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"Milwaukee Road" is a much more common name for this railway, especially considering the many name changes that happened over the years. I think this page should be moved back to that name. — User:Mulad (talk) 17:57, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)
Much more well known as the Milwaukee Road. (The railroad also went through multiple name changes in its lifetime.) — User:Mulad (talk) 22:47, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)
This is a comment after the fact. I still do not like this current name, especially as Netoholic pointed out that his Google test had shown a 65:1 ratio between the common name and the official title. I often don't like using the Google test to determine page title, but when the ratio is so overwhelming, it is hard to ignore. Whatever, I guess. — User:Mulad (talk) 21:24, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
I just noticed that the todolist wasn't migrated with the main page, so I've just moved it into the proper place for the article's current name. slambo 14:09, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
The St. Paul and Pacific Railroad plays an interesting role in the life of Knute Nelson, and a link is made to this article from his in WP. It might be interesting to include more information about the extension that so preoccupied the Minnesota legislature in the mid-1870s. -- Leifern 17:43, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
The Milwaukee Road designed the tracks, and cars wheels, to have a slightly smaller than the standard distance between them This enabled their cars to run on other companies' tracks but prevented others from using their tracks. Their wheels would run on the inside portion of the tracks of other companies. When other companies tried to use the Milwaukee Road's tracks, their cars' wheels would ride on the outside of the rails and frequently would derail.
If I may reopen the article name discussion, I'd like to point out what their logo, viewable at File:Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul and Pacific Herald.png, said. It seems pretty clear that The Milwaukee Road was the common name and not a slang name and should be the name of the article. It isn't like the other examples given above that weren't/aren't formally used. Jason McHuff ( talk) 23:11, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: Drury, George H. (1994). The Historical Guide to North American Railroads: Histories, Figures, and Features of more than 160 Railroads Abandoned or Merged since 1930.
Waukesha, Wisconsin: Kalmbach Publishing. pp. 374–377.
ISBN
0-89024-072-8. {{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
(
help). Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
"using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
"donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Mackensen (talk) 15:19, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm unconvinced by the claim cited to the Aberdeen American News that the Pacific Extension was actually profitable in the 1970s. Scribbins doesn't repeat it, and my sense is that if this was actually the case someone would have stepped in to operate it. The conventional wisdom, backed by most published sources, is that the Pacific Extension was a drain on the company and at the root of multiple bankruptcies. The ICC claim feels tantamount to a conspiracy theory and I think we either need a better source or we should remove it. Mackensen (talk) 18:57, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
I have read in a Trains Magazine article that loses on eastern lines were being hidden by assigning then to the Pacific Extension. This was only clearly understood when the extension was abandoned. Too late the directors found all the eastern lines losing more after the abandonment, which hastened the end of the road. Many inaccurate accounting practices were tolerated in the years when the merger with CNW was a goal. When that fell through the directors were replaced and the new directors took the bookkeeping at face value and, based on that decided to kill the extension which did not give the result they expected. Corumplex ( talk) 02:47, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
It was likely at least 4 years ago. I wish I could tell you more. If I come up with info I will let you know. Corumplex ( talk) 03:52, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
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I confess I wasn't familiar with Thomas Ploss before this edit: [2]. Apparently he was a lawyer with the Milwaukee Road who was discharged and wrote a book in anger. The Nation Pays Again is self-published. There's no absolute rule against self-published sources ( WP:SPS) but to use Ploss we need reviews attesting either to the book's credibility or his status as an expert. The canonical example within rail transport history is probably Thomas Taber's three volumes on the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad. In the alternative, something like "Former Milwaukee Road lawyer Thomas H. Ploss wrote a book claiming...", but if no one else made that claim it might amount to undue weight. Mackensen (talk) 12:21, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
I read something about how the company was sabatoged to decouple its assets from the company. Does this hold any merit? ( SailingOn ( talk) 18:17, 3 December 2017 (UTC))
I don't have anything particularly citable but apparently another name that is at least a d.b.a was "Chicago, Milwaukee and Puget Sound", which presumably deserves a mention. Here's a photo showing use of that name: File:Office of the Chicago, Milwaukee and Puget Sound Ry, located at 2nd Ave and Cherry St, in the Butler Building, Seattle (CURTIS 1007).jpeg. - Jmabel | Talk 21:47, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm ( talk) 03:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad → Milwaukee Road – Clear WP:COMMONNAME by a factor of multiple hundreds, thousands even, during the peak of the railroad itself. See here just for ngram stats alone. We're talking about real major issues of failing the recognizability criteria for all except subject matter experts. The fact that "Milwaukee Road" already redirects here shows that we expect someone searching for the name to be looking for this railroad, and with it clearly being the far most dominant name in common use, there's really no justification for keeping it at a technical name that was and remains largely unused by reliable sources. oknazevad ( talk) 00:35, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
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"Milwaukee Road" is a much more common name for this railway, especially considering the many name changes that happened over the years. I think this page should be moved back to that name. — User:Mulad (talk) 17:57, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)
Much more well known as the Milwaukee Road. (The railroad also went through multiple name changes in its lifetime.) — User:Mulad (talk) 22:47, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)
This is a comment after the fact. I still do not like this current name, especially as Netoholic pointed out that his Google test had shown a 65:1 ratio between the common name and the official title. I often don't like using the Google test to determine page title, but when the ratio is so overwhelming, it is hard to ignore. Whatever, I guess. — User:Mulad (talk) 21:24, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
I just noticed that the todolist wasn't migrated with the main page, so I've just moved it into the proper place for the article's current name. slambo 14:09, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
The St. Paul and Pacific Railroad plays an interesting role in the life of Knute Nelson, and a link is made to this article from his in WP. It might be interesting to include more information about the extension that so preoccupied the Minnesota legislature in the mid-1870s. -- Leifern 17:43, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
The Milwaukee Road designed the tracks, and cars wheels, to have a slightly smaller than the standard distance between them This enabled their cars to run on other companies' tracks but prevented others from using their tracks. Their wheels would run on the inside portion of the tracks of other companies. When other companies tried to use the Milwaukee Road's tracks, their cars' wheels would ride on the outside of the rails and frequently would derail.
