![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 6 June 2016. The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
![]() | Mirror Universe was a Media and drama good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
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Current status: Former good article nominee |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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For a May 2005 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Mirror Universe (Star Trek)
There oughta be a Template:Star Trek Mirror Universe stories template, just as there's an Template:Star Trek Time travel stories template. The bars on the bottom, such as the one from Crossover (DS9 episode), are insufficient and inconsistently used. Mdiamante 19:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Would a possible "point of divergence" have been the survival of Edith Keeler which would have paved the way for an Axis victory in WW II? j/w. - knoodelhed 08:58, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The Mirror Universe concept is crazy enough that it must be the work of Q. There's no other "sensible" way to explain how so many mirror characters are killed, presumably year after year and century after century, without causing orders of magnitude more population & situation divergence compared to the prime universe. Chaos theory tells us that small perturbations would lead to huge divergences over time; a few decades after a point of divergence on Earth there would be few if any Mirror Universe humans who have the same genes and are exactly the same age as their prime universe counterparts. SEppley ( talk) 02:33, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
The Mirror Universe never diverged. Every universe Worf visits in Parallels has its own Mirror Universe (by the way, Worf never makes it home because in his universe, Spot is a male long-haired Somali-cat, while after Parallels, Spot is a female common house-cat and births baby kittens). Universes are paired. The natural tendency of universes is to diverge, but the pairing causes convergence. The result is a theme and variation. The paired universes were, are, and always will be similar, but never identical.--- — Ŭalabio 08:30, 2005 May 7 (UTC)
While the serial Inferno may have been inspired by the Mirror Universe (MU), the Crime Sindicate of America (CSA) first appeared in the comic books in August 1964, beating the Mirror Universe by three years. Therefore, the following section:
"The Mirror Universe concept has been used by Doctor Who in the serial Inferno and by the Justice League of America in stories featuring the Crime Syndicate of Amerika. It is unclear to what extent these have been inspired by the Star Trek setting."
Both ideas, Earth 3 (where the CSA lived) and the Mirror Universe are probably based on similar concepts, but it is logically impossible for the Syndicate to have been inspired by the MU.
I seem to recall a Trek Today or TrekWeb news item that indicated that Manny Coto ... or some other writer ... was planning to write a novel continuing the Enterprise-era Mirror Universe stories, since Coto was unable to produce a follow-up for season 5. I can't find the news story anywhere, but if anyone can find a link to confirm the facts, it might be worth noting in either the Enterprise or Novels sections. 23skidoo 06:42, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I didn't see a reference to Marvel Comics' "Star Trek: Mirror, Mirror" one-shot. It gives an account of what (may have) happened directly Mirror-Kirk returned to the I.S.S. Enterprise. Mirror-Spock incarcerates Mirror-Kirk, who allies himself with incarcerated Mirror-Sulu in a failed coup attempt. Ultimately, Mirror-Spock enlists Mirror-Scotty's aid in using the Tantalus device against a Klingon attack group. One ship is spared to spread the word of the Empire's terrible new weapon. Mirror-Spock kills Mirror-Kirk at the end of the story, and is given official command of the I.S.S. Enterprise by Mirror-Starfleet.
Also, there was a 2-part back-up story pertaining to the Mirror Universe in Malibu Comics' "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" 29 & 30 that followed Mirror-Tuvok. I don't recall much about the story offhand, but I've got it somewhere.
Is this true? I've seen the episode in question several times, and while Vic is definitely "real" (not a hologram), I didn't see any evidence that he was an android. (It would make sense, though, seeing as how both would then be artificial lifeforms...) (an anonymous user)
I am sorry to say that this article failed its GA nomination. Refering to the GA criteria, it failed these specific points:
1a) The prose is not up to GA standards. The article uses long and often confusing sentences, and goes on a lot of tangents in parenthesis.
1b) The article itself does not follow a logical structure. It seems to have been written with no plan, with each editor adding information as they thought of it. The article goes from one section about the TV series, to one section about books, to one section for each game, to "other ramifications" which is again about TV, to parodies, to TV again, and then to the "see also" section which, for some reason, contains a short paragraph about a game.
1c) It does not follow style guidelines for writing about fiction. Specifically, many sections are written with an inappropriate in-universe perspective.
1d) While all terms are wikilinked, the article goes a little overboard on this, and many words and names are wikilinked multiple times. The style guideline is to wikilink only the first occurence of a word.
2a) The article provides no references.
2b) The article provids no citations.
2d) The article contains a lot of original research. For instance, there is a long paragraph on fan speculation of the impact of the Enterprise-E's impact on Cochrane's warp test.
