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Talk in MORROCO article|class=B|level=5|topic=Society}}
Please have a look at Darija. A 2 line(s) article! It's been suggested to me merged with Darija. Cheers -- Szvest 01:07, 26 December 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up™
Good job. Here are some notes that might be helpful. I read daba in many Andalusian zajals, you can check El Mughrib fi Hullayi el Maghrib. probable origin CA dɶʔbɶn دأباً habitually yekh, akh أخ is a CA onomatopoeia expressing disgust,you can check any good dictionary, I don't think it should be on the Berber list of loanwords. radio, telfaza, camera, tilifun are also loanwords used in standard arabic , maybe it's better to include words specific to Moroccan or Maghrebi dialects. the retention of CA words no longer in use in other dialects specifically Middle Eastern, is a very good point.I think it is a striking feature in Maghrebi dialects, but habatˤa is probably not the best example, I don't know if words such as tˤaħ طاح , tselsf تسلف, naw (rain CA نوء ) are used in Moroccan Arabic; I think they're shared by most Maghrebi dialects. the entire deletion of short vowels seems pretty much questionable as short vowels are present in a good number of words; sma3 short e, Kulši short u, nti short i, a tendency to delete short vowel may sound better. Compared to other Maghrebi dialects, the absence of Turkish loanwords seems to me a noticeable feature appertaining to Moroccan Arabic.-- Sayih ( talk) 19:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Probably it would be good to have some example phrases, like:
Are you OK? Labas 3lik? Can you please help me? yemken lek t3awnee Do you Speak English ouesh tat tkelem belinglisia Excuse me smah'liyah Good Luck hath' said Good morning s' bah l'khir Good night Tsba-alakher Goodbye beslama Happy new year Sana sa3eeda Hello ahlan How are you doing? Labas 3laik?? How are you? kidair (m) / kidaira? (f) I am fine (OK) ana labas Nice to meet you misharafin No thank you la shokran Please allah y'khalleek Take care t'halla f'rasak Thank you very much shukran bezzef What do you do? f'ash khaddam? What's your name? shnu smitik? Where are you from? nta mneen?(m) /nti mneen? (f) You're welcome blajmeel
deeptrivia (
talk) 23:03, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
& I have also added the northern moroccan sentences. Sabertooth 14:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Would someone have the time to spend getting the phrases to line up correctly? Wiki tables are not difficult, but here the proper syntax has not been followed.
Snezzy 18:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how that happened but last time I contributed to the table it was fine. Probably it got too much filled with the Oujda dialect. I don't know how to fix it. -- Sabertooth 12:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I've fixed the table. I used the transliteration of Arabic alphabet found in the article. So it's all good and doesn't need more editing -- Sabertooth 00:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Are these two different? Should the articles be merged? deeptrivia ( talk) 23:10, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
As the general pronunciation of the words (not north, middle, south, or whatever). The only thing I'm not sure off is the Shadda. According to this, the phonetic value is [◌◌], but I'm not sure if it's correctly put. Sabertooth 12:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC) I'll probably be adding to the grammar section too. Sabertooth 12:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Is mezyan really of Berber Origin? In Iraqi they say zayn for "good" and this is from the Classical Lexicon. Mezyan sounds like some kind of participle built off of this root, maybe the wazn مفعّل?
