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Michelle Kwan is not 'one of the most decorated U.S. Figure Skaters in U.S. history. She is "the most decorated figure skater in U.S. history." Check out the U.S. Figure Skating Association's website: http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=2267 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.21.164.80 ( talk) 08:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
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For the RECORD, the 1994 nat. title was stripped from Harding. You don't win by default. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pelladon ( talk • contribs) 08:16, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
She is originally from Torrance, California. And those quotes belong in Wikiquote, with one of those little boxes that says, "Wikiquote has a collection of quotes from or about...", unless the quote can be worked into the article somehow.-- Rockero 22:04, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
I've added in the part where Michelle Kwan is a guest in the simpsons in the Trivia Section and added a picture. Laska 04:18, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
sounds like it was written by her PR guy.
too many comparisons intended to put her in the best light. encyclopedias should never provide evaluative comparisons of facts. the reader should evaluate and compare on his own, to form his own point of view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.148.201 ( talk) 06:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
The categories listed her as Category:Figure skaters at the 2006 Winter Olympics but not 1994. I added 1994, someone took it right back out. Now I'm taking out 2006. She was at both Olympics, 1994 and 2006. If it was felt that she does not belong in the 1994 cat — presumably because she didn't actually compete — then she does not belong in the 2006 cat. Anything else is inconsistent. (My own opinion, FWIW, is that she was at both.) Bill 19:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
You can only claim Kwan to be "one" of the most decoreated skaters in U.S skating history because of the notable missing Olympic gold medals that are missing from her resume. Carol Heiss won two Olympic medals one of these 1960 was a gold medal. Also, add Carol's 5 world titles. I also believe Dick Button won two Olympic gold medals and about 4 world titles. Let's not forget 2 world titles dorothy Hamil and Olympic gold, Peggy Flemming 4 world titles, Olympic gold. Kristi Yamaguchi, 2 Olympic golds, 3 world titles 2 of them gold medals, Kristi was a 4 time national champion, one of them for pair skating. A well rounded champion. Brian Boitano 2 world titles Olympic gold, Scott Hamiltion 4 world titles Olympic silver and Olympic gold. There are others I can't name but many skaters would love to have these careers over and above Michelle kwan's. Olympic gold is the grand prize in the career of every figure skater. It is the ultimate standard of skating excellence. This medal is noticeably missing from Kwan's resume. So you cannot claim that she alone is the "greatest" U.S skater of all time is reaching. Granted she is quite accomplished but America has produced a lot of great champion. So to say Kwan is the "greatest" missing the Olympic gold medals is not a realistic assessment of her career nor is it respectful of the achievements in U.S skating history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.136.207 ( talk) 15:37, February 21, 2009 (UTC)
This could use some tone cleanup. Parts of it read like a Michelle Kwan fansite. Some of the competition description could be pared down, too. -- F a ng Aili talk 20:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Is there anything that would prevent this from being a Good article? -- Fang Aili talk 15:29, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I judged this article on 7 criteria:
Man, so much work has gone into the competitive scores section, it hurts to fail this. But I am. Stable is a fail- there's about 30-40 edits a day going on now, and there's been at least one edit war in the last day alone. Broad is a fail because there's almost no effort given to her personal biography- I had to go to the trivia section to find out what college she went to. And speaking of Trivia sections- no. A bulleted list of trivia is a big no-no. Pull some stuff out to biography, make a section for appearances in tv shows and the like. And finally, references fail because 9 is far too few for an article like this. Push for 20 or so, focusing on referencing her career to start with. While this article fails, it does however get the coveted ("cough") PresN stamp of approval- clean this up and message me on my talk page, and I'll immediately re-examine it, without having to go thorugh GAC again. -- PresN 04:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
I've compiled the trivia into paragraphs. The prose and content placement isn't perfect but I just wanted to get that ugly "misc trivia" section gone. I've completely removed some bits that seemed way too specialized or just non-encyclopedic. -- Fang Aili talk 23:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
This section should be removed or converted into meaningful paragraphs. Right now it's a bunch of fanspeak with no context. -- Fang Aili talk 15:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
How would people feel about replacing the numerous season breakdown tables with a general table like the one at Irina Slutskaya? This would give the reader a simpler breakdown of information without getting into details like who choreographed her programs. The season breakdowns could be moved to a separate article titled Michelle Kwan competitive record or something like that. Thoughts? -- Fang Aili talk 18:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that it would look much better if the results on the side of the page read "gold," "silver," and "bronze," instead of 1st place, 2nd place, and 3rd place. Every other Olympian has the color of the medal, not 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, which, in my opinion, makes it seem less important. It also makes it seem less important that all NINE of her national gold medals are scrunched up in one little box. why can't they have their own separate "gold" medal rows? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.197 ( talk • contribs)
I don't agree, but oh well. I don't have to come to wikipedia to learn about Michelle, anyway. Skatekwan6 22:33, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm back! As per the failed criteria from last time:
Result: Pass! Good job, everyone. -- PresN 18:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what the problem is here regarding the intro section. The 2 sources I put after "greatest figure skater.." support that statement. Only the one Christian Science Monitor source [1] supports the assertion that she's mostly known for her failure to win Olympic gold. The Asian Media Watch source specifically says "regarded as one of the greatest figure skaters of all time" [2]. -- Fang Aili talk 13:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
The article is getting extremely fat. And so many people have put in so much work to it. How can we streamline the article further. Should we create stubs for it to transfer some of the information? Like her competitive records. Should the Competitive Biography section be moved to a different article altogether and then just leave a seasonal summary in the competitive biography?