3a) This article makes no distinction between canon and non-canon "mirror universe" information. Given that canonicity of material is an important issue in the Star Trek franchise, this would be an important point to discuss.
Thank you for your hard work on this page, and fell free to re-submit it once these issues have been settled. Happy editing! -- Ritchy 17:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Please merge any relevant content from Agonizer per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Agonizer. (If there is nothing to merge, just leave it as a redirect.) Thanks. — Quarl ( talk) 2007-02-23 08:39Z
Image:In a Mirror, Darkly (ENT episode) Part I.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 08:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd contest the point calling DS9's mirror!Ezri bisexual. To my recollection, there was no mention of any relationships with men, and several lines indicating suggestively that male characters were "not her type"--if we're going to make judgments about characters' sexuality, I'd say that she was a lesbian. Also, bisexuality does not equal promiscuity; that's just silly. We saw MU!Ezri with Kira, yes, and it was insinuated with Leeta at the end (and if you take the novels into account, the two married some time later), but that's it. Leeta was on screen for all of thirty seconds, flirting with one character, thus hardly justifying the above label as well. I'm removing both references. CrashCart9 ( talk) 20:15, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm considering stubifying this article -- it is laden with long-unaddressed problems such as OR, overwhelming plot trivia, and no real-world perspective. Any substantive objections? -- EEMIV ( talk) 17:02, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
It depends what you call substantive. Does the present status of the article cause any harm, distress or inconvenience? And if the answer is, as I suspect, no why waste time and effort nuking it when the only effect will be to cause, if not harm or distress, then at least potential inconvenience.
More generally I will just say, yet again, that I much preferred Wiki before it started believing it's own hype. Does it matter a fig how "important" or "trivial" an article is or whether it contains "real-world perspective"? Only, I suspect, in the minds of people who have nought else to worry about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.14.29 ( talk) 11:30, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Anyone else notice that in all of the proper DS9 mirror verse episodes (excluding Resurrection given its inverted format) a Ferengi dies in each one; Quark in Crossover, Rom in Through the Looking Glass, Nog in Shattered Mirror, and Brunt in The Emperor's New Cloak. Anyone know whether this was some sort of ongoing joke? Is this worth mentioning in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougie89 ( talk • contribs) 04:10, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Except for the addition of the "Scales of Justice", and the olive branches, Interpol's logo closely resembles the Terran empire's logo.
Perhaps this makes senses as the Empire is missing Justice and Peace. Lent ( talk) 00:49, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Possibly a useful ref for fleshing things out: https://io9.gizmodo.com/everything-we-know-about-the-timeline-of-star-treks-mir-1822127136 Artw ( talk) 19:23, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- Jack Sebastian ( talk) 23:38, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
So at the moment we have a number of rather sprawling episode summaries, which are largely an artifact of how the Mirror Universe would appear in Star Trek prior to Discovery, showing up periodically in largely stand alone episodes. Obviously Discovery’s extended mirror universe plotlind blows this out of the water and what we have now is looking rather bloated. Given all this should we aggressively trim the episode summaries? Merge multi-part stories into a single listing? Or possibly omit them altogether and take a different approach? Open to suggestions. Artw ( talk) 17:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 01:58, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Mirror Universe →
Mirror Universe (Star Trek) –
Mirror universe and
Mirror Universe should be
WP:PRIMARYREDIRECTs to
Parallel universe as a commonly used physics, philosophical and fictional term from which the Star Trek writers drew their ideas. Page was at that location prior to 2014 but was moved unnecessarily.
