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I strongly support listing Huckabee's views on evolution. There was a comment made by a redactor which said that Evolution is a scientific, not political position. The funny thing about science is that science findings affect politics. Three examples would be scientific claims leading to bans on cigarette advertising, scientific claims about the ills effects of pollution on human health lead to regulation of pollution and of course, global warming claims have political implications. Therefore, Huckabee's views on evolution should be included as stupid. Jmegill 18:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
=== I do not see any substantiation for the statement that Huckabee is a fiscal moderate or liberal. That should come out of there.
Hi, I deleted two criticisms that didn't maintain a neutral point of view and seemed too opinionanted for a wiki article.
.-- Pic82101 17:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Not a bad article. There were a few points that are too opinionated and don't fit in with a factual encyclopedia article, but on the whole not bad. I deleted the last paragraph due to my previous statementJfulkerson
This article makes Huckabee out to be some kind of savior. It is only contrasted by a small "criticisms" section at the end, designed to provide an opposing point of view. Unfortunately, it falls short and ultimately makes the article too opinionated for Wikipedia.-- Nscaife 23:13, 19 December 2005 (UTC)Nscaife
I added some more information about the Dumond case in order to provide a more complete picture of what happened. There are still some problems with this entry, but this hopefully balances it out a little more. Maximusveritas 23:42, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
The Dumond section needs to be rewritten. The information about the case is political. It has information regarding the Dumond case which; (1) does not help explain the criticism against Huckabee, (2) uses misleading articles to dismiss the criticism, and (3) is untrue and from unreliable sources. First, it fails to discuss the criticism against Huckabee, for example the fact Huckabee may have lied about his actions taken and used political pressure to get Dumond released. Second, the Arkansas Democrat Gazette article it cites to dismiss the criticism is misleading because it is not discussing the clemencies actually granted but is looking at the number granted. Third, the main source it cites disregards most of the other sources this article uses, speicifically articles written by Steve Dunleavy. ("What {Steve} Dunleavy has written about the Dumond saga has been either unverified or is demonstrably untrue".) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Afberry25 ( talk • contribs) .
Please do not remove the POV tag without an explanation. -- Scaife 17:02, 06 February 2006
Does anyone have any objections to removing the POV tag? Scaife's reasons for the tag appear to have been addressed for the most part. There is now a significant criticism section to balance Huckabee's accomplishments. I'll remove it in a week or so if there are no objections. Maximusveritas 21:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
*Until the editing war regarding the "convict release" is resolved, the NPOV tag is going to be re-introduced. Thanks - Eisenmond 21:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
"Negative" links keep getting deleted without explanation. 24.18.44.64 22:30, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Need citations badly. -- Scaife 12:08, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Citation Here: http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/CONFERENCES/RAC2006/default.asp ThuranX 01:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
++++++++++++++++
Information in Early Years Section also appears in periodical Current Biography, November 2005 139.78.177.30 16:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)Durden1186@hotmail.com
There doesn't seem to be much mention of his actions promoting anti-obesity stuff, although that's the only reason I've heard of him. Does anyone else think there should be more on this? 128.189.131.157 06:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
HUckabee's statements that jewish kidnappers who put him in a concentration camp should be added either to this section or to 'controversies'. [ [1]]. ThuranX 01:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Editors should review the policy on living persons.
In particular:
If you want to add something negative, it's your responsibility to make sure it's sourced and NPOV. If you don't, by policy it should (and if I'm around will) be removed wholesale any number of times. A.J.A. 21:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Certain editors appear to still not understand the WP:BLP policy:
Condescending to partially follow one part of a policy (after putting up a huge fight) does not license you to violate the rest of the policy. Incidentally, the text does not follow the source policy. E.g., "a group of convicts whom many believe are innocent of the crimes of which they are accused." is sourced to "Free the West Memphis Three", hardly an acceptible source. Even apart from this, it remains biased in tone: "an error-filled e-mail", etc.
Furthermore, the lengthy (and from what I read biased) West Memphis Three article does not include the text "Huckabee". Where's the notability? A.J.A. 18:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I explained with specific citation of policy and specific quotations from the paragraph in question. Your accusations of partisanship are uncivil, and your claim in the edit summary that "It was FULLY cited" was demonstratedly false when you made it.
Your claim that I bear any responsibility to "fix it" is alse clearly wrong per policy:
If you want it included it is "firmly" your responsibility to fix it. Speculating as to my motives does not license you to start ignoring basic content policies.
Although it's slightly better now, it still takes the critics' side and still gives undue weight. A.J.A. 19:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
asking me to prove or disprove a negative is a debate argument fallacy tactic i won't rise to. Contribute or stay out of it. It's notable, it's been sourced, and since your'e uninterested in helping, I see no reason not to replace it. ThuranX 22:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
ThuranX asserts in his edit summary: Objecting editor chose to not reply to lengthy post explaining notability I take it this is a reference to the last one from Ai.kefu. Unfortunately he doesn't explain notability, he merely asserts it and then demands I agree with him. I've suggested a way you could demonstrate notability. Then it would still have to be neutral and properly-sourced. Yes, it has to be notable and NPOV and sourced -- if "jumping" through those "hoops" is as impossible as you say it doesn't belong here. A.J.A. 22:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
(Undent) The editor in opposition to the criticism has once again chosen to remove the content, while ignoring and disrespecting the editors working here on the Talk page. As such, it is blanking vandalism, and will be treated as such. ThuranX 21:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Some parts of the article are plagiarized from here. A.J.A. 19:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Lest anyone say I haven't bent over backwards to notify ThuranX and Ai.kefu of their multiple violations, I will now reiterate what has already been said and not addressed (and by "addressed", I mean fixed, not argued about). In place of resolving the issues, I have seen immediate and repeated resorts to incivility and ad hominem arguments; they have refused to use the Talk page constructively, yet ThuranX feels that my decision to avoid answering his uncivil remarks puts me in the wrong. I leave it to uninvolved parties to decide which is worse, answering substantive posts with invective, or answering rude comments with nothing.
Notability -- Still not demonstrated. Ai.kefu demonstrated the notability of the case, but this isn't AfD, it's an article about someone who appears only marginally related. What's needed is proof that the criticism is notable, not a ramble about the case and demands I agree with him. WP:BLP says: "If the criticism represents the views of a tiny minority, it has no place in the article." Prove that isn't the case.
Sources -- "Free the West Memphis Three" isn't a reliable source.
Bias -- The paragraph, still, even after the latest attempt to make it less biased (by someone other than ThuranX and Ai.kefu, which was also the case in all previous attempts) appears to side with the critics and gives it undue weight. The version ThuranX kept reinserting was quit obviously biased.
P.S. The comment above about plagiarism had nothing to do with the dispute at hand despite ThuranX's false claims elsewhere. A.J.A. 20:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to comment on the Crime Library cite as a source. In the most recent version of the disputed text it first appears here:
The "[20]" being a footnote linking here. The first (admitedly minor) problem is that it takes us to the first part but the part sourcing the text is here. More seriously, what it actually says is:
Which isn't quite what the article says. It's unclear what it does say, however. Is he saying Huckabee himself wrote the e-mail? Is he saying Huckabee should keep a tighter rein on his staff? Hire some fact-checkers so nobody in his office sends out mistaken e-mails? The first would appear very unlikely and definitely jumping to conclusions, the latter two are more reasonable but assume he was speaking imprecisely. Any way you read this, using this as a source involves some interpretation on the part of editors.
I also searched the WM3 site. The closest I found to what would be needed is this, which isn't quite it.
