![]() | Minoan civilization was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on March 16, 2005. | ||||||||||||
Current status: Former good article nominee |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Archive 1 |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2019 and 8 May 2019. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Amb2453.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 8 May 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
HBarch.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Pim3nt3l.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 04:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
First of all we don't really know about the dates, these are all hypotheses. Secondly, "Subminoan" maybe means that the island was totally flooded by the Santorini event, therefore wiping out any civilisation on this island? Minoa going submarine, right? Just asking... -- 178.197.236.244 ( talk) 14:53, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
This article should have more to say about the influence of Egypt on this civilization. Any scholarly article or book you read about the subject, will start with the fact that Minoan Crete rose under Egyptian cultural influence. Whether it be in the arts, the architecture, their writing system, their government system and even its religion. They all show strong Egyptian influence. And this article should reflect that more than it does. I would appreciate it if someone could pick this up. Another thing is the fact that the Minoans had economic and diplomatic relations with Anatolia and Syria (and Egypt ofcourse). But none with Europe. Opening up with a line saying that Crete was 'the European missing link' misrepresents the reality back then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rarevogel ( talk • contribs) 14:22, 18 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller ( talk • contribs)
They were mostly influenced by the Cycladic culture and in ~ 2.500 BC they were trading with the Cycladic islands. No one can say that they did not trade with Europe , we can only say that we don't know. Scienceandhistorygreat1 ( talk) 09:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Minoan civilization. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:49, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to enhance the map with more minoan sites to quicklink to. As such, I'm going to build, view and test and beta version here before updating the mainpage. Let me know if this is not the purpose of Talk page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Remedia8 ( talk • contribs) 18:04, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
This article has used BCE since mid-March of 2013, with some minor instances of backing and forthing. The instances I saw, skimming the history, have been speedily reverted to BCE. Most recently, an editor put it back to BC, commenting "Original article style reinstated". WP:ERA says "Do not change the established era style in an article unless there are reasons specific to its content." It says nothing about "original" style, and I will argue that three years of stylistic stability is enough to "establish" a style. This is not a Christian ecclesiastical topic, so BCE is perfectly appropriate. Your thoughts? Just plain Bill ( talk) 18:38, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
The current section on warfare is woefully inadequate. The article assumes that "Pax Minoica" refers only to a lack of violence whatsoever. No mention is made of the vastly superior Minoan navy that we know existed, since the Greeks invented an entirely new word for it ( thalassocracy). I'm going to try to fix this section. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) ( talk) 08:32, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Considering that the species is generally thought to have arisen som 200 000 years ago, I removed the few words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kurtdriver ( talk • contribs) 17:45, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
There appears to be a line of keyboard spam at the top of the article that isn't showing up in the editor, so I can't remove it. The fact that it doesn't show up in editor is making me a little worried, could this be underlying Wikipedia bug/vulnerability? Screenshots attached incase this is somehow a localized/isolated thing (I swear I'm not locally messing with the html, a friend of mine can see it too).