ZXCVBNM (
TALK)
17:33, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
One thing occurred to me when trimming down the plot summaries - we ahve a lot of character descriptions in there, in particular tracking how characters differ from their Prime universe counterparts. Could the article benefit from a "Notable Mirror Characters" section? Artw ( talk) 23:41, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
User @ Ajd: continues to revert the text to a version that makes an incorrect and anachronistic use of the term "Terran Empire". The incorrect version uses the term "Terran Empire" in reference to a TOS episode (Mirror, Mirror) and to the five DS9 episodes. This is completely incorrect. During the entire run of the episode Mirror, Mirror at no point in dialogue the Empire is named, is just referred as the Empire. In fact expanded universe material like comics and novel gave different names to the empire, which are not important as this article seem to based itself on canon material only. The first coinage of the term "Terran" was used in DS9 episode "Crossover", not before. In all five Mirror episodes of DS9 at no point the term "Terran Empire" was used. The first used of the term "Terran Empire" was in the Enterprise episode "In a Mirror, Darkly". Thus is obvious that is incorrect it usage before that time. HourZerox ( talk) 17:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 6 June 2016. The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
![]() | Mirror Universe was a Media and drama good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former good article nominee |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
For a May 2005 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Mirror Universe (Star Trek)
There oughta be a Template:Star Trek Mirror Universe stories template, just as there's an Template:Star Trek Time travel stories template. The bars on the bottom, such as the one from Crossover (DS9 episode), are insufficient and inconsistently used. Mdiamante 19:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Would a possible "point of divergence" have been the survival of Edith Keeler which would have paved the way for an Axis victory in WW II? j/w. - knoodelhed 08:58, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The Mirror Universe concept is crazy enough that it must be the work of Q. There's no other "sensible" way to explain how so many mirror characters are killed, presumably year after year and century after century, without causing orders of magnitude more population & situation divergence compared to the prime universe. Chaos theory tells us that small perturbations would lead to huge divergences over time; a few decades after a point of divergence on Earth there would be few if any Mirror Universe humans who have the same genes and are exactly the same age as their prime universe counterparts. SEppley ( talk) 02:33, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
The Mirror Universe never diverged. Every universe Worf visits in Parallels has its own Mirror Universe (by the way, Worf never makes it home because in his universe, Spot is a male long-haired Somali-cat, while after Parallels, Spot is a female common house-cat and births baby kittens). Universes are paired. The natural tendency of universes is to diverge, but the pairing causes convergence. The result is a theme and variation. The paired universes were, are, and always will be similar, but never identical.--- — Ŭalabio 08:30, 2005 May 7 (UTC)
While the serial Inferno may have been inspired by the Mirror Universe (MU), the Crime Sindicate of America (CSA) first appeared in the comic books in August 1964, beating the Mirror Universe by three years. Therefore, the following section:
"The Mirror Universe concept has been used by Doctor Who in the serial Inferno and by the Justice League of America in stories featuring the Crime Syndicate of Amerika. It is unclear to what extent these have been inspired by the Star Trek setting."
Both ideas, Earth 3 (where the CSA lived) and the Mirror Universe are probably based on similar concepts, but it is logically impossible for the Syndicate to have been inspired by the MU.
I seem to recall a Trek Today or TrekWeb news item that indicated that Manny Coto ... or some other writer ... was planning to write a novel continuing the Enterprise-era Mirror Universe stories, since Coto was unable to produce a follow-up for season 5. I can't find the news story anywhere, but if anyone can find a link to confirm the facts, it might be worth noting in either the Enterprise or Novels sections. 23skidoo 06:42, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I didn't see a reference to Marvel Comics' "Star Trek: Mirror, Mirror" one-shot. It gives an account of what (may have) happened directly Mirror-Kirk returned to the I.S.S. Enterprise. Mirror-Spock incarcerates Mirror-Kirk, who allies himself with incarcerated Mirror-Sulu in a failed coup attempt. Ultimately, Mirror-Spock enlists Mirror-Scotty's aid in using the Tantalus device against a Klingon attack group. One ship is spared to spread the word of the Empire's terrible new weapon. Mirror-Spock kills Mirror-Kirk at the end of the story, and is given official command of the I.S.S. Enterprise by Mirror-Starfleet.
Also, there was a 2-part back-up story pertaining to the Mirror Universe in Malibu Comics' "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" 29 & 30 that followed Mirror-Tuvok. I don't recall much about the story offhand, but I've got it somewhere.
Is this true? I've seen the episode in question several times, and while Vic is definitely "real" (not a hologram), I didn't see any evidence that he was an android. (It would make sense, though, seeing as how both would then be artificial lifeforms...) (an anonymous user)
I am sorry to say that this article failed its GA nomination. Refering to the GA criteria, it failed these specific points:
1a) The prose is not up to GA standards. The article uses long and often confusing sentences, and goes on a lot of tangents in parenthesis.
1b) The article itself does not follow a logical structure. It seems to have been written with no plan, with each editor adding information as they thought of it. The article goes from one section about the TV series, to one section about books, to one section for each game, to "other ramifications" which is again about TV, to parodies, to TV again, and then to the "see also" section which, for some reason, contains a short paragraph about a game.
1c) It does not follow style guidelines for writing about fiction. Specifically, many sections are written with an inappropriate in-universe perspective.
1d) While all terms are wikilinked, the article goes a little overboard on this, and many words and names are wikilinked multiple times. The style guideline is to wikilink only the first occurence of a word.
2a) The article provides no references.
2b) The article provids no citations.
2d) The article contains a lot of original research. For instance, there is a long paragraph on fan speculation of the impact of the Enterprise-E's impact on Cochrane's warp test.
