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How should we handle tibetan names like Jetsun Milarepa? My feeling is that especially where there is a conventional English spelling that should be used, and there is a case for using eg Wylie transliteration as well (as for example Pinyin is used in articles on Chinese topics as well as more common anglicized spellings , but what about wiriting it in Tibetan script, possibly as well? Billlion 18:25, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I also repeat this post for the Benefit of clarity (since it is mainly about Mila), and refer interested readers to the Tibet discussion page.
I removed a link to the milarepa movie but it was just re-added. I had removed it as promotional. But I'd like other's opinions on this as well. The movie does present a traditional view of the biography of milarepa and I personally think it's a beautiful film, well executed, visually stunning, and not particularly controversial in its view. But I'm also wary of link spam and promotion on the Wikipedia generally. What do you think? Include it? Exclude it? If I don't hear any additional thoughts I may just remove it again after some time. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 20:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Owlmonkey, what is to be said about that link here Inviting the demon. (Milarepa, Tibetan Buddhism)(The Shadowissue) Judith Simmer-Brown, Parabola Vol.22 No.2 (Summer 1997) pp.12-18 ?
practice, Milarepa followed the training given him by his guru. He invited the demons to stay with him and to receive his hospitality. He also challenged them to a friendly contest of teachings. Ye ghosts and demons, enemies of the Dharma, I welcome you today! It is my pleasure to receive you! I pray you, stay; do not hasten to leave; We will discourse and play together. Although you would be gone, stay the night; We will pit the Black against the White Dharma, And see who plays the best. Before you came, you vowed to afflict me. Shame and disgrace would follow If you returned with this vow unfulfilled.(10)"
the red link the four karmas still does not work.
In case somebody wants to produce a wikilink referring to the four karmas: Mahakala, The Mahakala and the Four Karmas of Transformation, Inviting the demon. (Milarepa, Tibetan Buddhism)(The Shadowissue) Judith Simmer-Brown, Parabola Vol.22 No.2 (Summer 1997) pp.12-18.
Hi again. I humbly disagree that the demon story is at the core of his accomplishment. I do see it, however, as an excellent teaching on how tantric buddhism leans into emotional discord instead of renouncing emotionality. if you see the demons as aspects of one's own mind, there is a natural tendency to deny and push those aspects of one's self away. we don't like to see our shadow side, as jung suggested, but instead we deny it. yet here milarepa is saying to invite these aspects of ourself that we usually deny and overcome our fear of them, and low and behold they disappear on their own - it removes the energy that we've been giving them - except for the very last one which we have to put our very head into its mouth and offer ourselves up. I suspect that last demon represents ego-clinging itself, and reaching complete enlightenment requires overcoming that clinging to self. But however you interpret the story, it is a famous one and sums up quite a lot of the tantric view in my opinion concerning emotions. I don't think the four karmas relate particularly to that story though, aside from seeing activity as non-dual. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 17:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that Milarepa played with himself while pitting the black against the white dharma. But one never knows. Maybe his black magic/sorcery-dharma played and discussed with his white magic/buddhist-karma. Is this tantric?
Jomolungma —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.91.178 ( talk) 10:01, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Via footnote no.10 Simmer-Brown refers to "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley".
(7.) This is drawn from "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley,"
Chapter I of Chang, op. cit., pp. 1-7. (8.) Ibid., p. 1. (9.) Ibid., p. 7. (10.) Ibid.
I never heard about this story before. is it western? Can you find it?
Maybe these links might be helpful, [3], [4].
http://lamapalmo.googlepages.com/lifestoriesofthegreatfemalemasters - this link is not welcome to the mainpage.
[5] " Main Students
The eight great sons:
* Je Gampopa, the sun-like son * Rechungpa, the moon-like son
and the star-like sons:
* Ngendzong Repa Jangchub Gyalpo * Repa Shiwa Ö * Seban Repa * Kyira Repa * Drigom Repa * Repa Sangye Khyab"
Do you know the meaning of "sun-like son" and "moon-like son"?
By the way, here you can find "The four highly developed daughters:
* Tshonga Rechungma * Nyanang Sale O * Chung Paldar Bum * Peta Gonkyi".
Here [6] is the story milarepa meets paldarbum, and here [7] milarepa meets rechungma and here [8] the story of sale öo. These are the first three of the above mentioned "highly developed daughters".
I don't remember who and why deleted my weblink to LamaPalmos "Some female disciples of Milarepa". Is it a blog, that is a private discussion site?
I've looked it up on the history page, [9], but I don't understand the reason given.
Peta Gonkyi was Milarepas sister, [10], [11].
“ | The name of my clan is Khyungpo, my family name is Josay, and my name is Milarepa. In my youth I committed black deeds. In maturity I practiced innocence. Now, released from both good and evil, I have destroyed the root of karmic action and shall have no reason for action in the future. To say more than this would only cause weeping and laughter. What good would it do to tell you? I am an old man. Leave me in peace.' | ” |
why?
