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Didn't Thelonious Monk write in quarter-tones?
Do you think it might be wise to say that using more than 12 notes (i.e. 19, or 31 notes per octave) isn't necessarily microtonal? The reason for this is that the composer would be aiming to get close to the Just intervals. The rest of the notes are effectively 'scrapped' temparily, so it's not exactly 'microtonal' music (where all the notes are given more or less equal priority). Could anyone confirm this? -- Daniel
Can someone confirm the material on Black Flag? Can it be referenced to a reliable source? Thank you.
This article doesn't mention it. Can some expert please fill in?
Would it make more sense to speak of the history of microtonal music in jazz? Jazz (and blues) musicians have rarely actually adhered to the even tempered 12-tone scale, though perhaps much of this wouldn't be considered microtonal if the notes are just bent/adjusted tones from non-microntonal scales/chords. It just seems odd to make this passing reference to the use of microtones in rock and neglect their greater prominence in jazz...
If something is written about microtonalism in jazz, then certainly Don Ellis should be included. His big band featured Ellis on quarter tone trumpet for some tunes. Also, Neil Haverstick plays some jazz in 19 tet, and possibly other tunings. 209.155.42.138 00:20, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Steve Lantner has worked in this area too, using 2 pianos tuned a quarter tone apart... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.125.54.65 ( talk) 21:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
I noticed some links to some microtonal music software. I would like to see my freeware program on this list (but I realize it might be inappropriate to add it myself).
- Rainwarrior 19:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Tuning down a quarter step does not qualify as microtonal. The tuning is still 12 tone equal temperament, simply because you tune to a different standard than A440 does not qualify as microtonal. It is still quite normal tuning. - Rainwarrior 19:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I have added the triamu (3mu) to the History section, in relation to Carillo's 1/8 semitone, since it is now a basic and recognized unit in the tuning of MIDI instruments. (Mu is an ancronymn of Midi unit.) Prof.rick 01:17, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
This section is oddly sparse. Right now it reads like a mini bio of Carrillo. Why don't we mention Aristoxenus, Ptolemy, Vincenzo Galilei, Johannes Kepler, Giuseppe Tartini, Christiaan Huygens, Marin Mersenne, Nicholas Mercator, Charles Ives, Harry Partch, et cetera et cetera (this very article has a ton of links to bio pages)?? I think we should fill this out a lot more, and we don't need to have so much Carrillo in there, that stuff is covered on his own bio page. What we need is an overview of who did what, an overview of the development. We don't need biographies of these people, we need to discuss how they fit in to the ongoing progress of microtonal music. If I ever get the time, I'll write this, but right now I've got a lot of other things on my to-do list, so this is just a suggestion, in case anyone wants to step up and do it. - Rainwarrior 04:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
This article seems to have alot of original research. I noticed in several places wording such as "therefore" and "if we define...".
Also the phrase "severe bias" when referring to this article isn't appropriate. The article should be fixed to remove the bias or explain that it is the common usage of a group of people and that other groups use some other term. -Crunchy Numbers 16:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I am unable to find any mention or support in any text or dictionary for a great deal of this article. The article concentrates on the idea of equating "microtonal" with "xenharmonic", or "sounding different from Western music". Aside from being offensively Eurocentric, the term "xenharmonic" doesn't seem to be in any published music dictionary, either. If anyone knows of a reference, please post. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Frank Zamjatin (
talk •
contribs)
05:14, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
What is offensive is calling that which is "different from European" strange or foreign. This puts Western Europe at the "center", and assumes it as the "norm". How can that NOT be an offesive idea? I realize that the term was not intended to be taken that way, rather the opposite, Darreg clearly being a xenophile here. Nevertheless... it is the year 2008, or should I say 1429 AH? :-) At any rate, I simply replaced the nonsensical and unreferenced equation of "microtonal" with "xenharmonic", previously found in the definition, with "see xenharmonic". One reason the claim that another definition of "microtonal" is "xenharmonic" is silly, is the fact (noted in the Wiki, don't know by whom or when) that a great deal of "xenharmonic" music is, to use another Darreg neologism, "macrotonal", a fine term for great big scale steps rather than little tiny ones.
He died in 1722. So he can't have written any pieces in the 1730's ... check dates, please. -- Tdent 19:57, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
What is the point of the redlinks to composers? Do we have some source that asserts their notability? (And if we do, why not start a stub at least?) A name and a birth-year isn't useful information, and how do we know the difference between a redlink that is vanity and one that is not? - Rainwarrior 08:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
As for names such as Matther, Stahnke or Mandelbaum (especially these ones) I can assure you, they are important names. And I have to add Alain Bancquart and Jack Beherens as well.
There is a large section of another text inserted at the beginning of the terminology section, with a link to it's source. I can't find any indication that the author of the text gave permission to use it, but it seems to have survived in the article for quite a while. Does anyone know the status of this?
Even if this isn't copyvio, it definately doesn't fit with the style of the rest of the article, and needs some rewriting. -- Starwed 12:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Debussy was not a microtonal composer. I think one mention of him is worth making, to distinguish non-diatonic music from microtonality, but whoever wrote the terminology section has some kind of fixation in the matter. Giamberardino 16:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to bring in that the relevant info on Indian music is so sparse and put in a blind corner, that no enlightenment of the subject can be found here. It seems hardly relevant. And that while these very rich musical traditions offer interesting observations about 'microtonality'. Since in Indian Classical Music (ICM) a wide variety of scales are in use, in which the 6 mutable tones (fifth/Pa is basically fixed) can have very distinct and characteristic positions it would already qualify as 'microtonal'. But there is much more to it than just having a lot variant scales. To sum up some characteristics:
- tuning of string instruments is done to a level of microtonal precision. Indian string instruments have a sound particularly rich in harmonics, and tuning is done on a high resolution level of harmonic resonance. Even in tuning the four-string tanpura the 4th/Ma can have variant degrees for different ragas. Very often pure fifth relations can be found in the notes used: if the second tone/Re is particularly low, the flattened 6th is also in a very low position to pure-parallel (sound as a 3rd, 6th,12th harmonic of the lower tone. The more 5th-parallels there are in a scale, the more resonant and consonant it will be. Of course, other ragas exist in which this consonance is lacking, which is a significant way of expressing particular moods of anxiety.
