This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mitt Romney 2008 presidential campaign article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
no archives yet ( create) |
I am not and have never been a big fan of criticism sections. I would like to integrate the section into the article. I understand there has been discussion of this above but I think it can be done in a very npov way, as some of the "criticism" isn't really criticism. What do other people think? Turtlescrubber 16:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Marriott has also been criticized in the past for allowing alcohol in hotels even though he himself doesn't drink. His reply was that if a hotel wants to stay in business, it needs to sell drinks. (Apparently, drinks are high markup... I'm assuming that porn is even more cost beneficial, and therefore crucial to a competitive edge.) Rawkcuf 17:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)Rawkcuf.
This makes much more sense
http://media.gallup.com/POLL/Releases/pr070817bi.gif myclob 14:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
To address the concerns some of you have over the use of linear regressions, I've added links to sites that summarize polling data in a similar manner, but use different methods for plotting averages. I will keep maintaining the charts on this site, since it includes more data than the images in the attached links. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, etc. are welcome. This example is from the Republican California primary section, but similar links appear on this page. [2] -- Robapalooza 00:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I know that it isn't common to include a section on campaign staff/advisors, but I think that in the light of recent developments (ie: Carl Rove, Harriet Miers, Michael Brown etc.) there is a growing concern over a candidate's ability to choose staffmembers. Some of these advisors are potential cabinet members should the candidate be elected. I am proposing the inclusion of prominent staff/advisors (and a short bio) to all candidates' campaign entries in order to help voters better understand each candidates' ability to judge character. I believe that attention is inordinately focussed on individual candidates, when in fact, the major influence on any new administration will be in the advisors surrounding the new president. Your input would be greatly appreciated. ----Rawkcuf. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rawkcuf ( talk • contribs) 03:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I realize I am new here, but WP:BLP would seem to indicate that the Blackwater section merits removal. There are no secondary sources cited to indicate that there is a "controversy" here, and BLP specifically warns against "claims that rely on guilt by association". Unless a third party citation can be found which notes this controversy, it should stay removed.
I have also removed the hunting section on similar grounds. DJ Creamity Oh Yeah! 17:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
This is an article about the campaign. I would agree with you if you were referring to the biography, but this is different. The mention of Cofer Black's qualifications as advisor to the campaign do not in any way conflict with WP:BLP. I believe there is need for this issue to be discussed, a consensus to be reached before a decision should be made. In order to facilitate that discussion, I would appreciate your not erasing my comments. I recognise your right to your opinion, but until a consensus has been reached, I would recommend you not rush to erase my comments on this discussion page. I'm not certain what the problem is regarding 'guilt by association', but for people who look to a candidate who is hard on terror, you will find one in Romney since his choice of staff speaks volumes. It is neither positive or negative it is simply a fact.
222.2.98.43 (
talk)
16:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC) Rawkcuf.
FYI, there is a Request for Comments occurring right now at the main Mitt Romney article, for anyone who may be interested. The subject is Romney's four polygamous great-grandparents. Ferrylodge 05:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The entry under the "McCain's Response to Romney" section needs some desperate TLC.
READ:
In addition to Romney's hunting statements, McCain's reply also referenced reports that a landscaping company Romney had hired illegal Guatemalan immigrants to do the work. It is important to note, that Romney said he didn't ask them what their legal status was for fear of a lawsuit. He said that you don't just go up and ask things like that. He said it while at the Sept. 5th Republican debate. At the second debate, in South Carolina, McCain said he hadn't changed his views "because of the different offices that I may be running for."
I can even imagine a fifth grader writing something better, but I will leave it to you guys to decide.