If we were to portion out the article, what should be left in the main article?
How would these changes affect the article's rating as a GA?
Juaquino 16:06, 24 December 2006
Okay guys, there's too much information and there's this article. Do we really need to know what Michelle Kwan's high school GPA is? It sounds like a gang of stalkers has written this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CardinalWraith ( talk • contribs) 05:03, March 21, 2006 (UTC)
Skating may have changed since Henie's day but this is not the skater's fault. You compete under the rules which govern your sport. Just because Henie did a different kind of skating does not weaken or lessen her achievements as you are trying to argue. I can say with confidence today's skaters would not be able to compete the figures. A skater works with the training of her time. Skaters now are doing harder tricks than Michelle kwan who could not continue under these new rules. Does this fact make all of her titles and achievements unimportnant? When 70 years pass will it be fair for any skater to say that Kwan is not a real champion because the skills she competed will be considered easy? No of course not. Skating during the late end of this 21st century will be doing things unheard of today. Greatness is about excelling beyond the set standards to create another level of excellence. Dominance is important, so too is impact. Did Henie push the level of competition in her day? Yes she did the axel, considered a man's jump, she also invented the first back spiral another technical innovation. Artistically she changed choreography, added dance steps, used lighting to highlight performances, studied with ballet dancers, designed, costumes, her own sets, routines, and shows. She was extremely competitive and disciplined. Henie pairs skated too. What men's jump's did Kwan dare to introduce? What new skills did she invent? What improvements or innovations did she bring to the artistic side of skating? This is applying the standard which Henie set. Skating clean shows strenth of mind. Clean skating is a requirement of showing all the skills. Mastery of every skill artistic and technical is how excellence in skating is measured. A champion must be an all around champion capable of mastering most all skills, the more complex the better. What impact did kwan's skating make beyond the skating world? Did she create large international followings of paying audiencess with her skating? Henie was a world phenomenon her skating took the world by storm. Many nationalites and ethinicities enjoyed her skating and went to her shows. She was box office around the world. While kwan's impact was limited only to America where many of her public appearances never filled stadiums were never sold out or required police escorts to contain the rioting mobs, screaming fainting fans. Is Michelle Kwan also number one at the movie box office? Henie was the top box office attraction during her movie career which includes ten films. At her peak Sonja was Henie was like a mega rock star and movie star by todays standards. This was her impact on the culture. Huge, massive cultural icon. NO SKATER has ever come close to this kind of popular appeal. I don't believe any skater or athlete ever will. She was the most successful skater and athlete of the 20th century. People talk about Witt who had a great competitive career with little cultural impact and a sparse fan following. People talk about Oksana Baiul whose career was nothing but a blink. She brought a new spin and style. Her impact limited to the U.S. It lasted only about 3 years at the U.S skating box office as a figure of failure and ridicule. Pathetic. I think Kwan is a wonderful skater and a lovely person. But this is my opionion it has nothing to do with the record of achievement. As for "greatness" it has a defined standard in skating. Excellence in every catagory of career pro and amatuer. Sonja Henie set a very high standard. She was first, the best in every catagory of everything she did. The highest grossing ice shows. Her name carried these shows alone. Every other skater who attempted this has failed needing the help of other big name skaters on the marquee. Henie was the queen of products endorsement whatever she endorsed the public brought. She conquered every arena this is what I mean when I talk about greatness and cultural impact. Henie was the greatest skater of the ages. Until someone in the next century tops her she remains the all time champion of excellence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.136.207 ( talk • contribs) 16:38, February 21, 2009 (UTC)
I'ts important to note how in popular culture she has been constantly linked to Dan Marino - Both undeniable masters of their trade - Both failing to reach the pinacle of success. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.106.21 ( talk) 23:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I found this [3]. Does anyone agree that they look remarkably similiar? Whom took from whom? Scarian Talk 20:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I personally much preferred when there was one row for gold medals, one row for silver, and one row for bronze. Expanding it into one row for each individual medal is a little bit over the top, in my opinion. Any thoughts? theProject 16:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
All the other figure skaters with Olympic Medals have a special box above their photos with their Olympic Records. Is there any reason Michelle's are down in with the National and World records? I think we should strive to conform with the general template. MaKaM 01:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
This article has several major problems that need to be addressed to remain GA.