What we need is a reliable source saying "so-and-so [who would have to be reasonably notable relative to the case] accused Huckabee of failing the cause of justice by not reopening..." Of course it doesn't have to be that exact wording. I've been harping on notability: finding a clear, reliable source would demonstrate notability, and I'm not sure I would accept anything else. A.J.A. 21:07, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Would someone mind adding this link which goes into detail about his ancestry. http://countyhistorian.com/cecilweb/index.php/Michael_Huckabee Thanks Wjhonson 06:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
That isn't policy. We do not discard sources when a minor part of the source engages in speculation. You have yet to address any issue about his parents. Michael Huckabee spontaneously appears on stage at age 30 or so. That is not a biography. Biographies include details about a person from birth to death, not from middle-age. Wjhonson 21:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
The link to AN/I is here. I've responded citing the NOR archives, which addresses the very issue of wikipedians doing research. Wjhonson 22:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I think that a posited royal link is non-notable trivia and may count as WikiSpam. There's neutrality and cleanup to be worried about more, in my opinion. bibliomaniac 1 5 00:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I probably don't know enough about the background and the political situation in the US, but why is this such a big deal? This was a question if an informative site that is operated by a Wikipedian would be helpful to the article. I see no breach of any policy, instead it's rather exemplary conduct in my opinion to suggest such a thing on the talk page for discussion. My naive opinion on the site is that it actually seems helpful and relevant, I'm not sure if it is reliable enough to add here, but I certainly don't see why User:Wjhonson was so aggressively attacked for suggesting his site for you to consider. It doesn't contain advertisement, it seems genuinely helpful, contains many useful links, and it clearly marks where the speculative section begins. I really fail to see the problem here, I mean I've seen WikiSpam and this doesn't look like it. -- Merzul 00:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Thuran you're being disengenious. Saying you're seeking *neutral* opinions. One person who like you ignores all the content except the ending, you say "thank you". Another person who agrees that the site is useful or at least not objectionable and you argue with them. It's pretty apparent you're trying very hard to make your case. Again you ignore that wikipedians are allowed to do research, and again you ignore that the page is NOT Speculation. Only the *ending* of the page is speculation. The rest of the page is factual and documented. Why do you insist on constantly mischaracterizing what's on it? You have not one single time addressed the documented statements on that page. Wjhonson 06:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Man, are you deliberately ignoring what I've offered? I have REPEATEDLY given you a compromise offer. You just don't want it. You want to hype your PROFESSIONAL GENEALOGY WEBSITE. THE COMPROMISE, AGAIN IS: "Find articles about Huckabee, citing his family history's influence on his positions on the issues, or his drive to work in politics, and I'll gladly accept them." [4], Fully support good sourced references to Huckabee's family life influencing his policies and positions.[Fully support good sourced references to Huckabee's family life influencing his policies and positions.] Show influences of his Heritage on his career. [5]. It's very simple. Find a written Prose source discussing his childhood, his relationships with his parents, and what effects that relationship, and those with his grandparents, had on him and made him the man he is. That can come in. Your own personal website, as found by both Fredrick day [6] and Bibliomaniac15 [7], however, is inappropriate. That's two outside opinions opposing the addition of your proposed page, as well as myself. Merzul's not sure if the page should be in or not, given the nature of the links, but isn't sure it's wikispam. I read that as 1 for it, 3 against it, 1 unsure but clarifying some points. Consensus on this appears to be against you, there's a reasonable compromise on the table allowing his family into the page with the standard WP:RS, but disallowing your personal website. You asked here if people would post it. You got an answer. You've spent a while trying to get people to NOT see it as your own site. The fact is, it IS your site. You got an answer. Please move on, find those other sources, and add a section or add to a section, with information about how his family life did and does affect Mike Huckabee. Thank you. ThuranX 12:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC) In addition, this link Wikipedia_talk:Attribution#Research_by_a_wikipedian makes it clear your efforts aren't in compliance with policy. I guess we're done now. ThuranX 12:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
And no amount of long-winded rebuttal will change the fact that your site will not be used as a source. -- Fredrick day 22:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
As the above was getting too long. I really have no idea why you insist on making every statement into a hyperbolic attack. My only point is that, in a *biography*, we do not have to prove how a person's family affected them, in order to include basic details *about* that family. That has been my point from the beginning, with which evidently you now agree. I would like to point out, that out of the hundreds of biographies I've worked on on wikipedia, this is the *first* time I've encountered any argument like the above regarding (specifically) what biographical information we can and cannot include. ThuranX I thought you were going to take a break ;) Wjhonson 00:31, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I hope none of you will leave Wikipedia because of this. I fully agree with Seraphimblade in all the points he has made. Personally, I don't really care that it is Wjhonson's own Wiki, so I have no problems with him suggesting this on a talk page, but we have I think consensus that it doesn't serve as a reliable source. -- Merzul 14:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please explain why there is a template at the very top of the article stating that the neutrality of the article is disputed? Exactly what is disputed? The only recent conversation I see here is about a proposed link about Huckabee's ancestry. -- ElKevbo 07:18, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
From What I see there is sufficient bashing to discredit Huckabee in the "controversy" section. I think the section is boarder line rant oriented and needs to be cut down to preserve Wikipedia's standards of neutrality. The Section on Mike's views should be expanded and combined with "controversy" the way it is written gives more discredit to him as a candidate... Shogun108 03:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Why is the only comment about the presidential debates that Huckabee doesn't believe in evolution? It seems a somewhat random and irrelevant thing to discuss about a Presidential candidate. As a side note to a question in the debate, Chris Matthews asked (by show of hands) which candidates didn't believe in evolution. It seems slightly off-topic. Some more comprehensive analysis of the debate would be useful, I'll add some of Dick Morris' thoughts on Huckabee's performance. A procrastinator 00:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC) Update: I removed the evolution comment, considering it's discussed in a bit more depth during the following section. If anyone has some criticisms of Huckabee's performance, please add it. A procrastinator 01:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, I can't fault you for removing double talk, but keep in mind that a candidate's beliefs and platform are VERY important, especially when those beliefs tread on scientific fact. I have two notes about this article, myself.
1: There is NO MENTION of his platform, at all. Given that he's a presidential candidate, it would be wise to inform curious people what he /actually wants to do/. 2: This line really sticks, for some reason. Probably because the lines above it are thoroughly quoted. It's under the 'criticisms' section. "The least reported portion of this criticism is that the tax increases were judicially mandated (for the education tax increase) as well as voted on by the citizens of Arkansas at around 80% approval (for the road tax increase)." There's no citation to this. I only noticed it because it's uncited under three lines that each warranted individual citations.. -Rutee, who has no Wiki Account.
Hello,
I'm Nick Moreau, an accredited reporter for Wikinews. I'm co-ordinating our 2008 US Presidential election interviews. We will be interviewing as many candidates as possible, from the Democrats, Republicans, and other parties/independents.
I'll be sending out requests for interviews to the major candidates very soon, but I want your input, as people interested in American politics: what should I ask them?
Please go to any of these three pages, and add a question.
Questions? Don't ask them here, I'll never see them. Either ask them on the talk page of any of these three pages, or e-mail me.
Thanks, Nick
Can we get a picture of fat Huckabee for contrast? //// Pacific PanDeist * 02:50, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
User deleted content (the entire Criticisms section) twice on Mike Huckabee page and twice on Constitutional Party page. Reverse lookup reveals user from Sikeston, Missouri and uses Charter Communications for internet access. User warned on talk page. If this can be linked to the Huckabee campaign, let me know. Jmegill 18:01, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
For a Canadian comedy show, Mike Huckabee gave a brief statement about nine minutes in to this clip on YouTube. It's rather amusing and somewhat ignorant of foreign policy. Jfingers 88 02:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC) All Huckabee says is, "Hello Canada. I want to congratulate you on preserving your national igloo." Huckabee doesn't come off as ignorant, but some of the other Americans do. Jmegill 03:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Here are a few photos yall can use: [9]. I got some more coming our way in a little bit, so just relax. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Just so you'll know.... the CATO Institute hates Huckabee because he's against smoking (CATO gets much of their funds from the tobacco industry). So having them as a source to say that Huckabee is a fiscal conservative is sort of like using George W. to say that Al Gore is a traitor. Thanks-- SNSAnchor 02:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
I think that this sentence, "Huckabee is considered a strong social conservative but a fiscal liberal", is way over generalized. There's a reason for his "fiscal policy" being in the "controversy" section of the article , its there because its controversial, there is no clear one side. I think that it would be better to write that "he is considered a strong social conservative and economic populist [10] [11] [12]. -- SNSAnchor 18:09, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay, here are some problems with the sentence saying he is a “fiscal liberal”.
1, Illogical, the article starts out by calling him a "fiscal liberal" and then goes on to have a whole section on the controversy regarding whether or not he is or not, that just seems bias or illogical.
2. Unproven, just because CATO and The Club for Growth call him a fiscal liberal does not mean he is considered by the majority of Americans to be one(like the sentence states). CATO and The Club for Growth have their own agenda's. One of the reasons the Club for Growth and CATO are being so vicious toward Huckabee is because he is a populist. Liberals don't even call themselves liberals anymore; they call themselves "progressives". The word itself has controversy and should not be applied just because a liberation organization calls a candidate one.
In regards to changing the sentence to economic populist as stated in these articles [13], [14] back that claim. I can also find more sources for him being considered a strong social conservative. For now, until i find more solid evidence that he is perceived as a "economic populist' by Americans, i will not change it.