- microtonal ornamentation can be found on different levels. One is 'timbre-modulation' and is available mostly to vocalists, the other is a continuous fluent, legato tonal movement, called 'meend'. Meend is any fluent movement from one pitch to an other - but don't think sleezy glissando's here - it is an exact movement between the fixed pitches and there is a very extensive vocabulary for it for every raga. To be more precise, as it is not generally found in recent western music, it is a very specific and controlled way of moving around between the notes. For easy comparison: it is exactly what a keyboard-instrument can not do - it can only render block-print. Compare that to Baroque handwriting with many elegant slurs and curls - a whealth of diversity opens up! Indian music is like a calligraphy of continuously modulated sound. Calligraphers and vocalists practice years and years on getting the shapes of their curls and slurs just right. Interestingly, a parallel that presents itself from Western culture is 'Gregorian Chant' as we know it from 10th century manuscripts which use a graphic system of neumes (sign of the hand) which also makes use of precisely shaped 'meends' comprising 2,3 or many notes.
If this kind of information is to be found anywhere, it should be here on WIKI. Says I, of course... what say you? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Martin spaink ( talk • contribs) 22:39, August 20, 2007 (UTC).
1/4 comma meantone is NOT identical with 31 equal, it only comes CLOSE. strictly speaking: it uses the interval 5/4, which 31 equal does NOT! huygens took 1/4 comma meantone as a starting point for his suggested 31 equal, but his mathematics are substantially different. we must go for precision in this article: my suggestion. Kmbemb 23:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
does anyone know the minimum difference in pitch able to be detected by a human? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.177.164.231 ( talk) 21:35, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
No. There are many tests, but they are tests, not real-life playing and listening situations, so the best anyone could honestly claim would be something like "within x cents in such and such tests". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank Zamjatin ( talk • contribs) 05:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, melodically, the smallest pitch diffrence a human can percieve is about 6 cents, although that is subject to change depending on other factors.
Harmonicly, no tests have ever been done, but it is deffinitley way lower than 6 cents.
I have found a diffrence of 0.01 hz to be un-noticable, but I don't know where the line is drawn exactly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.112.132 ( talk) 15:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
The graf
As Joel Mandelbaum has pointed out in his PhD thesis "Multiple Division Of the Octave and the Tonal Resources of the 19 Tone Temperament" (1960), scholarship done on the Montpellier Codex suggests that it records microtonal tunings, probably the Greek enharmonic. Thus the evidence appears to show that microtonal tunings survived and were commonly used late into the medieval period.
has two problems, IMO.
Best, -- Shlishke ( talk) 04:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
"Xenharmonic" is a related term, not an alternative definition of "microtonal". If there are any references (textbooks, dictionaries, peer-reviewed journals) supporting this idea, they need to be listed. Otherwise, all definitions of and speculations as to what is and what is not "xenharmonic" need to be in the "xeharmonic" wiki, not in the "microtonal" wiki.
In addition, microtonalities which are an essential part of various musical traditions around the world need to be mentioned, by someone qualified to do so. The Indian concept of "meend" is an example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank Zamjatin ( talk • contribs) 09:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
In answer to Jerome Kohl's question "Has any previous editor of this article actually *read* Aristoxenos", the answer is, at least one has read enough, and enough about, to know that this statement: "Of the tuning of ancient Greek music we have a comprehensive record, courtesy of Aristoxenos' surviving texts on music." needs to be removed.
The bit about ancient Greek music has now been stripped down to the basics that can be found in any dictionary or text on the subject. It needs to be expanded, but not in a "personal essay" manner. Wikipedia is not the place to continue the time-honored but nonetheless bogus tradition of justifying or otherwise shining a glamorous light on one's own theories by interpreting the scant hard evidence on ancient Greek music to taste in order to create an illusion of royal lineage.
Took out the spam in the Electronica section, as well as the request for a citation on the general comment about alternative tunings and electronica. The link to Jim Aikin's article I added should hopefully be enough (the statement as it now stands would hardly be challenged by anyone familiar with the field). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank Zamjatin ( talk • contribs) 11:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I put the secondary definition of "microtonal" back in, but without directly equating "microtonal" with "xenharmonic". Please see The New Grove 1st ed. ( ISBN 1-56159-174-2) vol.12 p. 279 on microtonal music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank Zamjatin ( talk • contribs) 09:53, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Editor Gwalla has asked that eight items on this page which have the hidden-text comments usual on Wikipedia (explaining the nature of needed missing references) be announced here. I was responsible for putting those eight calls for reference (as well as some others that seem self-evident), so I suppose it is my responsibility to comply with Gwalla's request. Please consider them announced.— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 21:50, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
The "Usage" section has been there a long time, without citations. Quite clearly a bit of "original research". It's not that I disagree with it, or don't think it could be a very nice section, but it is not appropriate to this page as it is. This is just a notification that if it's not referenced fairly soon it will be removed. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 12:15, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Tonraum30.11-14 1.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 15:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
The DMOZ search template, and by implication all DMOZ search links, is being considered for deletion because it violates WP:ELNO #9. Anyone interested in discussing the fate of Open Directory Project (DMOZ) search links is invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Dmoz2. Qazin ( talk) 05:59, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Guys, please keep discussions out of HTML comments. Use talkpages for that. HTML comments should only be used in very rare circumstances as rationales for certain pieces of information or markup, to ward off likely edit warring. There is almost never a need for paragraph-length comments. — Gwalla | Talk 17:41, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
The youtube video link once offered here is (1) not a reliable source unless the video can be traced to a reliable publisher Wikipedia:Reliable_source_examples#Are_IRC.2C_MySpace.2C_and_YouTube_reliable_sources.3F, and (2) the video does not verify either that TAP made the modifications to their instruments visible in the video, nor that their intention was to "explore unexpected soundtextures", nor that the bass guitar's musical scale is "changed".