1. Large parts of the article lack sources.
2. The Introduction does not conform to WP:Lead. It needs to be longer, about twice as long
3. There are a few short sections and headings that need to be consolidated.
I'll allow a few days for comments and improvements before delisting. User:calbear22 ( talk) 09:37, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
The statement that "michelle is the best skater ever" is subjective and not FACT. Is Michelle Kwan the best skater ever based upon competitve record? No. Skaters like Sonja Henie, Katarina Witt, Soujke Dykstra & Ulrich Salchow have won more world, European and Olympic medals and titles and have longer competitive careers. It can also be argued that skaters who've won the Olympic gold medals (the highest prize in the "sport" of figureskating) are also more accomplished than Michelle Kwan. It makes no difference if their careers were shorter. Achievement can inded be measure by excellence and "quality" of opponents.
Fact: Kwan enjoyed opportunites unavailable to past Olympic champions owing to the rules made to favor her by the ISU allowing her to earn top $$ as a pro while still competing as an amatuer. Past Olympians had to pay the bills and were banned from world & Olympic competition once they went pro to pay the bills. This is the politics which prevented any chance for "real competition" and longevity in the sport for those who weren't born wealthy. Skaters who achieved more longevity and titles in the sport also include pairs skaters,this list will include, skaters like Irina Rodnina,Torvil & Dean,Gordeeva & Grinkov etc. Nobody can claim Michelle Kwan to be the "greatest skater ever." It is a fallacy. As an entertainer Kwan has made less impact on skating than the "much maligned" and "often discredited" Oksana Baiul. Who for a period of 6 years was the top box office attraction in skating.
Furthermore Kwan as an entertainment celebrity has had zero impact on figureskating. It was during the years she was on top that interest in skating shows, exhibitions and skating as entertainment began to drop to its lowest point ever at the box office and in television ratings. This is no coincidence, figureskating is an individual sport built on "stars". Outside of America Kwan aroused no box-office appeal despite, enjoying a juggernaut of publicity and promotion world wide for a decade. Yet with her as "the face of figureskating rinks were closing and interest in the sport and attendance at shows dwindled. She generated no demand for her appearances and performances around the world. Kwan left European and Asian audiences cold. She was never a leading box office draw even in the North American skating world this achievement belongs to the "much maligned" and "often discredited" Oksana Baiul.
Michelle Kwan Never was a champion at the paying box office as an entertainment attraction. Her name on the marquee will not generate big ratings and $$$. Kwan has been a parasite living off the misfortune of others. No U.S champions have been no able to excel at the skating/entertainment box office. Sonja Henie is the greatest skater ever based upon achievemnet in both sport, entertainment celebrity and social impact. The attention she brought to the sport along with the innovations she intoduced are unmatched and will remain so. What innovations has Kwan introduced? None. She simply pirates the skills and movements of other skaters. This is her so-called artistry? Artistically this is parasitism at its worst. Xenophobia in US skating is a cancer which is in denial of the sports history. Sonja Henie is the standard of success & achievement by which all other figureskaters will be measured. No other skater in history has contributed more to, or made a greater impact in figureskating nor have other added more the popularity of the winter Olympic movement. Henie is the reason for the present day success of both the winter Olympics and the modern ice shows. Get the facts straight. Try getting your facts from an "international source" the IOC, and ISU museums will prove invaluable. Try also reading "Wings On My Feet" Henie's biography along with Kwan's the drive & ambition between these two are worlds apart. Henie would have eaten Kwan alive. No contest. Try conducting your research at the International figureskating hall of fame. Getting a bigger perspective beyond the narrow, biased, xenophobic view of the United States FigureSkating community will prove very eye-opening. Kwan's place in the sport must be measured with respect to all those who came before her and those at present, objectively without malice without prejudice.
Skating is a very old and a very "international sport" biased sources from the u.s skating community too often deliberately berate, discredit and malign the contributions of non American skating champions in figureskating. The best must be acknowledged. Michelle kwan is mediocre. Her merit & achivements as a skater & entertainer have often been overrated by biased supporters and crazed fans. A Hype-machine created by the media surrounds and distorts the worth of her achievements. She will face time the ultimate test. I estimate that Kwan will fade in time.
Unlike Henie many of Kwan's titles were earned while "falling on her butt." In a "judging sport" the true test, the best test of excellence is "skating clean" which means not making overt mistakes. Henie had the distinction of never falling during any competition. Today, a skater's power comes from the wealth of her country and sponsors---not her skating or physical body. Contrast her to Sonja Henie who won all of her titles "skating clean" and "technically challenging programs like, adding jumps like the single axle jumps reserved only for men. The arguments which state Henie's generation did easier elements does not hold up. All skating is relative. Today's skaters don't have the stamina required to perform outdoors in the cold, exposed to elements of snow, rain,sleet and extreme cold as past generations. They also cannot master the concentration required to execute the 80 figures skating once demanded.
