Montana Vigilantes has been listed as one of the
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please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: October 22, 2014. ( Reviewed version). |
Montana Vigilantes received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
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Nice work @ Mike:! Interesting storyline overlooked until now. A few suggestions:
More later.-- MONGO 15:56, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Mike...I'm too vested in the editing due to some copyediting I have done so I can't do the GAN, but I did post some clarification and cite needed templates on the page. Just a few other points...
" Historical revisionism" is a neutral term, but the way you use it to describe the theories about Plummer appears to claim that theory is Historical revisionism (negationism) - a distorted view that is fringe to the point of lacking legitimacy (fringe as in alien abductions or something). If you want to tweak the section to be more neutral, then the former term would fit, but as it sits, then this article - and the "multiple reliable sources" (?) you note, use it in the sense of the latter. (No, I am not arguing that Plummer was innocent) I'm explaining that if it's a legitimate, if minority view, then discuss it neutrally; if it's a truly fringe theory, then arguably, it should have MORE on why it's not legitimate, but what I see is mostly the reliable sources saying, "we don't like it." with insufficient analysis of why. Montanabw (talk) 22:03, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
While there are similar roots, the cattle industry situation is rather distinct from the mining camps and cities.Dillon would disagree. In the 1880s, cattle represented wealth, the open range was insecure, and there was a distinct lack of a justice system. These are the exact same conditions spawning vigilantes that prevailed in the gold camps--gold (wealth), insecure transportation, and lack of a justice system--in 1863-64 and 1865-70. Alder Gulch and Helena were distinct instances of vigilante committees as WERE Stuart's Stranglers as Montana Vigilantes (1884) in the territorial period. Splitting it out represents a classic WP:CFORK unless we choose to treat each vigilance committee with a separate article and trash this one. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 11:01, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
And frankly, as the child of two generations of cattle breeders, your "I know everything because I read the latest book" tone really is starting to piss me off. Historians from New York or California or wherever the ivory tower is may not have always been able to confirm stories I have heard since childhood (as no one published them in the newspapers of the seven biggest Montana cities), and they also may have drawn some connections with the benefit of microfilm and the internet allowing them to gather multiple sources (for which I will grant a nod), but at the end of the day, they are armchair quarterbacks and their accounts need to be tempered with a little common sense and local understanding; I'm most apt to trust the material I am seeing come out of the Montana Historical Society in many cases, as those folks are on the ground where it happened. Montanabw (talk) 08:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: KingJeff1970 ( talk · contribs) 00:42, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm going to take on this review ASAP.-- KingJeff1970 ( talk) 00:42, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
This article is well-developed and close to meeting all the good article criteria. A few improvements explained below need to be completed, therefore the article is being put on hold for 1-2 weeks.
Also, and important to the good article criteria, your work to count the victims of vigilante justice yourself strikes me as original research.occurs unless it was the sentence in the lead that is now cited. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 19:31, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Jeff, good review, will work on this over the weekend. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 13:03, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm satisfied with the numerous adjustments and improvements made by Mike and others. I'm going to pass this article as meeting the Wikipedia:Good article criteria. Congratulations! And thanks for your patience and responsive work over the past couple weeks.-- KingJeff1970 ( talk) 20:28, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Took a few shots of the alleged hanging tree, locally famous, over by Clancy, Montana. Ellen Baumler at MHS says there are no documented hangings in Jefferson County, but this tree has long been claimed by locals to have been a site used by the vigilantes. Adding it in hopes it helps. Also digging through my dad's stuff found a small book titled "Vigilantes Days and Ways" that contains a bunch of Masonic rituals and such, some printed in code... sound of interest to anyone here? Montanabw (talk) 00:26, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Mike Cline...any plans to take the article to FAC?-- MONGO 05:02, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
Montana Vigilantes has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: October 22, 2014. ( Reviewed version). |
Montana Vigilantes received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Toolbox |
---|
Nice work @ Mike:! Interesting storyline overlooked until now. A few suggestions:
More later.-- MONGO 15:56, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Mike...I'm too vested in the editing due to some copyediting I have done so I can't do the GAN, but I did post some clarification and cite needed templates on the page. Just a few other points...
" Historical revisionism" is a neutral term, but the way you use it to describe the theories about Plummer appears to claim that theory is Historical revisionism (negationism) - a distorted view that is fringe to the point of lacking legitimacy (fringe as in alien abductions or something). If you want to tweak the section to be more neutral, then the former term would fit, but as it sits, then this article - and the "multiple reliable sources" (?) you note, use it in the sense of the latter. (No, I am not arguing that Plummer was innocent) I'm explaining that if it's a legitimate, if minority view, then discuss it neutrally; if it's a truly fringe theory, then arguably, it should have MORE on why it's not legitimate, but what I see is mostly the reliable sources saying, "we don't like it." with insufficient analysis of why. Montanabw (talk) 22:03, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
While there are similar roots, the cattle industry situation is rather distinct from the mining camps and cities.Dillon would disagree. In the 1880s, cattle represented wealth, the open range was insecure, and there was a distinct lack of a justice system. These are the exact same conditions spawning vigilantes that prevailed in the gold camps--gold (wealth), insecure transportation, and lack of a justice system--in 1863-64 and 1865-70. Alder Gulch and Helena were distinct instances of vigilante committees as WERE Stuart's Stranglers as Montana Vigilantes (1884) in the territorial period. Splitting it out represents a classic WP:CFORK unless we choose to treat each vigilance committee with a separate article and trash this one. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 11:01, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
And frankly, as the child of two generations of cattle breeders, your "I know everything because I read the latest book" tone really is starting to piss me off. Historians from New York or California or wherever the ivory tower is may not have always been able to confirm stories I have heard since childhood (as no one published them in the newspapers of the seven biggest Montana cities), and they also may have drawn some connections with the benefit of microfilm and the internet allowing them to gather multiple sources (for which I will grant a nod), but at the end of the day, they are armchair quarterbacks and their accounts need to be tempered with a little common sense and local understanding; I'm most apt to trust the material I am seeing come out of the Montana Historical Society in many cases, as those folks are on the ground where it happened. Montanabw (talk) 08:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: KingJeff1970 ( talk · contribs) 00:42, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm going to take on this review ASAP.-- KingJeff1970 ( talk) 00:42, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
This article is well-developed and close to meeting all the good article criteria. A few improvements explained below need to be completed, therefore the article is being put on hold for 1-2 weeks.
Also, and important to the good article criteria, your work to count the victims of vigilante justice yourself strikes me as original research.occurs unless it was the sentence in the lead that is now cited. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 19:31, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Jeff, good review, will work on this over the weekend. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 13:03, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm satisfied with the numerous adjustments and improvements made by Mike and others. I'm going to pass this article as meeting the Wikipedia:Good article criteria. Congratulations! And thanks for your patience and responsive work over the past couple weeks.-- KingJeff1970 ( talk) 20:28, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Took a few shots of the alleged hanging tree, locally famous, over by Clancy, Montana. Ellen Baumler at MHS says there are no documented hangings in Jefferson County, but this tree has long been claimed by locals to have been a site used by the vigilantes. Adding it in hopes it helps. Also digging through my dad's stuff found a small book titled "Vigilantes Days and Ways" that contains a bunch of Masonic rituals and such, some printed in code... sound of interest to anyone here? Montanabw (talk) 00:26, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Mike Cline...any plans to take the article to FAC?-- MONGO 05:02, 4 April 2015 (UTC)