SFBG: How do you prepare your bass?
PN: I have a dowel rod under the strings. I tune it to this non-standard range. You have this thing called A440 that you base your tuner on. We’re totally out of that range. For me, it’s very fulfilling to play this way because I can still get new life out of the same instrument. I can play it like a guitar, a saxophone, or a voice. That’s the funnest part of it, to go crazy. It’s a combination of letting your subconscious and condition lead the way and playing what you think sounds cool. For us, it’s trying to fit crazy sounds into a song format without traditional structure. 83.87.170.234 ( talk) 08:19, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me a significant gap that Arab music and maqam is only mention in 'See Also'. Not that I'm qualified to make the additions. Dlabtot ( talk) 05:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I like that this section is getting expanded, but it's definitely starting to fall under WP:NOTTEXTBOOK. BrutishBloodGod ( talk) 01:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
How, why, where? Hyacinth ( talk) 14:08, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Aside from the two topics mentioned briefly above (xenharmonic & Aristoxenos). What, why, where, and how does this article need to be cleaned up? Hyacinth ( talk) 19:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
In the lists of microtone composers, and indeed in this entire article, why is there no mention of John Corigliano? (ex. Symphony No. 1 and Chiaroscuro) Bradtwotrees ( talk) 06:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Proper references, please. No more personal essay stuff, please. I left some "personal essay" passages (Vincento for example) in because they can easily be referenced and shown to be sound statements. If this material is not properly referenced soon (and I cannot promise that I will have the time to do so), it must, by the standards of Wikipedia (not to mention fair intelligent discourse) be removed. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 12:27, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I agree that referenced material of Blackwood's should certainly be incorporated into the article, but I was unable to untangle it from the dubious material in which it was lodged. Hopefully I'll never be under the knife of surgeon so ruthless, now that you mention it... I trust that those with, or with access to, the Blackwood book will insert a clean and pointed paragraph about various equal divisions.
I was under the impression that the very purpose of the current construction of the reference list (I see you corrected my formatting) was to enable the presentation of reference material not necessarily found in the article, as well as to allow multiple references to a single book without creating a vast repetitive list. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 05:30, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Some of the material I sliced was mine, but, as yours was, it was worked into, or a rewriting of, pre-existing material which I felt had fundamental problems. Of course I won't be offended if you're ruthless, it's a quality article we're after. "Microtonalism" is a magnet for flat-earthers and those wielding Atlantean crystals, so to speak, and the mainstream typically has little to say on the subject, unfortunately tolerating bogosities as great as those perpetrated by kooks: see Taruskin's description of Partch's system as "unequally tempered". (!) Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 07:43, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Rather alarmingly, I'd often rather hear incompetent garage bands than excellent 12-tET piano sonatas these days, probably because of the inescapable "autotuned" 12-tET pop coming out of "every speaker everywhere all the time". At any rate, I think you're right that we should cite the essay-like quotes as quotes.
We also have problems of.... moral? dimensions. Barbour, for example, is a recognized authority, and his writing is scholarly. But, there is a Barbour essay (which I have somewhere, have to find the reference to give you) on temperament which is, viewed coldly, more than a little suggestive of a thinnly-disguised hysterical rant cursing all that dares to question the sanctity of 12-tET. And, surely I am not the only one harboring the suspicion that he spent little if any time actually working, by ear, with any of the various tunings he discusses. Although logic precludes the argument from authority, we must honestly concede that there is in reality more than a little of trust in authority in scholarship. So: hmmmmmm..... We also have those whose authority in the realm of microtonality is definitely recognized in the "mainstream", Carillo and Partch, the only avowed microtonalists, as far as I know, to be discussed in Taruskin's History of Everything According to Mr. T. (you know the volumes to which I refer). No suspicion of close-minded ignorance hiding behind good scholarship in these cases; these were practising microtonal musicians. Yet, as Taruskin so gleefully suggests in his entertainingly evil way, as composers these two are, by the standards of the Western art music tradition.... perhaps we should take this in private discussion. :-)
In sum, especially in this problematic field, we cannot help but to exercise a great deal of essaying and critical opinion of sources by simply including or excluding material. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 09:58, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes indeed. Do you think it's about time to remove the "cleanup" tag? As the article stands, it's not bad at all. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 11:43, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
Could you put in some kind of neutral "QED" statement to the effect "there are many equal divisions...", then put in the Blackwood quotes? Another thing missing is Bohlen-Pierce, but that's a strange one, because I can't think of any of the more or less younger generation I know who has studied composition with an electronic bent, or even just a good introduction to Pd, Max, etc., who hasn't heard of BP, yet I can't recall ever having coming across it in the more sombre tomes we like to use as references. Perhaps simply a link to the wiki page would be enough. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 18:29, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
What kind of audio files would we like on the page? Hyacinth ( talk) 04:10, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
I find that the order, which apparently is in chronological birth order, to be illogical and confusing to read. None of these lists are really addressing when these people started "pioneering" or "composing" or "researching" microtonal music. Such a list, if so desired, would be possible to do albeit very tedious to put together. That would require substantial time in researching and then reordering the list. And then there would also be the sticky point, does one make a list by completion or publication date of the composition? If the intended information was to give a sense of when microtonality was pioneered, composed, or researched, it really fails. Just because a microtonalist was born earlier than someone else does not mean that that person should be earlier on the timeline. Makes no sense at all and does not follow good practice.