Even today Henies power and strength a spinner would plough kwan and every other competitor through the ice by the sheer force of torque she generated. Her speed was exponentially more than Kwan covering far more rink than today's skaters. It takes strengh,endurance,stamina real physical power to move around a rink the way henie skated. There were no slow sections to rest in her skating routines. As an entertainer audiences adored her for decades. Mobs became unruly wanting a glimpse of her at public appearances. Riots brokeout, she had a police escort for all public appearances during her Olympic days. This is proof the Olympics are the sports biggest stage--not the pros(entertainment). Sold out world wide engagements & box-office fame these are the measure of a "great" pro career as an entertainer. Pro skating is about being an entertainer. Henie was top of the pack for 4 decades as a performer, movie star and entertainer. She has no peer. But I can think of a lot of other female skaters who have made more impact than Michelle Kwan. She is nothing special —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.83.220.141 (talk) 19:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
This is a terrible written biography. She is one of the greatest female figure skaters of all time and arguably the best. I don't know who wrote this article but it sounds like they hate her. I read the last guys comment about the 1st para being written by a pr guy .... you should take a look at tara lipinski's page, it's full of self-promotion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.21.175.225 ( talk) 09:48, February 12, 2006 (UTC)
THis is supposed to be a nuetral article not to promote her but to provide some objectivity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juaquino ( talk • contribs) 04:56, March 15, 2006 (UTC)
huh? how do you get the tone that they hate her? And what sin did she commit??! Everyone sins! She's no exception if she did! 69.235.239.244 ( talk) 20:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
As someone who knows nothing about skating, it is this reporting made me know of this outstanding skater almost 10 years ago. The report is a historical fact and is relevant to that competition and Michelle. Actually the news headline made such a strong impression on me that I knew something was amiss when I first came across this entry few days ago (i.e. before my addition of this info). I do not quite understand by what criteria this bit of info deem inappropriate... I don't suppose it is still controversial given it happened such a long time ago?! Aka100 ( talk) 12:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
What is meant by "Cantonese IPA: Gwaan Wingsaan"? Probably Cantonese form or Cantonese spelling. IPA is a special phonetic alphabet using signs like these: ɸ ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ ʝ ɣ ɲ ŋ ɵ ɤ ə ɚ ɛ ɜ ɝ ʌ ɔ ɐ ɶ ɑ ɒ. Swedish Wikipedia user Wikimiki, 16:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.236.184.81 ( talk)
This article should be incorporated into the article: http://www.du.edu/today/stories/2009/06/2009-06-04kwan.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.122.185.212 ( talk) 15:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I look up to her because she is not just a grate artist but an even greater Skater.
If you are looking for a role motel ice skater then don't do any thing until you see her skate because you mite of found her right here.
Michelle Kwan just as soon as her toe pick touches the ice she lights up and right when she jumps shes ready to land it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.160.138.17 ( talk) 00:01, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Just a reminder that this is an encyclopedia, not a Michelle Kwan fan site. Some particular things that are not appropriate to include in this article are:
I think the article already makes it clear that Kwan is a very prominent, accomplished, and popular athlete, and it doesn't need to include specific examples of fannishness to make the point. Dr.frog 03:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning that she also has a cameo as herself in the 2010 remake of Ice Castles? 66.156.90.250 ( talk) 02:03, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
As far as I know, Kwan doesn't use her Chinese name, so it seems just as irrelevant to an article in English as it would be to include a Cyrillic transliteration of her name. Dr.frog 19:12, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Could some of the supporters of including her Chinese name please provide proof that it is in fact one of her given names. The fact that she is ethnically Chinese does not mean it should be included if it was not offically given or assumed by her. Every famous figure is given a Chinese name when reported about in the Chinese press, that doesn't mean it should be in their wikipedia entry. 67.39.179.156 07:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't matter what name Chinese people use for her. But what is the reason for including her Chinese name in non-Chinese Wikipedias? Do we include Hebrew names of Jewish-Americans in their Wikipedia articles? Why must the ancestry of Asian-Americans deserve special emphasis? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.151.135.10 ( talk) 01:03, January 22, 2007 (UTC)
I'm complete agree with Kowloonese here. I'm a bilingual in chinese and english. I wouldn't know who Matteo Ricci is until I saw his chinese name included in his page on en.wikipedia.org. Now I know he was the one that I had read about in chinese history. Given the globalized the env and infomation explosion, more and more ppl speak multiple languages. I think its a good idea to include both given names at main info pages. Make it easy for ppl researching on cross reference in multi language mediase. With busy life nowadays no many ppl have patiantes go through trivial pages. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
68.37.198.146 (
talk)
19:18, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
How many English sources do we have that show Kwan identifying herself using this as a given name (not just as a middle name)? This is certainly not notable in the English Wikipedia. 174.252.23.87 ( talk) 11:55, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I was looking through the links at the bottom and found that both #3 and #5 do not correspond to a website. As they were accessed in 2006, they probably need to be corrected and modified. #7, #8, and #9 lead directly to the Harris Interactive homepage and not the PDF that it should link to. Again, this is probably because it has been a long time since it was added to the page. Additionally, I find the Personal Life section is in need of information. It only talks about her wedding so either the section needs to be renamed or more updated information should be added. Epchdc ( talk) 22:07, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
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She was on an episode of season 4 of Queer Eye (a netflix Show), where she cameoed. Thought it might be worth a mention. — Insertcleverphrasehere( or here)( or here)( or here) 21:53, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
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Michelle Kwan is not 'one of the most decorated U.S. Figure Skaters in U.S. history. She is "the most decorated figure skater in U.S. history." Check out the U.S. Figure Skating Association's website: http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=2267 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.21.164.80 ( talk) 08:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
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For the RECORD, the 1994 nat. title was stripped from Harding. You don't win by default. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pelladon ( talk • contribs) 08:16, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
She is originally from Torrance, California. And those quotes belong in Wikiquote, with one of those little boxes that says, "Wikiquote has a collection of quotes from or about...", unless the quote can be worked into the article somehow.-- Rockero 22:04, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
I've added in the part where Michelle Kwan is a guest in the simpsons in the Trivia Section and added a picture. Laska 04:18, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
sounds like it was written by her PR guy.