Is this somehow the "wrong" Karmapas Face?
googlebooks
Von Mi-la-ras-pa,Garma C. C. Chang]
Milarepa and the demons Here Simmer-Brown is quoting from the book of Chang, I think:
" Having proclaimed the fearlessness which he had discovered in his
practice, Milarepa followed the training given him by his guru. He invited the demons to stay with him and to receive his hospitality. He also challenged them to a friendly contest of teachings. Ye ghosts and demons, enemies of the Dharma, I welcome you today! It is my pleasure to receive you! I pray you, stay; do not hasten to leave; We will discourse and play together. Although you would be gone, stay the night; We will pit the Black against the White Dharma, And see who plays the best. Before you came, you vowed to afflict me. Shame and disgrace would follow If you returned with this vow unfulfilled.(10)"
I wrote above: "Via footnote no.10 Simmer-Brown refers to "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley".
(7.) This is drawn from "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley,"
Chapter I of Chang, op. cit., pp. 1-7. (8.) Ibid., p. 1. (9.) Ibid., p. 7. (10.) Ibid."
Or: is the Tale of the Red Rock Jewel Valley not part of the book?
Before you came, you vowed to
afflict me. Shame and disgrace would follow If you returned with this vow unfulfilled.(10)"
I am really impressed with this. Is this heavenly compassion?
"Milarepa is famous for many of his songs and poems, in which he expresses the profundity of his realization of the dharma with extraordinary clarity and beauty."
Who says so? This is not NPOV. The last phrase should be deleted or attributed to a respected source. Rep07 ( talk) 02:02, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
hi, i know nobody's really paying attention to this article, but regardless i'd like to just question the purpose of the article's Unconventional section. not sure what exactly the significance is of this single anecdote -- seems very out of place to me. this article is already a little bit questionable, so any inspection could result in improvement. would somebody with more knowledge on the subject like to comment?
also, while we're at it, i would like to encourage fellow editors to research the claims in this article and provide sources to match them; or, if it's found to be totally unsourceable, at least stick it with a citation needed.
-- Foodlegs ( talk) 16:03, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
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This article has been tagged for neutrality, yet no rationale has been given. Therefore, I'll remove that tag. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:26, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:08, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Milarepa article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
How should we handle tibetan names like Jetsun Milarepa? My feeling is that especially where there is a conventional English spelling that should be used, and there is a case for using eg Wylie transliteration as well (as for example Pinyin is used in articles on Chinese topics as well as more common anglicized spellings , but what about wiriting it in Tibetan script, possibly as well? Billlion 18:25, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I also repeat this post for the Benefit of clarity (since it is mainly about Mila), and refer interested readers to the Tibet discussion page.
I removed a link to the milarepa movie but it was just re-added. I had removed it as promotional. But I'd like other's opinions on this as well. The movie does present a traditional view of the biography of milarepa and I personally think it's a beautiful film, well executed, visually stunning, and not particularly controversial in its view. But I'm also wary of link spam and promotion on the Wikipedia generally. What do you think? Include it? Exclude it? If I don't hear any additional thoughts I may just remove it again after some time. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 20:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Owlmonkey, what is to be said about that link here Inviting the demon. (Milarepa, Tibetan Buddhism)(The Shadowissue) Judith Simmer-Brown, Parabola Vol.22 No.2 (Summer 1997) pp.12-18 ?
practice, Milarepa followed the training given him by his guru. He invited the demons to stay with him and to receive his hospitality. He also challenged them to a friendly contest of teachings. Ye ghosts and demons, enemies of the Dharma, I welcome you today! It is my pleasure to receive you! I pray you, stay; do not hasten to leave; We will discourse and play together. Although you would be gone, stay the night; We will pit the Black against the White Dharma, And see who plays the best. Before you came, you vowed to afflict me. Shame and disgrace would follow If you returned with this vow unfulfilled.(10)"
the red link the four karmas still does not work.
In case somebody wants to produce a wikilink referring to the four karmas: Mahakala, The Mahakala and the Four Karmas of Transformation, Inviting the demon. (Milarepa, Tibetan Buddhism)(The Shadowissue) Judith Simmer-Brown, Parabola Vol.22 No.2 (Summer 1997) pp.12-18.
