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Your article states: "He attended public elementary schools[14] until the seventh grade, when he began commuting to Cranbrook School in Bloomfield Hills, a traditional private boys preparatory school where he was the lone Mormon and where many students came from backgrounds even more privileged then he.
Although there is a boys middle school, there is also a girl's middle school as well. The school is not a private boys preparatory school, it is overall a co-ed institution.
http://schools.cranbrook.edu/podium/default.aspx?t=107992 Mk12483 ( talk) 14:23, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 21:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)Willard Mitt Romney entered Cranbrook in the fall of 1959 at age 12 (grade seven). There was no middle school at the time, and he attended Cranbrook School Brookside for grades seven and eight. He entered the upper school (Cranbrook School) in the fall of 1961, and graduated on June 12, 1965 at the age of 18. All of his siblings likewise attended and graduated from the school including Lynn Romney in 1953 (Kingswood), Jane Romney in 1956 (Kingswood), and Scott Romney in 1959 (Cranbrook).
Romney met his future wife, Ann Davies, while he was a senior and she was a sophomore. Ann Davies graduated from Kingswood School Cranbrook in 1967.
...
Romney was apparently very active in campus life. According to his senior yearbook, his activities included: “Cross Country, hockey manager, Glee Club, Pre-Med Club, Church Cabinet, The Forum, Pep Club, Blue Key Club, American Field Service, World Affairs Seminar, Speculator’s Club, Homecoming Committee chair, assistant editor of the yearbook, ‘The Brook,’ and Inter-House Council Form 6 Representative from Stevens Hall.
--- LINK
Is [1] proper in this BLP?
As I read it, it catenates claims in a manner which I think might well be untoward, and includes material and claims which more aptly belong in the articles on Mormonism than on the BLP here - that a person is a member of a religion does not automatically make claims about the religion proper in his BLP any more than, say, adding long claims about contraception as a Catholic teaching belong automatically in every Catholic politician's biography. Or adding long explanations about "jihad" to every Muslim politician's biography. We should stick strictly to what is directly atributable to the politician or other subject.
And I would further suggest the concept of giving claims with the intent of having them "dovetail" is precisely what Wikipedia deprecates in BLPs. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 01:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Maybe its just me, but these seem too close, and verge on copyvio, per WP:PARAPHRASE, please correct me if I am wrong.
Adding a few words ("individual Mormon", "in France"), and substituting "he" for "Romney", and "gain" for "win" without substantially altering the original sentence structure is not proper paraphrasing. — GabeMc ( talk) 01:50, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
GabeMc, you've diminished the quality of parts of this article by your dozens of edits that seek to avoid "overuse of name" and that replace "Romney" with "he". Where do you get the idea that this is necessary? What MoS guideline is informing you on this? You're doing this to an extreme, such as having a whole section start off with nothing but "He"s and not having "Romney" appear until the second paragraph.
Most professional writing uses "Romney" all the time. Take a look at this WaPo story that is familiar to all of us. Take a look at this NYT story. Take a look at this New Yorker piece. Take a look at any page of the Kranish-Helman book. "Romney" is used frequently in all of these. So where are you coming from on this? Wasted Time R ( talk) 10:40, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Case in point here:
Romney, who was not at fault in the accident,[nb 6] became co-acting president of a mission demoralized and disorganized by the May civil disturbances and by the car accident.[35] Romney rallied and motivated the others and they met an ambitious goal of 200 baptisms for the year, the most for the mission in a decade.[35] By the end of his stint in December 1968, Romney was overseeing the work of 175 fellow members.[30][38] Romney developed a lifelong affection for France and its people, and speaks French.[40]
Do we really need to use "Romney", four times in four sentences? — GabeMc ( talk) 22:44, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Another:
The Romneys' first son, Taggart, was born in 1970[44] while the Romneys were undergraduates at Brigham Young[50] and living in a basement apartment.[30][41] Ann subsequently gave birth to Matt (1971), Josh (1975), Ben (1978), and Craig (1981).[44] Ann Romney's work as a homemaker would enable her husband to pursue his career.[51]
this should be:
The Romneys' first son, Taggart, was born in 1970[44] while the they were undergraduates at Brigham Young[50] and living in a basement apartment.[30][41] Ann subsequently gave birth to Matt (1971), Josh (1975), Ben (1978), and Craig (1981).[44] Her work as a homemaker would enable her husband to pursue his career.[51]
— GabeMc ( talk) 22:50, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Another:
Romney still wanted to pursue a business path, but his father, by now serving in President Richard Nixon's cabinet as U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, advised that a law degree would be valuable.[52][53] Thus Romney became one of only fifteen students to enroll at the recently created joint Juris Doctor/Master of Business Administration four-year program coordinated between Harvard Law School and Harvard Business School.[54] Fellow students considered Romney guilelessly optimistic, noting his solid work ethic and buttoned-down demeanor and appearance.[54][55]
Three uses of "Romney" within three sentences is poor prose. — GabeMc ( talk) 23:04, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Talk:Republican Party presidential primaries, 2012#Merging all U.S. states presidential primary and election articles into one article for each state. The proposal is to merge all articles on different state primaries (both democratic and republican) and the articles on the presidential election (where such exist) in to one single article for each state. See United States presidential election in New Hampshire, 2008 It is possible to see how the 2008 and 2012 articles will look like if this large merges was completed. This issue have been discussed for a month on this talkpage without a clear consensus and the merge proposal is so massive that it would be good to get a wide range of editors to comment on it.
Jack Bornholm (
talk)
17:01, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Which of his political campaigns has he not "helped fund"? — GabeMc ( talk) 22:38, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Comment I think it's rather trivial information for his bio, when specific articles exist. - Xcal68 ( talk) 11:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
"He continued to work hard; having grown up in Michigan rather than the more insular Utah world, Romney was better able to interact with the French than other missionaries."[35][11]
1) Is this implying that people in Utah do not work as hard as people in Michigan? 2) What does growing up in Michigan have to do with interacting with the French? — GabeMc ( talk) 00:32, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
--offa top o my head I tippetytaphas worked on every political race Romney's been involved in, including his unsuccessful Senate run against Ted Kennedy in 1994. White helped Romney turn around the Olympic Games in Salt Lake City and headed the transition team when Romney was elected governor in 2002. The 2008 cycle found White in the cockpit of Romney's first national effort, even if campaign manager Beth Myers was flying the plane. He will be a significant presence in any 2012 effort
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 21:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 23:31, 24 May 2012 (UTC)... mister Bain asked R to helm the start-up, tapping so'n'so, so'n'no and so'n'so as major partners and as management team, mssrs. X, Y, Z, and Bob White: [Edited:
also a minor partner, who was to become, long term, Romney's most trusted lieutenant/confidante and friend].