Can someone help with the Arabic at Mahmoud Guinia? It's given here, but I don't know what the three dots or "v" symbol above the letters mean. Thank you, Badagnani ( talk) 01:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Answered. Badagnani ( talk) 07:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Can something be added in this article about the letter gaf ( گ? Badagnani ( talk) 07:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
To download mp3s online to learn Moroccan Arabic, check out this website:
http://moroccanarabiclanguage.com —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
207.55.234.47 (
talk) 20:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
I really don't think that the word "Najjar" (carpenter) is of Berber origin : it does exist in Standard Arabic ! The job is called "an-nijara".-- 180.160.24.166 ( talk) 05:33, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
It would be more correct to specify that the 3 categories you have chosen for categoraztion the darija are not exclusive and that there are other regional dialects that were omitted. I would also like to stress the fact that the western arabic category is too wide. In my city (Salé) and in Rabat the dialect is much closer to Tetouani/Jebli category than the Western one, so it's not only a matter of geography. Check our article (Arabe Salétin) for further details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anass Sedrati ( talk • contribs) 13:48, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Speakers of Darija will know that the Berber influence is marginal except in Jebli and perhaps Jijel Arabic (the latter one I have never heard). Jebli is pre-bedouin and is influenced by the original arabic spoken by the only berbers to be arabized in the region prior to the mass arrival of the banu hilal and possibly Andalusi Arabic. There is an influence in terms of pronounciation and manner of speech and expressions directly translated from berber but linguistically it is largely based on Hilali Arabic, who come from somewhere in the Hijaaz I believe. Because the pronounciation is difficult to understand by eastern arabs (except perhaps those who have had some contact with it and have a rich understanding of classical arabic), there is a myth that it is largely based on Berber and this should be dispelled in this article. There is also a political undertone and element of xenophobia to this belief. There are very few berber words in the large majority of Maghrebi dialects and it is firmly rooted in Bedouin Arabic. Strangely Mauritanians and Libyans are believed by mashreq arabs to speak a very pure form of arabic, when they just speak another variant of Darija. French or Spanish loan words are not always used and one can speak correct Darija without barely using any and substituting most of them with either Darija or Fus7a. This is purely attributed to code switching. I think this should be made clear with the relevant sources. Asilah1981 ( talk) 21:20, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
In terms of verbs, the only one which I can think of may be of berber origin is "sifet" to send. 99% are arabic in any case. Asilah1981 ( talk) 21:23, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
In the vocabulary subsection "Examples of words borrowed from Spanish", there are a few unlikely IPA transcriptions:
* playa : playa (beach) ([plɑyɑ) * pasiyo : paseo (walk) ([pasiyo])
The vowels in the triphthong / ɑ y ɑ/ are about as far from each other as can be, and I find such a triphthong unlikely, especially in a language not known for a large vowel inventory. I'm assuming that / j/ was meant instead of / y/, and so I'll go ahead and fix that. Please go ahead and revert my edit if /ɑyɑ/ is the actual sound. Oatco ( talk) 09:27, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
Achraf112, please do not move and rename an article again without proper discussion. If you wish to propose a name change, please use the formal process for discussing moves where there could be disagreements. You can find the instructions for that here. R Prazeres ( talk) 02:16, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Hello @ إيان:. Isn't "العربية المغربية الدارجة" more like Medlaoui's "Middle Moroccan Arabic", which is a standardization proposal that basically creates a language between spoken Moroccan Arabic and Standard Arabic? Shouldn't that have its own article or at least its own paragraph instead?-- Ideophagous ( talk) 06:01, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
Regarding this nonsense: 1) this is article is about "Moroccan Arabic" and not Hassaniya Arabic. 2) there is no such thing as "Moroccan Sahara" (except in the heads of the colonialists and their cheerleaders). M.Bitton ( talk) 16:33, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
This is an article about language, not about borders and nation-states. M.Bitton, how do you propose this article should treat Hassaniya Arabic? إيان ( talk) 17:38, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
same countryyou're not referring to anything that is remotely connected to Western Sahara, otherwise, we'll have a different discussion altogether.
if you still insist on adding Hassaniya, then a simple mention that it is different (assuming there is source to back this claim) and a link to the main article is all that's needed
According to the international standard for language codes, Moroccan Arabic is different from the other Arabic dialects that are spoken locally, namely, Hassaniya Arabic and Judeo-Moroccan Arabic.
SIL International classifies Moroccan Arabic, Hassaniya Arabic and Judeo-Moroccan Arabic as different languages.
SIL International classifies Moroccan Arabic, Hassaniya Arabic and Judeo-Moroccan Arabic as different varieties of Arabic.