3a) This article makes no distinction between canon and non-canon "mirror universe" information. Given that canonicity of material is an important issue in the Star Trek franchise, this would be an important point to discuss.
Thank you for your hard work on this page, and fell free to re-submit it once these issues have been settled. Happy editing! -- Ritchy 17:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Please merge any relevant content from Agonizer per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Agonizer. (If there is nothing to merge, just leave it as a redirect.) Thanks. — Quarl ( talk) 2007-02-23 08:39Z
Image:In a Mirror, Darkly (ENT episode) Part I.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 08:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd contest the point calling DS9's mirror!Ezri bisexual. To my recollection, there was no mention of any relationships with men, and several lines indicating suggestively that male characters were "not her type"--if we're going to make judgments about characters' sexuality, I'd say that she was a lesbian. Also, bisexuality does not equal promiscuity; that's just silly. We saw MU!Ezri with Kira, yes, and it was insinuated with Leeta at the end (and if you take the novels into account, the two married some time later), but that's it. Leeta was on screen for all of thirty seconds, flirting with one character, thus hardly justifying the above label as well. I'm removing both references. CrashCart9 ( talk) 20:15, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm considering stubifying this article -- it is laden with long-unaddressed problems such as OR, overwhelming plot trivia, and no real-world perspective. Any substantive objections? -- EEMIV ( talk) 17:02, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
It depends what you call substantive. Does the present status of the article cause any harm, distress or inconvenience? And if the answer is, as I suspect, no why waste time and effort nuking it when the only effect will be to cause, if not harm or distress, then at least potential inconvenience.
More generally I will just say, yet again, that I much preferred Wiki before it started believing it's own hype. Does it matter a fig how "important" or "trivial" an article is or whether it contains "real-world perspective"? Only, I suspect, in the minds of people who have nought else to worry about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.14.29 ( talk) 11:30, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Anyone else notice that in all of the proper DS9 mirror verse episodes (excluding Resurrection given its inverted format) a Ferengi dies in each one; Quark in Crossover, Rom in Through the Looking Glass, Nog in Shattered Mirror, and Brunt in The Emperor's New Cloak. Anyone know whether this was some sort of ongoing joke? Is this worth mentioning in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougie89 ( talk • contribs) 04:10, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Except for the addition of the "Scales of Justice", and the olive branches, Interpol's logo closely resembles the Terran empire's logo.
Perhaps this makes senses as the Empire is missing Justice and Peace. Lent ( talk) 00:49, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Possibly a useful ref for fleshing things out: https://io9.gizmodo.com/everything-we-know-about-the-timeline-of-star-treks-mir-1822127136 Artw ( talk) 19:23, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- Jack Sebastian ( talk) 23:38, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
So at the moment we have a number of rather sprawling episode summaries, which are largely an artifact of how the Mirror Universe would appear in Star Trek prior to Discovery, showing up periodically in largely stand alone episodes. Obviously Discovery’s extended mirror universe plotlind blows this out of the water and what we have now is looking rather bloated. Given all this should we aggressively trim the episode summaries? Merge multi-part stories into a single listing? Or possibly omit them altogether and take a different approach? Open to suggestions. Artw ( talk) 17:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 01:58, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Mirror Universe →
Mirror Universe (Star Trek) –
Mirror universe and
Mirror Universe should be
WP:PRIMARYREDIRECTs to
Parallel universe as a commonly used physics, philosophical and fictional term from which the Star Trek writers drew their ideas. Page was at that location prior to 2014 but was moved unnecessarily.
ZXCVBNM (
TALK)
17:33, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
One thing occurred to me when trimming down the plot summaries - we ahve a lot of character descriptions in there, in particular tracking how characters differ from their Prime universe counterparts. Could the article benefit from a "Notable Mirror Characters" section? Artw ( talk) 23:41, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
User @ Ajd: continues to revert the text to a version that makes an incorrect and anachronistic use of the term "Terran Empire". The incorrect version uses the term "Terran Empire" in reference to a TOS episode (Mirror, Mirror) and to the five DS9 episodes. This is completely incorrect. During the entire run of the episode Mirror, Mirror at no point in dialogue the Empire is named, is just referred as the Empire. In fact expanded universe material like comics and novel gave different names to the empire, which are not important as this article seem to based itself on canon material only. The first coinage of the term "Terran" was used in DS9 episode "Crossover", not before. In all five Mirror episodes of DS9 at no point the term "Terran Empire" was used. The first used of the term "Terran Empire" was in the Enterprise episode "In a Mirror, Darkly". Thus is obvious that is incorrect it usage before that time. HourZerox ( talk) 17:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)