I propose that each of these three lists be re-ordered alphabetically according to last name. That would be more logical and understandable for those who are perusing these lists. Even the major composer dictionaries and encyclopedias (ex. Groves, New Harvard) by definition do not do a chronological listing but an alphabetical one. The lists in this topic should also so be listed. -- B0cean ( talk) 05:51, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
What qualifies Varèse as a "quarter-tone pioneer"? I can only recall a few bars in the original version of "Amériques", which he later deleted, and his electronic compositions (Déserts, Poème électronique). (But do they qualify as micro-tonal? They are not quarter-tone, that's for sure.) -- megA ( talk) 11:09, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
We are curious to know why the composer Myster Shadow-Sky who discovered starting in 1982 (with his piece Ourdission) a huge amount of nonoctave scales is periodically banned from the "Recent microtonal composers" list? His work shows him as a pioneer concerning the harmonic nonoctave scales and the new harmony resulting from his Nonoctave Scalar Field Theory. More than 250 shadow-sky scales available for free download for composers and musicians to create a new music sound. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.23.245.10 ( talk) 14:31, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
I noticed in this discussion a word 'microtonality', but in the article which this discussion relates to, there is no 'microtonality'. Instead I found there in the body of the article 'microtonalism', despite the article is categorized as 'microtonality'. From this mishmash arose my question: is 'microtonality' synonym for 'microtonalism'? Can someone explain what is 'microtonality' (and does it have something common with 'tonality') directly in the WP article? Olorulus ( talk) 18:23, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
A teacher of user Olorulus was Kholopov who invented the chimeric word микрохроматика (microchromatics), but nobody has ever called any microtone as микрохром (microсhrome). Therefore, along with the penetration to the Russian-language musicology the necessity to discuss microtones, naturally is used word микротоника (microtonicism) displacing Kholopov's absurd микрохроматика.
User Olorulus is hard working over censorship Russian language Wiki, advertising himself, Kholopov and prolonging life a dying микрохроматика, so his aim was to push into English Wiki article as many mentions of the stupid word as will be allowed here. -- 93.76.31.226 ( talk) 20:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
Alois Hába indeed used terms for other microintervals, but in the cited sources (shown with precise bibliographic data) he described specifically "čtvrttónové soustavě". Quarter-tone-system was seemingly prevalent for practical composition in the defined time and defined regions. Also, in several editions of the very popular in German-speaking area Riemann Musiklexikon until recent Brockhaus-Riemann (1995) there is only 'Vierteltonmusik' article (in which also other microtones are mentioned), but no 'Sechsteltonmusik', 'Zwölfteltonmusik' or whatever. If you recognize this, then please clarify, what do you see wrong with the citation for "čtvrttónové soustavě". For an evaluation of the view on Hába as 'quarter-tone-composer' that time the evidence from Lotte Kallenbach-Greller might be helpful:
Schließlich komme ich zum wichtigsten, weil konsequentesten Vertreter der Vierteltonmusik, der es sich zur Aufgabe gestellt hat, nur in Vierteltönen zu komponieren: Alois Hába. Er lebt in Prag, leitet dort eine Kompositionsklasse für Vierteltonmusik und ist, wenn mir die Parallele noch einmal erlaubt sein mag, der Vicentino unserer Zeit, nur mit dem Unterschied... usw.
Lotte Kallenbach-Greller, Die historischen Grundlagen der Vierteltöne // Archiv für Musikwissenschaft 8 (1927), S.484.
Olorulus ( talk) 09:20, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Dear colleague, you changed
Microtonal music can also refer to music which uses intervals not found in the Western system of twelve equal intervals to the octave.
to
Microtonal music also includes music using intervals not found in the customary Western system of twelve equal intervals per octave
I consider this view 'europocentric'. The concept of 'microtonal inflexions' from 12ET takes for granted this temperament and using reverse extrapolation explains traditional Eastern scales as 'microtonal' deviations from 12ET which is evidently absurd. The classical example is a so called 'neutral third' which is explained as a 'microtonal inflexion' from both 'European' thirds while a scale which contains the mentioned 'neutral third' is used in Oriental traditions for centuries and has nothing to do with either polyphony (which was the cause of temperament in Europe) or 'microchromatic' genus (which you call 'microtonality'). My point, it is better to leave a modal and encyclopedic statement like 'the expression "microtonal music" can refer to microtonal inflexions... (or 'with "microtonal music" are also described intervals in non-Western early traditions which slightly deviate from the European 12ET modern tuning'). Please consider it. Olorulus ( talk) 07:30, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Microtonal music or microtonality is the music with microtones (also called 'microintervals') used as ornamental inflexions of basically diatonic/chromatic scales or substantial elements of specifically microtonal scales. Some scholars also call 'microtonal' music with intervals which deviate from a semitone of the Western 12-tone equal temperament. Olorulus ( talk) 10:09, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
I feel like this page is extremely Eurocentric and leaves out the long history of Indian tradition which has been using microtones for far longer. This page needs a major rewrite, or at least, a huge addition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.162.186.255 ( talk) 05:36, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi there, just to say I've proposed a project Microtonal Music, Tuning, Temperaments and Scales .
It's scope would include everything in the now inactive Wikipedia:WikiProject Tunings, Temperaments, and_Scales ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) project,. But it adds "Microtonal Music" to the title. This makes it broader in scope, for instance to include microtonal compositions and composition technique, microtonal chords, microtonal composers, microtonal organizations, microtonal regional and national music, etc etc. The idea is that as a larger project we would get more participation.
If you support the idea please add your name to the #Support section, or if you have any thoughts on it that you want to share, do add your voice to its Discussion section. Thanks! Robert Walker ( talk) 23:48, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
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Didn't Thelonious Monk write in quarter-tones?
