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For a competing and better sourced claimant to be the first Native American baseball player, see
Louis Sockalexis, who played for Cleveland from 1897 to 1899.
Ruhrfisch><>°° 01:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
From my understanding, and based on the sources I provided here, Sockalexis was not a full-blooded native American. Keep in mind, this does not claim that he was the first person of Native American decent to play, just that he was the first full-blooded one. //
Tecmobowl 03:20, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Thanks, I had missed the distinction of full-blooded or not. Congrats on the DYK,
Ruhrfisch><>°° 03:29, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Again, this is ONLY based on what I've found. Growing up, I was under the impression that Chief Yellow Horse was the first full-blooded. It is entirely possible that this is not the case. There is no doubt he was not the first with Native American blood. Perhaps, we should mention this in the article? //
Tecmobowl 03:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
The sources cited certainly back up the article, though I would cite the second ref (biography) as well as the first ref (photo advertisement) for the first full-blooded Native American baseball player claim, as the first ref alone might be seen as having
WP:RS issues. As for other previous players, it is probably worth adding a sentence or two about them in the body of the article. The second ref says "YellowHorse is considered by many to have been the first full-blooded American Indian to have played in the major leagues. Other Native Americans who played major league baseball such as Charles Albert (Chief) Bender, John (Chief) Meyers, and Lou Sockalexis were not believed to have been full-blooded natives." so some sort of brief paraphrase / similar statement would work. Hope this helps and keep up the good work,
Ruhrfisch><>°° 12:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Yeah, i try to avoid using references that don't meet
WP:RS. The sources in the article appear to be reliable. That being said, I don't have a problem with expanding on this comment. Perhaps the best way would be to find some contradictory information and present both sides. how about something like:
At this time, there is some debate as to whether or not Chief Yellow Horse was the first full-blooded Native American to play Major League baseball. A number of sources have claimed that he is (insert ref); while other sources have stated that ______ (ref), ____ (ref), or ____ (ref) was the first.
That's a spur of the moment proposal, but do you think we're headed in the right direction? //
Tecmobowl 18:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Congrats on the DYK! Your proposed text sounds fine to me - in that era, I think they tended to see anyone with any substantial minority ancestry as belonging to that minority (so they didn't always distinguish between "full blooded" and mixed ancestry). That plus the tendency of those who were able to to try and pass as non-minorities means we will likely never know who was first. Still, Wikipedia is based on what is verifiable and I think you've done a fine job demonstrating that there are reliable sources who verifiably say Chief Yellow Horse was the first full blooded Native American to play baseball. One last minor point, the Bio source says his name was "Mose" (no second "s"), not "Moses", though all the other sources seem to call him "Moses". Probably also worth a mention of the alternate first name version. Take care,
Ruhrfisch><>°° 15:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Well thanks much for your kind words. Tell you what, i think the point of wiki is to make the enteries better through group collaboration, do you want to take this one and do some editing? I'm really thinking either of our proposals is more than acceptable. It would be good to get at least another editor involved! Let me know and this was SOO COOL! :-) //
Tecmobowl 23:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)reply
I have also enjoyed this collaboration and made some copyedits to the article - feel free to edit / revert.
Ruhrfisch><>°° 01:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Sweet! Nice job! I'd give you a star if i could :-) //
Tecmobowl 01:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Thanks! That's what we're here for, to make a better encyclopedia one edit at a time, 01:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)!
Tecmo Banned Indefinitely. FYI--Tecmo has been banned indefinitely for repeated violations of Wiki policy.--
Epeefleche 01:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
baseball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Native Americans,
Indigenous peoples in Canada, and related
indigenous peoples of North America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Indigenous peoples of North AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaIndigenous peoples of North America articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Oklahoma, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
U.S. state of Oklahoma on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OklahomaWikipedia:WikiProject OklahomaTemplate:WikiProject OklahomaOklahoma articles
For a competing and better sourced claimant to be the first Native American baseball player, see
Louis Sockalexis, who played for Cleveland from 1897 to 1899.
Ruhrfisch><>°° 01:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
From my understanding, and based on the sources I provided here, Sockalexis was not a full-blooded native American. Keep in mind, this does not claim that he was the first person of Native American decent to play, just that he was the first full-blooded one. //
Tecmobowl 03:20, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Thanks, I had missed the distinction of full-blooded or not. Congrats on the DYK,
Ruhrfisch><>°° 03:29, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Again, this is ONLY based on what I've found. Growing up, I was under the impression that Chief Yellow Horse was the first full-blooded. It is entirely possible that this is not the case. There is no doubt he was not the first with Native American blood. Perhaps, we should mention this in the article? //
Tecmobowl 03:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
The sources cited certainly back up the article, though I would cite the second ref (biography) as well as the first ref (photo advertisement) for the first full-blooded Native American baseball player claim, as the first ref alone might be seen as having
WP:RS issues. As for other previous players, it is probably worth adding a sentence or two about them in the body of the article. The second ref says "YellowHorse is considered by many to have been the first full-blooded American Indian to have played in the major leagues. Other Native Americans who played major league baseball such as Charles Albert (Chief) Bender, John (Chief) Meyers, and Lou Sockalexis were not believed to have been full-blooded natives." so some sort of brief paraphrase / similar statement would work. Hope this helps and keep up the good work,
Ruhrfisch><>°° 12:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Yeah, i try to avoid using references that don't meet
WP:RS. The sources in the article appear to be reliable. That being said, I don't have a problem with expanding on this comment. Perhaps the best way would be to find some contradictory information and present both sides. how about something like:
At this time, there is some debate as to whether or not Chief Yellow Horse was the first full-blooded Native American to play Major League baseball. A number of sources have claimed that he is (insert ref); while other sources have stated that ______ (ref), ____ (ref), or ____ (ref) was the first.
That's a spur of the moment proposal, but do you think we're headed in the right direction? //
Tecmobowl 18:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Congrats on the DYK! Your proposed text sounds fine to me - in that era, I think they tended to see anyone with any substantial minority ancestry as belonging to that minority (so they didn't always distinguish between "full blooded" and mixed ancestry). That plus the tendency of those who were able to to try and pass as non-minorities means we will likely never know who was first. Still, Wikipedia is based on what is verifiable and I think you've done a fine job demonstrating that there are reliable sources who verifiably say Chief Yellow Horse was the first full blooded Native American to play baseball. One last minor point, the Bio source says his name was "Mose" (no second "s"), not "Moses", though all the other sources seem to call him "Moses". Probably also worth a mention of the alternate first name version. Take care,
Ruhrfisch><>°° 15:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Well thanks much for your kind words. Tell you what, i think the point of wiki is to make the enteries better through group collaboration, do you want to take this one and do some editing? I'm really thinking either of our proposals is more than acceptable. It would be good to get at least another editor involved! Let me know and this was SOO COOL! :-) //
Tecmobowl 23:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)reply
I have also enjoyed this collaboration and made some copyedits to the article - feel free to edit / revert.
Ruhrfisch><>°° 01:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Sweet! Nice job! I'd give you a star if i could :-) //
Tecmobowl 01:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Thanks! That's what we're here for, to make a better encyclopedia one edit at a time, 01:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)!
Tecmo Banned Indefinitely. FYI--Tecmo has been banned indefinitely for repeated violations of Wiki policy.--
Epeefleche 01:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)reply