If I may reopen the article name discussion, I'd like to point out what their logo, viewable at File:Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul and Pacific Herald.png, said. It seems pretty clear that The Milwaukee Road was the common name and not a slang name and should be the name of the article. It isn't like the other examples given above that weren't/aren't formally used. Jason McHuff ( talk) 23:11, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: Drury, George H. (1994). The Historical Guide to North American Railroads: Histories, Figures, and Features of more than 160 Railroads Abandoned or Merged since 1930.
Waukesha, Wisconsin: Kalmbach Publishing. pp. 374–377.
ISBN
0-89024-072-8. {{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
(
help). Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
"using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
"donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Mackensen (talk) 15:19, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm unconvinced by the claim cited to the Aberdeen American News that the Pacific Extension was actually profitable in the 1970s. Scribbins doesn't repeat it, and my sense is that if this was actually the case someone would have stepped in to operate it. The conventional wisdom, backed by most published sources, is that the Pacific Extension was a drain on the company and at the root of multiple bankruptcies. The ICC claim feels tantamount to a conspiracy theory and I think we either need a better source or we should remove it. Mackensen (talk) 18:57, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
I have read in a Trains Magazine article that loses on eastern lines were being hidden by assigning then to the Pacific Extension. This was only clearly understood when the extension was abandoned. Too late the directors found all the eastern lines losing more after the abandonment, which hastened the end of the road. Many inaccurate accounting practices were tolerated in the years when the merger with CNW was a goal. When that fell through the directors were replaced and the new directors took the bookkeeping at face value and, based on that decided to kill the extension which did not give the result they expected. Corumplex ( talk) 02:47, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
It was likely at least 4 years ago. I wish I could tell you more. If I come up with info I will let you know. Corumplex ( talk) 03:52, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:24, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
I confess I wasn't familiar with Thomas Ploss before this edit: [2]. Apparently he was a lawyer with the Milwaukee Road who was discharged and wrote a book in anger. The Nation Pays Again is self-published. There's no absolute rule against self-published sources ( WP:SPS) but to use Ploss we need reviews attesting either to the book's credibility or his status as an expert. The canonical example within rail transport history is probably Thomas Taber's three volumes on the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad. In the alternative, something like "Former Milwaukee Road lawyer Thomas H. Ploss wrote a book claiming...", but if no one else made that claim it might amount to undue weight. Mackensen (talk) 12:21, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
I read something about how the company was sabatoged to decouple its assets from the company. Does this hold any merit? ( SailingOn ( talk) 18:17, 3 December 2017 (UTC))
I don't have anything particularly citable but apparently another name that is at least a d.b.a was "Chicago, Milwaukee and Puget Sound", which presumably deserves a mention. Here's a photo showing use of that name: File:Office of the Chicago, Milwaukee and Puget Sound Ry, located at 2nd Ave and Cherry St, in the Butler Building, Seattle (CURTIS 1007).jpeg. - Jmabel | Talk 21:47, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm ( talk) 03:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad → Milwaukee Road – Clear WP:COMMONNAME by a factor of multiple hundreds, thousands even, during the peak of the railroad itself. See here just for ngram stats alone. We're talking about real major issues of failing the recognizability criteria for all except subject matter experts. The fact that "Milwaukee Road" already redirects here shows that we expect someone searching for the name to be looking for this railroad, and with it clearly being the far most dominant name in common use, there's really no justification for keeping it at a technical name that was and remains largely unused by reliable sources. oknazevad ( talk) 00:35, 7 April 2021 (UTC)