. COC in some states are recommending that the back patch not be worn due to safety concerns for our members. Trust in their judgment, they are more aware of the attitudes of the individual M/C’s than we are. WARNING: if you are asked to remove the garment on which you are wearing the patch, please do so immediately, and without contention, for your personal safety.
For more information regarding the 1%’ers, M/C’s, R/C’s and their traditions and policies please go to M/C educational information -- Softail99fb ( talk) 00:53, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Why should Wikipedia care, are you kidding? I used to read Wikipedia for the truth. Now after this I'm not to sure if I can believe what I read on Wikipedia.
When you use the word motorcycle and club in the same sentence it means a whole lot more than two or more people united by a common interest or goal.
Once again I thank you for keeping us out of the list of Clubs and ask that you never list us that way again. I hope you do see it how it is, and keep us from looking like something we are not. We are not and will never be a Motorcycle club. -- Softail99fb ( talk) 02:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Guys, I think I understand what Softail99fb is trying to say, and I think I found the argumet he is missing, after reading the Patriot Guard Riders article. It's in the first paragraph of the Origin section: "Because they were rather small in comparison to many of the Veterans organizations across the country they invited anyone and everyone they could think of, these included members of the VFW, American Legion, Leathernecks MC, Vietnam Vet MC and anyone who wanted to ride with them were invited to come along."The point is: you can be a member of the Patriot Guard Riders and, AT THE SAME TIME, be a member of a Motorcycle Club. If PGR were a Motorcycle Club, this would not be possible, since no MC would accept a member already belonging to another MC. I'm not sure how many of you editors are familiar with the MC culture, but it would be like playing in two different soccer teams at the same time: unacceptable. Therefore, I believe this is enough to remove PGR from the MC lists. -- Sudias Hi! 18:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sudias ( talk • contribs)
I stayed a way hoping all understood. After posting our back patch rules I was sure all would understand we are not and never will be a MC. Using the word MC means more than just picking nits over words in this forum. Calling a Motorcycle Organization a MC In the motorcycle world is not just words. I have a friend at this time prospecting for his colors. He can tell you the difference between us and a MC!!!! Sadius thank you for understanding. I didn't know how to reply to you so I had to post here again.-- Softail99fb ( talk) 23:20, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
I’ve been following this and felt it was time to respond, so I joined just now so I could respond properly.
Being a part of an Organization that wears a large back patch we too as the PGR needed to be approved by the COC to wear it. This permission was so there was not a miss understanding between us being an MC or a RC as well as the PGR, we are an Organization of motorcycle riding members, not a club just like the PGR. This organization I'm with was newly founded in 2008. I will not say who we are because I too wish not to be represented as a Club. We do fund raisers for helping charities and are all over the United States. Our large back patch has been approved by the COC in some states with the understanding we do not call our selves a Club, just like the PGR. What part of the PGR not bing a club can't some of you understand. A PGR member is trying to explain this to you and you can't see it. I respect the PGR for what they do and thank softail for his participation and back him up 100% that is the only reason I'm posting this. The PGR is not a club and you owe them the respect to represent them proper. -- Hogstock ( talk) 13:54, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Could those of you posting from US riders' groups please remember that your viewpoint only reflects your own society. In most of Europe, back patch clubs do not object to the term MotorCycle Club being used to denote a group of like-minded sociable friends. The only marks of respect required in naming terms are that no club name should be similar to, or liable to confusion with, the name of a back patch club and that the abbreviation MCC is used, rather than MC.
The issue of Colours aligns very much with your own experience and although certain groups may wear a large single-piece badge, all two- and three-piece Colours are earned by the same level of commitment noted in your comments above.
Posted from work by User:DavidFRAS 217.34.41.57 ( talk) 11:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Section was removed without discussion. Is that good or bad? Proxy User ( talk) 02:51, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
I haven't heard a whole lot of feedback on the proposed revisions in these two workpages:
Please get in there and make any changes in these you think are important, or speak up if you don't want to see Motorcycle club split apart with the outlaw stuff moved to Outlaw motorcycle club (currently it redirects). It would be so much easier if anyone wanted to complain to do it now rather than later. Thanks!-- Dbratland ( talk) 05:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Talk:Motorcycle_club/workpage#Rev._2_-_Colors_and.2For_Insignia
Colors and/or Insignia section was pulled for “very poor sources” but this is not my gripe. My problem is the lack of uniformity. Outlaw_motorcycle_club#Colors retains this section without any sources in the first paragraph. However, this section is handles correctly by adding the
![]() | This section possibly contains
original research. (August 2009) |
notation. I hate the 1% groups but I would never dream of violating their rights by pulling an entire section, bad police agencies do this. I'm open for distributions on this section
Phoenician Patriot ( talk) 13:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
|thumb|upright|
because vertical pictures usually come out too large if you only use |thumb|
. --
Dbratland (
talk)
17:52, 11 October 2009 (UTC)One of the directors of Patriot Guard Riders is making changes to the article. I have requested that he engage at Talk:Patriot_Guard_Riders#Motorcycle_club_revisited, where I have pointed to the discussions that have already taken place on this page in 2009. -- Biker Biker ( talk) 14:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
.....additional citations needed, I think it's pretty well cited by now. -- Bddmagic ( talk) 17:02, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
This article does not address the obvious negative perception that biker clubs have. I believe it is deserved but that is just a belief. Without addressing the issue this article is pure PR. 75.173.11.122 ( talk) 21:10, 24 December 2016 (UTC)