RRM MBA ( talk) 20:00, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay, so.. there's been a rather lengthy discussion on User talk:Qworty#Mitt Romney about the changing of the "Religious beliefs" section to include the idea that Romney's beliefs have changed. The sources added by Qworty don't actually say that his beliefs changed, only that his opinion on governmental involvement has changed. This issue sort of dips into a question of WP:OR and WP:SYN, and I believe that this article should not get involved in this. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 15:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I find this section definitely riddled with NPOV issues...The word 'flip flopped' NEVER ABSOLUTELY NEVER belongs in an encyclopedia. Very negative connotation there. Also, the rest of the section is merely a quote, and a statement that there was a question from a snowman. There wasn't much notable stuff that happened at the debate itself, so I propose getting rid of the entire section, unless some thorough, NPOV analysis is done on the debate itself, and it shys away from the word Flip Flopped. Mientkiewicz5508 ( talk) 05:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I heard this morning that Mitt's dad marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. during the civil rights era. Should this be added? I also have heard that Mitt cried upon learning that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints had decied to admit black people to membership. Shouldn't this go in too? CApitol3 ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:50, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
i feel as if there has been sufficient opposition to romney to warrant an opposition section on his page. see Hillary_Rodham_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2008#Opposition and John_McCain_presidential_campaign,_2008#Opposing_forces. for a starting example, see http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/concord-monitor-not-romney/ and http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/08/opposition_to_r.html and also his continued employment of illegal immigrants to do his yardwork (this is only mentioned in the article in a john mccain quote). i am actually very surprised that this hasn't come up anywhere, since it impacts his campaign. DrIdiot ( talk) 04:36, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
If so, he should wait for a neutral third party to link his highly sought endorsement, lol. [[User:Justmeherenow|Justmeherenow] ( talk) 01:08, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
There is no source used for the $65 million raised and that it is the most raised by any Republican ever. 4th Quarter Fundraising statistics have yet to be released, so I don't even know where this information would be sourced from. The figures seem a little odd to me and unless they are sourced soon, they should be deleted. As of September of 2007, Romney had only raised $44 million [1]. I am adding "citation needed" tags to both of the statements. Rtr10 ( talk) 05:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Or have one for that matter.
The way the religion section opens up is pretty ridiculous.
Romney is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly referred to as the Mormon church). The practice of polygamy has been officially forbidden by the LDS church since 1890,[85] and Romney personally described it as "bizarre".[86]
This is a very non-sequitor opening. I'm not a fan of mormonism, but I'm pretty sure if you asked a mormon what they were about "we don't have multiple wives" would not be the first thing out of their mouths. Unless you asked "Hey, aren't you a mormon, those poeple who have multiple wives?" It just seems like a very aggressive description of Romney's religion.
I've never been more tempted to post anonymous grafiti on wiki. I wanted to change the quote of Romney from "Romney personally described [polygamny] as 'bizarre' but 'awesome'"
Liquid entropy ( talk) 19:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm very concerned that the current summary of political positions on this page is showing only the most controversial positions and statements of Mitt Romney, and is missing many of his other positions. To give a NPOV and even-handed treatment, I recommend we adopt the method used in the John McCain presidential campaign, 2008 where we don't include any summary, but just point to the main article. If there are topics that need to be addressed there, they should be addressed in that article. DavidBailey ( talk) 03:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
This text has been moved from the main article. Is it even appropriate for this article? If so, what kind of section should it be in? It probably needs rewording to be more factual and less argumentative.
My take is that back-and-forth between campaigns is probably not important enough to be placed in the main article, but I'm open to suggestions. DavidBailey ( talk) 03:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
References
Just received word that CNN is reporting that Romney has "suspended" his campaign. That is curious wording. I haven't found anything in print yet and am unable to watch TV right now to verify. Mike R ( talk) 17:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I have been an on the fence voter,today Mr Romney helped me. Al Gore congratulating him for global warming stance. I can now cross Mr Romney off my list of contenders. thank you jim walsh 55438 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.101.141 ( talk) 21:21, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2008. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:07, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 10 external links on Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2008. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=indBV102NuQWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:22, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2008. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:14, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mitt Romney 2008 presidential campaign article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
no archives yet ( create) |
I am not and have never been a big fan of criticism sections. I would like to integrate the section into the article. I understand there has been discussion of this above but I think it can be done in a very npov way, as some of the "criticism" isn't really criticism. What do other people think? Turtlescrubber 16:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Marriott has also been criticized in the past for allowing alcohol in hotels even though he himself doesn't drink. His reply was that if a hotel wants to stay in business, it needs to sell drinks. (Apparently, drinks are high markup... I'm assuming that porn is even more cost beneficial, and therefore crucial to a competitive edge.) Rawkcuf 17:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)Rawkcuf.
This makes much more sense
http://media.gallup.com/POLL/Releases/pr070817bi.gif myclob 14:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
To address the concerns some of you have over the use of linear regressions, I've added links to sites that summarize polling data in a similar manner, but use different methods for plotting averages. I will keep maintaining the charts on this site, since it includes more data than the images in the attached links. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, etc. are welcome. This example is from the Republican California primary section, but similar links appear on this page. [2] -- Robapalooza 00:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I know that it isn't common to include a section on campaign staff/advisors, but I think that in the light of recent developments (ie: Carl Rove, Harriet Miers, Michael Brown etc.) there is a growing concern over a candidate's ability to choose staffmembers. Some of these advisors are potential cabinet members should the candidate be elected. I am proposing the inclusion of prominent staff/advisors (and a short bio) to all candidates' campaign entries in order to help voters better understand each candidates' ability to judge character. I believe that attention is inordinately focussed on individual candidates, when in fact, the major influence on any new administration will be in the advisors surrounding the new president. Your input would be greatly appreciated. ----Rawkcuf. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rawkcuf ( talk • contribs) 03:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I realize I am new here, but WP:BLP would seem to indicate that the Blackwater section merits removal. There are no secondary sources cited to indicate that there is a "controversy" here, and BLP specifically warns against "claims that rely on guilt by association". Unless a third party citation can be found which notes this controversy, it should stay removed.
I have also removed the hunting section on similar grounds. DJ Creamity Oh Yeah! 17:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
This is an article about the campaign. I would agree with you if you were referring to the biography, but this is different. The mention of Cofer Black's qualifications as advisor to the campaign do not in any way conflict with WP:BLP. I believe there is need for this issue to be discussed, a consensus to be reached before a decision should be made. In order to facilitate that discussion, I would appreciate your not erasing my comments. I recognise your right to your opinion, but until a consensus has been reached, I would recommend you not rush to erase my comments on this discussion page. I'm not certain what the problem is regarding 'guilt by association', but for people who look to a candidate who is hard on terror, you will find one in Romney since his choice of staff speaks volumes. It is neither positive or negative it is simply a fact.
222.2.98.43 (
talk)
16:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC) Rawkcuf.
FYI, there is a Request for Comments occurring right now at the main Mitt Romney article, for anyone who may be interested. The subject is Romney's four polygamous great-grandparents. Ferrylodge 05:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The entry under the "McCain's Response to Romney" section needs some desperate TLC.
READ:
In addition to Romney's hunting statements, McCain's reply also referenced reports that a landscaping company Romney had hired illegal Guatemalan immigrants to do the work. It is important to note, that Romney said he didn't ask them what their legal status was for fear of a lawsuit. He said that you don't just go up and ask things like that. He said it while at the Sept. 5th Republican debate. At the second debate, in South Carolina, McCain said he hadn't changed his views "because of the different offices that I may be running for."
I can even imagine a fifth grader writing something better, but I will leave it to you guys to decide.