I added a Template:Original research section to the Vocabulary section because it's rife with original research. Few cite reliable sources. إيان ( talk) 22:18, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Talk in MORROCO article|class=B|level=5|topic=Society}}
Please have a look at Darija. A 2 line(s) article! It's been suggested to me merged with Darija. Cheers -- Szvest 01:07, 26 December 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up™
Good job. Here are some notes that might be helpful. I read daba in many Andalusian zajals, you can check El Mughrib fi Hullayi el Maghrib. probable origin CA dɶʔbɶn دأباً habitually yekh, akh أخ is a CA onomatopoeia expressing disgust,you can check any good dictionary, I don't think it should be on the Berber list of loanwords. radio, telfaza, camera, tilifun are also loanwords used in standard arabic , maybe it's better to include words specific to Moroccan or Maghrebi dialects. the retention of CA words no longer in use in other dialects specifically Middle Eastern, is a very good point.I think it is a striking feature in Maghrebi dialects, but habatˤa is probably not the best example, I don't know if words such as tˤaħ طاح , tselsf تسلف, naw (rain CA نوء ) are used in Moroccan Arabic; I think they're shared by most Maghrebi dialects. the entire deletion of short vowels seems pretty much questionable as short vowels are present in a good number of words; sma3 short e, Kulši short u, nti short i, a tendency to delete short vowel may sound better. Compared to other Maghrebi dialects, the absence of Turkish loanwords seems to me a noticeable feature appertaining to Moroccan Arabic.-- Sayih ( talk) 19:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Probably it would be good to have some example phrases, like:
Are you OK? Labas 3lik? Can you please help me? yemken lek t3awnee Do you Speak English ouesh tat tkelem belinglisia Excuse me smah'liyah Good Luck hath' said Good morning s' bah l'khir Good night Tsba-alakher Goodbye beslama Happy new year Sana sa3eeda Hello ahlan How are you doing? Labas 3laik?? How are you? kidair (m) / kidaira? (f) I am fine (OK) ana labas Nice to meet you misharafin No thank you la shokran Please allah y'khalleek Take care t'halla f'rasak Thank you very much shukran bezzef What do you do? f'ash khaddam? What's your name? shnu smitik? Where are you from? nta mneen?(m) /nti mneen? (f) You're welcome blajmeel
deeptrivia (
talk) 23:03, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
& I have also added the northern moroccan sentences. Sabertooth 14:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Would someone have the time to spend getting the phrases to line up correctly? Wiki tables are not difficult, but here the proper syntax has not been followed.
Snezzy 18:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how that happened but last time I contributed to the table it was fine. Probably it got too much filled with the Oujda dialect. I don't know how to fix it. -- Sabertooth 12:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I've fixed the table. I used the transliteration of Arabic alphabet found in the article. So it's all good and doesn't need more editing -- Sabertooth 00:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Are these two different? Should the articles be merged? deeptrivia ( talk) 23:10, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
As the general pronunciation of the words (not north, middle, south, or whatever). The only thing I'm not sure off is the Shadda. According to this, the phonetic value is [◌◌], but I'm not sure if it's correctly put. Sabertooth 12:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC) I'll probably be adding to the grammar section too. Sabertooth 12:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Is mezyan really of Berber Origin? In Iraqi they say zayn for "good" and this is from the Classical Lexicon. Mezyan sounds like some kind of participle built off of this root, maybe the wazn مفعّل?