Do you think it might be wise to say that using more than 12 notes (i.e. 19, or 31 notes per octave) isn't necessarily microtonal? The reason for this is that the composer would be aiming to get close to the Just intervals. The rest of the notes are effectively 'scrapped' temparily, so it's not exactly 'microtonal' music (where all the notes are given more or less equal priority). Could anyone confirm this? -- Daniel
Can someone confirm the material on Black Flag? Can it be referenced to a reliable source? Thank you.
This article doesn't mention it. Can some expert please fill in?
Would it make more sense to speak of the history of microtonal music in jazz? Jazz (and blues) musicians have rarely actually adhered to the even tempered 12-tone scale, though perhaps much of this wouldn't be considered microtonal if the notes are just bent/adjusted tones from non-microntonal scales/chords. It just seems odd to make this passing reference to the use of microtones in rock and neglect their greater prominence in jazz...
If something is written about microtonalism in jazz, then certainly Don Ellis should be included. His big band featured Ellis on quarter tone trumpet for some tunes. Also, Neil Haverstick plays some jazz in 19 tet, and possibly other tunings. 209.155.42.138 00:20, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Steve Lantner has worked in this area too, using 2 pianos tuned a quarter tone apart... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.125.54.65 ( talk) 21:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
I noticed some links to some microtonal music software. I would like to see my freeware program on this list (but I realize it might be inappropriate to add it myself).
- Rainwarrior 19:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Tuning down a quarter step does not qualify as microtonal. The tuning is still 12 tone equal temperament, simply because you tune to a different standard than A440 does not qualify as microtonal. It is still quite normal tuning. - Rainwarrior 19:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I have added the triamu (3mu) to the History section, in relation to Carillo's 1/8 semitone, since it is now a basic and recognized unit in the tuning of MIDI instruments. (Mu is an ancronymn of Midi unit.) Prof.rick 01:17, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
This section is oddly sparse. Right now it reads like a mini bio of Carrillo. Why don't we mention Aristoxenus, Ptolemy, Vincenzo Galilei, Johannes Kepler, Giuseppe Tartini, Christiaan Huygens, Marin Mersenne, Nicholas Mercator, Charles Ives, Harry Partch, et cetera et cetera (this very article has a ton of links to bio pages)?? I think we should fill this out a lot more, and we don't need to have so much Carrillo in there, that stuff is covered on his own bio page. What we need is an overview of who did what, an overview of the development. We don't need biographies of these people, we need to discuss how they fit in to the ongoing progress of microtonal music. If I ever get the time, I'll write this, but right now I've got a lot of other things on my to-do list, so this is just a suggestion, in case anyone wants to step up and do it. - Rainwarrior 04:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
This article seems to have alot of original research. I noticed in several places wording such as "therefore" and "if we define...".
Also the phrase "severe bias" when referring to this article isn't appropriate. The article should be fixed to remove the bias or explain that it is the common usage of a group of people and that other groups use some other term. -Crunchy Numbers 16:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I am unable to find any mention or support in any text or dictionary for a great deal of this article. The article concentrates on the idea of equating "microtonal" with "xenharmonic", or "sounding different from Western music". Aside from being offensively Eurocentric, the term "xenharmonic" doesn't seem to be in any published music dictionary, either. If anyone knows of a reference, please post. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Frank Zamjatin (
talk •
contribs)
05:14, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
What is offensive is calling that which is "different from European" strange or foreign. This puts Western Europe at the "center", and assumes it as the "norm". How can that NOT be an offesive idea? I realize that the term was not intended to be taken that way, rather the opposite, Darreg clearly being a xenophile here. Nevertheless... it is the year 2008, or should I say 1429 AH? :-) At any rate, I simply replaced the nonsensical and unreferenced equation of "microtonal" with "xenharmonic", previously found in the definition, with "see xenharmonic". One reason the claim that another definition of "microtonal" is "xenharmonic" is silly, is the fact (noted in the Wiki, don't know by whom or when) that a great deal of "xenharmonic" music is, to use another Darreg neologism, "macrotonal", a fine term for great big scale steps rather than little tiny ones.
He died in 1722. So he can't have written any pieces in the 1730's ... check dates, please. -- Tdent 19:57, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
What is the point of the redlinks to composers? Do we have some source that asserts their notability? (And if we do, why not start a stub at least?) A name and a birth-year isn't useful information, and how do we know the difference between a redlink that is vanity and one that is not? - Rainwarrior 08:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
As for names such as Matther, Stahnke or Mandelbaum (especially these ones) I can assure you, they are important names. And I have to add Alain Bancquart and Jack Beherens as well.
There is a large section of another text inserted at the beginning of the terminology section, with a link to it's source. I can't find any indication that the author of the text gave permission to use it, but it seems to have survived in the article for quite a while. Does anyone know the status of this?
Even if this isn't copyvio, it definately doesn't fit with the style of the rest of the article, and needs some rewriting. -- Starwed 12:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Debussy was not a microtonal composer. I think one mention of him is worth making, to distinguish non-diatonic music from microtonality, but whoever wrote the terminology section has some kind of fixation in the matter. Giamberardino 16:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to bring in that the relevant info on Indian music is so sparse and put in a blind corner, that no enlightenment of the subject can be found here. It seems hardly relevant. And that while these very rich musical traditions offer interesting observations about 'microtonality'. Since in Indian Classical Music (ICM) a wide variety of scales are in use, in which the 6 mutable tones (fifth/Pa is basically fixed) can have very distinct and characteristic positions it would already qualify as 'microtonal'. But there is much more to it than just having a lot variant scales. To sum up some characteristics:
- tuning of string instruments is done to a level of microtonal precision. Indian string instruments have a sound particularly rich in harmonics, and tuning is done on a high resolution level of harmonic resonance. Even in tuning the four-string tanpura the 4th/Ma can have variant degrees for different ragas. Very often pure fifth relations can be found in the notes used: if the second tone/Re is particularly low, the flattened 6th is also in a very low position to pure-parallel (sound as a 3rd, 6th,12th harmonic of the lower tone. The more 5th-parallels there are in a scale, the more resonant and consonant it will be. Of course, other ragas exist in which this consonance is lacking, which is a significant way of expressing particular moods of anxiety.