.....'sec'y of state' of any romney 'kitchen cabinet'?:
[...Former ]vice president[...]of Walden Media [,...Peter G. ]Flaherty[ II], former Boston Herald State House reporter Fehrnstrom, and Myers are now Romney’s closest longtime aides, along with Robert F. White. A volunteer, White is a friend of Romney’s[...].
--- Ronald Kessler, March 12, 2012 link
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 00:46, 26 May 2012 (UTC)Myers['...]political consulting group —[...]with Flaherty and Eric "Etch A Sketch" Fehrnstrom[ — ...]along with Romney's old buddy Bob White, compose what is widely considered to be Romney's closest circle of nonfamilial advisers.
--- NYMag, May 9, 2012
I’m on my fifth ‘once in a lifetime opportunity’ with Mitt.---WHITE ( in the WaPo&NYT)
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 18:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
"In July 1966, he left for a thirty-month stay in France as a Mormon missionary,[14][29][30]"
When the Kranish-Helman book came out, I thought about changing as many article sources to it as I could. I eventually decided not to, because
On the other hand, like you say, it would shorten the citing. Wasted Time R ( talk) 10:25, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
As far as claiming there is no room for improvement in the article's sourcing, how about this sentence: "Romney was born at Harper Hospital in Detroit, Michigan,[1] the youngest child of George W. Romney, a self-made man who by 1948 had become an automobile executive, and Lenore Romney (née LaFount), an aspiring actress turned homemaker.[2][3][4]"
[1] covers Mitt's birth hospital, [2] covers Lenore's acting, and [3] covers George Romney's career. Why is there a need for [ 4], which seems to do nothing but reinforce that Geo Romney was succsessful, but is that contentious so as to require two cites? Does [4] source info not already covered in [3]? — GabeMc ( talk) 22:45, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I think we should mention in the heritage section that Mitt is a decendant of Anne Hutchinson. Any objections? — GabeMc ( talk) 02:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Some of the protestations of unencyclopedic and trivial about various sections of this article are highly selective, considering that the article already tells us that Romney was on the cross-country team, that he read automotive trade magazines as a boy, that he donated money earned from a book he authored to charity, that he was married at his home in Bloomfield Hills, and even the name of the hospital where he was born. GabeMc, it might be worth including mention of Anne Hutchinson in the Romney family article, where it will probably be less contested, assuming you have strong enough sources. Dezastru ( talk) 17:02, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
It's already in a related article:
Pratt family ... Jared Pratt...married 1799 to Charity Dickinson, a descendant of Anne Hutchinson and was father of Parley P. Pratt and Orson Pratt.--- WIKIPEDIA
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 17:57, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Let's take another look at the 2002 Winter Olympics budget.
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One issue is what was the cost to taxpayers of holding the Olympics - specifically, what was the amount of federal funding. Recent versions of the article stated that the federal government contributed $382 million for the Games, apart from another $1+ billion for indirect costs. The problem with that $382 million figure is that it is much lower than the approximately $600 million Romney himself states in his book on his experience organizing the Olympics, Turnaround, originally published in 2004. It is not clear in the reporting of the Boston Globe piece that quotes $382 million exactly where they got that figure from. Presumably, it comes from the Government Accountability Office report published in November 2001 (GAO-02-140), which put the federal direct expenditures at about $324 million (quoted in the LA Times article), not including additional funds required for security related to the the September 11 attacks. Adding in funds for September 11-related security presumably would bump the figure up to the vicinity of $382 million.
However, the November 2001 GAO report was based on figures generated prior to July 31, 2001. In other words, the $324 million base figure is based on estimates made 6 months before the Games were held. Projects of this magnitude, involving this amount of complexity, never run under budget, and almost never run on budget, so it takes a huge leap of faith to expect that the $324 million estimated in the summer of 2001 is what the final cost actually turned out to be. To my knowledge, no further federal audit was ever conducted (or at least none that was made available to the general public). The Salt Lake Organizing Committee did hold news conferences to announce a predicted surplus of $55 million in April 2002 and a revision of that to more than $100 million in a final report in September 2002; but the news reports from the press conferences made no mention of the final federal costs. (Does anyone have access to the published final report?) The $324 million base estimate also did not include personnel costs. So why should the GAO estimate made 6 months prior to the Games be given equal weight to what Romney, President and CEO, published more than a year after the Games were held in a book about his experience organizing the Games? If anyone knew what the federal costs were, it should have been Romney.
I also don't understand why Romney's book about organizing the Games cannot be taken as a reliable source on the narrow subject of what the federal contribution to the Games was. (After all, the GAO report itself is largely based on the claims of the SLOC, and Romney was chair of the SLOC during the period of interest.) Dezastru ( talk) 08:07, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Collect has removed this text: "His omnipresence irked those who thought he was taking too much of the credit for the success, had exaggerated the state of initial distress, or was primarily looking to improve his own image.[115][120]" on the grounds rm claims not in any way in source - and claim sourced used for entirely unsupported claim not in source - WP:BLP and WP:V still apply)
On the contrary, these sources directly support this text. For example:
From fn 115 (NYT story):
From fn 120 (BG story):
Each of the points of the text – omnipresence, exaggeration of problem, taking too much credit, working towards his image – is directly borne out in these clips from these stories. BLP does not mean we cannot describe negative views of a subject. The rest of this section is full of positive views of Romney's Olympics performance. There is nothing wrong with this text or its sourcing, and I have restored it. Wasted Time R ( talk) 14:34, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
The claim was made in a revert that there was consensus to include the "great white hope" trivia. Reading this section shows me that no such consensus was reached.
Collect (
talk)
23:31, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
The article currently reads: "In March of his senior year, he began dating Ann Davies, two years his younger,"
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Romney's mission in France, one that lasted more than 30 months, came during the Viet Nam War. In that Romney asked for and received numerous student deferments before leaving for France, he was able, as a result of the deferments and trip abroad, to evade the U.S. draft, hence he did not serve, as he did not join nor was he drafted. All four of Romney's brothers likewise evaded the draft and military service.
71.50.79.143 ( talk) 05:03, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Romney is no longer the presumptive nominee. He IS the nominee. CBS, the Huffington Post, and good old Fox are all reporting that he is now the nominee. Fox now says that he can "drop presumptive from his title." Is he the nominee or should presumptive stay? Andrewrp Tally-ho! 03:27, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
What State would he be representing as Presidential Candidate.
The Constitution requires that President and Vice-President have to be from different states. So a would-be President has to identify his State.