Can someone help with the Arabic at Mahmoud Guinia? It's given here, but I don't know what the three dots or "v" symbol above the letters mean. Thank you, Badagnani ( talk) 01:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Answered. Badagnani ( talk) 07:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Can something be added in this article about the letter gaf ( گ? Badagnani ( talk) 07:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
To download mp3s online to learn Moroccan Arabic, check out this website:
http://moroccanarabiclanguage.com —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
207.55.234.47 (
talk) 20:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
I really don't think that the word "Najjar" (carpenter) is of Berber origin : it does exist in Standard Arabic ! The job is called "an-nijara".-- 180.160.24.166 ( talk) 05:33, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
It would be more correct to specify that the 3 categories you have chosen for categoraztion the darija are not exclusive and that there are other regional dialects that were omitted. I would also like to stress the fact that the western arabic category is too wide. In my city (Salé) and in Rabat the dialect is much closer to Tetouani/Jebli category than the Western one, so it's not only a matter of geography. Check our article (Arabe Salétin) for further details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anass Sedrati ( talk • contribs) 13:48, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Speakers of Darija will know that the Berber influence is marginal except in Jebli and perhaps Jijel Arabic (the latter one I have never heard). Jebli is pre-bedouin and is influenced by the original arabic spoken by the only berbers to be arabized in the region prior to the mass arrival of the banu hilal and possibly Andalusi Arabic. There is an influence in terms of pronounciation and manner of speech and expressions directly translated from berber but linguistically it is largely based on Hilali Arabic, who come from somewhere in the Hijaaz I believe. Because the pronounciation is difficult to understand by eastern arabs (except perhaps those who have had some contact with it and have a rich understanding of classical arabic), there is a myth that it is largely based on Berber and this should be dispelled in this article. There is also a political undertone and element of xenophobia to this belief. There are very few berber words in the large majority of Maghrebi dialects and it is firmly rooted in Bedouin Arabic. Strangely Mauritanians and Libyans are believed by mashreq arabs to speak a very pure form of arabic, when they just speak another variant of Darija. French or Spanish loan words are not always used and one can speak correct Darija without barely using any and substituting most of them with either Darija or Fus7a. This is purely attributed to code switching. I think this should be made clear with the relevant sources. Asilah1981 ( talk) 21:20, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
In terms of verbs, the only one which I can think of may be of berber origin is "sifet" to send. 99% are arabic in any case. Asilah1981 ( talk) 21:23, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
In the vocabulary subsection "Examples of words borrowed from Spanish", there are a few unlikely IPA transcriptions:
* playa : playa (beach) ([plɑyɑ) * pasiyo : paseo (walk) ([pasiyo])
The vowels in the triphthong / ɑ y ɑ/ are about as far from each other as can be, and I find such a triphthong unlikely, especially in a language not known for a large vowel inventory. I'm assuming that / j/ was meant instead of / y/, and so I'll go ahead and fix that. Please go ahead and revert my edit if /ɑyɑ/ is the actual sound. Oatco ( talk) 09:27, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
Achraf112, please do not move and rename an article again without proper discussion. If you wish to propose a name change, please use the formal process for discussing moves where there could be disagreements. You can find the instructions for that here. R Prazeres ( talk) 02:16, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Hello @ إيان:. Isn't "العربية المغربية الدارجة" more like Medlaoui's "Middle Moroccan Arabic", which is a standardization proposal that basically creates a language between spoken Moroccan Arabic and Standard Arabic? Shouldn't that have its own article or at least its own paragraph instead?-- Ideophagous ( talk) 06:01, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
Regarding this nonsense: 1) this is article is about "Moroccan Arabic" and not Hassaniya Arabic. 2) there is no such thing as "Moroccan Sahara" (except in the heads of the colonialists and their cheerleaders). M.Bitton ( talk) 16:33, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
This is an article about language, not about borders and nation-states. M.Bitton, how do you propose this article should treat Hassaniya Arabic? إيان ( talk) 17:38, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
same countryyou're not referring to anything that is remotely connected to Western Sahara, otherwise, we'll have a different discussion altogether.
if you still insist on adding Hassaniya, then a simple mention that it is different (assuming there is source to back this claim) and a link to the main article is all that's needed
According to the international standard for language codes, Moroccan Arabic is different from the other Arabic dialects that are spoken locally, namely, Hassaniya Arabic and Judeo-Moroccan Arabic.
SIL International classifies Moroccan Arabic, Hassaniya Arabic and Judeo-Moroccan Arabic as different languages.
SIL International classifies Moroccan Arabic, Hassaniya Arabic and Judeo-Moroccan Arabic as different varieties of Arabic.
I added a Template:Original research section to the Vocabulary section because it's rife with original research. Few cite reliable sources. إيان ( talk) 22:18, 17 June 2023 (UTC)