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This should be the United Stated and not the Utah Territory. As started invmy first edit "fix infobox. Added units(USMS and terrtoial milita), this was USA VS morrisite (this is because USMS where used)" I do not know why the edits where reverted, if @
The Banner could clarify.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
14:51, 5 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Nice, but both of these sources do not support your claims.
The first source states "Robert T. Burton, deputy marshal" but leaves it unclear if he was a local/state/US marshal.
The second source is even worse. It is a listing of autobiographies with a summery. The second one states: He participated in resisting the U.S. Army during the Utah War, mentions the Morrisite War, (...) No evidence he participated in the Morrisite War. Just mentioning that war does not prove that he participated. The Bannertalk20:17, 5 December 2023 (UTC)reply
local/state marshals do not exist in the US. Also the article mentions he is a US Marshall. If you want to be sure, you should read all the references for the article.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
02:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)reply
That "source" is just one passing mention of him being a "deputy marshal" acting on behalves of the territorial chief. Still n0o evidence of the central government being involved. And regarding your question about confederate or union: what do the sources say? The Bannertalk00:01, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
You are right Robert Burton was not a Deputy U.S. Marshal, he was an Utah Marshal. However Judson was a Deputy United States Marshal, as found in the source “On May 24, 1862, Deputy United States Marshal Judson Stoddard obtained a writ of habeas corpus from Territorial Chief Justice John J. Kinney. He proceeded to Kingston Fort where he was allowed to read the writ to Morris, Banks, and Klemgard. These men were not willing to receive the document, however, and let it fall to the ground in their midst.”
Also my question was not confederate or union, it was Union or United States. As it was during the civil war I do not know what one to uses.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
02:36, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Picture
I found a picture that I think we can uses. It shows the Utah Territorial Militia attacking the fort. However the picture is called "massacre of the Morrisite" that did not happen, it also shows US forces attacking civilians, while civilians died they where not killed by US forces in a massacre. Should we still uses it?
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
15:02, 13 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Yes, sorry I forgot to
link it. I just don't know if we should use it because it is not the most historically accurate photo, but then there where 4 civilians to die in the conflict.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
14:23, 15 December 2023 (UTC)reply
I asked the same question on Wikimedia Commons and they uploaded it. The question is should we uses it? I just don't know if we should use it because it is not the most historically accurate photo, but then there where 4 civilians to die in the conflict.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
00:30, 16 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Alright well nevermind, the question remains should we uses it? I just don't know if we should use it because it is not the most historically accurate photo, but then there where 4 civilians to die in the conflict.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
05:35, 16 December 2023 (UTC)reply
As above, this picture is about the massacre of the Morristes. Correct? Then why do you add a caption "Goverment focres entering the Kington Fort", what is another episode in this saga. The Bannertalk13:19, 26 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The only event was the siege, there is no evidence of the government “massacre” there was civilian deaths as with any war but no massacre. I understand it is not the most historically accurate, that’s why I opened this topic in the first place.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
13:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Because the picture is of the Morrisite War? It is called “Morrisite Massecure”. If it is the Utah War then the name should be changed, sience the morsites had nothing to do with the Utah War.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
02:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)reply
No, the title is File:Grandest century in the world's history; containing a full and graphic account of the marvelous achievements of one hundred years, including great battles and conquests; the rise and fall of nations; (14778645701).jpg The files is not named Morrisite Massacre or Morrisite Massecure. When you look at the source (
https://archive.org/details/grandestcenturyi00nort/page/49/mode/1up?view=theater) and scroll back to page 48, you can see that the picture belongs to the section "Mountain Meadows Massacre". And the
Mountain Meadows Massacre (1857) is, as you can see in the article, part of the
Utah War (1857-1858) and not of the
Morrisite War (1862). The Bannertalk23:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes I see this, all I’m saying is that the title is poor and should be improved along with the discretion. In the source you provided, the picture is called “massacre of the moriste” that’s the only part that confused me.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
02:39, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Mormonism and the
Latter Day Saint movement on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Latter Day Saint movementWikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movementTemplate:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movementLatter Day Saint movement articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of
History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
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Morrisite War. Please take a moment to review
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This should be the United Stated and not the Utah Territory. As started invmy first edit "fix infobox. Added units(USMS and terrtoial milita), this was USA VS morrisite (this is because USMS where used)" I do not know why the edits where reverted, if @
The Banner could clarify.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
14:51, 5 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Nice, but both of these sources do not support your claims.