- microtonal ornamentation can be found on different levels. One is 'timbre-modulation' and is available mostly to vocalists, the other is a continuous fluent, legato tonal movement, called 'meend'. Meend is any fluent movement from one pitch to an other - but don't think sleezy glissando's here - it is an exact movement between the fixed pitches and there is a very extensive vocabulary for it for every raga. To be more precise, as it is not generally found in recent western music, it is a very specific and controlled way of moving around between the notes. For easy comparison: it is exactly what a keyboard-instrument can not do - it can only render block-print. Compare that to Baroque handwriting with many elegant slurs and curls - a whealth of diversity opens up! Indian music is like a calligraphy of continuously modulated sound. Calligraphers and vocalists practice years and years on getting the shapes of their curls and slurs just right. Interestingly, a parallel that presents itself from Western culture is 'Gregorian Chant' as we know it from 10th century manuscripts which use a graphic system of neumes (sign of the hand) which also makes use of precisely shaped 'meends' comprising 2,3 or many notes.
If this kind of information is to be found anywhere, it should be here on WIKI. Says I, of course... what say you? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Martin spaink ( talk • contribs) 22:39, August 20, 2007 (UTC).
1/4 comma meantone is NOT identical with 31 equal, it only comes CLOSE. strictly speaking: it uses the interval 5/4, which 31 equal does NOT! huygens took 1/4 comma meantone as a starting point for his suggested 31 equal, but his mathematics are substantially different. we must go for precision in this article: my suggestion. Kmbemb 23:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
does anyone know the minimum difference in pitch able to be detected by a human? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.177.164.231 ( talk) 21:35, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
No. There are many tests, but they are tests, not real-life playing and listening situations, so the best anyone could honestly claim would be something like "within x cents in such and such tests". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank Zamjatin ( talk • contribs) 05:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, melodically, the smallest pitch diffrence a human can percieve is about 6 cents, although that is subject to change depending on other factors.
Harmonicly, no tests have ever been done, but it is deffinitley way lower than 6 cents.
I have found a diffrence of 0.01 hz to be un-noticable, but I don't know where the line is drawn exactly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.112.132 ( talk) 15:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
The graf
As Joel Mandelbaum has pointed out in his PhD thesis "Multiple Division Of the Octave and the Tonal Resources of the 19 Tone Temperament" (1960), scholarship done on the Montpellier Codex suggests that it records microtonal tunings, probably the Greek enharmonic. Thus the evidence appears to show that microtonal tunings survived and were commonly used late into the medieval period.
has two problems, IMO.
Best, -- Shlishke ( talk) 04:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
"Xenharmonic" is a related term, not an alternative definition of "microtonal". If there are any references (textbooks, dictionaries, peer-reviewed journals) supporting this idea, they need to be listed. Otherwise, all definitions of and speculations as to what is and what is not "xenharmonic" need to be in the "xeharmonic" wiki, not in the "microtonal" wiki.
In addition, microtonalities which are an essential part of various musical traditions around the world need to be mentioned, by someone qualified to do so. The Indian concept of "meend" is an example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank Zamjatin ( talk • contribs) 09:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
In answer to Jerome Kohl's question "Has any previous editor of this article actually *read* Aristoxenos", the answer is, at least one has read enough, and enough about, to know that this statement: "Of the tuning of ancient Greek music we have a comprehensive record, courtesy of Aristoxenos' surviving texts on music." needs to be removed.
The bit about ancient Greek music has now been stripped down to the basics that can be found in any dictionary or text on the subject. It needs to be expanded, but not in a "personal essay" manner. Wikipedia is not the place to continue the time-honored but nonetheless bogus tradition of justifying or otherwise shining a glamorous light on one's own theories by interpreting the scant hard evidence on ancient Greek music to taste in order to create an illusion of royal lineage.
Took out the spam in the Electronica section, as well as the request for a citation on the general comment about alternative tunings and electronica. The link to Jim Aikin's article I added should hopefully be enough (the statement as it now stands would hardly be challenged by anyone familiar with the field). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank Zamjatin ( talk • contribs) 11:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I put the secondary definition of "microtonal" back in, but without directly equating "microtonal" with "xenharmonic". Please see The New Grove 1st ed. ( ISBN 1-56159-174-2) vol.12 p. 279 on microtonal music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank Zamjatin ( talk • contribs) 09:53, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Editor Gwalla has asked that eight items on this page which have the hidden-text comments usual on Wikipedia (explaining the nature of needed missing references) be announced here. I was responsible for putting those eight calls for reference (as well as some others that seem self-evident), so I suppose it is my responsibility to comply with Gwalla's request. Please consider them announced.— Jerome Kohl ( talk) 21:50, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
The "Usage" section has been there a long time, without citations. Quite clearly a bit of "original research". It's not that I disagree with it, or don't think it could be a very nice section, but it is not appropriate to this page as it is. This is just a notification that if it's not referenced fairly soon it will be removed. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 12:15, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Tonraum30.11-14 1.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 15:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
The DMOZ search template, and by implication all DMOZ search links, is being considered for deletion because it violates WP:ELNO #9. Anyone interested in discussing the fate of Open Directory Project (DMOZ) search links is invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Dmoz2. Qazin ( talk) 05:59, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Guys, please keep discussions out of HTML comments. Use talkpages for that. HTML comments should only be used in very rare circumstances as rationales for certain pieces of information or markup, to ward off likely edit warring. There is almost never a need for paragraph-length comments. — Gwalla | Talk 17:41, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
The youtube video link once offered here is (1) not a reliable source unless the video can be traced to a reliable publisher Wikipedia:Reliable_source_examples#Are_IRC.2C_MySpace.2C_and_YouTube_reliable_sources.3F, and (2) the video does not verify either that TAP made the modifications to their instruments visible in the video, nor that their intention was to "explore unexpected soundtextures", nor that the bass guitar's musical scale is "changed".
