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Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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At best this is a minor incident in the history of the aircraft and so wP:undue comes into play. Slatersteven ( talk) 15:57, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Again there is no evidence India shot down an f-16. Indian admits they lost a Mig-21. This article now contains a falsehood. Slatersteven ( talk) 11:53, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
Not again, there is no evidence that India shot down an f-16, it is an unsubstantiated claim and has no place in this article. Slatersteven ( talk) 15:52, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
It is an unsubstantiated claim, and if it keeps on being added I will ask for page protection. Stop now. Slatersteven ( talk) 14:32, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
@ ZLEA and Slatersteven: I can see both of you being too adamant over non- inclusion of Indian claim. I am aware of WP:CIVILITY, but I don't find your behaviour in-line with WP:NPOV. You are exaggerating things to suit your agenda. You say there are hundreds of unconfirmed kills attributed to Mig-21 which are not part of this page. Are you SURE? Tell me how many of those instances had opponents openly taking U-turns in public domain like Pakistanis did here? In how many cases, was the American media openly making false claims of US counting the aircraft of Pakistani inventory? In how many cases, did the claimant addressed media multiple times to reiterate its claim along with the evidence like radar images? Indian claims are strong and there have been no inconsistency in its claim since the very first day. -- Yoonadue ( talk) 09:17, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
I am bowing out now, I have said enough, time for new voices to have their say. Slatersteven ( talk) 12:56, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
( edit conflict) I think you have misunderstood, the claims would be reverted instantly if not referenced to a very reliable source. In these aircraft type articles incorrect claims are not spotted and dealt with for years. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 12:59, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
I wish to clarify that I am not asking for inclusion of an assertive statement like "Mig downed F-16" but rather in a claim manner like "India claimed to have downed an F-16 but Pakistan denied it." We have no conclusive evidence to confirm Indian or Pakistani claim but Pakistan's u-turns over usage of F-16 and the number of captured Indian pilots somewhat puts weight to Indian claim. -- Yoonadue ( talk) 14:25, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
There's a single sentence listing for Mig-21s in the List of Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 operators#Soviet Union, but other than that there seems to be next to nothing detailing the Mi-21's operational history in Soviet or Russian service. Seems like a significant omission. Is there a reason for this? 180.150.113.30 ( talk) 05:06, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
The article makes heavy use of claimed kill numbers without seeming to verify or put them in context. Claimed shootdowns historically wildly overestimate the number of aircraft downed and should be put into context. 153.90.167.151 ( talk) 02:54, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
At best this is a minor incident in the history of the aircraft and so wP:undue comes into play. Slatersteven ( talk) 15:57, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Again there is no evidence India shot down an f-16. Indian admits they lost a Mig-21. This article now contains a falsehood. Slatersteven ( talk) 11:53, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
Not again, there is no evidence that India shot down an f-16, it is an unsubstantiated claim and has no place in this article. Slatersteven ( talk) 15:52, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
It is an unsubstantiated claim, and if it keeps on being added I will ask for page protection. Stop now. Slatersteven ( talk) 14:32, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
@ ZLEA and Slatersteven: I can see both of you being too adamant over non- inclusion of Indian claim. I am aware of WP:CIVILITY, but I don't find your behaviour in-line with WP:NPOV. You are exaggerating things to suit your agenda. You say there are hundreds of unconfirmed kills attributed to Mig-21 which are not part of this page. Are you SURE? Tell me how many of those instances had opponents openly taking U-turns in public domain like Pakistanis did here? In how many cases, was the American media openly making false claims of US counting the aircraft of Pakistani inventory? In how many cases, did the claimant addressed media multiple times to reiterate its claim along with the evidence like radar images? Indian claims are strong and there have been no inconsistency in its claim since the very first day. -- Yoonadue ( talk) 09:17, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
I am bowing out now, I have said enough, time for new voices to have their say. Slatersteven ( talk) 12:56, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
( edit conflict) I think you have misunderstood, the claims would be reverted instantly if not referenced to a very reliable source. In these aircraft type articles incorrect claims are not spotted and dealt with for years. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 12:59, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
I wish to clarify that I am not asking for inclusion of an assertive statement like "Mig downed F-16" but rather in a claim manner like "India claimed to have downed an F-16 but Pakistan denied it." We have no conclusive evidence to confirm Indian or Pakistani claim but Pakistan's u-turns over usage of F-16 and the number of captured Indian pilots somewhat puts weight to Indian claim. -- Yoonadue ( talk) 14:25, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
There's a single sentence listing for Mig-21s in the List of Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 operators#Soviet Union, but other than that there seems to be next to nothing detailing the Mi-21's operational history in Soviet or Russian service. Seems like a significant omission. Is there a reason for this? 180.150.113.30 ( talk) 05:06, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
The article makes heavy use of claimed kill numbers without seeming to verify or put them in context. Claimed shootdowns historically wildly overestimate the number of aircraft downed and should be put into context. 153.90.167.151 ( talk) 02:54, 8 March 2024 (UTC)