too many comparisons intended to put her in the best light. encyclopedias should never provide evaluative comparisons of facts. the reader should evaluate and compare on his own, to form his own point of view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.148.201 ( talk) 06:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
The categories listed her as Category:Figure skaters at the 2006 Winter Olympics but not 1994. I added 1994, someone took it right back out. Now I'm taking out 2006. She was at both Olympics, 1994 and 2006. If it was felt that she does not belong in the 1994 cat — presumably because she didn't actually compete — then she does not belong in the 2006 cat. Anything else is inconsistent. (My own opinion, FWIW, is that she was at both.) Bill 19:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
You can only claim Kwan to be "one" of the most decoreated skaters in U.S skating history because of the notable missing Olympic gold medals that are missing from her resume. Carol Heiss won two Olympic medals one of these 1960 was a gold medal. Also, add Carol's 5 world titles. I also believe Dick Button won two Olympic gold medals and about 4 world titles. Let's not forget 2 world titles dorothy Hamil and Olympic gold, Peggy Flemming 4 world titles, Olympic gold. Kristi Yamaguchi, 2 Olympic golds, 3 world titles 2 of them gold medals, Kristi was a 4 time national champion, one of them for pair skating. A well rounded champion. Brian Boitano 2 world titles Olympic gold, Scott Hamiltion 4 world titles Olympic silver and Olympic gold. There are others I can't name but many skaters would love to have these careers over and above Michelle kwan's. Olympic gold is the grand prize in the career of every figure skater. It is the ultimate standard of skating excellence. This medal is noticeably missing from Kwan's resume. So you cannot claim that she alone is the "greatest" U.S skater of all time is reaching. Granted she is quite accomplished but America has produced a lot of great champion. So to say Kwan is the "greatest" missing the Olympic gold medals is not a realistic assessment of her career nor is it respectful of the achievements in U.S skating history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.136.207 ( talk) 15:37, February 21, 2009 (UTC)
This could use some tone cleanup. Parts of it read like a Michelle Kwan fansite. Some of the competition description could be pared down, too. -- F a ng Aili talk 20:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Is there anything that would prevent this from being a Good article? -- Fang Aili talk 15:29, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I judged this article on 7 criteria:
Man, so much work has gone into the competitive scores section, it hurts to fail this. But I am. Stable is a fail- there's about 30-40 edits a day going on now, and there's been at least one edit war in the last day alone. Broad is a fail because there's almost no effort given to her personal biography- I had to go to the trivia section to find out what college she went to. And speaking of Trivia sections- no. A bulleted list of trivia is a big no-no. Pull some stuff out to biography, make a section for appearances in tv shows and the like. And finally, references fail because 9 is far too few for an article like this. Push for 20 or so, focusing on referencing her career to start with. While this article fails, it does however get the coveted ("cough") PresN stamp of approval- clean this up and message me on my talk page, and I'll immediately re-examine it, without having to go thorugh GAC again. -- PresN 04:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
I've compiled the trivia into paragraphs. The prose and content placement isn't perfect but I just wanted to get that ugly "misc trivia" section gone. I've completely removed some bits that seemed way too specialized or just non-encyclopedic. -- Fang Aili talk 23:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
This section should be removed or converted into meaningful paragraphs. Right now it's a bunch of fanspeak with no context. -- Fang Aili talk 15:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
How would people feel about replacing the numerous season breakdown tables with a general table like the one at Irina Slutskaya? This would give the reader a simpler breakdown of information without getting into details like who choreographed her programs. The season breakdowns could be moved to a separate article titled Michelle Kwan competitive record or something like that. Thoughts? -- Fang Aili talk 18:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that it would look much better if the results on the side of the page read "gold," "silver," and "bronze," instead of 1st place, 2nd place, and 3rd place. Every other Olympian has the color of the medal, not 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, which, in my opinion, makes it seem less important. It also makes it seem less important that all NINE of her national gold medals are scrunched up in one little box. why can't they have their own separate "gold" medal rows? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.197 ( talk • contribs)
I don't agree, but oh well. I don't have to come to wikipedia to learn about Michelle, anyway. Skatekwan6 22:33, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm back! As per the failed criteria from last time:
Result: Pass! Good job, everyone. -- PresN 18:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what the problem is here regarding the intro section. The 2 sources I put after "greatest figure skater.." support that statement. Only the one Christian Science Monitor source [1] supports the assertion that she's mostly known for her failure to win Olympic gold. The Asian Media Watch source specifically says "regarded as one of the greatest figure skaters of all time" [2]. -- Fang Aili talk 13:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
The article is getting extremely fat. And so many people have put in so much work to it. How can we streamline the article further. Should we create stubs for it to transfer some of the information? Like her competitive records. Should the Competitive Biography section be moved to a different article altogether and then just leave a seasonal summary in the competitive biography?