RRM MBA ( talk) 20:00, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay, so.. there's been a rather lengthy discussion on User talk:Qworty#Mitt Romney about the changing of the "Religious beliefs" section to include the idea that Romney's beliefs have changed. The sources added by Qworty don't actually say that his beliefs changed, only that his opinion on governmental involvement has changed. This issue sort of dips into a question of WP:OR and WP:SYN, and I believe that this article should not get involved in this. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 15:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I find this section definitely riddled with NPOV issues...The word 'flip flopped' NEVER ABSOLUTELY NEVER belongs in an encyclopedia. Very negative connotation there. Also, the rest of the section is merely a quote, and a statement that there was a question from a snowman. There wasn't much notable stuff that happened at the debate itself, so I propose getting rid of the entire section, unless some thorough, NPOV analysis is done on the debate itself, and it shys away from the word Flip Flopped. Mientkiewicz5508 ( talk) 05:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I heard this morning that Mitt's dad marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. during the civil rights era. Should this be added? I also have heard that Mitt cried upon learning that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints had decied to admit black people to membership. Shouldn't this go in too? CApitol3 ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:50, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
i feel as if there has been sufficient opposition to romney to warrant an opposition section on his page. see Hillary_Rodham_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2008#Opposition and John_McCain_presidential_campaign,_2008#Opposing_forces. for a starting example, see http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/concord-monitor-not-romney/ and http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/08/opposition_to_r.html and also his continued employment of illegal immigrants to do his yardwork (this is only mentioned in the article in a john mccain quote). i am actually very surprised that this hasn't come up anywhere, since it impacts his campaign. DrIdiot ( talk) 04:36, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
If so, he should wait for a neutral third party to link his highly sought endorsement, lol. [[User:Justmeherenow|Justmeherenow] ( talk) 01:08, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
There is no source used for the $65 million raised and that it is the most raised by any Republican ever. 4th Quarter Fundraising statistics have yet to be released, so I don't even know where this information would be sourced from. The figures seem a little odd to me and unless they are sourced soon, they should be deleted. As of September of 2007, Romney had only raised $44 million [1]. I am adding "citation needed" tags to both of the statements. Rtr10 ( talk) 05:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Or have one for that matter.
The way the religion section opens up is pretty ridiculous.
Romney is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly referred to as the Mormon church). The practice of polygamy has been officially forbidden by the LDS church since 1890,[85] and Romney personally described it as "bizarre".[86]
This is a very non-sequitor opening. I'm not a fan of mormonism, but I'm pretty sure if you asked a mormon what they were about "we don't have multiple wives" would not be the first thing out of their mouths. Unless you asked "Hey, aren't you a mormon, those poeple who have multiple wives?" It just seems like a very aggressive description of Romney's religion.
I've never been more tempted to post anonymous grafiti on wiki. I wanted to change the quote of Romney from "Romney personally described [polygamny] as 'bizarre' but 'awesome'"
Liquid entropy ( talk) 19:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm very concerned that the current summary of political positions on this page is showing only the most controversial positions and statements of Mitt Romney, and is missing many of his other positions. To give a NPOV and even-handed treatment, I recommend we adopt the method used in the John McCain presidential campaign, 2008 where we don't include any summary, but just point to the main article. If there are topics that need to be addressed there, they should be addressed in that article. DavidBailey ( talk) 03:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
This text has been moved from the main article. Is it even appropriate for this article? If so, what kind of section should it be in? It probably needs rewording to be more factual and less argumentative.
My take is that back-and-forth between campaigns is probably not important enough to be placed in the main article, but I'm open to suggestions. DavidBailey ( talk) 03:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
References
Just received word that CNN is reporting that Romney has "suspended" his campaign. That is curious wording. I haven't found anything in print yet and am unable to watch TV right now to verify. Mike R ( talk) 17:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I have been an on the fence voter,today Mr Romney helped me. Al Gore congratulating him for global warming stance. I can now cross Mr Romney off my list of contenders. thank you jim walsh 55438 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.101.141 ( talk) 21:21, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2008. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:07, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 10 external links on Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2008. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=indBV102NuQWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:22, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2008. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:14, 20 September 2017 (UTC)