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The connection with Asturian seems to be a tender subject. The two entries might be compared, with mutual advantage. -- Wetman 06:12, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
This just plain does not make sense: The main differences between Mirandese in Portugal and Asturian in Spain are the dominant languages in each region,. I would correct it, but I can't work out what it is supposed to mean. -- Taejo 09:24, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm an Asturian speaker (from Spain) and we use the word "garrafa". It isn't a good example.
And i am not asturian speaker (i am from aragon) and i use garrafa too...actually none of those words were good examples as all of them are used both in spanish and portuguese
I have removed said examples because they are obviously inaccurate. I've heard both carro and coche in Spanish, and the word for "computer" in Spanish is computadora. Grandmasterka 08:33, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
The usual term used in Spain for "computer" is "ordenador", not "computadora"; used in Latin America -- Dantadd 14:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
"Another difference is that Mirandese remains very conservative, while Asturian has changed. " It should be explained in what sense Mirandese is conservative with respect to Asturian... phonology?... lexicon?... grammar?... FilipeS 11:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
The whole article needs a rewrite. I think I even remember reading a better article here a few months (years?) ago (no offense to people who worked in it ever since). The sentence, as some other ones, makes indeed no sense. Both Mirandese and Asturian (meaning the Astur-Leonese dialects spoken in the Asturias Autonomy) surely changed a lot, and I doubt anyone has enough knowledge (of both the dialects and older accounts of Leonese) at this point to make such a statement. I should write a new version of this article as soon as I have some time. 19 May 2006.
Not diference is very similar to portuguese and they portuguese goverment through the Cultural Institutions and indepedent Associations wanted, being not back so cantabrian and the old region of Leon (Palencia, Valladolid, Leon, Zamora, Salamanca), is false at the last time respect the special, anecdoticall traditional historicall writing,and their relations with Portuguese, Leonese and also Galician and castilian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.155.45.166 ( talk • contribs)
The article currently states:
But Lindley Cintra, in Nova Proposta de Classificação dos Dialectos Galego-Portugueses, speaks of riodonorês, guadramilês, mirandês and sendinês. This needs to be checked. FilipeS 21:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Lindley Cintra was admitedly far from being a specialist in Mirandese, and his few lines on this issue are dated (the work was written in the 60s). 'Riodonorês' and 'guadramilês' are two localects spoken (I'm not sure if they still are today) in two villages (Rio-de-Onor and Guadramil) in the Braganza county, at least 50km away from the Mirandese-speaking area. Those were indeed described as Astur-Leonese dialects, but not of the Mirandese branch. Following the studies develloped by the Linguistics Centre of the Univ. of Lisbon and a panel of local experts to get the 1999 law and Ortographic Convention done, Sendinês was considered to be with no doubts a Mirandese dialect, as the main differences lye in a few phonological processes observed in other villages (only never at the same time) and the historical accounts for huge lexical differences were proven unreliable. 'Raiano' is the name given to those dialects spoken in the land border ('raia seca', as opposed to that established by the Douro river), with a deeper castillian influence, namely in the vocalic system and in the lexicon. Although the text you mention wasn't written by me, there are many accounts of reliable authors dividing Mirandese in those three dialects, if you can read Portuguese (which, from your nickname, I guess you can). I tried to find one in English, but had no luck, as all the results headed to Wikipedia or text taken/modified from this article. 19 May 2005
To streamline the Portuguese language article, I am deleting the following text from it, and replacing it with a link to Mirandese:
Feel free to reuse it here, if you find it useful. I was based on this article, anyway. FilipeS 17:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
The mirandese people is a ethnic group different from the portuguese.
