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Which dialect do those who claim Moravian is a language claim to be the standard? Hanácký? Valašský? The words given in the table probably also vary from region to region. - filelake shoe 10:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I think the people does not oppose the program, many people rather are nervous, sure possible the new language is indeed difficult. The Kajkavian Croats also want to translate the Bible in a new Kajkavian literary language. The new standard is also difficult, but few Kajkavians welcomes and supports the idea (other Croats [Štokavians] opposed this new language). The Kajkavian liturgical language was maintained in many Croatian church. Doncsecz talk 15:58, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
In the world there are outstanding debts (question of new or old nations and languages). Always was and always will be. One should distinguish things: for ex. unnecessary hack-language the Balearic languages (sanctimoniousness of the Spanish nationalisms), but the Burgenland Croatian or Banat Bulgarian has a serious culture. Doncsecz talk 17:47, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be appropriate to add an explanatory section about Moravian language separatism to the article. I could create a short introduction based on the findings cited above. Do you agree? -- Vejvančický ( talk | contribs) 09:54, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
This is true. The denomination separatism is a malicious classification, since exist Burgenland Croatian Standard language and his existance guarantee also Croatia. Vid Balog actor also experimenting to create a new Kajkavian Standard language and other Croatian linguists are not attacking this plain (Balog's work is the Kajkavian New Testament). In Slovenia prominent linguists argue, still has Prekmurian Standard language in the art of Prekmurian and Hungarian Slovene writers and in the publications of Porabje and Porabski koledar. There is no question about language separatism. Doncsecz talk 14:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Could the person who's just slapped all those tags on this article please explain themselves? There is clearly enough available source which primarily discusses this topic, I don't see how on Earth its "notability is in question". - filelake shoe 16:10, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Dear File! A lot of lesser-known languages in the world, zB.: in Africa and Asia, or the Istro-Romanian language in the Balkan. Doncsecz talk 17:40, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
According to WP:N if a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, is notable. I´m in doubts about "significant coverage", if this language is not in any reliable encyclopedia of languages.-- Yopie ( talk) 18:56, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
The typical examples of the language-separatism and sharing of a nation not the Moravian, but the Moldovan language: the Moldavian is a Romanian dialectical speech, there is no legal historical basis. Doncsecz talk 12:54, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
The political party Moravané claims that Czech language is originally Moravian and that Czechs stole the language.
Source and explain this better please, "stealing a language" is meaningless nationalist propaganda. No one "stole" anything. It's not like Charles IV broke into Olomouc under cover of night and somehow "stole" the language. Is it supposed to say that people living in Bohemia previously spoke another language, then they adopted the language spoken in Moravia which was later standardised as Bohemian? - filelake shoe 16:20, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
Na základě konstitučního patentu v roce 1848 se utvořil nový zemský sněm Moravského markrabství. Na návrh Petra ryt. Chlumeckého sněm uzákonil, aby moravský jazyk v kostelích a školách, v úřadě a před právem s německým stejně se postavil. Podle J. Jungmanna byla tehdejší forma českého spisovného jazyka bližší jazyku moravské Kralické bibli než spisům českých Veleslavínových a mluvilo se vlastně řečí moravskou. A podle názoru K.Havlíčka byl spisovný jazyk v Čechách vlastně čistou moravštinou
/Národní listy/
Havlík Lubomír E., Moravské letopisy, Brno, 1993
off topic discussion |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
But this is Slavic languages, and in the Slavic are was very one-sided the standardisation of national language, even the panslavic aspriations displace few other languages. Doncsecz talk 08:07, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
|
Disagree that this is a constructed language. The attempts to standardise it are nothing out of the ordinary and are based on the way people speak. Constructed languages are written before they are spoken. - filelake shoe 12:41, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
This that the Moravian is Constructed language is a drool. All literary language is constructed language. The official view of Czech about the Moravian is disinterested (see the Rusyn language). Doncsecz talk 09:18, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I really think the title of this article should be plural dialects. See for example this, which looks like it referenced some of this article, which refers to Moravian dialects as a group. Since the bridge dialects all share features with whatever they're next to (Slovakia, Cieszyn Silesia or in the case of Brno, the shadows of Germans and Jews), there's no plausible way they could ever have evolved to what they are now from one dialect. I like morcevnik.cz, which I realise isn't an academic source, but I gather a Moravian can look at it and not think it's insane, and there really are not many words and features shared amongst all dialects. - filelake shoe 20:08, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
