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This article is written in
Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose. On the basis of evidence presented by Huw immediately below, I am striking my support vote and changing it to oppose. I was hoping to eliminate the parenthetical qualifier, but confronted by very similar entities with qualifiers such as "(Malaysia)", "(Thailand)" or "(Ethiopia)", I see this nomination as selective, rather than all-encompassing and would now support this type of change only if it were done as a mass nomination of all such ministries.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)01:09, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Requested move 1 October 2017
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Support per mass nomination. None of these ministries has the exact same title, thus making the parenthetical qualifiers indeed unnecessary. No information would be lost to users — if anyone still prefers to type the longer titles with qualifiers, such titles will continue to exist as redirects.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)03:52, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose, per Hydronium Hydroxide and because ministries of many countries will have very similar names and listing them with the country descriptor avoids confusion. I'm sorry to oppose this, because of the hard work and the informative good faith list created by the nominator.
Randy Kryn (
talk)
05:00, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Country disambiguators are helpful when you are uncertain of some long-winded ministry name but certain of the country you want this information on. Also, it must be standard to have country disambiguators for the ministries with names common to several countries, which are probably the more important ones (although, how is it that Japan is the only country with a Ministry of the Navy?).
Dhtwiki (
talk)
07:35, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Removing the country doesn't help the reader in the least and instead it makes it much harder to distinguish between a raft of what in many cases are quite ambiguous and similarly-titled articles. To put it in policy terms, many if not all of the proposed titles fail on a couple of fronts, notably recognizability and precision. Per policy, a good title is one that unambiguously identifies a subject so that someone familiar with (though not an expert in) the subject will clearly recognize it. I think it's a stretch to assume that non-experts will be able to successfully discern which is which when presented with titles like (say): the
Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism versus the
Ministry of Tourism, Culture and Sport, or
Ministry of Defence and National Security versus
Ministry of Defense and National Security. I think even experts would struggle with that.
╠╣uw[
talk11:36, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose There may be only one article with these names but it's only a matter of time before another one comes along with the same name and we are forced to disambiguate and correct all the wiki links that have been created in the mean time. Echoing Dhtwiki, I refuse to believe that Uganda is the only country to ever had a Ministry of Local Government.--
Obi2canibe (
talk)15:49, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose per above; these minor differences are not consistently maintained in sources, so this is a
WP:SMALLDIFFERENCES failure. A large number of these are also translations, also not given consistently in sources. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 02:42, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose the "(country)" disambiguator ensures that readers are aware of if the page is the one they're looking for. The names of these ministries will inevitably change, and perhaps overlap, which would make it harder to maintain and do cleanup of incoming links when that happens. ----
Patar knight - chat/contributions17:13, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Supportiff they are truly unambiguous. If not, the base title needs to be created as a disambiguation or redirected to a relevant page that serves as one. --
Tavix(
talk)18:02, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose while there may not currently be any other Wikipedia pages for ministries of these names, there's no reason to believe that they don't exist, or won't exist in the future. For two examples, I find it hard to believe that Japan is the only country to have ever had a Ministry of the Navy, or that Serbia is the only country to have ever had a Ministry of Religion. Even if it is true, the move effectively creates a
WP:EGG.
power~enwiki (
π,
ν)
18:17, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose as per Huwmanbeing and Obi2canibe, as well as per
WP:NCGAL and
WP:SMALLDETAILS. Many of these names comprise either common terms that are not unambiguous and/or names that are so similar to others that could get easily confused. NCGAL specifically states that when names for government ministries are not unique, those should be properly disambiguated (and do not confuse "unique" with "not having the exact same title as another article" (confusion is still very possible between similarly named articles)). See
WP:PRECISE). Also consider that under SMALLDETAILS, "the general approach is that whatever readers might type in the search box, they are guided as swiftly as possible to the topic they might reasonably be expected to be looking for". If I was to look for the Haitian Ministry of Agriculture in the search box, it would be absolutely impossible for me to differentiate it from the Afghan, Serbian or Spanish ones without the disambiguation in the title. An average reader wouldn't usually know what the exact name of the country's ministry is, and wouldn't be able to differentiate it from others at first glance.
Impru20 (
talk)
21:41, 4 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Requested move 13 April 2024
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
However, there is a Ministry of Heritage and Tourism, and several Ministries of Tourism and Sport, among other articles with similar names. For those reasons, I feel the inclusion of (Ontario) is warranted.
Legend of 14 (
talk)
22:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Requested move 7 June 2024
Ontario has changed the name again. It is now called the Ministry of Tourism, Culture, and Gaming. Sport is now its own separate Ministry (and Lumsden will continue there as Minister).