But the references on the "fiscal liberal" sentence, do not reflect what the sentence says, so it should be taken down until proved (in this case, by a poll of some sort). Thanks for the feedback, -- SNSAnchor 21:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
As "economic populist", the Sirota source disagrees that Huckabee is an economic populist. Weigel agrees that Huckabee's message is appealing and says voters will fall for it because they are "irrational". Weigel writes: "Sirota is right, and I've seen Huckabee win over skeptical rooms from Mitt Romney (and I've heard friends talk of him doing the same to Fred Thompson) with his populism. The frontrunning candidate will make some noise about tax cuts and bash Hillary: Huckabee will talk about "main street" and "family-friendly" tax reform. Voters are irrational, after all." Weigel doesn't think Huckabee is an economic populist. Instead, he thinks voters want to hear the words "main street' and "family-friendly". Jmegill 17:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
By the way, on January 28, 2007. Huckabee rejected pledging not to raise taxes.
MR. RUSSERT: So “read my lips, no new taxes”?
GOV. HUCKABEE: I think you got to be very careful. I, I wouldn’t propose any new taxes. I wouldn’t support any. But if we’re in a situation where we are in a different level of war, where there is no other option, I think that it’s a very dangerous position to make pledges that are outside the most important pledge you make, and that is the oath you take to uphold the Constitution and protect the people of the United States.
Of course, he later changed his position. source http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16785556/ and http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16785556/page/2/ It is controversial to ONLY mention that pledged not to raise taxes and not to mention that he couldn't make that pledge two months earlier. Jmegill 00:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
"His ratings "tanked" in 2002 and 2003, she said, as his approval rating decreased 47 percent. Parry credited the governor's involvement in the "divisive" issue of school consolidation with his decrease in approval." Huckabee had 47% approval ratings in 2002 and 2003. I consider high approval ratings above 65%. Please show sources above 65% in order to claim that Huckabee had high approval ratings. Here [4] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmegill ( talk • contribs) 23:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I swear. This guy views that are the polar opposite of mine. Could anybody direct me to someone who has beliefs opposite to this guy? 71.89.8.194 00:42, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
He's challenged Ron Paul to a debate, and the two disagree on Iraq and other things.-- Gloriamarie 22:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
i need your opinion on something... what are some of Huckabee's character traits (personality) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.52.159.157 ( talk) 03:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC) Can anyone find text of any of Huckabee's speeches? His school closing plans closed at least 3 schools that he flew to in the State police helicopter and told the children there that their school would stay open. I know that Mount Holly was one of them as I was there but cannot find a source.
Huckabee's degree according to his own website is in Speech, not Religion. He also no longer claims to have any hours toward a Masters. I have no citation for this, but at a commencement speech in 2004 at a public University in Arkansas he was claiming an Associate's Degree in Theology from OBU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.166.132 ( talk) 00:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Mike Huckabee did receive his B.A. from Ouachita Baptist University in 1975 and M.A. from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in 1980 according to these sources below.
Please see links:
http://www.infoplease.com/biography/var/mikehuckabee.html
http://pewforum.org/religion08/profile.php?CandidateID=10
OK Now 7 ( talk) 06:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Also, what should be possibly added for Mike Huckabee's B.A. is that he received a Bachelor of Arts in religion and a minor in communications.
OK Now 7 ( talk) 07:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Mike Huckabee is the devil incarnate...Is this still true after the youtube debate? The article states that "Huckabee believes in Biblical inerrancy." I'm not sure if this is absolutely correct. Did you see the youtube republican debate, especially question 20? Huckabee said that certain things in the bible are obviously allegorical.
I don't know how to change these articles or else I would change this myself. Go to the below link to the youtube debate and watch his response to question 20 for proof. He basically says that there are some parts that are obviously allegorical, but some parts like "love thy neighbor" are not. This implies that he does not literally believe EVERYTHING in the bible. http://www.youtube.com/republicandebate#qa_RF-nMaYq3QE
I looked up the article cited for this point, written in 1997, and it says:
"During his presidency from 1989 to 1991, Southern Baptists were feuding at the state and national level. The conservative wing believed in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Moderates believed some Bible stories were simply metaphors and parables.
Mr. Huckabee counted himself in the conservative camp, a believer in Biblical inerrancy.
"If you can accept the resurrection, that is the ultimate miracle," he said. "If you can buy that one, the others are easy:
turning water into wine and such."
Isn't this contradictory to what he said in the youtube debate?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/74473/output/print To answer your question: Huckabee says he believes in Biblical inerrancy from numerous sources. Does he contradict himself? I don't know enough about the arguments of inerrancy to make those kinds of judgments. I think you are getting at what the definition of inerrancy is and Huckabee supplied such a definition in the recent quote above. Jmegill ( talk) 21:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Lists are discouraged. See political positions section. Bothsidesspin ( talk) 00:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
The Judicial Watch stuff is highly POV and partisan. 69.19.14.20 ( talk) 03:57, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I am not seeing any evidence that Judicial Watch does not match the standards of a verifiability; Loonymonkey, or any other editor that has deleted this information, can you provide any evidence it is not verifiable? When you have something that is referenced by a reputable source, there is not reason to delete it; in fact, it is the single, greatest threshold for inclusion. More importantly, it completely meets the standards of neutrality, which would seem to be wholly lacking in all of your reasoning for deletion.
The reasons you have provided:
No legitimate reason to exclude the information has been given. To delete the information points to two major policies that are being broken ownership and balance. This petty edit war violates our policies and the continued deletion of the material amounts to vandalism, and may very well result in editors being blocked. -- Voire Dei ( talk) 07:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
From these sources it seems that Judicial Watch is not above reproach.
http://www.savingjudicialwatch.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Fitton
OK Now 7 ( talk) 06:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Computer Hard Drives Destroyed article from ArkansasNews.com. This is one example of an ethics charge brought against Mike Huckabee. This points out how easy it is for anybody to charge a governmental official with an ethics violation.
http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2007/07/27/News/342875.html
OK Now 7 ( talk) 06:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Are there more sources for Bill Gothard? I am not sure how significant this is. I would like to see sourcing on the programs that Huckabee actually adopted in Arkansas based on Gothard. Jmegill ( talk) 05:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Date: May 1, 2001
"..... In other news about "charitable choice
- Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (R) has ordered the Child Welfare Agency to give a contract to a fundamentalist-oriented home for troubled youngsters called The Lord's Ranch, despite the organization's reluctance to accept government oversight in the past.
Staffers at The Lord's Ranch, based in Warm Springs, blocked state inspectors from interviewing children about suspected abuse in 1994, reported the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. That same day, the Randolph County sheriff's office reported that Ted Suhl, director of the ranch, had purchased two AR-15 assault rifles, two shotguns and several handguns. (Suhl claims he bought just one handgun and did not keep it at the ranch.)
A 1996 report by state officials noted further compliance problems at the ranch. Nevertheless, Huckabee appointed Suhl to the Child Welfare Agency Licensing Board and approved the facility for $140,490 in state funds, to be used for psychological treatment of children.
Suhl and other officials at the Lord's Ranch donated $8,650 to Huckabee's reelection campaigns between December 1996 and December 2000, but he told the Democrat-Gazette the contributions had nothing to do with governor's support for the children's home.
Jmegill ( talk) 05:41, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
And in Arkansas, Republican Gov. Mike Huckabee, formerly the president of the Arkansas Baptist State Convention, also appointed an abstinence commission. Whereas only a decade ago, state officials were urging school-based health clinics to distribute contraception, today Arkansas is pushing a $1.4 million-a-year abstinence program run by conservatives.
Not surprisingly, state abstinence programs have attracted passionate criticism from liberals, and some programs have faced charges of fraud and mismanagement. The first round of contracts awarded by Arkansas' abstinence program was delayed by the state legislature, which suspected bias in the grant review process toward groups aligned with national conservative organizations; the legislators subsequently learned that the governor's abstinence committee had kept no meeting minutes bylaws. from Pork for prudes: how conservatives score, while teaching kids not to.From: Washington Monthly Date: September 1, 2002 Author: Larson, Christina Jmegill ( talk) 06:00, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
MARK MINTON ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE With a former Baptist minister as governor, Arkansas has joined the vanguard of a movement to lower the barriers between religion and government.
Since Gov. Mike Huckabee took office four years ago, the state has hired church groups to run welfare and youth programs while rewriting state contracts and laws to affirm the groups' religious freedoms -- such as their freedom to reject a job candidate or client whose religion differs from their own.
Critics call this taxpayer-financed discrimination. Supporters say it allows church groups to compete with other private organizations seeking government service contracts.
With President Bush touting "faith-based initiatives" as a way for government to enlist highly motivated church groups, supporters and skeptics alike are searching the country to see how such partnerships work. Arkansas is at the forefront of what one Huckabee aide calls a "national experiment."
At a time when a school prayer or even a public nativity scene can set off a constitutional uproar, few noticed when Huckabee in October ordered state agencies to follow guidelines that give faith groups new prerogatives when they sign government contracts.
Under the guidelines, groups no longer must cloak their religion when they contract to run welfare-to-work programs, said Chris Pyle, the governor's family policy director.
Faith groups that in the past had to "secularize" when they signed a contract now have permission to leave their religious symbols and artwork on the walls and to offer religious programs as long as attendance is voluntary, tax money doesn't directly underwrite them, and welfare clients are not pressured to convert, Pyle said..... " Can't post the whole thing here because its copyright, but it does mention Lord's Ranch and Ted Suhl later in the article. 18:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
That's the material you need to use as a source. That supports the premise your other information builds on. Now you can move forward. As for the looking for negative information, while I have seen you remove some, you certainly add much much more negative information than positive, and you do so regularly. I'm not stopping you nor regularly reverting you, but I would like to see you undertake either overall less editing of the article, or do the same volume, but in a more balanced manner. You sometimes seem to pull the negative parts of articles here, and I'm sure you're omitting the positive sides of some. Try to keep your editing balanced, and it makes keeping the entire article balanced easier. Also keep in mind, I've defended your edits in the past, so if I"m percieving some possible trouble, perhaps that's a sign that there could actually be problems, not just people randomly objecting to you. ThuranX ( talk) 20:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
<math>Insert non-formatted text here</math>In a nationally broadcast radio, Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee once compared the State of Arkansas to a “banana republic.” See, "Huckabee: State like a 'banana republic'." Arkansas DemocratGazette 7 Nov. 2000. At http://rickspencer.com/wcc.asp, you will find absolute proof of gross abuse of injured workers and every concept of justice and due process upon which this country is founded by Former Governor Huckabee’s administrative. This proof unequivocally establishes that Mr. Huckabee allowed the insurance and self-insured industries in Arkansas to control how Judges vote in cases presented to them without regard to the facts or the law. You will also find absolute proof that Huckabee attempted to establish a “business friendly” environment in the State of Arkansas through the use of coercive tactics that are similar to the tactics used by the dictators of the “banana republics” to which he compared this State. Specifically, in response to influences and pressure from private interests and to further his quest to create a “business friendly” environment in this State that favors private enterprise, Huckabee’s administration focused extreme pressure on the administrative law judges of the Workers’ Compensation Commission and the Commissioners themselves to decide claims presented to them in favor of employers and insurance carriers or else these judges would be fired. This pressure focused directly and substantially upon the mental decision-making processes of the administrative law judges and Commissioners. The affect of this pressure compromised and impaired the appearance of impartiality which is so essential to any concept of justice and fair play. In fact, at least three administrative law judges were fired by Huckabee because they did not decide cases presented to them in the manner dictated by Mr. Huckabee. The constitutionality of Mr. Huckabee’s actions has been challenged by Attorney Rick Spencer, in Mountain Home, Arkansas. The brief which Mr. Spencer has submitted to the Appellate Courts in Arkansas, as well as the depositions of members of Mr. Huckabee’s staff as well as Mr. Huckabee himself, which corroborate these allegations, can be found on Mr. Spencer’s web site, which can be found above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rookie72116 ( talk • contribs) 23:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
The deposition testimony is more than a blog or an Arkansas Resident with an axe to grind. The deposition testimony is sworn testimony by Huckabee, his chief of staff, and several members of his staff. There testimony is not the opinion of Mr. Spencer or any other Arkansas resident. They document the actions and attitudes of Mr. Huckabee. Whether it can be used in this article, I don't know. The deposition testimony of Mr. Huckabee and his staff members do provide insight into Mr. Huckabee's values.
Considering that David Huckabee is already wikilinked, I question whether the David Huckabee dog incident merits its own subsection. Perhaps it is undue weight. Jmegill ( talk) 22:35, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Didn't his comments on Pakistan sharing an eastern border with Afghanistan draw more criticism then the Pakistan immigrant thing? [17] Nil Einne ( talk) 21:32, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I heard he mentioned college scholarships in a speech. Does anyone know what he said in particular?-- Playstationdude ( talk) 22:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't his stance(s) on Global Warming and other environmental issues like alternative energy be listed? Cowicide ( talk) 10:07, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Huckabee's crossing of the writer's picket line to appear on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno on the day before the Iowa Caucus was well covered in the media and is relavent to his political behavior and ideals. It deserves mention on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.26.106.9 ( talk) 18:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
where should Nick names like Tax Hike Mike and being # 6 on Judicial Watch's 10 most wanted corrupt politicians go? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.6.100.56 ( talk) 20:11, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Channel 3 KTBS in Texarkana did a recent story about Mike Huckabee. The part about Dennis Young is interesting.
http://www.ktbs.com/news/Mike-Huckabee:-The-Next-Man-From-Hope-Part-Two-8433/ —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.30.181.105 (
talk) 05:54, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Here's part one
http://www.ktbs.com/news/Mike-Huckabee:-The-Next-Man-from-Hope-8410/# —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.30.181.105 (
talk) 06:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
If there is a sub section on David Huckabee on the Mike Huckabee page it should give a more detailed account of the incident rather than a one sentice description that is purely anti-huckabee and gives no balanced description of the incident, on one said of a hearsay story. This is an encycolpedic website, only having one sentice on one side of a hearsay situation is rediculous. Rtr10 ( talk) 04:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Please don't remove the wikilink for Capitol Offense from the lede. Red links aren't bad, especially when there's a high likelihood they'll turn blue soon. Bellwether B C 01:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
"Governor Huckabee was a keynote speaker at the Southern Baptist 1998 Convention in Salt Lake City [183] in which one convention sermon offered by a different minister referred to Salt Lake City as "headquarters of a counterfeit Christianity."[184] " This sentence should be removed from the article because it does not refer to something Huckabee said or did. This is a guilt by association smear. The question of Huckabee's views on Mormonism should only include information that Huckabee himself provided and not include what his associates said or did. Jmegill ( talk) 01:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
http://www.newsweek.com/id/74469/page/4 The church is in pine bluff. I had thought I picked up that piece of information from the article, but really it was in Newsweek. Perhaps I should have mentioned Newsweek as a source before I had you shell out 2.95 for Scott Parks. My bad. Really I don't think that the racist slur is going to work against Huckabee. The SBC's past actions on race should not be mentioned in this article because it is irrelevant to Huckabee. There is no evidence that Huckabee has racist sentiment or feelings and plenty of evidence that he cares about blacks and hispanics. For example, while Governor, he significantly increased government spending for low income children, many of whom are members of minority groups. Jmegill ( talk) 04:24, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
(new indent) This seems to be more difficult to understand than I thought. It is understandable that for any organization, and particularly religious ones, to review history and admit wrong doing. What is applicable about this? I will be blunt. We are not talking about the bloody middle ages. We are talking about when the civil rights movement was at its peak in the 1960's. The reason the Southern Baptists church exists, by its own admission, is because of their desire to defend, protect, and promulgate slavery in the US. Their actions into the 1970's continued to be racist. This is the same church that Huckabee chose not only in which to be a member, but to become a minister. At the time of his becoming a minister Southern Baptists churches still did not allow blacks to become members of their churches. The SBC did not participate in the civil rights movement, but rather sat on the side lines. George Wallace, another SBC member, exemplifies well the mind of their membership at the time of the civil rights movement when he spoke those terrible words, "I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever". This is the church Huckabee grew up in, prospered in, and chose as his career. It was not just a passing fad, but became his life.
Think about it, we are praising him for integrating a SB church in the mid 1980's! This was well after the rest of the US had become integrated. We are giving him credit for something the rest of the world is doing? Surely you see the silliness of such a task. It is like telling a 20 year old that he has accomplished something because he no longer throws himself on the floor in a tantrum similar to a two year old; it is no accomplishment. It would have been different if he had done something at his college as a student or he was active in the civil rights movement, which he was not. He not only sat on the sidelines, but chose membership in a group that continued to have a racist culture.
It is not slanderous to Southern Baptist churches to discuss history nor is it slanderous to their membership. It is factual history. Also, just because people are unfamiliar with history does not mean it should not be known. In 1995 the SBC sought forgiveness for their past; they acknowledged it, I wonder why it should not be acknowledged here. He was more than just an active participant. -- Storm Rider (talk) 01:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Can we just close this? We're spiraling. We obviously have a consensus. Storm Rider, I've always respected the work you do here. You're not the stereotypical edit warrior. Can we move on? -- Elliskev 02:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree with ThuranX and Alanraywiki to a certain extent. I think it would be ridiculous to start talking about Huckabee's religious organization's past beliefs. Doing so would mean we would have to go through every Democratic politician's article and say that their political party was founded on a pro-slavery platform. Then we would have to go through every Republican politician's article and say that their political party was founded on an anti-slavery platform. This would mean getting way off subject. I still don't understand why Storm Rider doesn't seem to understand that, but I'm glad to see he has gotten past this, so I will go ahead and close the discussion. DiligentTerrier • talk | sign here 20:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I strongly support listing Huckabee's views on evolution. There was a comment made by a redactor which said that Evolution is a scientific, not political position. The funny thing about science is that science findings affect politics. Three examples would be scientific claims leading to bans on cigarette advertising, scientific claims about the ills effects of pollution on human health lead to regulation of pollution and of course, global warming claims have political implications. Therefore, Huckabee's views on evolution should be included as stupid. Jmegill 18:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
=== I do not see any substantiation for the statement that Huckabee is a fiscal moderate or liberal. That should come out of there.
Hi, I deleted two criticisms that didn't maintain a neutral point of view and seemed too opinionanted for a wiki article.
.-- Pic82101 17:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Not a bad article. There were a few points that are too opinionated and don't fit in with a factual encyclopedia article, but on the whole not bad. I deleted the last paragraph due to my previous statementJfulkerson
This article makes Huckabee out to be some kind of savior. It is only contrasted by a small "criticisms" section at the end, designed to provide an opposing point of view. Unfortunately, it falls short and ultimately makes the article too opinionated for Wikipedia.-- Nscaife 23:13, 19 December 2005 (UTC)Nscaife
I added some more information about the Dumond case in order to provide a more complete picture of what happened. There are still some problems with this entry, but this hopefully balances it out a little more. Maximusveritas 23:42, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
The Dumond section needs to be rewritten. The information about the case is political. It has information regarding the Dumond case which; (1) does not help explain the criticism against Huckabee, (2) uses misleading articles to dismiss the criticism, and (3) is untrue and from unreliable sources. First, it fails to discuss the criticism against Huckabee, for example the fact Huckabee may have lied about his actions taken and used political pressure to get Dumond released. Second, the Arkansas Democrat Gazette article it cites to dismiss the criticism is misleading because it is not discussing the clemencies actually granted but is looking at the number granted. Third, the main source it cites disregards most of the other sources this article uses, speicifically articles written by Steve Dunleavy. ("What {Steve} Dunleavy has written about the Dumond saga has been either unverified or is demonstrably untrue".) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Afberry25 ( talk • contribs) .
Please do not remove the POV tag without an explanation. -- Scaife 17:02, 06 February 2006
Does anyone have any objections to removing the POV tag? Scaife's reasons for the tag appear to have been addressed for the most part. There is now a significant criticism section to balance Huckabee's accomplishments. I'll remove it in a week or so if there are no objections. Maximusveritas 21:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
*Until the editing war regarding the "convict release" is resolved, the NPOV tag is going to be re-introduced. Thanks - Eisenmond 21:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
"Negative" links keep getting deleted without explanation. 24.18.44.64 22:30, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Need citations badly. -- Scaife 12:08, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Citation Here: http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/CONFERENCES/RAC2006/default.asp ThuranX 01:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
++++++++++++++++
Information in Early Years Section also appears in periodical Current Biography, November 2005 139.78.177.30 16:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)Durden1186@hotmail.com
There doesn't seem to be much mention of his actions promoting anti-obesity stuff, although that's the only reason I've heard of him. Does anyone else think there should be more on this? 128.189.131.157 06:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
HUckabee's statements that jewish kidnappers who put him in a concentration camp should be added either to this section or to 'controversies'. [ [1]]. ThuranX 01:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Editors should review the policy on living persons.
In particular:
If you want to add something negative, it's your responsibility to make sure it's sourced and NPOV. If you don't, by policy it should (and if I'm around will) be removed wholesale any number of times. A.J.A. 21:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Certain editors appear to still not understand the WP:BLP policy:
Condescending to partially follow one part of a policy (after putting up a huge fight) does not license you to violate the rest of the policy. Incidentally, the text does not follow the source policy. E.g., "a group of convicts whom many believe are innocent of the crimes of which they are accused." is sourced to "Free the West Memphis Three", hardly an acceptible source. Even apart from this, it remains biased in tone: "an error-filled e-mail", etc.
Furthermore, the lengthy (and from what I read biased) West Memphis Three article does not include the text "Huckabee". Where's the notability? A.J.A. 18:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I explained with specific citation of policy and specific quotations from the paragraph in question. Your accusations of partisanship are uncivil, and your claim in the edit summary that "It was FULLY cited" was demonstratedly false when you made it.
Your claim that I bear any responsibility to "fix it" is alse clearly wrong per policy:
If you want it included it is "firmly" your responsibility to fix it. Speculating as to my motives does not license you to start ignoring basic content policies.
Although it's slightly better now, it still takes the critics' side and still gives undue weight. A.J.A. 19:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
asking me to prove or disprove a negative is a debate argument fallacy tactic i won't rise to. Contribute or stay out of it. It's notable, it's been sourced, and since your'e uninterested in helping, I see no reason not to replace it. ThuranX 22:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
ThuranX asserts in his edit summary: Objecting editor chose to not reply to lengthy post explaining notability I take it this is a reference to the last one from Ai.kefu. Unfortunately he doesn't explain notability, he merely asserts it and then demands I agree with him. I've suggested a way you could demonstrate notability. Then it would still have to be neutral and properly-sourced. Yes, it has to be notable and NPOV and sourced -- if "jumping" through those "hoops" is as impossible as you say it doesn't belong here. A.J.A. 22:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
(Undent) The editor in opposition to the criticism has once again chosen to remove the content, while ignoring and disrespecting the editors working here on the Talk page. As such, it is blanking vandalism, and will be treated as such. ThuranX 21:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Some parts of the article are plagiarized from here. A.J.A. 19:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Lest anyone say I haven't bent over backwards to notify ThuranX and Ai.kefu of their multiple violations, I will now reiterate what has already been said and not addressed (and by "addressed", I mean fixed, not argued about). In place of resolving the issues, I have seen immediate and repeated resorts to incivility and ad hominem arguments; they have refused to use the Talk page constructively, yet ThuranX feels that my decision to avoid answering his uncivil remarks puts me in the wrong. I leave it to uninvolved parties to decide which is worse, answering substantive posts with invective, or answering rude comments with nothing.
Notability -- Still not demonstrated. Ai.kefu demonstrated the notability of the case, but this isn't AfD, it's an article about someone who appears only marginally related. What's needed is proof that the criticism is notable, not a ramble about the case and demands I agree with him. WP:BLP says: "If the criticism represents the views of a tiny minority, it has no place in the article." Prove that isn't the case.
Sources -- "Free the West Memphis Three" isn't a reliable source.
Bias -- The paragraph, still, even after the latest attempt to make it less biased (by someone other than ThuranX and Ai.kefu, which was also the case in all previous attempts) appears to side with the critics and gives it undue weight. The version ThuranX kept reinserting was quit obviously biased.
P.S. The comment above about plagiarism had nothing to do with the dispute at hand despite ThuranX's false claims elsewhere. A.J.A. 20:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to comment on the Crime Library cite as a source. In the most recent version of the disputed text it first appears here:
The "[20]" being a footnote linking here. The first (admitedly minor) problem is that it takes us to the first part but the part sourcing the text is here. More seriously, what it actually says is:
Which isn't quite what the article says. It's unclear what it does say, however. Is he saying Huckabee himself wrote the e-mail? Is he saying Huckabee should keep a tighter rein on his staff? Hire some fact-checkers so nobody in his office sends out mistaken e-mails? The first would appear very unlikely and definitely jumping to conclusions, the latter two are more reasonable but assume he was speaking imprecisely. Any way you read this, using this as a source involves some interpretation on the part of editors.
I also searched the WM3 site. The closest I found to what would be needed is this, which isn't quite it.
What we need is a reliable source saying "so-and-so [who would have to be reasonably notable relative to the case] accused Huckabee of failing the cause of justice by not reopening..." Of course it doesn't have to be that exact wording. I've been harping on notability: finding a clear, reliable source would demonstrate notability, and I'm not sure I would accept anything else. A.J.A. 21:07, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Would someone mind adding this link which goes into detail about his ancestry. http://countyhistorian.com/cecilweb/index.php/Michael_Huckabee Thanks Wjhonson 06:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
That isn't policy. We do not discard sources when a minor part of the source engages in speculation. You have yet to address any issue about his parents. Michael Huckabee spontaneously appears on stage at age 30 or so. That is not a biography. Biographies include details about a person from birth to death, not from middle-age. Wjhonson 21:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
The link to AN/I is here. I've responded citing the NOR archives, which addresses the very issue of wikipedians doing research. Wjhonson 22:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I think that a posited royal link is non-notable trivia and may count as WikiSpam. There's neutrality and cleanup to be worried about more, in my opinion. bibliomaniac 1 5 00:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I probably don't know enough about the background and the political situation in the US, but why is this such a big deal? This was a question if an informative site that is operated by a Wikipedian would be helpful to the article. I see no breach of any policy, instead it's rather exemplary conduct in my opinion to suggest such a thing on the talk page for discussion. My naive opinion on the site is that it actually seems helpful and relevant, I'm not sure if it is reliable enough to add here, but I certainly don't see why User:Wjhonson was so aggressively attacked for suggesting his site for you to consider. It doesn't contain advertisement, it seems genuinely helpful, contains many useful links, and it clearly marks where the speculative section begins. I really fail to see the problem here, I mean I've seen WikiSpam and this doesn't look like it. -- Merzul 00:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Thuran you're being disengenious. Saying you're seeking *neutral* opinions. One person who like you ignores all the content except the ending, you say "thank you". Another person who agrees that the site is useful or at least not objectionable and you argue with them. It's pretty apparent you're trying very hard to make your case. Again you ignore that wikipedians are allowed to do research, and again you ignore that the page is NOT Speculation. Only the *ending* of the page is speculation. The rest of the page is factual and documented. Why do you insist on constantly mischaracterizing what's on it? You have not one single time addressed the documented statements on that page. Wjhonson 06:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Man, are you deliberately ignoring what I've offered? I have REPEATEDLY given you a compromise offer. You just don't want it. You want to hype your PROFESSIONAL GENEALOGY WEBSITE. THE COMPROMISE, AGAIN IS: "Find articles about Huckabee, citing his family history's influence on his positions on the issues, or his drive to work in politics, and I'll gladly accept them." [4], Fully support good sourced references to Huckabee's family life influencing his policies and positions.[Fully support good sourced references to Huckabee's family life influencing his policies and positions.] Show influences of his Heritage on his career. [5]. It's very simple. Find a written Prose source discussing his childhood, his relationships with his parents, and what effects that relationship, and those with his grandparents, had on him and made him the man he is. That can come in. Your own personal website, as found by both Fredrick day [6] and Bibliomaniac15 [7], however, is inappropriate. That's two outside opinions opposing the addition of your proposed page, as well as myself. Merzul's not sure if the page should be in or not, given the nature of the links, but isn't sure it's wikispam. I read that as 1 for it, 3 against it, 1 unsure but clarifying some points. Consensus on this appears to be against you, there's a reasonable compromise on the table allowing his family into the page with the standard WP:RS, but disallowing your personal website. You asked here if people would post it. You got an answer. You've spent a while trying to get people to NOT see it as your own site. The fact is, it IS your site. You got an answer. Please move on, find those other sources, and add a section or add to a section, with information about how his family life did and does affect Mike Huckabee. Thank you. ThuranX 12:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC) In addition, this link Wikipedia_talk:Attribution#Research_by_a_wikipedian makes it clear your efforts aren't in compliance with policy. I guess we're done now. ThuranX 12:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
And no amount of long-winded rebuttal will change the fact that your site will not be used as a source. -- Fredrick day 22:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
As the above was getting too long. I really have no idea why you insist on making every statement into a hyperbolic attack. My only point is that, in a *biography*, we do not have to prove how a person's family affected them, in order to include basic details *about* that family. That has been my point from the beginning, with which evidently you now agree. I would like to point out, that out of the hundreds of biographies I've worked on on wikipedia, this is the *first* time I've encountered any argument like the above regarding (specifically) what biographical information we can and cannot include. ThuranX I thought you were going to take a break ;) Wjhonson 00:31, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I hope none of you will leave Wikipedia because of this. I fully agree with Seraphimblade in all the points he has made. Personally, I don't really care that it is Wjhonson's own Wiki, so I have no problems with him suggesting this on a talk page, but we have I think consensus that it doesn't serve as a reliable source. -- Merzul 14:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please explain why there is a template at the very top of the article stating that the neutrality of the article is disputed? Exactly what is disputed? The only recent conversation I see here is about a proposed link about Huckabee's ancestry. -- ElKevbo 07:18, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
From What I see there is sufficient bashing to discredit Huckabee in the "controversy" section. I think the section is boarder line rant oriented and needs to be cut down to preserve Wikipedia's standards of neutrality. The Section on Mike's views should be expanded and combined with "controversy" the way it is written gives more discredit to him as a candidate... Shogun108 03:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Why is the only comment about the presidential debates that Huckabee doesn't believe in evolution? It seems a somewhat random and irrelevant thing to discuss about a Presidential candidate. As a side note to a question in the debate, Chris Matthews asked (by show of hands) which candidates didn't believe in evolution. It seems slightly off-topic. Some more comprehensive analysis of the debate would be useful, I'll add some of Dick Morris' thoughts on Huckabee's performance. A procrastinator 00:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC) Update: I removed the evolution comment, considering it's discussed in a bit more depth during the following section. If anyone has some criticisms of Huckabee's performance, please add it. A procrastinator 01:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, I can't fault you for removing double talk, but keep in mind that a candidate's beliefs and platform are VERY important, especially when those beliefs tread on scientific fact. I have two notes about this article, myself.
1: There is NO MENTION of his platform, at all. Given that he's a presidential candidate, it would be wise to inform curious people what he /actually wants to do/. 2: This line really sticks, for some reason. Probably because the lines above it are thoroughly quoted. It's under the 'criticisms' section. "The least reported portion of this criticism is that the tax increases were judicially mandated (for the education tax increase) as well as voted on by the citizens of Arkansas at around 80% approval (for the road tax increase)." There's no citation to this. I only noticed it because it's uncited under three lines that each warranted individual citations.. -Rutee, who has no Wiki Account.
Hello,
I'm Nick Moreau, an accredited reporter for Wikinews. I'm co-ordinating our 2008 US Presidential election interviews. We will be interviewing as many candidates as possible, from the Democrats, Republicans, and other parties/independents.
I'll be sending out requests for interviews to the major candidates very soon, but I want your input, as people interested in American politics: what should I ask them?
Please go to any of these three pages, and add a question.
Questions? Don't ask them here, I'll never see them. Either ask them on the talk page of any of these three pages, or e-mail me.
Thanks, Nick
Can we get a picture of fat Huckabee for contrast? //// Pacific PanDeist * 02:50, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
User deleted content (the entire Criticisms section) twice on Mike Huckabee page and twice on Constitutional Party page. Reverse lookup reveals user from Sikeston, Missouri and uses Charter Communications for internet access. User warned on talk page. If this can be linked to the Huckabee campaign, let me know. Jmegill 18:01, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
For a Canadian comedy show, Mike Huckabee gave a brief statement about nine minutes in to this clip on YouTube. It's rather amusing and somewhat ignorant of foreign policy. Jfingers 88 02:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC) All Huckabee says is, "Hello Canada. I want to congratulate you on preserving your national igloo." Huckabee doesn't come off as ignorant, but some of the other Americans do. Jmegill 03:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Here are a few photos yall can use: [9]. I got some more coming our way in a little bit, so just relax. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Just so you'll know.... the CATO Institute hates Huckabee because he's against smoking (CATO gets much of their funds from the tobacco industry). So having them as a source to say that Huckabee is a fiscal conservative is sort of like using George W. to say that Al Gore is a traitor. Thanks-- SNSAnchor 02:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
I think that this sentence, "Huckabee is considered a strong social conservative but a fiscal liberal", is way over generalized. There's a reason for his "fiscal policy" being in the "controversy" section of the article , its there because its controversial, there is no clear one side. I think that it would be better to write that "he is considered a strong social conservative and economic populist [10] [11] [12]. -- SNSAnchor 18:09, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay, here are some problems with the sentence saying he is a “fiscal liberal”.
1, Illogical, the article starts out by calling him a "fiscal liberal" and then goes on to have a whole section on the controversy regarding whether or not he is or not, that just seems bias or illogical.
2. Unproven, just because CATO and The Club for Growth call him a fiscal liberal does not mean he is considered by the majority of Americans to be one(like the sentence states). CATO and The Club for Growth have their own agenda's. One of the reasons the Club for Growth and CATO are being so vicious toward Huckabee is because he is a populist. Liberals don't even call themselves liberals anymore; they call themselves "progressives". The word itself has controversy and should not be applied just because a liberation organization calls a candidate one.
In regards to changing the sentence to economic populist as stated in these articles [13], [14] back that claim. I can also find more sources for him being considered a strong social conservative. For now, until i find more solid evidence that he is perceived as a "economic populist' by Americans, i will not change it.
But the references on the "fiscal liberal" sentence, do not reflect what the sentence says, so it should be taken down until proved (in this case, by a poll of some sort). Thanks for the feedback, -- SNSAnchor 21:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
As "economic populist", the Sirota source disagrees that Huckabee is an economic populist. Weigel agrees that Huckabee's message is appealing and says voters will fall for it because they are "irrational". Weigel writes: "Sirota is right, and I've seen Huckabee win over skeptical rooms from Mitt Romney (and I've heard friends talk of him doing the same to Fred Thompson) with his populism. The frontrunning candidate will make some noise about tax cuts and bash Hillary: Huckabee will talk about "main street" and "family-friendly" tax reform. Voters are irrational, after all." Weigel doesn't think Huckabee is an economic populist. Instead, he thinks voters want to hear the words "main street' and "family-friendly". Jmegill 17:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
By the way, on January 28, 2007. Huckabee rejected pledging not to raise taxes.
MR. RUSSERT: So “read my lips, no new taxes”?
GOV. HUCKABEE: I think you got to be very careful. I, I wouldn’t propose any new taxes. I wouldn’t support any. But if we’re in a situation where we are in a different level of war, where there is no other option, I think that it’s a very dangerous position to make pledges that are outside the most important pledge you make, and that is the oath you take to uphold the Constitution and protect the people of the United States.
Of course, he later changed his position. source http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16785556/ and http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16785556/page/2/ It is controversial to ONLY mention that pledged not to raise taxes and not to mention that he couldn't make that pledge two months earlier. Jmegill 00:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
"His ratings "tanked" in 2002 and 2003, she said, as his approval rating decreased 47 percent. Parry credited the governor's involvement in the "divisive" issue of school consolidation with his decrease in approval." Huckabee had 47% approval ratings in 2002 and 2003. I consider high approval ratings above 65%. Please show sources above 65% in order to claim that Huckabee had high approval ratings. Here [4] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmegill ( talk • contribs) 23:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I swear. This guy views that are the polar opposite of mine. Could anybody direct me to someone who has beliefs opposite to this guy? 71.89.8.194 00:42, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
He's challenged Ron Paul to a debate, and the two disagree on Iraq and other things.-- Gloriamarie 22:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
i need your opinion on something... what are some of Huckabee's character traits (personality) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.52.159.157 ( talk) 03:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC) Can anyone find text of any of Huckabee's speeches? His school closing plans closed at least 3 schools that he flew to in the State police helicopter and told the children there that their school would stay open. I know that Mount Holly was one of them as I was there but cannot find a source.
Huckabee's degree according to his own website is in Speech, not Religion. He also no longer claims to have any hours toward a Masters. I have no citation for this, but at a commencement speech in 2004 at a public University in Arkansas he was claiming an Associate's Degree in Theology from OBU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.166.132 ( talk) 00:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Mike Huckabee did receive his B.A. from Ouachita Baptist University in 1975 and M.A. from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in 1980 according to these sources below.
Please see links:
http://www.infoplease.com/biography/var/mikehuckabee.html
http://pewforum.org/religion08/profile.php?CandidateID=10
OK Now 7 ( talk) 06:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Also, what should be possibly added for Mike Huckabee's B.A. is that he received a Bachelor of Arts in religion and a minor in communications.
OK Now 7 ( talk) 07:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Mike Huckabee is the devil incarnate...Is this still true after the youtube debate? The article states that "Huckabee believes in Biblical inerrancy." I'm not sure if this is absolutely correct. Did you see the youtube republican debate, especially question 20? Huckabee said that certain things in the bible are obviously allegorical.
I don't know how to change these articles or else I would change this myself. Go to the below link to the youtube debate and watch his response to question 20 for proof. He basically says that there are some parts that are obviously allegorical, but some parts like "love thy neighbor" are not. This implies that he does not literally believe EVERYTHING in the bible. http://www.youtube.com/republicandebate#qa_RF-nMaYq3QE
I looked up the article cited for this point, written in 1997, and it says:
"During his presidency from 1989 to 1991, Southern Baptists were feuding at the state and national level. The conservative wing believed in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Moderates believed some Bible stories were simply metaphors and parables.
Mr. Huckabee counted himself in the conservative camp, a believer in Biblical inerrancy.
"If you can accept the resurrection, that is the ultimate miracle," he said. "If you can buy that one, the others are easy:
turning water into wine and such."
Isn't this contradictory to what he said in the youtube debate?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/74473/output/print To answer your question: Huckabee says he believes in Biblical inerrancy from numerous sources. Does he contradict himself? I don't know enough about the arguments of inerrancy to make those kinds of judgments. I think you are getting at what the definition of inerrancy is and Huckabee supplied such a definition in the recent quote above. Jmegill ( talk) 21:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Lists are discouraged. See political positions section. Bothsidesspin ( talk) 00:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
The Judicial Watch stuff is highly POV and partisan. 69.19.14.20 ( talk) 03:57, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I am not seeing any evidence that Judicial Watch does not match the standards of a verifiability; Loonymonkey, or any other editor that has deleted this information, can you provide any evidence it is not verifiable? When you have something that is referenced by a reputable source, there is not reason to delete it; in fact, it is the single, greatest threshold for inclusion. More importantly, it completely meets the standards of neutrality, which would seem to be wholly lacking in all of your reasoning for deletion.
The reasons you have provided:
No legitimate reason to exclude the information has been given. To delete the information points to two major policies that are being broken ownership and balance. This petty edit war violates our policies and the continued deletion of the material amounts to vandalism, and may very well result in editors being blocked. -- Voire Dei ( talk) 07:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
From these sources it seems that Judicial Watch is not above reproach.
http://www.savingjudicialwatch.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Fitton
OK Now 7 ( talk) 06:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Computer Hard Drives Destroyed article from ArkansasNews.com. This is one example of an ethics charge brought against Mike Huckabee. This points out how easy it is for anybody to charge a governmental official with an ethics violation.
http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2007/07/27/News/342875.html
OK Now 7 ( talk) 06:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Are there more sources for Bill Gothard? I am not sure how significant this is. I would like to see sourcing on the programs that Huckabee actually adopted in Arkansas based on Gothard. Jmegill ( talk) 05:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Date: May 1, 2001
"..... In other news about "charitable choice
- Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (R) has ordered the Child Welfare Agency to give a contract to a fundamentalist-oriented home for troubled youngsters called The Lord's Ranch, despite the organization's reluctance to accept government oversight in the past.
Staffers at The Lord's Ranch, based in Warm Springs, blocked state inspectors from interviewing children about suspected abuse in 1994, reported the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. That same day, the Randolph County sheriff's office reported that Ted Suhl, director of the ranch, had purchased two AR-15 assault rifles, two shotguns and several handguns. (Suhl claims he bought just one handgun and did not keep it at the ranch.)
A 1996 report by state officials noted further compliance problems at the ranch. Nevertheless, Huckabee appointed Suhl to the Child Welfare Agency Licensing Board and approved the facility for $140,490 in state funds, to be used for psychological treatment of children.
Suhl and other officials at the Lord's Ranch donated $8,650 to Huckabee's reelection campaigns between December 1996 and December 2000, but he told the Democrat-Gazette the contributions had nothing to do with governor's support for the children's home.
Jmegill ( talk) 05:41, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
And in Arkansas, Republican Gov. Mike Huckabee, formerly the president of the Arkansas Baptist State Convention, also appointed an abstinence commission. Whereas only a decade ago, state officials were urging school-based health clinics to distribute contraception, today Arkansas is pushing a $1.4 million-a-year abstinence program run by conservatives.
Not surprisingly, state abstinence programs have attracted passionate criticism from liberals, and some programs have faced charges of fraud and mismanagement. The first round of contracts awarded by Arkansas' abstinence program was delayed by the state legislature, which suspected bias in the grant review process toward groups aligned with national conservative organizations; the legislators subsequently learned that the governor's abstinence committee had kept no meeting minutes bylaws. from Pork for prudes: how conservatives score, while teaching kids not to.From: Washington Monthly Date: September 1, 2002 Author: Larson, Christina Jmegill ( talk) 06:00, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
MARK MINTON ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE With a former Baptist minister as governor, Arkansas has joined the vanguard of a movement to lower the barriers between religion and government.
Since Gov. Mike Huckabee took office four years ago, the state has hired church groups to run welfare and youth programs while rewriting state contracts and laws to affirm the groups' religious freedoms -- such as their freedom to reject a job candidate or client whose religion differs from their own.
Critics call this taxpayer-financed discrimination. Supporters say it allows church groups to compete with other private organizations seeking government service contracts.
With President Bush touting "faith-based initiatives" as a way for government to enlist highly motivated church groups, supporters and skeptics alike are searching the country to see how such partnerships work. Arkansas is at the forefront of what one Huckabee aide calls a "national experiment."
At a time when a school prayer or even a public nativity scene can set off a constitutional uproar, few noticed when Huckabee in October ordered state agencies to follow guidelines that give faith groups new prerogatives when they sign government contracts.
Under the guidelines, groups no longer must cloak their religion when they contract to run welfare-to-work programs, said Chris Pyle, the governor's family policy director.