If we were to portion out the article, what should be left in the main article?
How would these changes affect the article's rating as a GA?
Juaquino 16:06, 24 December 2006
Okay guys, there's too much information and there's this article. Do we really need to know what Michelle Kwan's high school GPA is? It sounds like a gang of stalkers has written this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CardinalWraith ( talk • contribs) 05:03, March 21, 2006 (UTC)
Skating may have changed since Henie's day but this is not the skater's fault. You compete under the rules which govern your sport. Just because Henie did a different kind of skating does not weaken or lessen her achievements as you are trying to argue. I can say with confidence today's skaters would not be able to compete the figures. A skater works with the training of her time. Skaters now are doing harder tricks than Michelle kwan who could not continue under these new rules. Does this fact make all of her titles and achievements unimportnant? When 70 years pass will it be fair for any skater to say that Kwan is not a real champion because the skills she competed will be considered easy? No of course not. Skating during the late end of this 21st century will be doing things unheard of today. Greatness is about excelling beyond the set standards to create another level of excellence. Dominance is important, so too is impact. Did Henie push the level of competition in her day? Yes she did the axel, considered a man's jump, she also invented the first back spiral another technical innovation. Artistically she changed choreography, added dance steps, used lighting to highlight performances, studied with ballet dancers, designed, costumes, her own sets, routines, and shows. She was extremely competitive and disciplined. Henie pairs skated too. What men's jump's did Kwan dare to introduce? What new skills did she invent? What improvements or innovations did she bring to the artistic side of skating? This is applying the standard which Henie set. Skating clean shows strenth of mind. Clean skating is a requirement of showing all the skills. Mastery of every skill artistic and technical is how excellence in skating is measured. A champion must be an all around champion capable of mastering most all skills, the more complex the better. What impact did kwan's skating make beyond the skating world? Did she create large international followings of paying audiencess with her skating? Henie was a world phenomenon her skating took the world by storm. Many nationalites and ethinicities enjoyed her skating and went to her shows. She was box office around the world. While kwan's impact was limited only to America where many of her public appearances never filled stadiums were never sold out or required police escorts to contain the rioting mobs, screaming fainting fans. Is Michelle Kwan also number one at the movie box office? Henie was the top box office attraction during her movie career which includes ten films. At her peak Sonja was Henie was like a mega rock star and movie star by todays standards. This was her impact on the culture. Huge, massive cultural icon. NO SKATER has ever come close to this kind of popular appeal. I don't believe any skater or athlete ever will. She was the most successful skater and athlete of the 20th century. People talk about Witt who had a great competitive career with little cultural impact and a sparse fan following. People talk about Oksana Baiul whose career was nothing but a blink. She brought a new spin and style. Her impact limited to the U.S. It lasted only about 3 years at the U.S skating box office as a figure of failure and ridicule. Pathetic. I think Kwan is a wonderful skater and a lovely person. But this is my opionion it has nothing to do with the record of achievement. As for "greatness" it has a defined standard in skating. Excellence in every catagory of career pro and amatuer. Sonja Henie set a very high standard. She was first, the best in every catagory of everything she did. The highest grossing ice shows. Her name carried these shows alone. Every other skater who attempted this has failed needing the help of other big name skaters on the marquee. Henie was the queen of products endorsement whatever she endorsed the public brought. She conquered every arena this is what I mean when I talk about greatness and cultural impact. Henie was the greatest skater of the ages. Until someone in the next century tops her she remains the all time champion of excellence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.136.207 ( talk • contribs) 16:38, February 21, 2009 (UTC)
I'ts important to note how in popular culture she has been constantly linked to Dan Marino - Both undeniable masters of their trade - Both failing to reach the pinacle of success. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.106.21 ( talk) 23:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I found this [3]. Does anyone agree that they look remarkably similiar? Whom took from whom? Scarian Talk 20:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I personally much preferred when there was one row for gold medals, one row for silver, and one row for bronze. Expanding it into one row for each individual medal is a little bit over the top, in my opinion. Any thoughts? theProject 16:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
All the other figure skaters with Olympic Medals have a special box above their photos with their Olympic Records. Is there any reason Michelle's are down in with the National and World records? I think we should strive to conform with the general template. MaKaM 01:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
This article has several major problems that need to be addressed to remain GA.