Editor view — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.76.221 ( talk) 18:25, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
It looks like someone vandalized the template (or several) being used - I deleted it from the temp but it doesn't appear to have worked. Chrissymad ❯❯❯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 18:29, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
cheers :) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
82.38.76.221 (
talk) 18:32, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
I've created a new subsection under Art for metal vessels and have put in a few sentences with the intention of putting in a detailed entry over the next couple of days. However, it's occurred to me that the other subsections under Art are extremely small and need a lot of expansion (and in fact there is a lot more that needs to be written on Minoan art to fill this out), so if I put in my 800-odd words on Minoan metal vessels, it will be well out of proportion with the other Art subsections. I see that under the Pottery subsection there is a link to a larger article on the topic. I'm looking for opinions on if I should just go ahead and add my piece to this article or if I should go and create a new article and link to it through here. (I'm new here)-- Dina ( talk) 13:32, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
I've decided to go ahead and expand this subsection in the hope that it will encourage others to expand the rest of the Minoan art section. Minoan art is a huge field and really needs better representation here. -- Dina ( talk) 04:44, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Minoan civilization. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:29, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
The section Warfare and the "Minoan peace" is missing a citation. Acrodgers ( talk) 02:36, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
There were several reasons I changed the image in the infobox and moved it:
- the map in the infobox is too small to be read, making it pretty much useless
- that map can be more usefully displayed by the geography section, which lists most of the places on the map
- the map currently by the geography section gives minimal information while taking up lots of screen space
- since this is the Minoan Civilization page, an image illustrating Minoan Civilization is at least as appropriate in the infobox, and I would say more appropiate, than a simple map
Though some WP articles on societies, histories, or civilizations have a map in the infobox, many do not: History of India, History of Japan, Inca society, and many others have landscapes, buildings, or cultural objects in the infobox.
I'd like to reinstitute my changes, but I will wait to see if anyone comments. The Uncle of History ( talk) 14:28, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
I suggest just removing the Etymology section. We can leave the statement in the first paragraph that Minoan comes from Minos. But I don't see any reason to have a whole section about where the term came from. It's not irrelevant, but it's a very minor scholarly quarrel that almost no general reader is going to have any interest in. The Uncle of History ( talk) 23:08, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
It seems that whenever during an edit I click show preview, then click save changes, I do NOT get prompted for an explanation of the changes. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong? Anyway, that's why there is no explanation of my changes to the religion para. I've rephrased it and added cites which are actually meaningful, since the previous ones weren't, having no page numbers. I've also removed the term "matriarchal," not because I think it's necessarily wrong, but because as it stands now the cites don't verify the use of this term to describe Minoan religion by reliable sources. The Uncle of History ( talk) 16:05, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Minoan civilization. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:59, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Interestingly those still on the island are their direct decendants. We know this thanks to a breakthrough study published by Nature. [1] Before this there were theories on their origins. Evans suggested North African. Also Theories on where they went when the left. What we now now is that the Minoans originated from Crete and their descendants are modern Cretans. We also know that the Minoans were related to modern Greeks and to a lesser extent ancient Anatolians. Soo.. this is awkward... The proper term for this civilisation should be Proto Greek. Reaper7 ( talk) 13:03, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
DNA research in 2019 showed that they were Greeks . Fortunately, modern science solved this mystery. Scienceandhistorygreat1 ( talk) 09:43, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
According to this website, the catastrophe the ended the LMIB phase happened in 1490 BC. NOTE: Sonchis showed Solon the "Atlantis" enscriptions in 590 BC. Sonchis said they were 9,000 years old. But, we know that Atlantis was the Minoan Civilization. If, instead of 9,000 years, the enscriptions actually read, 900 years, then 1490 BC is again indicated. http://projectsx.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/lessons/les/26.html
Hate to burst the bubble but Atlantis isn't real. Any reputable historian does not take it seriously. It makes sense if one thinks logically. Allegedly (Atlantis) the most advanced civilisation on Earth disappears without a trace in a single day, and there are zero references to it in history and archeology, from ANY neighbouring civilization. Not a couple of references, not 1, but 0, for 9300 years. Until Plato comes along and says, "by the way, there was this place called Atlantis".
The Platonic dialogues Timaeus and Critias, where Atlantis is mentioned, are considered to be political commentary on the socioeconomic issues plaguing Greece at th time they were written. 77.250.197.189 ( talk) 04:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
1. "Although Evans' 1931 claim that the term was "unminted" before he used it was called a "brazen suggestion" by Karadimas and Momigliano, he coined its archaeological meaning."
The sentence does not flow well. I could be improved.
2. "Also mentioned are Cretan cities (such as Amnisos, Phaistos, Kydonia and Knossos) and toponyms reconstructed as in the Cyclades or the Greek mainland. If the values of these Egyptian names are accurate, the pharaoh did not value LMIII Knossos more than other states in the region."
I don't understand the meaning/function of the second instance of the word "as". Is the right word "states" or "cities"?
3. "After about a century of partial recovery, most Cretan cities and palaces declined during the 13th century BC (LHIIIB-LMIIIB). The last Linear A archives date to LMIIIA, contemporary with LHIIIA."
What does "LH" stand for? The Minoan chronology table does not explain it.
4. The list of major Minoan archeological sites lists Karfi and describes it as a "refuge site".
What does that mean?
5. "copper-containing Cyprus" or copper-producing Cyprus?
6. "The prevalence of edible molluscs in site material and artistic representations of marine fish and animals (including the distinctive LM IIIC "Octopus" stirrup jar), indicate appreciation and occasional use of fish by the economy."
What's the intention of the word "occasional" in the context of the sentence?
7. "In contrast to Egyptian frescoes, Crete had true frescoes. Probably the most famous fresco is the bull-leaping fresco."
What kind of frescoes are the Egyptian frescoes if they are not "true" frescos?
8. "Keith Branigan estimated that 95 percent of Minoan "weapons" had hafting (hilts or handles) which would have prevented their use as such."
Can somebody explain the meaning of weapons with handles that would have prevented their use. I don't understand.
9. "The researchers found that the Minoan skeletons were genetically very similar to modern-day Europeans" is followed by "They were very similar to Neolithic Europeans and very similar to present day-Cretans" in the same paragraph.
The use of "very similar" is repetitive.
ICE77 ( talk) 07:48, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
This isp edit in April 2017 changed the table of dates that had been here for ages, unsourced, to one sourced & referenced from a book of 1965. Unfortunately, this puts us well out of whack with the much larger, and multi-source referenced table at Minoan chronology. In particular the current table here begins EM1 at 2600 BC, surely a view no one today holds? It was 3650 BC before (although the old table ended LM at 1450, also unsustainable). At Minoan pottery, before seeing the old table, I added the table with changed dates taken from here (also linked to by other academic websites), which is close to both the old table here, and the one at Minoan chronology (EM1 begins 3500). In the MM they actually match up at points. Minor fiddling was needed where 2 periods are run together in the source - I just split the difference. Notoriously no one source agrees with another, but this revised table fits much better with other recent sources, & if no one objects I will copy it here. Or let me know queries. User:Botteville I think did the big table, back in 2006. This is my revised table:
3500–2900 BC [1] | EMI | Prepalatial |
2900–2300 BC | EMII | |
2300–2100 BC | EMIII | |
2100–1900 BC | MMIA | |
1900–1800 BC | MMIB | Protopalatial (Old Palace Period) |
1800–1750 BC | MMIIA | |
1750-1700 BC | MMIIB | Neopalatial (New Palace Period) |
1700–1650 BC | MMIIIA | |
1650–1600 BC | MMIIIB | |
1600–1500 BC | LMIA | |
1500–1450 BC | LMIB | Postpalatial (at Knossos; Final Palace Period) |
1450–1400 BC | LMII | |
1400–1350 BC | LMIIIA | |
1350–1100 BC | LMIIIB |
Source:
Johnbod ( talk) 02:37, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
Before long YOU are going to be the expert. I see you have discovered the problem right away. Evans, of course, did the original chronology. He was assisted in that by his father John, one of the pioneers of the concept of the stone age. Blegen picked that up and extended it to the mainland to make it all consistent. Pendlebury did more analysis, and Hutchinson, and so on. The number of sites containing this material is now very large. Everyone who writes a book on it seems to have his own variation. Lately it has been getting more technical, with more carbon dates and tree ring analysis and what not. The question for us is, what version are we going to use? Yes, I put the original in. I think I got it from Hutchinson, I'm not sure now. It promptly began a long series of alterations by afficionados who had read this or that book. What was I to do, fight with them? Everyone thought he was right based on the scholars he had read. What to do now. You're working on it. Do whatever you want to do! I can only give some general thoughts.
Best of luck on this. Don't think Wikipedians are just going to GIVE it to you. These articles seem to be in stubborn hands who don't want to relinquish them. I've volunteered to redo Knossos based on the survey but I expect a full-scale war over it. The article is bad, but no one wants to let you fix it. I suppose it is THEIR beloved article. I've taken some time to write you this, but I'm not done finding pottery sources for you in Commons. The Museum at Heraklion has a lot of pictures. Athens is another source of museums. Got to go now. Ciao. Botteville ( talk) 00:17, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Weblink to Daily Mail article about discovery of an ancient Greek boat, not attributed to Minoan Culture GirthSummit (blether) 17:11, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
"Minoan" is an English word. What did these people call themselves? 77.250.197.189 ( talk) 04:28, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
Isn't the picture captioned "Elite Minoan Women" a detail of the one captioned "Ladies of the Minoan Court[...]"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.36.25.78 ( talk) 18:01, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
The section on Minoan women doesn't reflect academic writing, is inadequate in sourcing and sounds as if it was written originally as a high school essay. I don't know enough about the topic to fix it. But wanted to flag that something is off. 1967Norway ( talk) 07:41, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
I think they were. [1] [2] Reaper7 ( talk) 15:52, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
"Proto Greeks" were in Epirus, according to both ancient and modern sources. Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 15:04, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Before the Minoan domination in the Aegean, Cycladic culture and Neolithic Greece were in that area. Cycladic culture was included and today I added Neolithic Greece. I don't know why but a guy deleted both of them twice. Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 15:03, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Neolithic Greece includes the entire Greece, Crete has several Neolithic sites. "I notice a lot of your edits get reverted" A lot of my early edits were getting reverted because I did not know how to edit the sources but the problem was solved. Now let me write only about Neolithic Greece and not Cycladic culture, I can understand and I accept your opinion about Cycladic culture but the Neolithic Greece refusal is simply ridiculous. And I am going to add info about Crete in Neolithic Greece... Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 10:39, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Neolithic Greece is general and it is about Neolithic areas within modern day Greek borders. I personally added info about Neolithic Crete. Neolithic Greece includes a variety of sites from caves to highly developed settlements with fortifications. Yes, the problem was solved. Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 16:38, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
You see other people but you don't see yourself. Instead of answering about this topic you focus on me in other topics. Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 18:28, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
About Neolithic Greece Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 18:40, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
He said that he "proposed to apply" - if we are going to split hairs as in "apply not invent" then we must also be honest and acknowledge that "I proposed to apply" means the same as "I suggested that we name it" and the sentence "Evans said that he applied it, not invented it." is best dropped from the article altogether. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:C13E:33F5:2212:CD77 ( talk) 10:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
So there is a whole section for Minoan Women, but there is no mention of the apparent matriarchy in that entire section? Seems badly organized. 167.57.31.50 ( talk) 14:39, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
A week ago the article said the Minoans started at 3500 BCE. 2 days ago it said 2100 BCE, and then went back to 3500 BCE. Now it's back to 2100 BCE. What's happening to the origin date?
ADT's wiki account ( talk) 01:03, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
"From the Early Bronze Age (3500 BC to 2600 BC), the Minoan civilization on Crete showed a promise of greatness." I have referenced the source and was unable to find this fact in the source. Furthermore the date range has changed without explanation, and quotations were added around promise of greatness (suggesting it is from a text), while the source remains the same. A) what source did this fact originally come from and B) did the person who edited the statement do so because it was incorrect or out of fradulent editing? 149.125.108.125 ( talk) 20:56, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2024 and 16 May 2024. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Vic020699Fo (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Vic020699Fo ( talk) 00:43, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Minoan civilization was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on March 16, 2005. | ||||||||||||
Current status: Former good article nominee |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Archive 1 |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2019 and 8 May 2019. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Amb2453.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 8 May 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
HBarch.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Pim3nt3l.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 04:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
First of all we don't really know about the dates, these are all hypotheses. Secondly, "Subminoan" maybe means that the island was totally flooded by the Santorini event, therefore wiping out any civilisation on this island? Minoa going submarine, right? Just asking... -- 178.197.236.244 ( talk) 14:53, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
This article should have more to say about the influence of Egypt on this civilization. Any scholarly article or book you read about the subject, will start with the fact that Minoan Crete rose under Egyptian cultural influence. Whether it be in the arts, the architecture, their writing system, their government system and even its religion. They all show strong Egyptian influence. And this article should reflect that more than it does. I would appreciate it if someone could pick this up. Another thing is the fact that the Minoans had economic and diplomatic relations with Anatolia and Syria (and Egypt ofcourse). But none with Europe. Opening up with a line saying that Crete was 'the European missing link' misrepresents the reality back then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rarevogel ( talk • contribs) 14:22, 18 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller ( talk • contribs)
They were mostly influenced by the Cycladic culture and in ~ 2.500 BC they were trading with the Cycladic islands. No one can say that they did not trade with Europe , we can only say that we don't know. Scienceandhistorygreat1 ( talk) 09:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Minoan civilization. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:49, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to enhance the map with more minoan sites to quicklink to. As such, I'm going to build, view and test and beta version here before updating the mainpage. Let me know if this is not the purpose of Talk page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Remedia8 ( talk • contribs) 18:04, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
This article has used BCE since mid-March of 2013, with some minor instances of backing and forthing. The instances I saw, skimming the history, have been speedily reverted to BCE. Most recently, an editor put it back to BC, commenting "Original article style reinstated". WP:ERA says "Do not change the established era style in an article unless there are reasons specific to its content." It says nothing about "original" style, and I will argue that three years of stylistic stability is enough to "establish" a style. This is not a Christian ecclesiastical topic, so BCE is perfectly appropriate. Your thoughts? Just plain Bill ( talk) 18:38, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
The current section on warfare is woefully inadequate. The article assumes that "Pax Minoica" refers only to a lack of violence whatsoever. No mention is made of the vastly superior Minoan navy that we know existed, since the Greeks invented an entirely new word for it ( thalassocracy). I'm going to try to fix this section. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) ( talk) 08:32, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Considering that the species is generally thought to have arisen som 200 000 years ago, I removed the few words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kurtdriver ( talk • contribs) 17:45, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
There appears to be a line of keyboard spam at the top of the article that isn't showing up in the editor, so I can't remove it. The fact that it doesn't show up in editor is making me a little worried, could this be underlying Wikipedia bug/vulnerability? Screenshots attached incase this is somehow a localized/isolated thing (I swear I'm not locally messing with the html, a friend of mine can see it too).
Editor view — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.76.221 ( talk) 18:25, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
It looks like someone vandalized the template (or several) being used - I deleted it from the temp but it doesn't appear to have worked. Chrissymad ❯❯❯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 18:29, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
cheers :) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
82.38.76.221 (
talk) 18:32, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
I've created a new subsection under Art for metal vessels and have put in a few sentences with the intention of putting in a detailed entry over the next couple of days. However, it's occurred to me that the other subsections under Art are extremely small and need a lot of expansion (and in fact there is a lot more that needs to be written on Minoan art to fill this out), so if I put in my 800-odd words on Minoan metal vessels, it will be well out of proportion with the other Art subsections. I see that under the Pottery subsection there is a link to a larger article on the topic. I'm looking for opinions on if I should just go ahead and add my piece to this article or if I should go and create a new article and link to it through here. (I'm new here)-- Dina ( talk) 13:32, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
I've decided to go ahead and expand this subsection in the hope that it will encourage others to expand the rest of the Minoan art section. Minoan art is a huge field and really needs better representation here. -- Dina ( talk) 04:44, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Minoan civilization. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:29, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
The section Warfare and the "Minoan peace" is missing a citation. Acrodgers ( talk) 02:36, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
There were several reasons I changed the image in the infobox and moved it:
- the map in the infobox is too small to be read, making it pretty much useless
- that map can be more usefully displayed by the geography section, which lists most of the places on the map
- the map currently by the geography section gives minimal information while taking up lots of screen space
- since this is the Minoan Civilization page, an image illustrating Minoan Civilization is at least as appropriate in the infobox, and I would say more appropiate, than a simple map
Though some WP articles on societies, histories, or civilizations have a map in the infobox, many do not: History of India, History of Japan, Inca society, and many others have landscapes, buildings, or cultural objects in the infobox.
I'd like to reinstitute my changes, but I will wait to see if anyone comments. The Uncle of History ( talk) 14:28, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
I suggest just removing the Etymology section. We can leave the statement in the first paragraph that Minoan comes from Minos. But I don't see any reason to have a whole section about where the term came from. It's not irrelevant, but it's a very minor scholarly quarrel that almost no general reader is going to have any interest in. The Uncle of History ( talk) 23:08, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
It seems that whenever during an edit I click show preview, then click save changes, I do NOT get prompted for an explanation of the changes. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong? Anyway, that's why there is no explanation of my changes to the religion para. I've rephrased it and added cites which are actually meaningful, since the previous ones weren't, having no page numbers. I've also removed the term "matriarchal," not because I think it's necessarily wrong, but because as it stands now the cites don't verify the use of this term to describe Minoan religion by reliable sources. The Uncle of History ( talk) 16:05, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Minoan civilization. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:59, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Interestingly those still on the island are their direct decendants. We know this thanks to a breakthrough study published by Nature. [1] Before this there were theories on their origins. Evans suggested North African. Also Theories on where they went when the left. What we now now is that the Minoans originated from Crete and their descendants are modern Cretans. We also know that the Minoans were related to modern Greeks and to a lesser extent ancient Anatolians. Soo.. this is awkward... The proper term for this civilisation should be Proto Greek. Reaper7 ( talk) 13:03, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
DNA research in 2019 showed that they were Greeks . Fortunately, modern science solved this mystery. Scienceandhistorygreat1 ( talk) 09:43, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
According to this website, the catastrophe the ended the LMIB phase happened in 1490 BC. NOTE: Sonchis showed Solon the "Atlantis" enscriptions in 590 BC. Sonchis said they were 9,000 years old. But, we know that Atlantis was the Minoan Civilization. If, instead of 9,000 years, the enscriptions actually read, 900 years, then 1490 BC is again indicated. http://projectsx.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/lessons/les/26.html
Hate to burst the bubble but Atlantis isn't real. Any reputable historian does not take it seriously. It makes sense if one thinks logically. Allegedly (Atlantis) the most advanced civilisation on Earth disappears without a trace in a single day, and there are zero references to it in history and archeology, from ANY neighbouring civilization. Not a couple of references, not 1, but 0, for 9300 years. Until Plato comes along and says, "by the way, there was this place called Atlantis".
The Platonic dialogues Timaeus and Critias, where Atlantis is mentioned, are considered to be political commentary on the socioeconomic issues plaguing Greece at th time they were written. 77.250.197.189 ( talk) 04:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
1. "Although Evans' 1931 claim that the term was "unminted" before he used it was called a "brazen suggestion" by Karadimas and Momigliano, he coined its archaeological meaning."
The sentence does not flow well. I could be improved.
2. "Also mentioned are Cretan cities (such as Amnisos, Phaistos, Kydonia and Knossos) and toponyms reconstructed as in the Cyclades or the Greek mainland. If the values of these Egyptian names are accurate, the pharaoh did not value LMIII Knossos more than other states in the region."