What is his state? 68.48.204.94 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:04, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
What state would Mitt Romney run under? Look under his picture at Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012 for the answer you already know. Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 12:36, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
I think I know the answer to this question already, but I'll ask here to be sure. Can we Gimp/Photoshop out the white "fog" in the upper left and right corners of the pic, or is that frowned upon? — GabeMc ( talk) 03:45, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
--
Amadscientist (
talk)
22:49, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
2002 gubernatorial campaign Main article: Massachusetts gubernatorial election, 2002 In 2002, Republican Acting Governor Jane Swift's administration was plagued by political missteps and personal scandals.[135] Many Republicans viewed her as a liability and considered her unable to win a general election.[139] Prominent party figures – as well as the White House – wanted Romney to run for governor,[137][140] and the opportunity appealed to him for its national visibility.[141] One poll taken at that time showed Republicans favoring Romney over Swift by more than 50 percentage points.[142] On March 19, 2002, Swift announced she would not seek her party's nomination, and hours later Romney declared his candidacy,[142] for which would face no opposition in the primary.[143]
The last sentence should say "for which he would face no opposition in the primary.[143] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.107.51 ( talk) 14:00, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Some of the wording ought to be changed in the description of his Latter Day Saint mission in France. Rather than saying that he was "promoted" to be a zone leader, it should be "assigned." Life as a missionary isn't focused on moving up like so many other things. They serve in the position given for a short time. Also, rather than reading "Ward Bishop" It should read "Bishop of a ward." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.27.86.212 ( talk) 04:19, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
AFAICT, Mormonism is unusual in that males over the age of 12 are pretty much all members of the "clergy" ("priesthood") Is there a reason why it is useful to state that Romney was a member of the "lay clergy" when that is essentially true of so many Mormons? Cheers. Collect ( talk) 15:15, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
<note to self> Wow, "As far as I can tell"; try to remember for next time!--- -- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 15:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
As yet another example, the article currently says that Romney and Davies were married by a church elder. True, with sources that support the same, of course. But a general reader, perhaps having met Mormon missionaries before, might believe that a young man married the couple. It takes only a bit of finesse to more accurately imply, in a word or phrase, that in actual fact the officiating Elder was...
a regional, (qausi - ?) full-time LDS Church general authority.{Edwin Jones, a retired longtime family friend and apparently a mentor to young man Mitt —a la the more youthful Barack Obama's pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, who married the future President and First Lady...sorry: threadjack— who had come to be...}
..."Elder" is not normally used as a personal title (e.g., Elder Evans, Elder Johnson), except by the Church's General Authorities, Area Seventies and full-time male missionaries.--- WIKIPEDIA
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 18:32, 4 June 2012 (UTC)Editors should always avoid use of Mormon jargon, which includes any terms used by many adherents to the Latter Day Saint movement that the general public might not understand, might misinterpret, or might find offensive. For example:
[...]
-Do not capitalize priesthood offices (apostle, elder, bishop, high priest, seventy, etc.) or leadership positions in the church (general authority, mission president, regional representative, etc.), unless they are being used to specify a particular organizational group, such as the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles or the First Quorum of the Seventy, or in front of a person's name (but see next item).
-Do not use ecclesiastical titles such as "Elder", "President", "Brother" or "Sister" when referring to leaders of a church, except in the lead section at first occurrence of the name. For example, write "McConkie published a book entitled Mormon Doctrine ..." not "Elder McConkie published a book entitled Mormon Doctrine ..." After first occurrence, the use of an article subject's surname is sufficient and conforms to general encyclopedic style.
These recommendations apply mainly to article text. When these terms are used as part of quotations from church leaders or members and the context is clear, they should not be altered.--- WIKIPEDIA:MANUAL OF STYLE/LATTER DAY SAINTS
(This continues a discussion started in the section on the 2002 Winter Olympics Budget)
Also, your change to the text "He would later brag that he had succeeded in obtaining record levels of funding from the federal government for the staging of a U.S. Olympics" was problematic on several counts. The record level of funding should be stated as a fact, not as something that Romney claims. 'Brag' is a loaded term. Moreover, it's safe to assume that all politicians boast about their accomplishments. If you're trying to implicitly demonstrate that Romney's 2012 position on earmarks is incompatible with his 2002 actions, that's something for the Political positions of Mitt Romney article to cover. Wasted Time R ( talk) 12:02, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I originally added this information in because as I was searching articles to try to find what the final budget numbers were for the Olympics, I came across several sources indicating that Romney had been very proud of his having been able to obtain a substantial level of funding for the Games from the federal government. In fact, during his campaign for the Massachusetts governorship in the weeks and months following the Games, he had even pointed to that experience as a reason to vote for him. It seemed an oversight that the WP article didn't mention this at all.
The passage originally stated (May 28), “The federal government provided $382 million of that budget, much of it because Romney lobbied Congress to provide money for security- and non-security-related items.”
I put into the 2002 Olympics section updated information about the funding level, took out the unhelpful bit about money for security and non-security-related items, and added, “He would later brag that he had succeeded in obtaining record levels of funding from the federal government for the staging of a U.S. Olympics.”
You objected to the use of "brag," saying that it was a loaded term, and I did not counter this as there are alternative ways to convey the same information, although many sources (WaPo, NYT, CBS, ABC, CNN, FactCheck) have used terms such as "brag," "boast," and "tout" in describing what had happened (most of the sources referring to that specific video that the media picked up on during the current presidential campaign).
After several revisions, I changed it to "It would prove to be a record level of federal funding for the staging of a U.S. Olympics, a fact Romney would cite as a selling point during his campaign for the Massachusetts governorship." You deleted the mention of the Olympics, left "It would prove to be a record level of federal funding for the staging of a U.S. Olympics" in the Olympics section, and added "He proposed to reorganize the state government while eliminating waste and mismanagement, and stressed his ability to obtain federal funds for the state" to the campaign section:
He again ran as a political outsider, saying he was "not a partisan Republican" but rather a "moderate" with "progressive" views. Supporters of Romney hailed his business success, especially with the Olympics, as the record of someone who would be able to bring a new era of efficiency into Massachusetts politics. He proposed to reorganize the state government while eliminating waste and mismanagement, and stressed his ability to obtain federal funds for the state. The campaign was the first to use microtargeting techniques....
One might argue that this version does mention that his Olympics experience was used to solicit votes. But it doesn't say that Romney made that argument himself. It says his supporters made the argument; and while they no doubt did, the sources indicate Romney proudly made this point himself. This version of the text also doesn’t make an unambiguous connection between the Olympics and the lobbying for federal funds. While campaigning, Romney was very clear on the point that his success at lobbying for federal funds on behalf of the Olympics helped make him the most qualified candidate for the governorship and that the federal funds he would seek as governor would be necessary to help right Massachusetts’ financial woes. The reader could reasonably take “his business success, especially with the Olympics” in your version of the text to mean simply Romney’s cost-containment measures and, perhaps, lobbying for funds from private sources, not specifically lobbying for government funds — which was a main point that Romney was emphasizing. And, again, your version does not make any mention of how proud Romney was of the accomplishment. You insist that the fact that it was the highest funding level for an Olympics up to that time be stated as a fact, yet Romney himself proudly referred to the ‘record funds’ he had obtained from the government a number of times when talking about the importance of his Olympics experience. He even devoted a whole chapter ("Funds from the Feds") to federal lobbying in his book on the Olympics experience, Turnaround.
You mention Romney’s Staples and Sports Authority connections and speculate that Romney must have campaigned heavily on them. Well, in searching news articles (NewsBank database) from 2002 for “Romney” and “Sports Authority,” I come up with only 3 hits, all discussing a scandal-tainted former Staples CEO whom Romney helped get a job as the CEO of Sports Authority. Searching for “Romney” and “Staples” produces 57 hits. After excluding “staples,” as opposed to the company “Staples,” the vast majority of these articles discuss unrelated topics such as Romney saying he would resign from Staples’ board if elected or saying that he had attended a Staples board meeting. A few articles mention his involvement with Staples as part of background biographical information, which also includes information such as the number of children he has and where he earned his degrees. Only a handful specifically discuss him campaigning on having helped turn Staples’ finances around.
By contrast, sources show that Romney prioritized getting federal funds for the Olympics from the beginning of his involvement with the SLOC and that he was proud of this accomplishment and campaigned on it following the games:
Note the date there: March 22. He had officially been in the race for only a few days, yet he was already mentioning his Olympics experience raising federal money as a selling point — just 3 weeks after the conclusion of the Games.
He would still be making this point 7 months later, in October, mentioning it in a PowerPoint presentation on the campaign trail (the video that recently surfaced shows an example of that) and running at least one tv ad on it.
You have argued, "And the concern about weighting extends to your 2012 claim. In fact, other than a brief flurry of attention when Santorum made some critical remarks before one of the primaries, the federal spending amount in the Olympics has not been an issue in the 2012 election."
Actually, that "brief flurry of attention" to which you refer involved scores of news reports and occurred over one of the most critical periods of the campaign, three weeks in February and early March leading up to SuperTuesday, a period when Santorum had won several primaries and the likelihood of Romney winning the nomination seemed to some in doubt. Romney sought to undercut Santorum's momentum by attacking him for having supported federal earmarks; Santorum fought back by bringing up the Olympics funding. Gingrich piled on, and Democratic strategists saw this as a potential weakness for Romney.
The current version of the article mentions none of this, saying only, "There were several caucuses and primaries during February, and Santorum won three in a single night early in the month, propelling him into the lead in national and some state polls and positioning him as Romney's main rival." Yet somehow the article manages to find room for all of this:
In the run-up to the South Carolina Republican primary, Gingrich launched attack ads criticizing Romney for causing job losses while at Bain Capital, Perry referred to Romney's role there as "vulture capitalism", and Sarah Palin questioned whether Romney could prove his claim that 100,000 jobs were created during that time. Many conservatives rallied in defense of Romney, rejecting what they inferred as criticism of free-market capitalism. However, during two debates, Romney fumbled questions about releasing his income tax returns, while Gingrich gained support with audience-rousing attacks on the debate moderators. Romney's double-digit lead in state polls evaporated and he lost to Gingrich by 13 points in the January 21 primary. Combined with the delayed loss in Iowa, Romney's admitted bad week represented a lost chance to end the race early, and he decided to release his tax returns quickly. The race turned to the Florida Republican primary, where in debates, appearances, and advertisements, Romney unleashed a concerted, unrelenting attack on Gingrich's past record and associations and current electability.
in describing events over a two-week period in January.
I am not trying to make a claim that Romney's statements about his federal lobbying for the Olympics are the single most important thing readers should know about Romney. I am saying that those statements were notable during his campaign for the governorship, that they have been a focus of contention during one of the most critical parts of the 2012 campaign, that they show what he felt was one of his most important accomplishments in organizing the Olympics, and that for these reasons they merit inclusion in this article. Dezastru ( talk) 18:40, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
While Mayor Mike was pondering how to counter childhood (or, otherwise) obesity; R's been spending evenings mulling how to get some beach combers passing by to stop smelling like burning (um, twined hemp-[?]) rope.
A young man in town recalled that Mr. Romney confronted him as he smoked marijuana and drank on the beach last summer, demanding that he stop. The issue appears to be a recurring nuisance....--- NYT
Plus, a panorama from Google Views
Kidding aside - blp had identified the residence as being in San Diego; it's now updated to La Jolla.-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 23:41, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
AFAICT, Wikipedia BLPs do not include the street address of the person. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 00:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
-Kyle Huwa (January 5, 2012),
Mitt Romney at Stanford in 1966,
Stanford Review
-Scott Conroy (June 8, 2012),
At Stanford, Romney Got His Bearings in a Year of Change,
Real Clear Politics
--
Hodgdon's secret garden (
talk)
19:57, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
As the total number of Mormons in 1960 was over 2 million, and the total population of Utah was under 1 million, I took the liberty of disbelieving the inserted claim that most Mormons lived in Utah whan Romney went to France. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 10:17, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
"Mass. stalled antibullying guide under Romney: Objections to writing ‘transgender,’ ‘bisexual’"
I think this should be included in his governorship section. — GabeMc ( talk) 23:53, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Seems a very big stretch - else all Mormon missionaries identified in any article on WP should have such a category added -- usually the word is used for people indefinitely living outside the US for personal or business reasons. The mission was for a set limited period, and no one has alleged in any way that it was "indefinite" or for business purposes (where specific tax laws apply). Cheers. Collect ( talk) 13:37, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Can some admin repair the many hundreds of articles affected by the automated or semi-automated categorization? I fear the person who added them is quite unlikely to remove them all, and I do not use a bot of any sort. I think the consensus here is quite clear indeed. Collect ( talk) 12:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
If it wouldn't be too much to ask, could I have a few second opinions on the media issues section of the Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2012 article? Since this is the central Romney article I figured you would be a good group of editors to ask, as any changes on this smaller article may be made to this one. More or less, there is a debate as to whether or not the media issues section should stay and/or be seriously revised (I would encourage you to check the article's talk page). Personally, I think that most of the news here is non notable at best. A recent addition includes the subsection, Accusations of Lying--what politician doesn't? Today someone included some pro-Romney, though entirely non notable subsections--such as he rescued a family in 2003 and helped find a missing girl in 1996. To be clear, I am neither for or against Romney. Most of this section, however, just seems trivial. But perhaps that's what American elections are like now. Thanks. -- A former Wikipedian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.240.252.169 ( talk) 19:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
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Your article states: "He attended public elementary schools[14] until the seventh grade, when he began commuting to Cranbrook School in Bloomfield Hills, a traditional private boys preparatory school where he was the lone Mormon and where many students came from backgrounds even more privileged then he.
Although there is a boys middle school, there is also a girl's middle school as well. The school is not a private boys preparatory school, it is overall a co-ed institution.
http://schools.cranbrook.edu/podium/default.aspx?t=107992 Mk12483 ( talk) 14:23, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 21:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)Willard Mitt Romney entered Cranbrook in the fall of 1959 at age 12 (grade seven). There was no middle school at the time, and he attended Cranbrook School Brookside for grades seven and eight. He entered the upper school (Cranbrook School) in the fall of 1961, and graduated on June 12, 1965 at the age of 18. All of his siblings likewise attended and graduated from the school including Lynn Romney in 1953 (Kingswood), Jane Romney in 1956 (Kingswood), and Scott Romney in 1959 (Cranbrook).
Romney met his future wife, Ann Davies, while he was a senior and she was a sophomore. Ann Davies graduated from Kingswood School Cranbrook in 1967.
...
Romney was apparently very active in campus life. According to his senior yearbook, his activities included: “Cross Country, hockey manager, Glee Club, Pre-Med Club, Church Cabinet, The Forum, Pep Club, Blue Key Club, American Field Service, World Affairs Seminar, Speculator’s Club, Homecoming Committee chair, assistant editor of the yearbook, ‘The Brook,’ and Inter-House Council Form 6 Representative from Stevens Hall.
--- LINK
Is [1] proper in this BLP?
As I read it, it catenates claims in a manner which I think might well be untoward, and includes material and claims which more aptly belong in the articles on Mormonism than on the BLP here - that a person is a member of a religion does not automatically make claims about the religion proper in his BLP any more than, say, adding long claims about contraception as a Catholic teaching belong automatically in every Catholic politician's biography. Or adding long explanations about "jihad" to every Muslim politician's biography. We should stick strictly to what is directly atributable to the politician or other subject.
And I would further suggest the concept of giving claims with the intent of having them "dovetail" is precisely what Wikipedia deprecates in BLPs. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 01:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Maybe its just me, but these seem too close, and verge on copyvio, per WP:PARAPHRASE, please correct me if I am wrong.
Adding a few words ("individual Mormon", "in France"), and substituting "he" for "Romney", and "gain" for "win" without substantially altering the original sentence structure is not proper paraphrasing. — GabeMc ( talk) 01:50, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
GabeMc, you've diminished the quality of parts of this article by your dozens of edits that seek to avoid "overuse of name" and that replace "Romney" with "he". Where do you get the idea that this is necessary? What MoS guideline is informing you on this? You're doing this to an extreme, such as having a whole section start off with nothing but "He"s and not having "Romney" appear until the second paragraph.
Most professional writing uses "Romney" all the time. Take a look at this WaPo story that is familiar to all of us. Take a look at this NYT story. Take a look at this New Yorker piece. Take a look at any page of the Kranish-Helman book. "Romney" is used frequently in all of these. So where are you coming from on this? Wasted Time R ( talk) 10:40, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Case in point here:
Romney, who was not at fault in the accident,[nb 6] became co-acting president of a mission demoralized and disorganized by the May civil disturbances and by the car accident.[35] Romney rallied and motivated the others and they met an ambitious goal of 200 baptisms for the year, the most for the mission in a decade.[35] By the end of his stint in December 1968, Romney was overseeing the work of 175 fellow members.[30][38] Romney developed a lifelong affection for France and its people, and speaks French.[40]
Do we really need to use "Romney", four times in four sentences? — GabeMc ( talk) 22:44, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Another:
The Romneys' first son, Taggart, was born in 1970[44] while the Romneys were undergraduates at Brigham Young[50] and living in a basement apartment.[30][41] Ann subsequently gave birth to Matt (1971), Josh (1975), Ben (1978), and Craig (1981).[44] Ann Romney's work as a homemaker would enable her husband to pursue his career.[51]
this should be:
The Romneys' first son, Taggart, was born in 1970[44] while the they were undergraduates at Brigham Young[50] and living in a basement apartment.[30][41] Ann subsequently gave birth to Matt (1971), Josh (1975), Ben (1978), and Craig (1981).[44] Her work as a homemaker would enable her husband to pursue his career.[51]
— GabeMc ( talk) 22:50, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Another:
Romney still wanted to pursue a business path, but his father, by now serving in President Richard Nixon's cabinet as U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, advised that a law degree would be valuable.[52][53] Thus Romney became one of only fifteen students to enroll at the recently created joint Juris Doctor/Master of Business Administration four-year program coordinated between Harvard Law School and Harvard Business School.[54] Fellow students considered Romney guilelessly optimistic, noting his solid work ethic and buttoned-down demeanor and appearance.[54][55]
Three uses of "Romney" within three sentences is poor prose. — GabeMc ( talk) 23:04, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Talk:Republican Party presidential primaries, 2012#Merging all U.S. states presidential primary and election articles into one article for each state. The proposal is to merge all articles on different state primaries (both democratic and republican) and the articles on the presidential election (where such exist) in to one single article for each state. See United States presidential election in New Hampshire, 2008 It is possible to see how the 2008 and 2012 articles will look like if this large merges was completed. This issue have been discussed for a month on this talkpage without a clear consensus and the merge proposal is so massive that it would be good to get a wide range of editors to comment on it.
Jack Bornholm (
talk)
17:01, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Which of his political campaigns has he not "helped fund"? — GabeMc ( talk) 22:38, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Comment I think it's rather trivial information for his bio, when specific articles exist. - Xcal68 ( talk) 11:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
"He continued to work hard; having grown up in Michigan rather than the more insular Utah world, Romney was better able to interact with the French than other missionaries."[35][11]
1) Is this implying that people in Utah do not work as hard as people in Michigan? 2) What does growing up in Michigan have to do with interacting with the French? — GabeMc ( talk) 00:32, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
--offa top o my head I tippetytaphas worked on every political race Romney's been involved in, including his unsuccessful Senate run against Ted Kennedy in 1994. White helped Romney turn around the Olympic Games in Salt Lake City and headed the transition team when Romney was elected governor in 2002. The 2008 cycle found White in the cockpit of Romney's first national effort, even if campaign manager Beth Myers was flying the plane. He will be a significant presence in any 2012 effort
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 21:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 23:31, 24 May 2012 (UTC)... mister Bain asked R to helm the start-up, tapping so'n'so, so'n'no and so'n'so as major partners and as management team, mssrs. X, Y, Z, and Bob White: [Edited:
also a minor partner, who was to become, long term, Romney's most trusted lieutenant/confidante and friend].