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Travel and Tourism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of travel and tourism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Travel and TourismWikipedia:WikiProject Travel and TourismTemplate:WikiProject Travel and TourismTourism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This article is written in
Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose. On the basis of evidence presented by Huw immediately below, I am striking my support vote and changing it to oppose. I was hoping to eliminate the parenthetical qualifier, but confronted by very similar entities with qualifiers such as "(Malaysia)", "(Thailand)" or "(Ethiopia)", I see this nomination as selective, rather than all-encompassing and would now support this type of change only if it were done as a mass nomination of all such ministries.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)01:09, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Requested move 1 October 2017
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Support per mass nomination. None of these ministries has the exact same title, thus making the parenthetical qualifiers indeed unnecessary. No information would be lost to users — if anyone still prefers to type the longer titles with qualifiers, such titles will continue to exist as redirects.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)03:52, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose, per Hydronium Hydroxide and because ministries of many countries will have very similar names and listing them with the country descriptor avoids confusion. I'm sorry to oppose this, because of the hard work and the informative good faith list created by the nominator.
Randy Kryn (
talk)
05:00, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Country disambiguators are helpful when you are uncertain of some long-winded ministry name but certain of the country you want this information on. Also, it must be standard to have country disambiguators for the ministries with names common to several countries, which are probably the more important ones (although, how is it that Japan is the only country with a Ministry of the Navy?).
Dhtwiki (
talk)
07:35, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Removing the country doesn't help the reader in the least and instead it makes it much harder to distinguish between a raft of what in many cases are quite ambiguous and similarly-titled articles. To put it in policy terms, many if not all of the proposed titles fail on a couple of fronts, notably recognizability and precision. Per policy, a good title is one that unambiguously identifies a subject so that someone familiar with (though not an expert in) the subject will clearly recognize it. I think it's a stretch to assume that non-experts will be able to successfully discern which is which when presented with titles like (say): the
Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism versus the
Ministry of Tourism, Culture and Sport, or
Ministry of Defence and National Security versus
Ministry of Defense and National Security. I think even experts would struggle with that.
╠╣uw[
talk11:36, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose There may be only one article with these names but it's only a matter of time before another one comes along with the same name and we are forced to disambiguate and correct all the wiki links that have been created in the mean time. Echoing Dhtwiki, I refuse to believe that Uganda is the only country to ever had a Ministry of Local Government.--
Obi2canibe (
talk)15:49, 1 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose per above; these minor differences are not consistently maintained in sources, so this is a
WP:SMALLDIFFERENCES failure. A large number of these are also translations, also not given consistently in sources. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 02:42, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose the "(country)" disambiguator ensures that readers are aware of if the page is the one they're looking for. The names of these ministries will inevitably change, and perhaps overlap, which would make it harder to maintain and do cleanup of incoming links when that happens. ----
Patar knight - chat/contributions17:13, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Supportiff they are truly unambiguous. If not, the base title needs to be created as a disambiguation or redirected to a relevant page that serves as one. --
Tavix(
talk)18:02, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose while there may not currently be any other Wikipedia pages for ministries of these names, there's no reason to believe that they don't exist, or won't exist in the future. For two examples, I find it hard to believe that Japan is the only country to have ever had a Ministry of the Navy, or that Serbia is the only country to have ever had a Ministry of Religion. Even if it is true, the move effectively creates a
WP:EGG.
power~enwiki (
π,
ν)
18:17, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose as per Huwmanbeing and Obi2canibe, as well as per
WP:NCGAL and
WP:SMALLDETAILS. Many of these names comprise either common terms that are not unambiguous and/or names that are so similar to others that could get easily confused. NCGAL specifically states that when names for government ministries are not unique, those should be properly disambiguated (and do not confuse "unique" with "not having the exact same title as another article" (confusion is still very possible between similarly named articles)). See
WP:PRECISE). Also consider that under SMALLDETAILS, "the general approach is that whatever readers might type in the search box, they are guided as swiftly as possible to the topic they might reasonably be expected to be looking for". If I was to look for the Haitian Ministry of Agriculture in the search box, it would be absolutely impossible for me to differentiate it from the Afghan, Serbian or Spanish ones without the disambiguation in the title. An average reader wouldn't usually know what the exact name of the country's ministry is, and wouldn't be able to differentiate it from others at first glance.
Impru20 (
talk)
21:41, 4 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Requested move 13 April 2024
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
However, there is a Ministry of Heritage and Tourism, and several Ministries of Tourism and Sport, among other articles with similar names. For those reasons, I feel the inclusion of (Ontario) is warranted.
Legend of 14 (
talk)
22:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Requested move 7 June 2024
Ontario has changed the name again. It is now called the Ministry of Tourism, Culture, and Gaming. Sport is now its own separate Ministry (and Lumsden will continue there as Minister).