The first source states "Robert T. Burton, deputy marshal" but leaves it unclear if he was a local/state/US marshal.
The second source is even worse. It is a listing of autobiographies with a summery. The second one states: He participated in resisting the U.S. Army during the Utah War, mentions the Morrisite War, (...) No evidence he participated in the Morrisite War. Just mentioning that war does not prove that he participated. The Bannertalk20:17, 5 December 2023 (UTC)reply
local/state marshals do not exist in the US. Also the article mentions he is a US Marshall. If you want to be sure, you should read all the references for the article.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
02:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)reply
That "source" is just one passing mention of him being a "deputy marshal" acting on behalves of the territorial chief. Still n0o evidence of the central government being involved. And regarding your question about confederate or union: what do the sources say? The Bannertalk00:01, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
You are right Robert Burton was not a Deputy U.S. Marshal, he was an Utah Marshal. However Judson was a Deputy United States Marshal, as found in the source “On May 24, 1862, Deputy United States Marshal Judson Stoddard obtained a writ of habeas corpus from Territorial Chief Justice John J. Kinney. He proceeded to Kingston Fort where he was allowed to read the writ to Morris, Banks, and Klemgard. These men were not willing to receive the document, however, and let it fall to the ground in their midst.”
Also my question was not confederate or union, it was Union or United States. As it was during the civil war I do not know what one to uses.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
02:36, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Picture
I found a picture that I think we can uses. It shows the Utah Territorial Militia attacking the fort. However the picture is called "massacre of the Morrisite" that did not happen, it also shows US forces attacking civilians, while civilians died they where not killed by US forces in a massacre. Should we still uses it?
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
15:02, 13 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Yes, sorry I forgot to
link it. I just don't know if we should use it because it is not the most historically accurate photo, but then there where 4 civilians to die in the conflict.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
14:23, 15 December 2023 (UTC)reply
I asked the same question on Wikimedia Commons and they uploaded it. The question is should we uses it? I just don't know if we should use it because it is not the most historically accurate photo, but then there where 4 civilians to die in the conflict.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
00:30, 16 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Alright well nevermind, the question remains should we uses it? I just don't know if we should use it because it is not the most historically accurate photo, but then there where 4 civilians to die in the conflict.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
05:35, 16 December 2023 (UTC)reply
As above, this picture is about the massacre of the Morristes. Correct? Then why do you add a caption "Goverment focres entering the Kington Fort", what is another episode in this saga. The Bannertalk13:19, 26 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The only event was the siege, there is no evidence of the government “massacre” there was civilian deaths as with any war but no massacre. I understand it is not the most historically accurate, that’s why I opened this topic in the first place.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
13:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Because the picture is of the Morrisite War? It is called “Morrisite Massecure”. If it is the Utah War then the name should be changed, sience the morsites had nothing to do with the Utah War.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
02:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)reply
No, the title is File:Grandest century in the world's history; containing a full and graphic account of the marvelous achievements of one hundred years, including great battles and conquests; the rise and fall of nations; (14778645701).jpg The files is not named Morrisite Massacre or Morrisite Massecure. When you look at the source (
https://archive.org/details/grandestcenturyi00nort/page/49/mode/1up?view=theater) and scroll back to page 48, you can see that the picture belongs to the section "Mountain Meadows Massacre". And the
Mountain Meadows Massacre (1857) is, as you can see in the article, part of the
Utah War (1857-1858) and not of the
Morrisite War (1862). The Bannertalk23:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes I see this, all I’m saying is that the title is poor and should be improved along with the discretion. In the source you provided, the picture is called “massacre of the moriste” that’s the only part that confused me.
LuxembourgLover (
talk)
02:39, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply