This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Orbital periods of 28.1 & 41.7 days calculated from orbital radii of 50 & 65 Mm, assumed to not vary significantly from the semimajor axes, and a Plutonian mass of 1.25 E22 kg. Radii are consistant with the Plutonian system diagram published by NASA (in fact I measured just those figures), but no other source was provided. kwami 01:47, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, that report didn't match the NASA diagrams. Anyway, now confirmed with IAU release ref'd on the orphaned duplicate article. kwami 10:07, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Naming notes
So far no asteroid shares the name of a Plutonian moon.
I just removed this short section. If the section can be expanded, put it back. It seems to be hinting at something, but currently detracts from the article.
Ummm, could you at least sign your comments? If you're familiar with the sections on each {Planet}'s natural satellites page, you would see that this is a "standard" comment made. The SWRI group has names forthcoming, I'm sure: but that's not the point. It's simply standard to note this since planetary satellite names and minor planet names can (unfortunately) overlap. -- Sturmde 15:19, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
forgive my ignorance, but could the 'images' be uploaded to wikipedia if the moons have been 'imaged'? 'In The News' currently mentions them after all. Or are the images unsuitable? -- 81.154.236.221 19:48, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Nix and Hydra can be seen here: http://www.nasa.gov/nh_new-horizons-spots-small-moons-orbiting-pluto/
When I try to look at the animation link at the bottom (which is referenced in the article text), an AVI file is downloaded, and Windows Media Player gives me an error that it can't find the codec. What codec is needed to look at it? (And this should probably be referenced next to the link.) Tempshill 20:49, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm a bit uncomfortable that we claim the Pluto+Charon system is a double planet just because the barycenter is not inside Pluto. I raised the same objection in Talk:Jupiter#Barycenter. The problem is, there are planet+satellite configurations where the barycenter is outside the planet, yet the pair is clearly not a double planet. For instance, if Neptune had a satellite at a distance of 50 Gm — well within its Hill sphere — with a mass of just 1/500 of Neptune, then the barycenter of this system would be well outside of Neptune, but I think this is clearly not a double planet system. -- Doradus 14:34, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Never mind. Someone has reworded it now and I like it the way it is. -- Doradus 00:01, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
who says Charon should be pronounced "shair'-un"? For all I know, it should be pronounced [xa'ro:n], or [kha'ro:n], or, if you really cannot avoid giving it a Modern English tint, "kair'-un" would be acceptable (but should not be prescribed as superior to the former). 83.79.181.171 20:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Whilest the discoverer may have named it 'Sharon' in honour of his wife, that means nothing. The discoverers of a certain large object named it 'Xena', that does not mean that is the official name for it. The official name for the main moon of Pluto is Charon pronounced in the Greek style, because it is from greek mythology. It may refer to the name of someone's wife in an astronomer's joke/pun, but the actual name is official because it is the greek ferryman to the underworld, matching the whole Pluto thing. It should no more be pronounced as the discoverer's wife's name than a certain planet should be called George.
At the time I commented, only the sharon version of pronunciation was given. Noting that astronomers tend to use one pronunciation, whilst the classical is another, is fine as it is. It simply hadn't been like this before. And I say Pa-ris, so there :-)
Well, I'm an astronomer, and I pronounce it in the Greek way. Whether the discoverer likes it or not, planets and moons are named for classical characters, and not for our loved ones. At professional meetings, both pronunciations are used approximately equally, so both should be given equal weight here.