1. Large parts of the article lack sources.
2. The Introduction does not conform to WP:Lead. It needs to be longer, about twice as long
3. There are a few short sections and headings that need to be consolidated.
I'll allow a few days for comments and improvements before delisting. User:calbear22 ( talk) 09:37, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
The statement that "michelle is the best skater ever" is subjective and not FACT. Is Michelle Kwan the best skater ever based upon competitve record? No. Skaters like Sonja Henie, Katarina Witt, Soujke Dykstra & Ulrich Salchow have won more world, European and Olympic medals and titles and have longer competitive careers. It can also be argued that skaters who've won the Olympic gold medals (the highest prize in the "sport" of figureskating) are also more accomplished than Michelle Kwan. It makes no difference if their careers were shorter. Achievement can inded be measure by excellence and "quality" of opponents.
Fact: Kwan enjoyed opportunites unavailable to past Olympic champions owing to the rules made to favor her by the ISU allowing her to earn top $$ as a pro while still competing as an amatuer. Past Olympians had to pay the bills and were banned from world & Olympic competition once they went pro to pay the bills. This is the politics which prevented any chance for "real competition" and longevity in the sport for those who weren't born wealthy. Skaters who achieved more longevity and titles in the sport also include pairs skaters,this list will include, skaters like Irina Rodnina,Torvil & Dean,Gordeeva & Grinkov etc. Nobody can claim Michelle Kwan to be the "greatest skater ever." It is a fallacy. As an entertainer Kwan has made less impact on skating than the "much maligned" and "often discredited" Oksana Baiul. Who for a period of 6 years was the top box office attraction in skating.
Furthermore Kwan as an entertainment celebrity has had zero impact on figureskating. It was during the years she was on top that interest in skating shows, exhibitions and skating as entertainment began to drop to its lowest point ever at the box office and in television ratings. This is no coincidence, figureskating is an individual sport built on "stars". Outside of America Kwan aroused no box-office appeal despite, enjoying a juggernaut of publicity and promotion world wide for a decade. Yet with her as "the face of figureskating rinks were closing and interest in the sport and attendance at shows dwindled. She generated no demand for her appearances and performances around the world. Kwan left European and Asian audiences cold. She was never a leading box office draw even in the North American skating world this achievement belongs to the "much maligned" and "often discredited" Oksana Baiul.
Michelle Kwan Never was a champion at the paying box office as an entertainment attraction. Her name on the marquee will not generate big ratings and $$$. Kwan has been a parasite living off the misfortune of others. No U.S champions have been no able to excel at the skating/entertainment box office. Sonja Henie is the greatest skater ever based upon achievemnet in both sport, entertainment celebrity and social impact. The attention she brought to the sport along with the innovations she intoduced are unmatched and will remain so. What innovations has Kwan introduced? None. She simply pirates the skills and movements of other skaters. This is her so-called artistry? Artistically this is parasitism at its worst. Xenophobia in US skating is a cancer which is in denial of the sports history. Sonja Henie is the standard of success & achievement by which all other figureskaters will be measured. No other skater in history has contributed more to, or made a greater impact in figureskating nor have other added more the popularity of the winter Olympic movement. Henie is the reason for the present day success of both the winter Olympics and the modern ice shows. Get the facts straight. Try getting your facts from an "international source" the IOC, and ISU museums will prove invaluable. Try also reading "Wings On My Feet" Henie's biography along with Kwan's the drive & ambition between these two are worlds apart. Henie would have eaten Kwan alive. No contest. Try conducting your research at the International figureskating hall of fame. Getting a bigger perspective beyond the narrow, biased, xenophobic view of the United States FigureSkating community will prove very eye-opening. Kwan's place in the sport must be measured with respect to all those who came before her and those at present, objectively without malice without prejudice.
Skating is a very old and a very "international sport" biased sources from the u.s skating community too often deliberately berate, discredit and malign the contributions of non American skating champions in figureskating. The best must be acknowledged. Michelle kwan is mediocre. Her merit & achivements as a skater & entertainer have often been overrated by biased supporters and crazed fans. A Hype-machine created by the media surrounds and distorts the worth of her achievements. She will face time the ultimate test. I estimate that Kwan will fade in time.
Unlike Henie many of Kwan's titles were earned while "falling on her butt." In a "judging sport" the true test, the best test of excellence is "skating clean" which means not making overt mistakes. Henie had the distinction of never falling during any competition. Today, a skater's power comes from the wealth of her country and sponsors---not her skating or physical body. Contrast her to Sonja Henie who won all of her titles "skating clean" and "technically challenging programs like, adding jumps like the single axle jumps reserved only for men. The arguments which state Henie's generation did easier elements does not hold up. All skating is relative. Today's skaters don't have the stamina required to perform outdoors in the cold, exposed to elements of snow, rain,sleet and extreme cold as past generations. They also cannot master the concentration required to execute the 80 figures skating once demanded.