SFBG: How do you prepare your bass?
PN: I have a dowel rod under the strings. I tune it to this non-standard range. You have this thing called A440 that you base your tuner on. We’re totally out of that range. For me, it’s very fulfilling to play this way because I can still get new life out of the same instrument. I can play it like a guitar, a saxophone, or a voice. That’s the funnest part of it, to go crazy. It’s a combination of letting your subconscious and condition lead the way and playing what you think sounds cool. For us, it’s trying to fit crazy sounds into a song format without traditional structure. 83.87.170.234 ( talk) 08:19, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me a significant gap that Arab music and maqam is only mention in 'See Also'. Not that I'm qualified to make the additions. Dlabtot ( talk) 05:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I like that this section is getting expanded, but it's definitely starting to fall under WP:NOTTEXTBOOK. BrutishBloodGod ( talk) 01:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
How, why, where? Hyacinth ( talk) 14:08, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Aside from the two topics mentioned briefly above (xenharmonic & Aristoxenos). What, why, where, and how does this article need to be cleaned up? Hyacinth ( talk) 19:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
In the lists of microtone composers, and indeed in this entire article, why is there no mention of John Corigliano? (ex. Symphony No. 1 and Chiaroscuro) Bradtwotrees ( talk) 06:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Proper references, please. No more personal essay stuff, please. I left some "personal essay" passages (Vincento for example) in because they can easily be referenced and shown to be sound statements. If this material is not properly referenced soon (and I cannot promise that I will have the time to do so), it must, by the standards of Wikipedia (not to mention fair intelligent discourse) be removed. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 12:27, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I agree that referenced material of Blackwood's should certainly be incorporated into the article, but I was unable to untangle it from the dubious material in which it was lodged. Hopefully I'll never be under the knife of surgeon so ruthless, now that you mention it... I trust that those with, or with access to, the Blackwood book will insert a clean and pointed paragraph about various equal divisions.
I was under the impression that the very purpose of the current construction of the reference list (I see you corrected my formatting) was to enable the presentation of reference material not necessarily found in the article, as well as to allow multiple references to a single book without creating a vast repetitive list. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 05:30, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Some of the material I sliced was mine, but, as yours was, it was worked into, or a rewriting of, pre-existing material which I felt had fundamental problems. Of course I won't be offended if you're ruthless, it's a quality article we're after. "Microtonalism" is a magnet for flat-earthers and those wielding Atlantean crystals, so to speak, and the mainstream typically has little to say on the subject, unfortunately tolerating bogosities as great as those perpetrated by kooks: see Taruskin's description of Partch's system as "unequally tempered". (!) Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 07:43, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Rather alarmingly, I'd often rather hear incompetent garage bands than excellent 12-tET piano sonatas these days, probably because of the inescapable "autotuned" 12-tET pop coming out of "every speaker everywhere all the time". At any rate, I think you're right that we should cite the essay-like quotes as quotes.
We also have problems of.... moral? dimensions. Barbour, for example, is a recognized authority, and his writing is scholarly. But, there is a Barbour essay (which I have somewhere, have to find the reference to give you) on temperament which is, viewed coldly, more than a little suggestive of a thinnly-disguised hysterical rant cursing all that dares to question the sanctity of 12-tET. And, surely I am not the only one harboring the suspicion that he spent little if any time actually working, by ear, with any of the various tunings he discusses. Although logic precludes the argument from authority, we must honestly concede that there is in reality more than a little of trust in authority in scholarship. So: hmmmmmm..... We also have those whose authority in the realm of microtonality is definitely recognized in the "mainstream", Carillo and Partch, the only avowed microtonalists, as far as I know, to be discussed in Taruskin's History of Everything According to Mr. T. (you know the volumes to which I refer). No suspicion of close-minded ignorance hiding behind good scholarship in these cases; these were practising microtonal musicians. Yet, as Taruskin so gleefully suggests in his entertainingly evil way, as composers these two are, by the standards of the Western art music tradition.... perhaps we should take this in private discussion. :-)
In sum, especially in this problematic field, we cannot help but to exercise a great deal of essaying and critical opinion of sources by simply including or excluding material. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 09:58, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes indeed. Do you think it's about time to remove the "cleanup" tag? As the article stands, it's not bad at all. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 11:43, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
Could you put in some kind of neutral "QED" statement to the effect "there are many equal divisions...", then put in the Blackwood quotes? Another thing missing is Bohlen-Pierce, but that's a strange one, because I can't think of any of the more or less younger generation I know who has studied composition with an electronic bent, or even just a good introduction to Pd, Max, etc., who hasn't heard of BP, yet I can't recall ever having coming across it in the more sombre tomes we like to use as references. Perhaps simply a link to the wiki page would be enough. Frank Zamjatin ( talk) 18:29, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
What kind of audio files would we like on the page? Hyacinth ( talk) 04:10, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
I find that the order, which apparently is in chronological birth order, to be illogical and confusing to read. None of these lists are really addressing when these people started "pioneering" or "composing" or "researching" microtonal music. Such a list, if so desired, would be possible to do albeit very tedious to put together. That would require substantial time in researching and then reordering the list. And then there would also be the sticky point, does one make a list by completion or publication date of the composition? If the intended information was to give a sense of when microtonality was pioneered, composed, or researched, it really fails. Just because a microtonalist was born earlier than someone else does not mean that that person should be earlier on the timeline. Makes no sense at all and does not follow good practice.
