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This page should not be speedily deleted because I am still expanding it. Please view it again in about 2 hours. -- ViennaUK ( talk) 19:10, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Impressive: tidied a few German terms, used convert for metric-imperial and adjusted some of the bibliographical details. Perhaps a map/diagram and some photos are worth considering Keith-264 ( talk) 12:54, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Battlefields of the World War, western and southern fronts; a study in military geography (1921) [1] Keith-264 ( talk) 20:22, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
This seems a useful site but aren't we edging close to advertising? Keith-264 ( talk) 06:47, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Tinkered with the layout after adding the German mining section, change if desired. The notes section is full of prose, perhaps it could be moved to the narrative? Keith-264 ( talk) 13:37, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
If you want an un-collapsed list to be the main section, you'll be constrained by the frame to keep lots of prose separated in the notes, which seems a little awkward but as the Pub Landlord says, your gaff, your rules....;O) Keith-264 ( talk) 07:18, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
One of the notes states that an explosion occurred 15 seconds late, killing allied soldiers. I'm not sure why 15 seconds would matter, but that's why I would read an article like this. A summary of what time the explosions occurred and also the damages would really help this article. Fotoguzzi ( talk) 03:47, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
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Hi, I'm Belgian and know the Ypres Salient very well. Some internet sites provide actually very accurate (scaled!) maps of the trenches and the four unused mines at the extreme south (Birdcage): e.g. (1) and (2). Using the map established by Lt Col GPG Robinson, I found the following coordinates for the four mines on the territory of Comines-Warneton, with an accuracy of only a few meters (with respect to the map). All coordinates have the same degrees and minutes (50°44'x" N and 2°54'y" E), hereby the values of the seconds x and y: Mine 1: x=15,7 / y=45,4 Mine 2: x=18,5 / y=50,0 Mine 3: x=18,7 / y=44,4 Mine 4: x=21,8 / y=46,1
It is easy to mark this coordinates on Google Earth, and 'discover' with Google Maps or Wikimedia Maps that the mines are situated along a small road named "Chemin des Loups" (Wolves Way), as confirmed on the website of the municipality of Comines-Warneton (last sentence of (3) in French). By means of Google Maps - Street View, one can even identify the electricity pylon damaged when mine 3 exploded in 1955. I stop here, otherwise I must write a book instead of a 'talk'. If desired, we can discuss this matter later (I have 'drawn' a Google Maps picture with the mines and also the shafts M1 and M3 from where the mines could be fired). (1) https://simonjoneshistorian.com/2017/05/01/lost-mines-of-messines/ (2) http://bbcfm.be/battle%20of%20messines%20and%20the%20underground%20war.html (3) http://www.villedecomines-warneton.be/loisirs/tourisme/office-du-tourisme/decouvrir-la-ville/patrimoine-memoriel/zone-de-front
PierreMatthias ( talk) 22:24, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
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Any particular reason? Seems unnecessary and confusing in an English article. 97.124.155.252 ( talk) 00:47, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Before I go on a big research tangent about the casualty number of 10,000 German soldiers, which seems both too neat and too high to me - is that number a consensus on this page? The only citation it has is Mining Magazine, which is hardly peer-reviewed. Especially given the eye-catching claim that this was 'one of the deadliest non-nuclear explosions', I'd say we need to be a bit more skeptical here. — Arcaist (contr —talk) 17:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
"....many of whom were undoubtedly vaporised or blown apart by the effects of the mines." This tends towards the 10,000 rather than away from it [many] Keith-264 ( talk) 20:34, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
For this and other reasons the withdrawal proposal was dropped as impractical (nicht vertünlich) "tünlich" is not a real german word, should it say "möglich"? 2003:C8:EF15:7A4A:8999:4DCE:5AD:97A ( talk) 16:28, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
This well sourced article written by a historian seems to disprove it
https://simonjoneshistorian.com/did-the-messines-mines-really-kill-10000-germans/ 83.250.242.38 ( talk) 19:28, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
"Vertünlich" is not a word in German, and I can't find it anywhere on the Internet outside of reports on these mines. This looks like a mistaken transcription. I am wondering what the original word was. — Kusma ( talk) 09:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mines in the Battle of Messines (1917) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on June 7, 2022 and June 7, 2024. |