Faith groups that in the past had to "secularize" when they signed a contract now have permission to leave their religious symbols and artwork on the walls and to offer religious programs as long as attendance is voluntary, tax money doesn't directly underwrite them, and welfare clients are not pressured to convert, Pyle said..... " Can't post the whole thing here because its copyright, but it does mention Lord's Ranch and Ted Suhl later in the article. 18:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
That's the material you need to use as a source. That supports the premise your other information builds on. Now you can move forward. As for the looking for negative information, while I have seen you remove some, you certainly add much much more negative information than positive, and you do so regularly. I'm not stopping you nor regularly reverting you, but I would like to see you undertake either overall less editing of the article, or do the same volume, but in a more balanced manner. You sometimes seem to pull the negative parts of articles here, and I'm sure you're omitting the positive sides of some. Try to keep your editing balanced, and it makes keeping the entire article balanced easier. Also keep in mind, I've defended your edits in the past, so if I"m percieving some possible trouble, perhaps that's a sign that there could actually be problems, not just people randomly objecting to you. ThuranX ( talk) 20:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
<math>Insert non-formatted text here</math>In a nationally broadcast radio, Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee once compared the State of Arkansas to a “banana republic.” See, "Huckabee: State like a 'banana republic'." Arkansas DemocratGazette 7 Nov. 2000. At http://rickspencer.com/wcc.asp, you will find absolute proof of gross abuse of injured workers and every concept of justice and due process upon which this country is founded by Former Governor Huckabee’s administrative. This proof unequivocally establishes that Mr. Huckabee allowed the insurance and self-insured industries in Arkansas to control how Judges vote in cases presented to them without regard to the facts or the law. You will also find absolute proof that Huckabee attempted to establish a “business friendly” environment in the State of Arkansas through the use of coercive tactics that are similar to the tactics used by the dictators of the “banana republics” to which he compared this State. Specifically, in response to influences and pressure from private interests and to further his quest to create a “business friendly” environment in this State that favors private enterprise, Huckabee’s administration focused extreme pressure on the administrative law judges of the Workers’ Compensation Commission and the Commissioners themselves to decide claims presented to them in favor of employers and insurance carriers or else these judges would be fired. This pressure focused directly and substantially upon the mental decision-making processes of the administrative law judges and Commissioners. The affect of this pressure compromised and impaired the appearance of impartiality which is so essential to any concept of justice and fair play. In fact, at least three administrative law judges were fired by Huckabee because they did not decide cases presented to them in the manner dictated by Mr. Huckabee. The constitutionality of Mr. Huckabee’s actions has been challenged by Attorney Rick Spencer, in Mountain Home, Arkansas. The brief which Mr. Spencer has submitted to the Appellate Courts in Arkansas, as well as the depositions of members of Mr. Huckabee’s staff as well as Mr. Huckabee himself, which corroborate these allegations, can be found on Mr. Spencer’s web site, which can be found above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rookie72116 ( talk • contribs) 23:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
The deposition testimony is more than a blog or an Arkansas Resident with an axe to grind. The deposition testimony is sworn testimony by Huckabee, his chief of staff, and several members of his staff. There testimony is not the opinion of Mr. Spencer or any other Arkansas resident. They document the actions and attitudes of Mr. Huckabee. Whether it can be used in this article, I don't know. The deposition testimony of Mr. Huckabee and his staff members do provide insight into Mr. Huckabee's values.
Considering that David Huckabee is already wikilinked, I question whether the David Huckabee dog incident merits its own subsection. Perhaps it is undue weight. Jmegill ( talk) 22:35, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Didn't his comments on Pakistan sharing an eastern border with Afghanistan draw more criticism then the Pakistan immigrant thing? [17] Nil Einne ( talk) 21:32, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I heard he mentioned college scholarships in a speech. Does anyone know what he said in particular?-- Playstationdude ( talk) 22:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't his stance(s) on Global Warming and other environmental issues like alternative energy be listed? Cowicide ( talk) 10:07, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Huckabee's crossing of the writer's picket line to appear on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno on the day before the Iowa Caucus was well covered in the media and is relavent to his political behavior and ideals. It deserves mention on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.26.106.9 ( talk) 18:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
where should Nick names like Tax Hike Mike and being # 6 on Judicial Watch's 10 most wanted corrupt politicians go? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.6.100.56 ( talk) 20:11, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Channel 3 KTBS in Texarkana did a recent story about Mike Huckabee. The part about Dennis Young is interesting.
http://www.ktbs.com/news/Mike-Huckabee:-The-Next-Man-From-Hope-Part-Two-8433/ —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.30.181.105 (
talk) 05:54, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Here's part one
http://www.ktbs.com/news/Mike-Huckabee:-The-Next-Man-from-Hope-8410/# —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.30.181.105 (
talk) 06:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
If there is a sub section on David Huckabee on the Mike Huckabee page it should give a more detailed account of the incident rather than a one sentice description that is purely anti-huckabee and gives no balanced description of the incident, on one said of a hearsay story. This is an encycolpedic website, only having one sentice on one side of a hearsay situation is rediculous. Rtr10 ( talk) 04:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Please don't remove the wikilink for Capitol Offense from the lede. Red links aren't bad, especially when there's a high likelihood they'll turn blue soon. Bellwether B C 01:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
"Governor Huckabee was a keynote speaker at the Southern Baptist 1998 Convention in Salt Lake City [183] in which one convention sermon offered by a different minister referred to Salt Lake City as "headquarters of a counterfeit Christianity."[184] " This sentence should be removed from the article because it does not refer to something Huckabee said or did. This is a guilt by association smear. The question of Huckabee's views on Mormonism should only include information that Huckabee himself provided and not include what his associates said or did. Jmegill ( talk) 01:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
http://www.newsweek.com/id/74469/page/4 The church is in pine bluff. I had thought I picked up that piece of information from the article, but really it was in Newsweek. Perhaps I should have mentioned Newsweek as a source before I had you shell out 2.95 for Scott Parks. My bad. Really I don't think that the racist slur is going to work against Huckabee. The SBC's past actions on race should not be mentioned in this article because it is irrelevant to Huckabee. There is no evidence that Huckabee has racist sentiment or feelings and plenty of evidence that he cares about blacks and hispanics. For example, while Governor, he significantly increased government spending for low income children, many of whom are members of minority groups. Jmegill ( talk) 04:24, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
(new indent) This seems to be more difficult to understand than I thought. It is understandable that for any organization, and particularly religious ones, to review history and admit wrong doing. What is applicable about this? I will be blunt. We are not talking about the bloody middle ages. We are talking about when the civil rights movement was at its peak in the 1960's. The reason the Southern Baptists church exists, by its own admission, is because of their desire to defend, protect, and promulgate slavery in the US. Their actions into the 1970's continued to be racist. This is the same church that Huckabee chose not only in which to be a member, but to become a minister. At the time of his becoming a minister Southern Baptists churches still did not allow blacks to become members of their churches. The SBC did not participate in the civil rights movement, but rather sat on the side lines. George Wallace, another SBC member, exemplifies well the mind of their membership at the time of the civil rights movement when he spoke those terrible words, "I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever". This is the church Huckabee grew up in, prospered in, and chose as his career. It was not just a passing fad, but became his life.
Think about it, we are praising him for integrating a SB church in the mid 1980's! This was well after the rest of the US had become integrated. We are giving him credit for something the rest of the world is doing? Surely you see the silliness of such a task. It is like telling a 20 year old that he has accomplished something because he no longer throws himself on the floor in a tantrum similar to a two year old; it is no accomplishment. It would have been different if he had done something at his college as a student or he was active in the civil rights movement, which he was not. He not only sat on the sidelines, but chose membership in a group that continued to have a racist culture.
It is not slanderous to Southern Baptist churches to discuss history nor is it slanderous to their membership. It is factual history. Also, just because people are unfamiliar with history does not mean it should not be known. In 1995 the SBC sought forgiveness for their past; they acknowledged it, I wonder why it should not be acknowledged here. He was more than just an active participant. -- Storm Rider (talk) 01:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Can we just close this? We're spiraling. We obviously have a consensus. Storm Rider, I've always respected the work you do here. You're not the stereotypical edit warrior. Can we move on? -- Elliskev 02:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree with ThuranX and Alanraywiki to a certain extent. I think it would be ridiculous to start talking about Huckabee's religious organization's past beliefs. Doing so would mean we would have to go through every Democratic politician's article and say that their political party was founded on a pro-slavery platform. Then we would have to go through every Republican politician's article and say that their political party was founded on an anti-slavery platform. This would mean getting way off subject. I still don't understand why Storm Rider doesn't seem to understand that, but I'm glad to see he has gotten past this, so I will go ahead and close the discussion. DiligentTerrier • talk | sign here 20:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)