.....'sec'y of state' of any romney 'kitchen cabinet'?:
[...Former ]vice president[...]of Walden Media [,...Peter G. ]Flaherty[ II], former Boston Herald State House reporter Fehrnstrom, and Myers are now Romney’s closest longtime aides, along with Robert F. White. A volunteer, White is a friend of Romney’s[...].
--- Ronald Kessler, March 12, 2012 link
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 00:46, 26 May 2012 (UTC)Myers['...]political consulting group —[...]with Flaherty and Eric "Etch A Sketch" Fehrnstrom[ — ...]along with Romney's old buddy Bob White, compose what is widely considered to be Romney's closest circle of nonfamilial advisers.
--- NYMag, May 9, 2012
I’m on my fifth ‘once in a lifetime opportunity’ with Mitt.---WHITE ( in the WaPo&NYT)
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 18:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
"In July 1966, he left for a thirty-month stay in France as a Mormon missionary,[14][29][30]"
When the Kranish-Helman book came out, I thought about changing as many article sources to it as I could. I eventually decided not to, because
On the other hand, like you say, it would shorten the citing. Wasted Time R ( talk) 10:25, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
As far as claiming there is no room for improvement in the article's sourcing, how about this sentence: "Romney was born at Harper Hospital in Detroit, Michigan,[1] the youngest child of George W. Romney, a self-made man who by 1948 had become an automobile executive, and Lenore Romney (née LaFount), an aspiring actress turned homemaker.[2][3][4]"
[1] covers Mitt's birth hospital, [2] covers Lenore's acting, and [3] covers George Romney's career. Why is there a need for [ 4], which seems to do nothing but reinforce that Geo Romney was succsessful, but is that contentious so as to require two cites? Does [4] source info not already covered in [3]? — GabeMc ( talk) 22:45, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I think we should mention in the heritage section that Mitt is a decendant of Anne Hutchinson. Any objections? — GabeMc ( talk) 02:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Some of the protestations of unencyclopedic and trivial about various sections of this article are highly selective, considering that the article already tells us that Romney was on the cross-country team, that he read automotive trade magazines as a boy, that he donated money earned from a book he authored to charity, that he was married at his home in Bloomfield Hills, and even the name of the hospital where he was born. GabeMc, it might be worth including mention of Anne Hutchinson in the Romney family article, where it will probably be less contested, assuming you have strong enough sources. Dezastru ( talk) 17:02, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
It's already in a related article:
Pratt family ... Jared Pratt...married 1799 to Charity Dickinson, a descendant of Anne Hutchinson and was father of Parley P. Pratt and Orson Pratt.--- WIKIPEDIA
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 17:57, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Let's take another look at the 2002 Winter Olympics budget.
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One issue is what was the cost to taxpayers of holding the Olympics - specifically, what was the amount of federal funding. Recent versions of the article stated that the federal government contributed $382 million for the Games, apart from another $1+ billion for indirect costs. The problem with that $382 million figure is that it is much lower than the approximately $600 million Romney himself states in his book on his experience organizing the Olympics, Turnaround, originally published in 2004. It is not clear in the reporting of the Boston Globe piece that quotes $382 million exactly where they got that figure from. Presumably, it comes from the Government Accountability Office report published in November 2001 (GAO-02-140), which put the federal direct expenditures at about $324 million (quoted in the LA Times article), not including additional funds required for security related to the the September 11 attacks. Adding in funds for September 11-related security presumably would bump the figure up to the vicinity of $382 million.
However, the November 2001 GAO report was based on figures generated prior to July 31, 2001. In other words, the $324 million base figure is based on estimates made 6 months before the Games were held. Projects of this magnitude, involving this amount of complexity, never run under budget, and almost never run on budget, so it takes a huge leap of faith to expect that the $324 million estimated in the summer of 2001 is what the final cost actually turned out to be. To my knowledge, no further federal audit was ever conducted (or at least none that was made available to the general public). The Salt Lake Organizing Committee did hold news conferences to announce a predicted surplus of $55 million in April 2002 and a revision of that to more than $100 million in a final report in September 2002; but the news reports from the press conferences made no mention of the final federal costs. (Does anyone have access to the published final report?) The $324 million base estimate also did not include personnel costs. So why should the GAO estimate made 6 months prior to the Games be given equal weight to what Romney, President and CEO, published more than a year after the Games were held in a book about his experience organizing the Games? If anyone knew what the federal costs were, it should have been Romney.
I also don't understand why Romney's book about organizing the Games cannot be taken as a reliable source on the narrow subject of what the federal contribution to the Games was. (After all, the GAO report itself is largely based on the claims of the SLOC, and Romney was chair of the SLOC during the period of interest.) Dezastru ( talk) 08:07, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Collect has removed this text: "His omnipresence irked those who thought he was taking too much of the credit for the success, had exaggerated the state of initial distress, or was primarily looking to improve his own image.[115][120]" on the grounds rm claims not in any way in source - and claim sourced used for entirely unsupported claim not in source - WP:BLP and WP:V still apply)
On the contrary, these sources directly support this text. For example:
From fn 115 (NYT story):
From fn 120 (BG story):
Each of the points of the text – omnipresence, exaggeration of problem, taking too much credit, working towards his image – is directly borne out in these clips from these stories. BLP does not mean we cannot describe negative views of a subject. The rest of this section is full of positive views of Romney's Olympics performance. There is nothing wrong with this text or its sourcing, and I have restored it. Wasted Time R ( talk) 14:34, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
The claim was made in a revert that there was consensus to include the "great white hope" trivia. Reading this section shows me that no such consensus was reached.
Collect (
talk)
23:31, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
The article currently reads: "In March of his senior year, he began dating Ann Davies, two years his younger,"
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Romney's mission in France, one that lasted more than 30 months, came during the Viet Nam War. In that Romney asked for and received numerous student deferments before leaving for France, he was able, as a result of the deferments and trip abroad, to evade the U.S. draft, hence he did not serve, as he did not join nor was he drafted. All four of Romney's brothers likewise evaded the draft and military service.
71.50.79.143 ( talk) 05:03, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Romney is no longer the presumptive nominee. He IS the nominee. CBS, the Huffington Post, and good old Fox are all reporting that he is now the nominee. Fox now says that he can "drop presumptive from his title." Is he the nominee or should presumptive stay? Andrewrp Tally-ho! 03:27, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
What State would he be representing as Presidential Candidate.
The Constitution requires that President and Vice-President have to be from different states. So a would-be President has to identify his State.