I propose that each of these three lists be re-ordered alphabetically according to last name. That would be more logical and understandable for those who are perusing these lists. Even the major composer dictionaries and encyclopedias (ex. Groves, New Harvard) by definition do not do a chronological listing but an alphabetical one. The lists in this topic should also so be listed. -- B0cean ( talk) 05:51, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
What qualifies Varèse as a "quarter-tone pioneer"? I can only recall a few bars in the original version of "Amériques", which he later deleted, and his electronic compositions (Déserts, Poème électronique). (But do they qualify as micro-tonal? They are not quarter-tone, that's for sure.) -- megA ( talk) 11:09, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
We are curious to know why the composer Myster Shadow-Sky who discovered starting in 1982 (with his piece Ourdission) a huge amount of nonoctave scales is periodically banned from the "Recent microtonal composers" list? His work shows him as a pioneer concerning the harmonic nonoctave scales and the new harmony resulting from his Nonoctave Scalar Field Theory. More than 250 shadow-sky scales available for free download for composers and musicians to create a new music sound. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.23.245.10 ( talk) 14:31, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
I noticed in this discussion a word 'microtonality', but in the article which this discussion relates to, there is no 'microtonality'. Instead I found there in the body of the article 'microtonalism', despite the article is categorized as 'microtonality'. From this mishmash arose my question: is 'microtonality' synonym for 'microtonalism'? Can someone explain what is 'microtonality' (and does it have something common with 'tonality') directly in the WP article? Olorulus ( talk) 18:23, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
A teacher of user Olorulus was Kholopov who invented the chimeric word микрохроматика (microchromatics), but nobody has ever called any microtone as микрохром (microсhrome). Therefore, along with the penetration to the Russian-language musicology the necessity to discuss microtones, naturally is used word микротоника (microtonicism) displacing Kholopov's absurd микрохроматика.
User Olorulus is hard working over censorship Russian language Wiki, advertising himself, Kholopov and prolonging life a dying микрохроматика, so his aim was to push into English Wiki article as many mentions of the stupid word as will be allowed here. -- 93.76.31.226 ( talk) 20:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
Alois Hába indeed used terms for other microintervals, but in the cited sources (shown with precise bibliographic data) he described specifically "čtvrttónové soustavě". Quarter-tone-system was seemingly prevalent for practical composition in the defined time and defined regions. Also, in several editions of the very popular in German-speaking area Riemann Musiklexikon until recent Brockhaus-Riemann (1995) there is only 'Vierteltonmusik' article (in which also other microtones are mentioned), but no 'Sechsteltonmusik', 'Zwölfteltonmusik' or whatever. If you recognize this, then please clarify, what do you see wrong with the citation for "čtvrttónové soustavě". For an evaluation of the view on Hába as 'quarter-tone-composer' that time the evidence from Lotte Kallenbach-Greller might be helpful:
Schließlich komme ich zum wichtigsten, weil konsequentesten Vertreter der Vierteltonmusik, der es sich zur Aufgabe gestellt hat, nur in Vierteltönen zu komponieren: Alois Hába. Er lebt in Prag, leitet dort eine Kompositionsklasse für Vierteltonmusik und ist, wenn mir die Parallele noch einmal erlaubt sein mag, der Vicentino unserer Zeit, nur mit dem Unterschied... usw.
Lotte Kallenbach-Greller, Die historischen Grundlagen der Vierteltöne // Archiv für Musikwissenschaft 8 (1927), S.484.
Olorulus ( talk) 09:20, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Dear colleague, you changed
Microtonal music can also refer to music which uses intervals not found in the Western system of twelve equal intervals to the octave.
to
Microtonal music also includes music using intervals not found in the customary Western system of twelve equal intervals per octave
I consider this view 'europocentric'. The concept of 'microtonal inflexions' from 12ET takes for granted this temperament and using reverse extrapolation explains traditional Eastern scales as 'microtonal' deviations from 12ET which is evidently absurd. The classical example is a so called 'neutral third' which is explained as a 'microtonal inflexion' from both 'European' thirds while a scale which contains the mentioned 'neutral third' is used in Oriental traditions for centuries and has nothing to do with either polyphony (which was the cause of temperament in Europe) or 'microchromatic' genus (which you call 'microtonality'). My point, it is better to leave a modal and encyclopedic statement like 'the expression "microtonal music" can refer to microtonal inflexions... (or 'with "microtonal music" are also described intervals in non-Western early traditions which slightly deviate from the European 12ET modern tuning'). Please consider it. Olorulus ( talk) 07:30, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Microtonal music or microtonality is the music with microtones (also called 'microintervals') used as ornamental inflexions of basically diatonic/chromatic scales or substantial elements of specifically microtonal scales. Some scholars also call 'microtonal' music with intervals which deviate from a semitone of the Western 12-tone equal temperament. Olorulus ( talk) 10:09, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
I feel like this page is extremely Eurocentric and leaves out the long history of Indian tradition which has been using microtones for far longer. This page needs a major rewrite, or at least, a huge addition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.162.186.255 ( talk) 05:36, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi there, just to say I've proposed a project Microtonal Music, Tuning, Temperaments and Scales .
It's scope would include everything in the now inactive Wikipedia:WikiProject Tunings, Temperaments, and_Scales ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) project,. But it adds "Microtonal Music" to the title. This makes it broader in scope, for instance to include microtonal compositions and composition technique, microtonal chords, microtonal composers, microtonal organizations, microtonal regional and national music, etc etc. The idea is that as a larger project we would get more participation.
If you support the idea please add your name to the #Support section, or if you have any thoughts on it that you want to share, do add your voice to its Discussion section. Thanks! Robert Walker ( talk) 23:48, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
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