I don't understand the meaning/function of the second instance of the word "as". Is the right word "states" or "cities"?
3. "After about a century of partial recovery, most Cretan cities and palaces declined during the 13th century BC (LHIIIB-LMIIIB). The last Linear A archives date to LMIIIA, contemporary with LHIIIA."
What does "LH" stand for? The Minoan chronology table does not explain it.
4. The list of major Minoan archeological sites lists Karfi and describes it as a "refuge site".
What does that mean?
5. "copper-containing Cyprus" or copper-producing Cyprus?
6. "The prevalence of edible molluscs in site material and artistic representations of marine fish and animals (including the distinctive LM IIIC "Octopus" stirrup jar), indicate appreciation and occasional use of fish by the economy."
What's the intention of the word "occasional" in the context of the sentence?
7. "In contrast to Egyptian frescoes, Crete had true frescoes. Probably the most famous fresco is the bull-leaping fresco."
What kind of frescoes are the Egyptian frescoes if they are not "true" frescos?
8. "Keith Branigan estimated that 95 percent of Minoan "weapons" had hafting (hilts or handles) which would have prevented their use as such."
Can somebody explain the meaning of weapons with handles that would have prevented their use. I don't understand.
9. "The researchers found that the Minoan skeletons were genetically very similar to modern-day Europeans" is followed by "They were very similar to Neolithic Europeans and very similar to present day-Cretans" in the same paragraph.
The use of "very similar" is repetitive.
ICE77 ( talk) 07:48, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
This isp edit in April 2017 changed the table of dates that had been here for ages, unsourced, to one sourced & referenced from a book of 1965. Unfortunately, this puts us well out of whack with the much larger, and multi-source referenced table at Minoan chronology. In particular the current table here begins EM1 at 2600 BC, surely a view no one today holds? It was 3650 BC before (although the old table ended LM at 1450, also unsustainable). At Minoan pottery, before seeing the old table, I added the table with changed dates taken from here (also linked to by other academic websites), which is close to both the old table here, and the one at Minoan chronology (EM1 begins 3500). In the MM they actually match up at points. Minor fiddling was needed where 2 periods are run together in the source - I just split the difference. Notoriously no one source agrees with another, but this revised table fits much better with other recent sources, & if no one objects I will copy it here. Or let me know queries. User:Botteville I think did the big table, back in 2006. This is my revised table:
3500–2900 BC [1] | EMI | Prepalatial |
2900–2300 BC | EMII | |
2300–2100 BC | EMIII | |
2100–1900 BC | MMIA | |
1900–1800 BC | MMIB | Protopalatial (Old Palace Period) |
1800–1750 BC | MMIIA | |
1750-1700 BC | MMIIB | Neopalatial (New Palace Period) |
1700–1650 BC | MMIIIA | |
1650–1600 BC | MMIIIB | |
1600–1500 BC | LMIA | |
1500–1450 BC | LMIB | Postpalatial (at Knossos; Final Palace Period) |
1450–1400 BC | LMII | |
1400–1350 BC | LMIIIA | |
1350–1100 BC | LMIIIB |
Source:
Johnbod ( talk) 02:37, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
Before long YOU are going to be the expert. I see you have discovered the problem right away. Evans, of course, did the original chronology. He was assisted in that by his father John, one of the pioneers of the concept of the stone age. Blegen picked that up and extended it to the mainland to make it all consistent. Pendlebury did more analysis, and Hutchinson, and so on. The number of sites containing this material is now very large. Everyone who writes a book on it seems to have his own variation. Lately it has been getting more technical, with more carbon dates and tree ring analysis and what not. The question for us is, what version are we going to use? Yes, I put the original in. I think I got it from Hutchinson, I'm not sure now. It promptly began a long series of alterations by afficionados who had read this or that book. What was I to do, fight with them? Everyone thought he was right based on the scholars he had read. What to do now. You're working on it. Do whatever you want to do! I can only give some general thoughts.