What is his state? 68.48.204.94 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:04, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
What state would Mitt Romney run under? Look under his picture at Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012 for the answer you already know. Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 12:36, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
I think I know the answer to this question already, but I'll ask here to be sure. Can we Gimp/Photoshop out the white "fog" in the upper left and right corners of the pic, or is that frowned upon? — GabeMc ( talk) 03:45, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
--
Amadscientist (
talk)
22:49, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
2002 gubernatorial campaign Main article: Massachusetts gubernatorial election, 2002 In 2002, Republican Acting Governor Jane Swift's administration was plagued by political missteps and personal scandals.[135] Many Republicans viewed her as a liability and considered her unable to win a general election.[139] Prominent party figures – as well as the White House – wanted Romney to run for governor,[137][140] and the opportunity appealed to him for its national visibility.[141] One poll taken at that time showed Republicans favoring Romney over Swift by more than 50 percentage points.[142] On March 19, 2002, Swift announced she would not seek her party's nomination, and hours later Romney declared his candidacy,[142] for which would face no opposition in the primary.[143]
The last sentence should say "for which he would face no opposition in the primary.[143] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.107.51 ( talk) 14:00, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Some of the wording ought to be changed in the description of his Latter Day Saint mission in France. Rather than saying that he was "promoted" to be a zone leader, it should be "assigned." Life as a missionary isn't focused on moving up like so many other things. They serve in the position given for a short time. Also, rather than reading "Ward Bishop" It should read "Bishop of a ward." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.27.86.212 ( talk) 04:19, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
AFAICT, Mormonism is unusual in that males over the age of 12 are pretty much all members of the "clergy" ("priesthood") Is there a reason why it is useful to state that Romney was a member of the "lay clergy" when that is essentially true of so many Mormons? Cheers. Collect ( talk) 15:15, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
<note to self> Wow, "As far as I can tell"; try to remember for next time!--- -- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 15:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
As yet another example, the article currently says that Romney and Davies were married by a church elder. True, with sources that support the same, of course. But a general reader, perhaps having met Mormon missionaries before, might believe that a young man married the couple. It takes only a bit of finesse to more accurately imply, in a word or phrase, that in actual fact the officiating Elder was...
a regional, (qausi - ?) full-time LDS Church general authority.{Edwin Jones, a retired longtime family friend and apparently a mentor to young man Mitt —a la the more youthful Barack Obama's pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, who married the future President and First Lady...sorry: threadjack— who had come to be...}
..."Elder" is not normally used as a personal title (e.g., Elder Evans, Elder Johnson), except by the Church's General Authorities, Area Seventies and full-time male missionaries.--- WIKIPEDIA
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 18:32, 4 June 2012 (UTC)Editors should always avoid use of Mormon jargon, which includes any terms used by many adherents to the Latter Day Saint movement that the general public might not understand, might misinterpret, or might find offensive. For example:
[...]
-Do not capitalize priesthood offices (apostle, elder, bishop, high priest, seventy, etc.) or leadership positions in the church (general authority, mission president, regional representative, etc.), unless they are being used to specify a particular organizational group, such as the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles or the First Quorum of the Seventy, or in front of a person's name (but see next item).
-Do not use ecclesiastical titles such as "Elder", "President", "Brother" or "Sister" when referring to leaders of a church, except in the lead section at first occurrence of the name. For example, write "McConkie published a book entitled Mormon Doctrine ..." not "Elder McConkie published a book entitled Mormon Doctrine ..." After first occurrence, the use of an article subject's surname is sufficient and conforms to general encyclopedic style.
These recommendations apply mainly to article text. When these terms are used as part of quotations from church leaders or members and the context is clear, they should not be altered.--- WIKIPEDIA:MANUAL OF STYLE/LATTER DAY SAINTS
(This continues a discussion started in the section on the 2002 Winter Olympics Budget)
Also, your change to the text "He would later brag that he had succeeded in obtaining record levels of funding from the federal government for the staging of a U.S. Olympics" was problematic on several counts. The record level of funding should be stated as a fact, not as something that Romney claims. 'Brag' is a loaded term. Moreover, it's safe to assume that all politicians boast about their accomplishments. If you're trying to implicitly demonstrate that Romney's 2012 position on earmarks is incompatible with his 2002 actions, that's something for the Political positions of Mitt Romney article to cover. Wasted Time R ( talk) 12:02, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I originally added this information in because as I was searching articles to try to find what the final budget numbers were for the Olympics, I came across several sources indicating that Romney had been very proud of his having been able to obtain a substantial level of funding for the Games from the federal government. In fact, during his campaign for the Massachusetts governorship in the weeks and months following the Games, he had even pointed to that experience as a reason to vote for him. It seemed an oversight that the WP article didn't mention this at all.
The passage originally stated (May 28), “The federal government provided $382 million of that budget, much of it because Romney lobbied Congress to provide money for security- and non-security-related items.”
I put into the 2002 Olympics section updated information about the funding level, took out the unhelpful bit about money for security and non-security-related items, and added, “He would later brag that he had succeeded in obtaining record levels of funding from the federal government for the staging of a U.S. Olympics.”
You objected to the use of "brag," saying that it was a loaded term, and I did not counter this as there are alternative ways to convey the same information, although many sources (WaPo, NYT, CBS, ABC, CNN, FactCheck) have used terms such as "brag," "boast," and "tout" in describing what had happened (most of the sources referring to that specific video that the media picked up on during the current presidential campaign).
After several revisions, I changed it to "It would prove to be a record level of federal funding for the staging of a U.S. Olympics, a fact Romney would cite as a selling point during his campaign for the Massachusetts governorship." You deleted the mention of the Olympics, left "It would prove to be a record level of federal funding for the staging of a U.S. Olympics" in the Olympics section, and added "He proposed to reorganize the state government while eliminating waste and mismanagement, and stressed his ability to obtain federal funds for the state" to the campaign section:
He again ran as a political outsider, saying he was "not a partisan Republican" but rather a "moderate" with "progressive" views. Supporters of Romney hailed his business success, especially with the Olympics, as the record of someone who would be able to bring a new era of efficiency into Massachusetts politics. He proposed to reorganize the state government while eliminating waste and mismanagement, and stressed his ability to obtain federal funds for the state. The campaign was the first to use microtargeting techniques....
One might argue that this version does mention that his Olympics experience was used to solicit votes. But it doesn't say that Romney made that argument himself. It says his supporters made the argument; and while they no doubt did, the sources indicate Romney proudly made this point himself. This version of the text also doesn’t make an unambiguous connection between the Olympics and the lobbying for federal funds. While campaigning, Romney was very clear on the point that his success at lobbying for federal funds on behalf of the Olympics helped make him the most qualified candidate for the governorship and that the federal funds he would seek as governor would be necessary to help right Massachusetts’ financial woes. The reader could reasonably take “his business success, especially with the Olympics” in your version of the text to mean simply Romney’s cost-containment measures and, perhaps, lobbying for funds from private sources, not specifically lobbying for government funds — which was a main point that Romney was emphasizing. And, again, your version does not make any mention of how proud Romney was of the accomplishment. You insist that the fact that it was the highest funding level for an Olympics up to that time be stated as a fact, yet Romney himself proudly referred to the ‘record funds’ he had obtained from the government a number of times when talking about the importance of his Olympics experience. He even devoted a whole chapter ("Funds from the Feds") to federal lobbying in his book on the Olympics experience, Turnaround.