I removed the table "retaining short vowels" under linguistic features. While I can tell this is sometimes true that čárky are missing, there is the problem that North Moravian dialects never observe long vowels, full stop. The words in the table were also far too region-specific. I have never heard anyone say "jest" instead of "jíst", I would expect "jést" from Hanáčtina, "íst" from Valašstina, "jist" or "ist" in SM (I believe "un í" for "on jí" is a shibboleth for some North Moravian microregion). The claim that "može" instead of "může" is endemic to Eastern Moravia is incorrect, I know it's an old source but Bartoš's dialectology really shows it scattered all over the place, and that ů -> o retention definitely blends into the SM dialects too. "Mucha" for "moucha" is bound to exist somewhere, but "mócha" and "múcha" do also. Anyway, those were just bad examples, but the short vowels is a more complicated issue than a retention of an archaic feature and the comparison to other languages which don't even use long vowels wasn't illustrating much. - filelake shoe 17:25, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
The Moravian dialect (language) is native to in Slovakia too!
Bošnjak Ilija 12 November 2014., 19:27
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Somewhere within the article a couple of sourced statements about Bohemian-Moravian dialects of the Czech language being mutually-intelligible to some 'Nth' degree should be made. 50.111.41.101 ( talk) 16:52, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
Saying that silesian is polish is like saying that moravian is vlach.. Two very different dialects so the `(polish)` should be removed from the image -- Kreyren ( talk) 04:10, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
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Which dialect do those who claim Moravian is a language claim to be the standard? Hanácký? Valašský? The words given in the table probably also vary from region to region. - filelake shoe 10:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I think the people does not oppose the program, many people rather are nervous, sure possible the new language is indeed difficult. The Kajkavian Croats also want to translate the Bible in a new Kajkavian literary language. The new standard is also difficult, but few Kajkavians welcomes and supports the idea (other Croats [Štokavians] opposed this new language). The Kajkavian liturgical language was maintained in many Croatian church. Doncsecz talk 15:58, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
In the world there are outstanding debts (question of new or old nations and languages). Always was and always will be. One should distinguish things: for ex. unnecessary hack-language the Balearic languages (sanctimoniousness of the Spanish nationalisms), but the Burgenland Croatian or Banat Bulgarian has a serious culture. Doncsecz talk 17:47, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be appropriate to add an explanatory section about Moravian language separatism to the article. I could create a short introduction based on the findings cited above. Do you agree? -- Vejvančický ( talk | contribs) 09:54, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
This is true. The denomination separatism is a malicious classification, since exist Burgenland Croatian Standard language and his existance guarantee also Croatia. Vid Balog actor also experimenting to create a new Kajkavian Standard language and other Croatian linguists are not attacking this plain (Balog's work is the Kajkavian New Testament). In Slovenia prominent linguists argue, still has Prekmurian Standard language in the art of Prekmurian and Hungarian Slovene writers and in the publications of Porabje and Porabski koledar. There is no question about language separatism. Doncsecz talk 14:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Could the person who's just slapped all those tags on this article please explain themselves? There is clearly enough available source which primarily discusses this topic, I don't see how on Earth its "notability is in question". - filelake shoe 16:10, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Dear File! A lot of lesser-known languages in the world, zB.: in Africa and Asia, or the Istro-Romanian language in the Balkan. Doncsecz talk 17:40, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
According to WP:N if a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, is notable. I´m in doubts about "significant coverage", if this language is not in any reliable encyclopedia of languages.-- Yopie ( talk) 18:56, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
The typical examples of the language-separatism and sharing of a nation not the Moravian, but the Moldovan language: the Moldavian is a Romanian dialectical speech, there is no legal historical basis. Doncsecz talk 12:54, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
The political party Moravané claims that Czech language is originally Moravian and that Czechs stole the language.
Source and explain this better please, "stealing a language" is meaningless nationalist propaganda. No one "stole" anything. It's not like Charles IV broke into Olomouc under cover of night and somehow "stole" the language. Is it supposed to say that people living in Bohemia previously spoke another language, then they adopted the language spoken in Moravia which was later standardised as Bohemian? - filelake shoe 16:20, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
Na základě konstitučního patentu v roce 1848 se utvořil nový zemský sněm Moravského markrabství. Na návrh Petra ryt. Chlumeckého sněm uzákonil, aby moravský jazyk v kostelích a školách, v úřadě a před právem s německým stejně se postavil. Podle J. Jungmanna byla tehdejší forma českého spisovného jazyka bližší jazyku moravské Kralické bibli než spisům českých Veleslavínových a mluvilo se vlastně řečí moravskou. A podle názoru K.Havlíčka byl spisovný jazyk v Čechách vlastně čistou moravštinou
/Národní listy/
Havlík Lubomír E., Moravské letopisy, Brno, 1993
off topic discussion |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
But this is Slavic languages, and in the Slavic are was very one-sided the standardisation of national language, even the panslavic aspriations displace few other languages. Doncsecz talk 08:07, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
|
Disagree that this is a constructed language. The attempts to standardise it are nothing out of the ordinary and are based on the way people speak. Constructed languages are written before they are spoken. - filelake shoe 12:41, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
This that the Moravian is Constructed language is a drool. All literary language is constructed language. The official view of Czech about the Moravian is disinterested (see the Rusyn language). Doncsecz talk 09:18, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I really think the title of this article should be plural dialects. See for example this, which looks like it referenced some of this article, which refers to Moravian dialects as a group. Since the bridge dialects all share features with whatever they're next to (Slovakia, Cieszyn Silesia or in the case of Brno, the shadows of Germans and Jews), there's no plausible way they could ever have evolved to what they are now from one dialect. I like morcevnik.cz, which I realise isn't an academic source, but I gather a Moravian can look at it and not think it's insane, and there really are not many words and features shared amongst all dialects. - filelake shoe 20:08, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
I removed the table "retaining short vowels" under linguistic features. While I can tell this is sometimes true that čárky are missing, there is the problem that North Moravian dialects never observe long vowels, full stop. The words in the table were also far too region-specific. I have never heard anyone say "jest" instead of "jíst", I would expect "jést" from Hanáčtina, "íst" from Valašstina, "jist" or "ist" in SM (I believe "un í" for "on jí" is a shibboleth for some North Moravian microregion). The claim that "može" instead of "může" is endemic to Eastern Moravia is incorrect, I know it's an old source but Bartoš's dialectology really shows it scattered all over the place, and that ů -> o retention definitely blends into the SM dialects too. "Mucha" for "moucha" is bound to exist somewhere, but "mócha" and "múcha" do also. Anyway, those were just bad examples, but the short vowels is a more complicated issue than a retention of an archaic feature and the comparison to other languages which don't even use long vowels wasn't illustrating much. - filelake shoe 17:25, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
The Moravian dialect (language) is native to in Slovakia too!
Bošnjak Ilija 12 November 2014., 19:27
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Moravian dialects. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:33, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Somewhere within the article a couple of sourced statements about Bohemian-Moravian dialects of the Czech language being mutually-intelligible to some 'Nth' degree should be made. 50.111.41.101 ( talk) 16:52, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
Saying that silesian is polish is like saying that moravian is vlach.. Two very different dialects so the `(polish)` should be removed from the image -- Kreyren ( talk) 04:10, 31 October 2022 (UTC)