This page should not be speedily deleted because I am still expanding it. Please view it again in about 2 hours. -- ViennaUK ( talk) 19:10, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Impressive: tidied a few German terms, used convert for metric-imperial and adjusted some of the bibliographical details. Perhaps a map/diagram and some photos are worth considering Keith-264 ( talk) 12:54, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Battlefields of the World War, western and southern fronts; a study in military geography (1921) [1] Keith-264 ( talk) 20:22, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
This seems a useful site but aren't we edging close to advertising? Keith-264 ( talk) 06:47, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Tinkered with the layout after adding the German mining section, change if desired. The notes section is full of prose, perhaps it could be moved to the narrative? Keith-264 ( talk) 13:37, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
If you want an un-collapsed list to be the main section, you'll be constrained by the frame to keep lots of prose separated in the notes, which seems a little awkward but as the Pub Landlord says, your gaff, your rules....;O) Keith-264 ( talk) 07:18, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
One of the notes states that an explosion occurred 15 seconds late, killing allied soldiers. I'm not sure why 15 seconds would matter, but that's why I would read an article like this. A summary of what time the explosions occurred and also the damages would really help this article. Fotoguzzi ( talk) 03:47, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mines in the Battle of Messines (1917). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:08, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I'm Belgian and know the Ypres Salient very well. Some internet sites provide actually very accurate (scaled!) maps of the trenches and the four unused mines at the extreme south (Birdcage): e.g. (1) and (2). Using the map established by Lt Col GPG Robinson, I found the following coordinates for the four mines on the territory of Comines-Warneton, with an accuracy of only a few meters (with respect to the map). All coordinates have the same degrees and minutes (50°44'x" N and 2°54'y" E), hereby the values of the seconds x and y: Mine 1: x=15,7 / y=45,4 Mine 2: x=18,5 / y=50,0 Mine 3: x=18,7 / y=44,4 Mine 4: x=21,8 / y=46,1
It is easy to mark this coordinates on Google Earth, and 'discover' with Google Maps or Wikimedia Maps that the mines are situated along a small road named "Chemin des Loups" (Wolves Way), as confirmed on the website of the municipality of Comines-Warneton (last sentence of (3) in French). By means of Google Maps - Street View, one can even identify the electricity pylon damaged when mine 3 exploded in 1955. I stop here, otherwise I must write a book instead of a 'talk'. If desired, we can discuss this matter later (I have 'drawn' a Google Maps picture with the mines and also the shafts M1 and M3 from where the mines could be fired). (1) https://simonjoneshistorian.com/2017/05/01/lost-mines-of-messines/ (2) http://bbcfm.be/battle%20of%20messines%20and%20the%20underground%20war.html (3) http://www.villedecomines-warneton.be/loisirs/tourisme/office-du-tourisme/decouvrir-la-ville/patrimoine-memoriel/zone-de-front
PierreMatthias ( talk) 22:24, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mines in the Battle of Messines (1917). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:52, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Any particular reason? Seems unnecessary and confusing in an English article. 97.124.155.252 ( talk) 00:47, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Before I go on a big research tangent about the casualty number of 10,000 German soldiers, which seems both too neat and too high to me - is that number a consensus on this page? The only citation it has is Mining Magazine, which is hardly peer-reviewed. Especially given the eye-catching claim that this was 'one of the deadliest non-nuclear explosions', I'd say we need to be a bit more skeptical here. — Arcaist (contr —talk) 17:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
"....many of whom were undoubtedly vaporised or blown apart by the effects of the mines." This tends towards the 10,000 rather than away from it [many] Keith-264 ( talk) 20:34, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
For this and other reasons the withdrawal proposal was dropped as impractical (nicht vertünlich) "tünlich" is not a real german word, should it say "möglich"? 2003:C8:EF15:7A4A:8999:4DCE:5AD:97A ( talk) 16:28, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
This well sourced article written by a historian seems to disprove it
https://simonjoneshistorian.com/did-the-messines-mines-really-kill-10000-germans/ 83.250.242.38 ( talk) 19:28, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
"Vertünlich" is not a word in German, and I can't find it anywhere on the Internet outside of reports on these mines. This looks like a mistaken transcription. I am wondering what the original word was. — Kusma ( talk) 09:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)