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Cann somebody make this article so that anyone who does not have a backround in quantum theory and advanced math can understand it? Unfortunatly this goes for many science-related articles. They need to stop using terms that would only be known by people who probably already know the theory.
-- Lophoole 00:42, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I've simplified many math/science articles, putting them into laymen's terms, only to see my changes redacted. It's an unfortunate aspect of Wikipedia: technicality in math/science articles trumps readability, and the concept of 'redundancy' varies widely (one person's 'redundancy' is another person's clarity).
Br77rino ( talk) 00:27, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm currently studying this in Organic Chem II, and what we have here reads like the Voynich Manuscript. I guarantee this is useful to absolutely _nobody_ who doesn't already consider it elementary. My professor doesn't even know what the heck is going on on this page. If had any idea how to start, I'd do it myself. 68.196.9.112 ( talk) 03:07, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Here is a little wishlist I have...maybe someone has an idea of how to implement this:
Does this article have anything to add to molecular orbital?, candidate for merge in my view, what you are looking for in a qualititative way is represented in MO diagram but this article fails to provide a link. Also see my discussion with Smokefoot on this topic here V8rik 18:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't think the article needs to be merged, but as it it right now it says much about the early history of the theory but very little about the theory itself. The details about the MO theory are scattered in many articles; perhaps this one could serve as a starting point in the future, but in any case it would help to link to all of the relevant articles. Some examples of articles containing what you would find in a book about MO theory:
A good book on the topic, although a bit dated now, is Ab Initio Molecular Orbital Theory by Warren J. Hehre, Leo Radom, P. V. Schleyer, and John Pople. Wiley, 1986. Itub 14:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
There is a lot of good work in the timeline, but most of if it is part of the early history of all of quantum mechanics, atomic physics, and nuclear physics. I would probably start the timeline of MO theory around 1926 and move the rest to another article on the history of quantum mechanics, but maybe that's just me. :) Itub 18:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Itub's 8 January contribution at the top of what I have just made a new section. There is no need for history before 1926 as MO theory is quite meaningless without the Schrodinger equation. Maybe it can go somewhere else. A time line that deals with MO and VB as this one does, should perhaps go in quantum chemistry. It should not be here, as VB and MO theories are different. They are similar only in that they are both approximate solutions of the Schrodinger equation, and this article is about the MO approximation, not both. I suggest we have already got the history in its own section so the timeline table should go. It could be usefull in a broader "History of XXX" article. but I'm not sure what "XXX" should be. -- Bduke 03:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
This idea should probably be somewhere too...just to register the idea for now. -- HappyCamper 12:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello - we used to have this image on the article, but I checked the actual orbitals of this Methane, and they do not look too much like this, so I've removed it for now until we can find a better replacement. -- HappyCamper 19:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
1. In text \psi and \chi are small Greek, as is usual for orbitals (one-electron functions). In equation capital Greek is used:
Why?
2. What is lower limit m? -- P.wormer 00:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
You are right. I've fixed it. -- Bduke 00:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
The following is found in the overview and is garbage:"Conversely, an antibonding orbital will more closely resemble the higher energy atomic basis.[7] Electrons in non-bonding orbitals tend to be in deep orbitals (nearly atomic orbitals) associated almost entirely with one nucleus or the other, and thus they spend equal time within as they do between nuclei. These electrons neither contribute to nor detract from bond strength and thus are best described as lone pairs." A lone pair is in the nucleus??? It is "deep" ??? the AB-Orbital resembles the basis?? Garbage! Abitslow ( talk) 20:25, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Came here to link to this article, from other applied wikpedia articles on reactivity. Simply cannot use the article in the state that it is in. All the touchups, technically and otherwise, are lipstick on a pig. Paste this into Word, do a word count, and then go look for a comparable book chapter or review article of similar length and see how the topic is covered in that professional venue. Then come back here and see if there is anything to salvage. Bottom line, I concur with the Feb 2014 tag that the very large block of narrowly and naively sourced material added in Nov 2013 was without proper depth of understanding or scope for it to be done well. This article needs a major overhaul, and we cannot link to it, or recommend it, until such is done. Le Prof Leprof 7272 ( talk) 07:36, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
The claim: "If the electrons tend to be present in a molecular orbital in which they spend more time elsewhere than between the nuclei, the orbital will function as an anti-bonding orbital and will actually weaken the bond." seems wrong to me. For example, the "pi" bonds in benzene have zero probability density on the line connecting the carbon atoms, but are not anti-bonding. Could an expert fix this, or if it's correct explain it better? Ma-Ma-Max Headroom ( talk) 20:11, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
I have removed the last paragraph added by an anon editor. It is entirely speculation based on articles which do not appear to have been properly refereed. It is not appropriate in this article at this time, but may be later if it is supported by other papers that are refereed. -- Bduke ( talk) 21:57, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi all, I have proposed merging the problematic article Electronic structure into Electronic band structure. That gathered little discussion and did not pass. A new proposal was put forward to merge the page here instead. Please leave a comment if you have an opinion on the merger or the future of the Electronic structure article in general. The discussion link is on Electronic band structure still, discuss here. Thank you. Footlessmouse ( talk) 22:10, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
Cann somebody make this article so that anyone who does not have a backround in quantum theory and advanced math can understand it? Unfortunatly this goes for many science-related articles. They need to stop using terms that would only be known by people who probably already know the theory.