You mention Romney’s Staples and Sports Authority connections and speculate that Romney must have campaigned heavily on them. Well, in searching news articles (NewsBank database) from 2002 for “Romney” and “Sports Authority,” I come up with only 3 hits, all discussing a scandal-tainted former Staples CEO whom Romney helped get a job as the CEO of Sports Authority. Searching for “Romney” and “Staples” produces 57 hits. After excluding “staples,” as opposed to the company “Staples,” the vast majority of these articles discuss unrelated topics such as Romney saying he would resign from Staples’ board if elected or saying that he had attended a Staples board meeting. A few articles mention his involvement with Staples as part of background biographical information, which also includes information such as the number of children he has and where he earned his degrees. Only a handful specifically discuss him campaigning on having helped turn Staples’ finances around.
By contrast, sources show that Romney prioritized getting federal funds for the Olympics from the beginning of his involvement with the SLOC and that he was proud of this accomplishment and campaigned on it following the games:
Note the date there: March 22. He had officially been in the race for only a few days, yet he was already mentioning his Olympics experience raising federal money as a selling point — just 3 weeks after the conclusion of the Games.
He would still be making this point 7 months later, in October, mentioning it in a PowerPoint presentation on the campaign trail (the video that recently surfaced shows an example of that) and running at least one tv ad on it.
You have argued, "And the concern about weighting extends to your 2012 claim. In fact, other than a brief flurry of attention when Santorum made some critical remarks before one of the primaries, the federal spending amount in the Olympics has not been an issue in the 2012 election."
Actually, that "brief flurry of attention" to which you refer involved scores of news reports and occurred over one of the most critical periods of the campaign, three weeks in February and early March leading up to SuperTuesday, a period when Santorum had won several primaries and the likelihood of Romney winning the nomination seemed to some in doubt. Romney sought to undercut Santorum's momentum by attacking him for having supported federal earmarks; Santorum fought back by bringing up the Olympics funding. Gingrich piled on, and Democratic strategists saw this as a potential weakness for Romney.
The current version of the article mentions none of this, saying only, "There were several caucuses and primaries during February, and Santorum won three in a single night early in the month, propelling him into the lead in national and some state polls and positioning him as Romney's main rival." Yet somehow the article manages to find room for all of this:
In the run-up to the South Carolina Republican primary, Gingrich launched attack ads criticizing Romney for causing job losses while at Bain Capital, Perry referred to Romney's role there as "vulture capitalism", and Sarah Palin questioned whether Romney could prove his claim that 100,000 jobs were created during that time. Many conservatives rallied in defense of Romney, rejecting what they inferred as criticism of free-market capitalism. However, during two debates, Romney fumbled questions about releasing his income tax returns, while Gingrich gained support with audience-rousing attacks on the debate moderators. Romney's double-digit lead in state polls evaporated and he lost to Gingrich by 13 points in the January 21 primary. Combined with the delayed loss in Iowa, Romney's admitted bad week represented a lost chance to end the race early, and he decided to release his tax returns quickly. The race turned to the Florida Republican primary, where in debates, appearances, and advertisements, Romney unleashed a concerted, unrelenting attack on Gingrich's past record and associations and current electability.
in describing events over a two-week period in January.
I am not trying to make a claim that Romney's statements about his federal lobbying for the Olympics are the single most important thing readers should know about Romney. I am saying that those statements were notable during his campaign for the governorship, that they have been a focus of contention during one of the most critical parts of the 2012 campaign, that they show what he felt was one of his most important accomplishments in organizing the Olympics, and that for these reasons they merit inclusion in this article. Dezastru ( talk) 18:40, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
While Mayor Mike was pondering how to counter childhood (or, otherwise) obesity; R's been spending evenings mulling how to get some beach combers passing by to stop smelling like burning (um, twined hemp-[?]) rope.
A young man in town recalled that Mr. Romney confronted him as he smoked marijuana and drank on the beach last summer, demanding that he stop. The issue appears to be a recurring nuisance....--- NYT
Plus, a panorama from Google Views
Kidding aside - blp had identified the residence as being in San Diego; it's now updated to La Jolla.-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 23:41, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
AFAICT, Wikipedia BLPs do not include the street address of the person. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 00:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
-Kyle Huwa (January 5, 2012),
Mitt Romney at Stanford in 1966,
Stanford Review
-Scott Conroy (June 8, 2012),
At Stanford, Romney Got His Bearings in a Year of Change,
Real Clear Politics
--
Hodgdon's secret garden (
talk)
19:57, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
As the total number of Mormons in 1960 was over 2 million, and the total population of Utah was under 1 million, I took the liberty of disbelieving the inserted claim that most Mormons lived in Utah whan Romney went to France. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 10:17, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
"Mass. stalled antibullying guide under Romney: Objections to writing ‘transgender,’ ‘bisexual’"
I think this should be included in his governorship section. — GabeMc ( talk) 23:53, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Seems a very big stretch - else all Mormon missionaries identified in any article on WP should have such a category added -- usually the word is used for people indefinitely living outside the US for personal or business reasons. The mission was for a set limited period, and no one has alleged in any way that it was "indefinite" or for business purposes (where specific tax laws apply). Cheers. Collect ( talk) 13:37, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Can some admin repair the many hundreds of articles affected by the automated or semi-automated categorization? I fear the person who added them is quite unlikely to remove them all, and I do not use a bot of any sort. I think the consensus here is quite clear indeed. Collect ( talk) 12:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
If it wouldn't be too much to ask, could I have a few second opinions on the media issues section of the Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2012 article? Since this is the central Romney article I figured you would be a good group of editors to ask, as any changes on this smaller article may be made to this one. More or less, there is a debate as to whether or not the media issues section should stay and/or be seriously revised (I would encourage you to check the article's talk page). Personally, I think that most of the news here is non notable at best. A recent addition includes the subsection, Accusations of Lying--what politician doesn't? Today someone included some pro-Romney, though entirely non notable subsections--such as he rescued a family in 2003 and helped find a missing girl in 1996. To be clear, I am neither for or against Romney. Most of this section, however, just seems trivial. But perhaps that's what American elections are like now. Thanks. -- A former Wikipedian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.240.252.169 ( talk) 19:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)