This is a complete and total fabrication! There are no feelings of ethnic differentiation in Miranda! I dont even think this unregistered editor should be taken seriously. Or else he is an anonimous vandal. Even if he is from Miranda do Douro, which I doubt, he is probably the only one that thinks the Mirandese are a different nationality or ethnic group. His edits are infatile and he doesn't understand that an encyclopedia is not about what the world is but about what people say (and discuss) the world is! His matter of fact statements, unsupported by any source, show he has no understanding of the social and cultural processes envolved in ethnico-political differentiation. His edits should be treated as vandalism. If he has a case for his statements he should bring it forward in the talk pages before writing such delusions on the multiple articles where he has been adding them. The Ogre 00:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
The mirandese are proud of his langueague, costumes and history, different to the people of Pertual. Miranfree 14:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I respect your opinion but I think that when a people has his own land, his own costumes and his own langueague this people is a nationality. That´s in english, in mirandese and must be in portuguese also. Miranfree 10:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I won't try to refute what Miranfree has said, as this is not the right place for it, but as a Mirandese I should say there has never been a noticeable nationalist or separatist movement in Miranda nor its people feel they are part of something else other than Portugal, as proud as they might be in our specific cultural features. (I'm sorry but I don't have a Wikipedia account to sign with.) 27th March 2007
I think it's pretty ridiculous, to see that flag at the top of this page, above the Portuguese flag. Why is this even related to spain? Mirandese is spoken in Portugal, Miranda do Douro is de facto and de jure part of Portugal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.147.47.220 ( talk) 19:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I've read a lot about mirandese and I've never heard about such a thing as Amazonic Mirandese or Mirandês Amazónico. There's even a citation needed. Is that information even true? I was astonished when I looked at it. Calafalas ( talk) 06:37, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
User Benwing inserted a statement into at least two articles about Astur-Leonese languages (this one and Leonese language) falsely implying that these languages genetically descend from a Portuguese node. This contradicts the established view. The established view is elaborated in various Wikipedia articles on Astur-Leonese languages: western Romance is a dialect continuum with many members, and most of the local vernaculars are not "basilects" of Spanish, Portuguese, or French. Within Iberian Romance, Leonese, Asturias, and Aragonese are not variants of Spanish, but rather Spanish is of comparable rank to them. Again, this has all been articulated in other Wikipedia articles. More particularly, Leonese is not a variety of Portuguese any more than of Spanish. Therefore, user Benwing is in error to choose wording, "here are historical traits which link (Mirandese, Leonese) to Portuguese rather than to Spanish". The key insight is that in western Romance phonology, at least in consonants, Castilian is highly divergent from all the others. The inventory and distribution of consonants in Leonese resemble the Portuguese more than the nearly all the western Romance dialects from Belgium to Lisbon resemble one another closely in these regards. Dale Chock ( talk) 00:51, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Was this done in Parliament in September with effect in January, or what? — Tamfang ( talk) 03:24, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
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The connection with Asturian seems to be a tender subject. The two entries might be compared, with mutual advantage. -- Wetman 06:12, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
This just plain does not make sense: The main differences between Mirandese in Portugal and Asturian in Spain are the dominant languages in each region,. I would correct it, but I can't work out what it is supposed to mean. -- Taejo 09:24, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm an Asturian speaker (from Spain) and we use the word "garrafa". It isn't a good example.
And i am not asturian speaker (i am from aragon) and i use garrafa too...actually none of those words were good examples as all of them are used both in spanish and portuguese
I have removed said examples because they are obviously inaccurate. I've heard both carro and coche in Spanish, and the word for "computer" in Spanish is computadora. Grandmasterka 08:33, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
The usual term used in Spain for "computer" is "ordenador", not "computadora"; used in Latin America -- Dantadd 14:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
"Another difference is that Mirandese remains very conservative, while Asturian has changed. " It should be explained in what sense Mirandese is conservative with respect to Asturian... phonology?... lexicon?... grammar?... FilipeS 11:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
The whole article needs a rewrite. I think I even remember reading a better article here a few months (years?) ago (no offense to people who worked in it ever since). The sentence, as some other ones, makes indeed no sense. Both Mirandese and Asturian (meaning the Astur-Leonese dialects spoken in the Asturias Autonomy) surely changed a lot, and I doubt anyone has enough knowledge (of both the dialects and older accounts of Leonese) at this point to make such a statement. I should write a new version of this article as soon as I have some time. 19 May 2006.