An anon added the statement that the proposed names for the new moons are Pluto's three-headed dog Cerberus and its two-headed brother Orthrus. Great names, and appropriate for medium moons, but I can't confirm, so I deleted. (One-headed Charon for Pluto I, two-headed Orthrus for Pluto II, and three-headed Cerberus for Pluto III - it's got a nice symmetry to it.) kwami 01:12, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Now there's a change to suggest those names to Alan Stern. See this Planetary Society Weblog entry:
Well, I guess Greek names are ok.-- Jyril 14:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Are these the nicknames of the moons? — Hurricane Devon ( Talk ) 20:27, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Are the nicknames really important enough to be listed in the table?-- Jyril 18:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Recent Hubble images show the moons of Pluto have all similar color after all. [3] Schematic view of the Pluto system shows S/2005 P 1 to be slightly larger. [4] Unfortunately, no diameter values for the moons are provided in the news release.-- Jyril 16:17, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
The phrase "as seen from the ecliptic" makes no sense. Depending on where on the ecliptic plane one is located, the moons' orbits could look completely different. Does this actually mean "as seen from the Sun"? If so, why is it so different from the view from the Earth? -- Doradus 16:36, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
The paper I cited is Lithwick & Wu, On the Origin of Pluto's Minor Moons, Nix and Hydra, American Astronomical Society, DDA meeting #38, #3.05, July 2007. I have only seen the abstract, and suspect I got the second eccentricity wrong, or that there's a typo. kwami 16:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
There has been consensus to change the name of the Uranus' natural satellites article to "Moons of Uranus" here. This fits the footer, is less jargony, and avoids the apostrophe issue some people complain about with Uranus and Mars. However, this article should have the same format. Anyone here wish to comment, support, or object? kwami 19:40, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Why are there two different values for the orbital eccentricity of their circum-barycentric orbit (0 vs. 0.0022)? As long as you can neglect the influences of Nix and Hydra (together less than 3 permille of Charon's mass) the Newtonian laws of motion require the eccentriciues to be equal. The JPL page does not mention a separate eccentricity for Pluto around P+C's barycenter, therefore we can assume them to be equal.-- SiriusB ( talk) 13:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
The table indicates that Pluto is inclined 0.001° to its own equator. This is an error, I think... it does not seem possible. If anyone agrees with me, please go ahead and correct the table. 71.219.240.123 ( talk) 03:27, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
There are two more "potential" satellites that were discovered at the same time as P4, but they are smaller and are still only "potential" satellites. Is there a place in this article for those, or should we wait until the potential is realized (or rejected)? If this is included, can someone find an original source? The page I included above was linked to from the Twitter feed associated with http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/, but it's written for the layman and lacks detail. (All it says about the potential satellites is "But P4 wasn’t the only body around Pluto discovered this year. Two more candidate satellites, smaller than P4, were also found. But they aren’t satellites yet. The team needs to do more research and make more observations before the new bodies can be confirmed or rejected as Plutonian satellites." Ben Hocking ( talk| contribs) 11:48, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
If our report of Showalter's email is accurate, and he expects them to be named within three months, and since he's stated in interviews that he's been waiting for confirmation of potential satellites before naming, then they've either disconfirmed P6 or expect to announce it soon. — kwami ( talk) 17:27, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
http://www.minotdailynews.com/page/blogs.detail/display/837/Naming-Pluto-s-two-new-moons.html
I'm not sure how much we can trust this. And even if it is true, we can't guarantee this is what they will be named. Worth a mention or no? 134340Goat ( talk) 21:25, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Why have we gone back to calling them S/2011 P1 and S/2012 P1? Although both are "official", I thought we'd decided to use Pluto's number rather than its letter. 134340Goat ( talk) 01:57, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I'm a bit bemused by the reversions of my copyedits of the History section. We prefer the active over the passive voice and we prefer sentences which don't contain ambiguity. -- John ( talk) 23:52, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
John:
Kwami:
Everyone:
Noetica Tea? 12:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