Hi again. I humbly disagree that the demon story is at the core of his accomplishment. I do see it, however, as an excellent teaching on how tantric buddhism leans into emotional discord instead of renouncing emotionality. if you see the demons as aspects of one's own mind, there is a natural tendency to deny and push those aspects of one's self away. we don't like to see our shadow side, as jung suggested, but instead we deny it. yet here milarepa is saying to invite these aspects of ourself that we usually deny and overcome our fear of them, and low and behold they disappear on their own - it removes the energy that we've been giving them - except for the very last one which we have to put our very head into its mouth and offer ourselves up. I suspect that last demon represents ego-clinging itself, and reaching complete enlightenment requires overcoming that clinging to self. But however you interpret the story, it is a famous one and sums up quite a lot of the tantric view in my opinion concerning emotions. I don't think the four karmas relate particularly to that story though, aside from seeing activity as non-dual. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 17:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that Milarepa played with himself while pitting the black against the white dharma. But one never knows. Maybe his black magic/sorcery-dharma played and discussed with his white magic/buddhist-karma. Is this tantric?
Jomolungma —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.91.178 ( talk) 10:01, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Via footnote no.10 Simmer-Brown refers to "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley".
(7.) This is drawn from "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley,"
Chapter I of Chang, op. cit., pp. 1-7. (8.) Ibid., p. 1. (9.) Ibid., p. 7. (10.) Ibid.
I never heard about this story before. is it western? Can you find it?
Maybe these links might be helpful, [3], [4].
http://lamapalmo.googlepages.com/lifestoriesofthegreatfemalemasters - this link is not welcome to the mainpage.
[5] " Main Students
The eight great sons:
* Je Gampopa, the sun-like son * Rechungpa, the moon-like son
and the star-like sons:
* Ngendzong Repa Jangchub Gyalpo * Repa Shiwa Ö * Seban Repa * Kyira Repa * Drigom Repa * Repa Sangye Khyab"
Do you know the meaning of "sun-like son" and "moon-like son"?
By the way, here you can find "The four highly developed daughters:
* Tshonga Rechungma * Nyanang Sale O * Chung Paldar Bum * Peta Gonkyi".
Here [6] is the story milarepa meets paldarbum, and here [7] milarepa meets rechungma and here [8] the story of sale öo. These are the first three of the above mentioned "highly developed daughters".
I don't remember who and why deleted my weblink to LamaPalmos "Some female disciples of Milarepa". Is it a blog, that is a private discussion site?
I've looked it up on the history page, [9], but I don't understand the reason given.
Peta Gonkyi was Milarepas sister, [10], [11].
“ | The name of my clan is Khyungpo, my family name is Josay, and my name is Milarepa. In my youth I committed black deeds. In maturity I practiced innocence. Now, released from both good and evil, I have destroyed the root of karmic action and shall have no reason for action in the future. To say more than this would only cause weeping and laughter. What good would it do to tell you? I am an old man. Leave me in peace.' | ” |
why?
Is this somehow the "wrong" Karmapas Face?
googlebooks
Von Mi-la-ras-pa,Garma C. C. Chang]
Milarepa and the demons Here Simmer-Brown is quoting from the book of Chang, I think:
" Having proclaimed the fearlessness which he had discovered in his
practice, Milarepa followed the training given him by his guru. He invited the demons to stay with him and to receive his hospitality. He also challenged them to a friendly contest of teachings. Ye ghosts and demons, enemies of the Dharma, I welcome you today! It is my pleasure to receive you! I pray you, stay; do not hasten to leave; We will discourse and play together. Although you would be gone, stay the night; We will pit the Black against the White Dharma, And see who plays the best. Before you came, you vowed to afflict me. Shame and disgrace would follow If you returned with this vow unfulfilled.(10)"
I wrote above: "Via footnote no.10 Simmer-Brown refers to "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley".
(7.) This is drawn from "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley,"
Chapter I of Chang, op. cit., pp. 1-7. (8.) Ibid., p. 1. (9.) Ibid., p. 7. (10.) Ibid."
Or: is the Tale of the Red Rock Jewel Valley not part of the book?
Before you came, you vowed to
afflict me. Shame and disgrace would follow If you returned with this vow unfulfilled.(10)"
I am really impressed with this. Is this heavenly compassion?
"Milarepa is famous for many of his songs and poems, in which he expresses the profundity of his realization of the dharma with extraordinary clarity and beauty."
Who says so? This is not NPOV. The last phrase should be deleted or attributed to a respected source. Rep07 ( talk) 02:02, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
hi, i know nobody's really paying attention to this article, but regardless i'd like to just question the purpose of the article's Unconventional section. not sure what exactly the significance is of this single anecdote -- seems very out of place to me. this article is already a little bit questionable, so any inspection could result in improvement. would somebody with more knowledge on the subject like to comment?
also, while we're at it, i would like to encourage fellow editors to research the claims in this article and provide sources to match them; or, if it's found to be totally unsourceable, at least stick it with a citation needed.
-- Foodlegs ( talk) 16:03, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Milarepa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:17, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
This article has been tagged for neutrality, yet no rationale has been given. Therefore, I'll remove that tag. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:26, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:08, 13 April 2020 (UTC)