Not diference is very similar to portuguese and they portuguese goverment through the Cultural Institutions and indepedent Associations wanted, being not back so cantabrian and the old region of Leon (Palencia, Valladolid, Leon, Zamora, Salamanca), is false at the last time respect the special, anecdoticall traditional historicall writing,and their relations with Portuguese, Leonese and also Galician and castilian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.155.45.166 ( talk • contribs)
The article currently states:
But Lindley Cintra, in Nova Proposta de Classificação dos Dialectos Galego-Portugueses, speaks of riodonorês, guadramilês, mirandês and sendinês. This needs to be checked. FilipeS 21:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Lindley Cintra was admitedly far from being a specialist in Mirandese, and his few lines on this issue are dated (the work was written in the 60s). 'Riodonorês' and 'guadramilês' are two localects spoken (I'm not sure if they still are today) in two villages (Rio-de-Onor and Guadramil) in the Braganza county, at least 50km away from the Mirandese-speaking area. Those were indeed described as Astur-Leonese dialects, but not of the Mirandese branch. Following the studies develloped by the Linguistics Centre of the Univ. of Lisbon and a panel of local experts to get the 1999 law and Ortographic Convention done, Sendinês was considered to be with no doubts a Mirandese dialect, as the main differences lye in a few phonological processes observed in other villages (only never at the same time) and the historical accounts for huge lexical differences were proven unreliable. 'Raiano' is the name given to those dialects spoken in the land border ('raia seca', as opposed to that established by the Douro river), with a deeper castillian influence, namely in the vocalic system and in the lexicon. Although the text you mention wasn't written by me, there are many accounts of reliable authors dividing Mirandese in those three dialects, if you can read Portuguese (which, from your nickname, I guess you can). I tried to find one in English, but had no luck, as all the results headed to Wikipedia or text taken/modified from this article. 19 May 2005
To streamline the Portuguese language article, I am deleting the following text from it, and replacing it with a link to Mirandese:
Feel free to reuse it here, if you find it useful. I was based on this article, anyway. FilipeS 17:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
The mirandese people is a ethnic group different from the portuguese.
This is a complete and total fabrication! There are no feelings of ethnic differentiation in Miranda! I dont even think this unregistered editor should be taken seriously. Or else he is an anonimous vandal. Even if he is from Miranda do Douro, which I doubt, he is probably the only one that thinks the Mirandese are a different nationality or ethnic group. His edits are infatile and he doesn't understand that an encyclopedia is not about what the world is but about what people say (and discuss) the world is! His matter of fact statements, unsupported by any source, show he has no understanding of the social and cultural processes envolved in ethnico-political differentiation. His edits should be treated as vandalism. If he has a case for his statements he should bring it forward in the talk pages before writing such delusions on the multiple articles where he has been adding them. The Ogre 00:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
The mirandese are proud of his langueague, costumes and history, different to the people of Pertual. Miranfree 14:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I respect your opinion but I think that when a people has his own land, his own costumes and his own langueague this people is a nationality. That´s in english, in mirandese and must be in portuguese also. Miranfree 10:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I won't try to refute what Miranfree has said, as this is not the right place for it, but as a Mirandese I should say there has never been a noticeable nationalist or separatist movement in Miranda nor its people feel they are part of something else other than Portugal, as proud as they might be in our specific cultural features. (I'm sorry but I don't have a Wikipedia account to sign with.) 27th March 2007
I think it's pretty ridiculous, to see that flag at the top of this page, above the Portuguese flag. Why is this even related to spain? Mirandese is spoken in Portugal, Miranda do Douro is de facto and de jure part of Portugal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.147.47.220 ( talk) 19:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I've read a lot about mirandese and I've never heard about such a thing as Amazonic Mirandese or Mirandês Amazónico. There's even a citation needed. Is that information even true? I was astonished when I looked at it. Calafalas ( talk) 06:37, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
User Benwing inserted a statement into at least two articles about Astur-Leonese languages (this one and Leonese language) falsely implying that these languages genetically descend from a Portuguese node. This contradicts the established view. The established view is elaborated in various Wikipedia articles on Astur-Leonese languages: western Romance is a dialect continuum with many members, and most of the local vernaculars are not "basilects" of Spanish, Portuguese, or French. Within Iberian Romance, Leonese, Asturias, and Aragonese are not variants of Spanish, but rather Spanish is of comparable rank to them. Again, this has all been articulated in other Wikipedia articles. More particularly, Leonese is not a variety of Portuguese any more than of Spanish. Therefore, user Benwing is in error to choose wording, "here are historical traits which link (Mirandese, Leonese) to Portuguese rather than to Spanish". The key insight is that in western Romance phonology, at least in consonants, Castilian is highly divergent from all the others. The inventory and distribution of consonants in Leonese resemble the Portuguese more than the nearly all the western Romance dialects from Belgium to Lisbon resemble one another closely in these regards. Dale Chock ( talk) 00:51, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Was this done in Parliament in September with effect in January, or what? — Tamfang ( talk) 03:24, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
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