See http://www.plutorocks.com/. Seems S/2011 (134340) 1 and S/2012 (134340) 1 are supposed to be named Vulcan and Cerberus. The site says "It could take 1-2 months for the final names of P4 and P5 to be selected and approved." Does anybody know whether the approval already happened? -- Toshio Yamaguchi 09:45, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
Good, they chose Styx, which fits. — kwami ( talk) 00:38, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
You know that picture below the table that shows the scaled distances between the objects of the Plutonian system? Anyway, I see that it's been replaced to accommodate for the recently announced names of the moons, however upon clicking on it for the full picture, I simply get redirected here to the old one. Any way to fix this? 134340Goat ( talk) 01:05, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Never mind, seems to have been fixed 134340Goat ( talk) 14:31, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps an image to consider: [6] — kwami ( talk) 19:17, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Nix and Hydra can be seen here: http://www.nasa.gov/nh_new-horizons-spots-small-moons-orbiting-pluto/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.20.133.8 ( talk) 16:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Have there been any additional sightings of objects that might be further satellites than those already discovered that would substantiate this claim, since the discovery of Styx and Kerberos? 203.114.146.141 ( talk) 04:17, 3 July 2014 (UTC)User calibanu
This article lists Pluto's diameter as about 2306 km, however Pluto's main article lists the radius as 1184 km (2368 km in diameter). As far as I know, the latter estimate is the most recent, so should this article be changed to reflect that? Or is there a reason it is listed differently here? 134340Goat ( talk) 04:14, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
NASA-Audio (Wednesday, June 3, 2015@1pm/edt/usa) - Panel of experts to discuss latest "surprising" findings by the Hubble Space Telescope of the Moons of Pluto. [1] - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan ( talk) 12:04, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
References
This New York Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/science/space/pluto-moons-orbits-described-in-nature-article.html?_r=0 quotes a new study published in the Nature magazine about Pluto's moon system. I hope info from that article can be incorporated into this article. I see lot's of news articles recently quoting the Nature article but it itself is behind a paywall. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7554/full/nature14469.html Published online 03 June 2015. 85.170.155.24 ( talk) 10:40, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
In http://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/new-horizons-captures-two-of-plutos-smaller-moons, it is said that Hydra's size has been measured to be 55x40 km, while Nix is 42x36 km. As these measurements differ from the one that was obtained by Hubble via indirect methods, I think they should be added as alternative values. As I'm technically not able to do this, can somebody help, please? Renerpho ( talk) 16:48, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
On the press conference today it has been said that Pluto's radius was estimated to be 1186 +-2 km, resulting in a diamter of 2372 +-4. That should be added to the article, though I don't know what I can give as a reference. Renerpho ( talk) 20:45, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Did they mention the density? Sometimes our calculations are a bit off. — kwami ( talk) 21:03, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Is this section accurate? I can't find the numbers given in the cites. The main papers are both available to read by anyone:
http://hubblesite.org/pubinfo/pdf/2015/24/pdf.pdf
and
http://www.nature.com/news/pluto-s-moons-move-in-synchrony-1.17681
The resonance is summarized by the author of the main paper Mark Showalter as “If you lived in the Pluto system and were sitting on Nix, you would see Hydra go around three times every time Styx goes around twice,” which might be a good way to begin this section. (quote from that second Nature paper).
In these papers, I can find no mention anywhere of the numbers in the introductory paragraph of the resonances section of this article:
"Styx, Nix, and Hydra are in a 3-body orbital resonance with orbital periods in a ratio of 18:22:33.[14] The ratios are exact when orbital precession is taken into account. This means that in a recurring cycle there are 11 orbits of Styx for every 9 of Nix and 6 of Hydra. Nix and Hydra are in a simple 2:3 resonance.[14][15] The ratios of synodic periods are such that there are 5 Styx–Hydra conjunctions and 3 Nix–Hydra conjunctions for every 2 conjunctions of Styx and Nix."
How are those figures 18:22:33 derived from the paper? Where do the numbers 11, 9 and 6 come from in the citation sources? I can't find any of this with a search for those numbers in the papers.
Am I missing something, can anyone see how those numbers relate to what the paper says?
This is my summary of the relevant section of the paper from a science blog post:
"Details of their findings about the resonant orbits: the resonance is phi = 180 degrees = (approx) 3 s - 5 n + 2 h where s is the angular position of Styx, n is the angular position of Nix and h is the angular position of Hydra, all as measured from the barycentre of the system. There the angle phi will librate back and forth but is almost exactly 180 degrees. From which you can deduce that every three times Nix laps Hydra, then Styx laps Nix twice. (Using analogy of runners lapping each other on a racetrack). Then there is another resonance involving Kerberos. 180 degrees = (approx) 42s - 85 n + 43 k. From which it follows that every 42 times Nx laps Kerberos, then Styx laps Nix 43 times. But unlike the Jupiter system resonances, where the pattern repeats exactly, they are in different positions relative to the barycenter when they lap each other, each time the resonance repeats. It was already known (since Nix was discovered in 2011) that they are all in a near 1:3:4:5:6 resonance with Charon - but this is not exact. It may have been an exact resonance in the past if Charon's orbit was originally more eccentric."
Robert Walker ( talk) 13:31, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Merged article into section. Deleted obvious garbage, such as image showing Charon eclipsing Sputnik Planum. I don't know how much of the rest might be garbage. — kwami ( talk) 20:07, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
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I was measuring the relative distances and sizes of the image under List ( /info/en/?search=File:Pluto_and_Charon_system_new.png) and it seems to me that the distances in the picture don't match the distances noted in the list above it. For example if I scale the image so that Charon is 1200 pixels wide, in reality ~1208km in diameter, I would expect the distance to the barycenter to be around 17536 pixel (the same in km). But instead it is just around 11600 pixel? Only for Pluto it's correct (semi-major axis = 2035km --> distance in image ~2035 pixel). I'm measuring from the center of each body.
Now I found this image ( https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pluto_Moons_Orbit_Distance_2015.svg) used on the German Pluto wiki-page (They have the same table with all the moons there). Which even by looking at it you can see it has very different distances. But this one also seems off as I found out that it measures the semi-major axis from each moon's center to Pluto's center (which is not correct, it should be the distance from moon center to barycenter, that is the semi-major axis distance given in the list).
So what I'm saying is, that either the data in the list is wrong, or the image (in which case it should probably be removed or replaced by a correct version), or am I not understanding something correctly? 79.218.21.163 ( talk) 01:11, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
An interesting paper! Double sharp ( talk) 14:27, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Orbital periods of 28.1 & 41.7 days calculated from orbital radii of 50 & 65 Mm, assumed to not vary significantly from the semimajor axes, and a Plutonian mass of 1.25 E22 kg. Radii are consistant with the Plutonian system diagram published by NASA (in fact I measured just those figures), but no other source was provided. kwami 01:47, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, that report didn't match the NASA diagrams. Anyway, now confirmed with IAU release ref'd on the orphaned duplicate article. kwami 10:07, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Naming notes
So far no asteroid shares the name of a Plutonian moon.
I just removed this short section. If the section can be expanded, put it back. It seems to be hinting at something, but currently detracts from the article.
Ummm, could you at least sign your comments? If you're familiar with the sections on each {Planet}'s natural satellites page, you would see that this is a "standard" comment made. The SWRI group has names forthcoming, I'm sure: but that's not the point. It's simply standard to note this since planetary satellite names and minor planet names can (unfortunately) overlap. -- Sturmde 15:19, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
forgive my ignorance, but could the 'images' be uploaded to wikipedia if the moons have been 'imaged'? 'In The News' currently mentions them after all. Or are the images unsuitable? -- 81.154.236.221 19:48, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Nix and Hydra can be seen here: http://www.nasa.gov/nh_new-horizons-spots-small-moons-orbiting-pluto/
When I try to look at the animation link at the bottom (which is referenced in the article text), an AVI file is downloaded, and Windows Media Player gives me an error that it can't find the codec. What codec is needed to look at it? (And this should probably be referenced next to the link.) Tempshill 20:49, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm a bit uncomfortable that we claim the Pluto+Charon system is a double planet just because the barycenter is not inside Pluto. I raised the same objection in Talk:Jupiter#Barycenter. The problem is, there are planet+satellite configurations where the barycenter is outside the planet, yet the pair is clearly not a double planet. For instance, if Neptune had a satellite at a distance of 50 Gm — well within its Hill sphere — with a mass of just 1/500 of Neptune, then the barycenter of this system would be well outside of Neptune, but I think this is clearly not a double planet system. -- Doradus 14:34, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Never mind. Someone has reworded it now and I like it the way it is. -- Doradus 00:01, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
who says Charon should be pronounced "shair'-un"? For all I know, it should be pronounced [xa'ro:n], or [kha'ro:n], or, if you really cannot avoid giving it a Modern English tint, "kair'-un" would be acceptable (but should not be prescribed as superior to the former). 83.79.181.171 20:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Whilest the discoverer may have named it 'Sharon' in honour of his wife, that means nothing. The discoverers of a certain large object named it 'Xena', that does not mean that is the official name for it. The official name for the main moon of Pluto is Charon pronounced in the Greek style, because it is from greek mythology. It may refer to the name of someone's wife in an astronomer's joke/pun, but the actual name is official because it is the greek ferryman to the underworld, matching the whole Pluto thing. It should no more be pronounced as the discoverer's wife's name than a certain planet should be called George.
At the time I commented, only the sharon version of pronunciation was given. Noting that astronomers tend to use one pronunciation, whilst the classical is another, is fine as it is. It simply hadn't been like this before. And I say Pa-ris, so there :-)
Well, I'm an astronomer, and I pronounce it in the Greek way. Whether the discoverer likes it or not, planets and moons are named for classical characters, and not for our loved ones. At professional meetings, both pronunciations are used approximately equally, so both should be given equal weight here.
An anon added the statement that the proposed names for the new moons are Pluto's three-headed dog Cerberus and its two-headed brother Orthrus. Great names, and appropriate for medium moons, but I can't confirm, so I deleted. (One-headed Charon for Pluto I, two-headed Orthrus for Pluto II, and three-headed Cerberus for Pluto III - it's got a nice symmetry to it.) kwami 01:12, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Now there's a change to suggest those names to Alan Stern. See this Planetary Society Weblog entry:
Well, I guess Greek names are ok.-- Jyril 14:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Are these the nicknames of the moons? — Hurricane Devon ( Talk ) 20:27, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Are the nicknames really important enough to be listed in the table?-- Jyril 18:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Recent Hubble images show the moons of Pluto have all similar color after all. [3] Schematic view of the Pluto system shows S/2005 P 1 to be slightly larger. [4] Unfortunately, no diameter values for the moons are provided in the news release.-- Jyril 16:17, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
The phrase "as seen from the ecliptic" makes no sense. Depending on where on the ecliptic plane one is located, the moons' orbits could look completely different. Does this actually mean "as seen from the Sun"? If so, why is it so different from the view from the Earth? -- Doradus 16:36, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
The paper I cited is Lithwick & Wu, On the Origin of Pluto's Minor Moons, Nix and Hydra, American Astronomical Society, DDA meeting #38, #3.05, July 2007. I have only seen the abstract, and suspect I got the second eccentricity wrong, or that there's a typo. kwami 16:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
There has been consensus to change the name of the Uranus' natural satellites article to "Moons of Uranus" here. This fits the footer, is less jargony, and avoids the apostrophe issue some people complain about with Uranus and Mars. However, this article should have the same format. Anyone here wish to comment, support, or object? kwami 19:40, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Why are there two different values for the orbital eccentricity of their circum-barycentric orbit (0 vs. 0.0022)? As long as you can neglect the influences of Nix and Hydra (together less than 3 permille of Charon's mass) the Newtonian laws of motion require the eccentriciues to be equal. The JPL page does not mention a separate eccentricity for Pluto around P+C's barycenter, therefore we can assume them to be equal.-- SiriusB ( talk) 13:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
The table indicates that Pluto is inclined 0.001° to its own equator. This is an error, I think... it does not seem possible. If anyone agrees with me, please go ahead and correct the table. 71.219.240.123 ( talk) 03:27, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
There are two more "potential" satellites that were discovered at the same time as P4, but they are smaller and are still only "potential" satellites. Is there a place in this article for those, or should we wait until the potential is realized (or rejected)? If this is included, can someone find an original source? The page I included above was linked to from the Twitter feed associated with http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/, but it's written for the layman and lacks detail. (All it says about the potential satellites is "But P4 wasn’t the only body around Pluto discovered this year. Two more candidate satellites, smaller than P4, were also found. But they aren’t satellites yet. The team needs to do more research and make more observations before the new bodies can be confirmed or rejected as Plutonian satellites." Ben Hocking ( talk| contribs) 11:48, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
If our report of Showalter's email is accurate, and he expects them to be named within three months, and since he's stated in interviews that he's been waiting for confirmation of potential satellites before naming, then they've either disconfirmed P6 or expect to announce it soon. — kwami ( talk) 17:27, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
http://www.minotdailynews.com/page/blogs.detail/display/837/Naming-Pluto-s-two-new-moons.html
I'm not sure how much we can trust this. And even if it is true, we can't guarantee this is what they will be named. Worth a mention or no? 134340Goat ( talk) 21:25, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Why have we gone back to calling them S/2011 P1 and S/2012 P1? Although both are "official", I thought we'd decided to use Pluto's number rather than its letter. 134340Goat ( talk) 01:57, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I'm a bit bemused by the reversions of my copyedits of the History section. We prefer the active over the passive voice and we prefer sentences which don't contain ambiguity. -- John ( talk) 23:52, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
John:
Kwami:
Everyone:
Noetica Tea? 12:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
See http://www.plutorocks.com/. Seems S/2011 (134340) 1 and S/2012 (134340) 1 are supposed to be named Vulcan and Cerberus. The site says "It could take 1-2 months for the final names of P4 and P5 to be selected and approved." Does anybody know whether the approval already happened? -- Toshio Yamaguchi 09:45, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
Good, they chose Styx, which fits. — kwami ( talk) 00:38, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
You know that picture below the table that shows the scaled distances between the objects of the Plutonian system? Anyway, I see that it's been replaced to accommodate for the recently announced names of the moons, however upon clicking on it for the full picture, I simply get redirected here to the old one. Any way to fix this? 134340Goat ( talk) 01:05, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Never mind, seems to have been fixed 134340Goat ( talk) 14:31, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps an image to consider: [6] — kwami ( talk) 19:17, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Nix and Hydra can be seen here: http://www.nasa.gov/nh_new-horizons-spots-small-moons-orbiting-pluto/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.20.133.8 ( talk) 16:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Have there been any additional sightings of objects that might be further satellites than those already discovered that would substantiate this claim, since the discovery of Styx and Kerberos? 203.114.146.141 ( talk) 04:17, 3 July 2014 (UTC)User calibanu
This article lists Pluto's diameter as about 2306 km, however Pluto's main article lists the radius as 1184 km (2368 km in diameter). As far as I know, the latter estimate is the most recent, so should this article be changed to reflect that? Or is there a reason it is listed differently here? 134340Goat ( talk) 04:14, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
NASA-Audio (Wednesday, June 3, 2015@1pm/edt/usa) - Panel of experts to discuss latest "surprising" findings by the Hubble Space Telescope of the Moons of Pluto. [1] - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan ( talk) 12:04, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
References
This New York Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/science/space/pluto-moons-orbits-described-in-nature-article.html?_r=0 quotes a new study published in the Nature magazine about Pluto's moon system. I hope info from that article can be incorporated into this article. I see lot's of news articles recently quoting the Nature article but it itself is behind a paywall. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7554/full/nature14469.html Published online 03 June 2015. 85.170.155.24 ( talk) 10:40, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
In http://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/new-horizons-captures-two-of-plutos-smaller-moons, it is said that Hydra's size has been measured to be 55x40 km, while Nix is 42x36 km. As these measurements differ from the one that was obtained by Hubble via indirect methods, I think they should be added as alternative values. As I'm technically not able to do this, can somebody help, please? Renerpho ( talk) 16:48, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
On the press conference today it has been said that Pluto's radius was estimated to be 1186 +-2 km, resulting in a diamter of 2372 +-4. That should be added to the article, though I don't know what I can give as a reference. Renerpho ( talk) 20:45, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Did they mention the density? Sometimes our calculations are a bit off. — kwami ( talk) 21:03, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Is this section accurate? I can't find the numbers given in the cites. The main papers are both available to read by anyone:
http://hubblesite.org/pubinfo/pdf/2015/24/pdf.pdf
and
http://www.nature.com/news/pluto-s-moons-move-in-synchrony-1.17681
The resonance is summarized by the author of the main paper Mark Showalter as “If you lived in the Pluto system and were sitting on Nix, you would see Hydra go around three times every time Styx goes around twice,” which might be a good way to begin this section. (quote from that second Nature paper).
In these papers, I can find no mention anywhere of the numbers in the introductory paragraph of the resonances section of this article:
"Styx, Nix, and Hydra are in a 3-body orbital resonance with orbital periods in a ratio of 18:22:33.[14] The ratios are exact when orbital precession is taken into account. This means that in a recurring cycle there are 11 orbits of Styx for every 9 of Nix and 6 of Hydra. Nix and Hydra are in a simple 2:3 resonance.[14][15] The ratios of synodic periods are such that there are 5 Styx–Hydra conjunctions and 3 Nix–Hydra conjunctions for every 2 conjunctions of Styx and Nix."
How are those figures 18:22:33 derived from the paper? Where do the numbers 11, 9 and 6 come from in the citation sources? I can't find any of this with a search for those numbers in the papers.
Am I missing something, can anyone see how those numbers relate to what the paper says?
This is my summary of the relevant section of the paper from a science blog post:
"Details of their findings about the resonant orbits: the resonance is phi = 180 degrees = (approx) 3 s - 5 n + 2 h where s is the angular position of Styx, n is the angular position of Nix and h is the angular position of Hydra, all as measured from the barycentre of the system. There the angle phi will librate back and forth but is almost exactly 180 degrees. From which you can deduce that every three times Nix laps Hydra, then Styx laps Nix twice. (Using analogy of runners lapping each other on a racetrack). Then there is another resonance involving Kerberos. 180 degrees = (approx) 42s - 85 n + 43 k. From which it follows that every 42 times Nx laps Kerberos, then Styx laps Nix 43 times. But unlike the Jupiter system resonances, where the pattern repeats exactly, they are in different positions relative to the barycenter when they lap each other, each time the resonance repeats. It was already known (since Nix was discovered in 2011) that they are all in a near 1:3:4:5:6 resonance with Charon - but this is not exact. It may have been an exact resonance in the past if Charon's orbit was originally more eccentric."
Robert Walker ( talk) 13:31, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Merged article into section. Deleted obvious garbage, such as image showing Charon eclipsing Sputnik Planum. I don't know how much of the rest might be garbage. — kwami ( talk) 20:07, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
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I was measuring the relative distances and sizes of the image under List ( /info/en/?search=File:Pluto_and_Charon_system_new.png) and it seems to me that the distances in the picture don't match the distances noted in the list above it. For example if I scale the image so that Charon is 1200 pixels wide, in reality ~1208km in diameter, I would expect the distance to the barycenter to be around 17536 pixel (the same in km). But instead it is just around 11600 pixel? Only for Pluto it's correct (semi-major axis = 2035km --> distance in image ~2035 pixel). I'm measuring from the center of each body.
Now I found this image ( https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pluto_Moons_Orbit_Distance_2015.svg) used on the German Pluto wiki-page (They have the same table with all the moons there). Which even by looking at it you can see it has very different distances. But this one also seems off as I found out that it measures the semi-major axis from each moon's center to Pluto's center (which is not correct, it should be the distance from moon center to barycenter, that is the semi-major axis distance given in the list).
So what I'm saying is, that either the data in the list is wrong, or the image (in which case it should probably be removed or replaced by a correct version), or am I not understanding something correctly? 79.218.21.163 ( talk) 01:11, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
An interesting paper! Double sharp ( talk) 14:27, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
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