-- Lophoole 00:42, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I've simplified many math/science articles, putting them into laymen's terms, only to see my changes redacted. It's an unfortunate aspect of Wikipedia: technicality in math/science articles trumps readability, and the concept of 'redundancy' varies widely (one person's 'redundancy' is another person's clarity).
Br77rino ( talk) 00:27, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm currently studying this in Organic Chem II, and what we have here reads like the Voynich Manuscript. I guarantee this is useful to absolutely _nobody_ who doesn't already consider it elementary. My professor doesn't even know what the heck is going on on this page. If had any idea how to start, I'd do it myself. 68.196.9.112 ( talk) 03:07, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Here is a little wishlist I have...maybe someone has an idea of how to implement this:
Does this article have anything to add to molecular orbital?, candidate for merge in my view, what you are looking for in a qualititative way is represented in MO diagram but this article fails to provide a link. Also see my discussion with Smokefoot on this topic here V8rik 18:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't think the article needs to be merged, but as it it right now it says much about the early history of the theory but very little about the theory itself. The details about the MO theory are scattered in many articles; perhaps this one could serve as a starting point in the future, but in any case it would help to link to all of the relevant articles. Some examples of articles containing what you would find in a book about MO theory:
A good book on the topic, although a bit dated now, is Ab Initio Molecular Orbital Theory by Warren J. Hehre, Leo Radom, P. V. Schleyer, and John Pople. Wiley, 1986. Itub 14:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
There is a lot of good work in the timeline, but most of if it is part of the early history of all of quantum mechanics, atomic physics, and nuclear physics. I would probably start the timeline of MO theory around 1926 and move the rest to another article on the history of quantum mechanics, but maybe that's just me. :) Itub 18:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Itub's 8 January contribution at the top of what I have just made a new section. There is no need for history before 1926 as MO theory is quite meaningless without the Schrodinger equation. Maybe it can go somewhere else. A time line that deals with MO and VB as this one does, should perhaps go in quantum chemistry. It should not be here, as VB and MO theories are different. They are similar only in that they are both approximate solutions of the Schrodinger equation, and this article is about the MO approximation, not both. I suggest we have already got the history in its own section so the timeline table should go. It could be usefull in a broader "History of XXX" article. but I'm not sure what "XXX" should be. -- Bduke 03:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
This idea should probably be somewhere too...just to register the idea for now. -- HappyCamper 12:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello - we used to have this image on the article, but I checked the actual orbitals of this Methane, and they do not look too much like this, so I've removed it for now until we can find a better replacement. -- HappyCamper 19:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
1. In text \psi and \chi are small Greek, as is usual for orbitals (one-electron functions). In equation capital Greek is used:
Why?
2. What is lower limit m? -- P.wormer 00:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
You are right. I've fixed it. -- Bduke 00:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
The following is found in the overview and is garbage:"Conversely, an antibonding orbital will more closely resemble the higher energy atomic basis.[7] Electrons in non-bonding orbitals tend to be in deep orbitals (nearly atomic orbitals) associated almost entirely with one nucleus or the other, and thus they spend equal time within as they do between nuclei. These electrons neither contribute to nor detract from bond strength and thus are best described as lone pairs." A lone pair is in the nucleus??? It is "deep" ??? the AB-Orbital resembles the basis?? Garbage! Abitslow ( talk) 20:25, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Came here to link to this article, from other applied wikpedia articles on reactivity. Simply cannot use the article in the state that it is in. All the touchups, technically and otherwise, are lipstick on a pig. Paste this into Word, do a word count, and then go look for a comparable book chapter or review article of similar length and see how the topic is covered in that professional venue. Then come back here and see if there is anything to salvage. Bottom line, I concur with the Feb 2014 tag that the very large block of narrowly and naively sourced material added in Nov 2013 was without proper depth of understanding or scope for it to be done well. This article needs a major overhaul, and we cannot link to it, or recommend it, until such is done. Le Prof Leprof 7272 ( talk) 07:36, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
The claim: "If the electrons tend to be present in a molecular orbital in which they spend more time elsewhere than between the nuclei, the orbital will function as an anti-bonding orbital and will actually weaken the bond." seems wrong to me. For example, the "pi" bonds in benzene have zero probability density on the line connecting the carbon atoms, but are not anti-bonding. Could an expert fix this, or if it's correct explain it better? Ma-Ma-Max Headroom ( talk) 20:11, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
I have removed the last paragraph added by an anon editor. It is entirely speculation based on articles which do not appear to have been properly refereed. It is not appropriate in this article at this time, but may be later if it is supported by other papers that are refereed. -- Bduke ( talk) 21:57, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi all, I have proposed merging the problematic article Electronic structure into Electronic band structure. That gathered little discussion and did not pass. A new proposal was put forward to merge the page here instead. Please leave a comment if you have an opinion on the merger or the future of the Electronic structure article in general. The discussion link is on Electronic band structure still, discuss here. Thank you. Footlessmouse ( talk) 22:10, 10 October 2020 (UTC)