Best of luck on this. Don't think Wikipedians are just going to GIVE it to you. These articles seem to be in stubborn hands who don't want to relinquish them. I've volunteered to redo Knossos based on the survey but I expect a full-scale war over it. The article is bad, but no one wants to let you fix it. I suppose it is THEIR beloved article. I've taken some time to write you this, but I'm not done finding pottery sources for you in Commons. The Museum at Heraklion has a lot of pictures. Athens is another source of museums. Got to go now. Ciao. Botteville ( talk) 00:17, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Weblink to Daily Mail article about discovery of an ancient Greek boat, not attributed to Minoan Culture GirthSummit (blether) 17:11, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
"Minoan" is an English word. What did these people call themselves? 77.250.197.189 ( talk) 04:28, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
Isn't the picture captioned "Elite Minoan Women" a detail of the one captioned "Ladies of the Minoan Court[...]"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.36.25.78 ( talk) 18:01, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
The section on Minoan women doesn't reflect academic writing, is inadequate in sourcing and sounds as if it was written originally as a high school essay. I don't know enough about the topic to fix it. But wanted to flag that something is off. 1967Norway ( talk) 07:41, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
I think they were. [1] [2] Reaper7 ( talk) 15:52, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
"Proto Greeks" were in Epirus, according to both ancient and modern sources. Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 15:04, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Before the Minoan domination in the Aegean, Cycladic culture and Neolithic Greece were in that area. Cycladic culture was included and today I added Neolithic Greece. I don't know why but a guy deleted both of them twice. Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 15:03, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Neolithic Greece includes the entire Greece, Crete has several Neolithic sites. "I notice a lot of your edits get reverted" A lot of my early edits were getting reverted because I did not know how to edit the sources but the problem was solved. Now let me write only about Neolithic Greece and not Cycladic culture, I can understand and I accept your opinion about Cycladic culture but the Neolithic Greece refusal is simply ridiculous. And I am going to add info about Crete in Neolithic Greece... Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 10:39, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Neolithic Greece is general and it is about Neolithic areas within modern day Greek borders. I personally added info about Neolithic Crete. Neolithic Greece includes a variety of sites from caves to highly developed settlements with fortifications. Yes, the problem was solved. Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 16:38, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
You see other people but you don't see yourself. Instead of answering about this topic you focus on me in other topics. Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 18:28, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
About Neolithic Greece Historyandsciencelearn ( talk) 18:40, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
He said that he "proposed to apply" - if we are going to split hairs as in "apply not invent" then we must also be honest and acknowledge that "I proposed to apply" means the same as "I suggested that we name it" and the sentence "Evans said that he applied it, not invented it." is best dropped from the article altogether. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:C13E:33F5:2212:CD77 ( talk) 10:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
So there is a whole section for Minoan Women, but there is no mention of the apparent matriarchy in that entire section? Seems badly organized. 167.57.31.50 ( talk) 14:39, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
A week ago the article said the Minoans started at 3500 BCE. 2 days ago it said 2100 BCE, and then went back to 3500 BCE. Now it's back to 2100 BCE. What's happening to the origin date?
ADT's wiki account ( talk) 01:03, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
"From the Early Bronze Age (3500 BC to 2600 BC), the Minoan civilization on Crete showed a promise of greatness." I have referenced the source and was unable to find this fact in the source. Furthermore the date range has changed without explanation, and quotations were added around promise of greatness (suggesting it is from a text), while the source remains the same. A) what source did this fact originally come from and B) did the person who edited the statement do so because it was incorrect or out of fradulent editing? 149.125.108.125 ( talk) 20:56, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2024 and 16 May 2024. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Vic020699Fo (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Vic020699Fo ( talk) 00:43, 22 March 2024 (UTC)