Even today Henies power and strength a spinner would plough kwan and every other competitor through the ice by the sheer force of torque she generated. Her speed was exponentially more than Kwan covering far more rink than today's skaters. It takes strengh,endurance,stamina real physical power to move around a rink the way henie skated. There were no slow sections to rest in her skating routines. As an entertainer audiences adored her for decades. Mobs became unruly wanting a glimpse of her at public appearances. Riots brokeout, she had a police escort for all public appearances during her Olympic days. This is proof the Olympics are the sports biggest stage--not the pros(entertainment). Sold out world wide engagements & box-office fame these are the measure of a "great" pro career as an entertainer. Pro skating is about being an entertainer. Henie was top of the pack for 4 decades as a performer, movie star and entertainer. She has no peer. But I can think of a lot of other female skaters who have made more impact than Michelle Kwan. She is nothing special —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.83.220.141 (talk) 19:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
This is a terrible written biography. She is one of the greatest female figure skaters of all time and arguably the best. I don't know who wrote this article but it sounds like they hate her. I read the last guys comment about the 1st para being written by a pr guy .... you should take a look at tara lipinski's page, it's full of self-promotion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.21.175.225 ( talk) 09:48, February 12, 2006 (UTC)
THis is supposed to be a nuetral article not to promote her but to provide some objectivity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juaquino ( talk • contribs) 04:56, March 15, 2006 (UTC)
huh? how do you get the tone that they hate her? And what sin did she commit??! Everyone sins! She's no exception if she did! 69.235.239.244 ( talk) 20:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
As someone who knows nothing about skating, it is this reporting made me know of this outstanding skater almost 10 years ago. The report is a historical fact and is relevant to that competition and Michelle. Actually the news headline made such a strong impression on me that I knew something was amiss when I first came across this entry few days ago (i.e. before my addition of this info). I do not quite understand by what criteria this bit of info deem inappropriate... I don't suppose it is still controversial given it happened such a long time ago?! Aka100 ( talk) 12:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
What is meant by "Cantonese IPA: Gwaan Wingsaan"? Probably Cantonese form or Cantonese spelling. IPA is a special phonetic alphabet using signs like these: ɸ ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ ʝ ɣ ɲ ŋ ɵ ɤ ə ɚ ɛ ɜ ɝ ʌ ɔ ɐ ɶ ɑ ɒ. Swedish Wikipedia user Wikimiki, 16:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.236.184.81 ( talk)
This article should be incorporated into the article: http://www.du.edu/today/stories/2009/06/2009-06-04kwan.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.122.185.212 ( talk) 15:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I look up to her because she is not just a grate artist but an even greater Skater.
If you are looking for a role motel ice skater then don't do any thing until you see her skate because you mite of found her right here.
Michelle Kwan just as soon as her toe pick touches the ice she lights up and right when she jumps shes ready to land it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.160.138.17 ( talk) 00:01, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Just a reminder that this is an encyclopedia, not a Michelle Kwan fan site. Some particular things that are not appropriate to include in this article are:
I think the article already makes it clear that Kwan is a very prominent, accomplished, and popular athlete, and it doesn't need to include specific examples of fannishness to make the point. Dr.frog 03:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning that she also has a cameo as herself in the 2010 remake of Ice Castles? 66.156.90.250 ( talk) 02:03, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
As far as I know, Kwan doesn't use her Chinese name, so it seems just as irrelevant to an article in English as it would be to include a Cyrillic transliteration of her name. Dr.frog 19:12, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Could some of the supporters of including her Chinese name please provide proof that it is in fact one of her given names. The fact that she is ethnically Chinese does not mean it should be included if it was not offically given or assumed by her. Every famous figure is given a Chinese name when reported about in the Chinese press, that doesn't mean it should be in their wikipedia entry. 67.39.179.156 07:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't matter what name Chinese people use for her. But what is the reason for including her Chinese name in non-Chinese Wikipedias? Do we include Hebrew names of Jewish-Americans in their Wikipedia articles? Why must the ancestry of Asian-Americans deserve special emphasis? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.151.135.10 ( talk) 01:03, January 22, 2007 (UTC)
I'm complete agree with Kowloonese here. I'm a bilingual in chinese and english. I wouldn't know who Matteo Ricci is until I saw his chinese name included in his page on en.wikipedia.org. Now I know he was the one that I had read about in chinese history. Given the globalized the env and infomation explosion, more and more ppl speak multiple languages. I think its a good idea to include both given names at main info pages. Make it easy for ppl researching on cross reference in multi language mediase. With busy life nowadays no many ppl have patiantes go through trivial pages. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
68.37.198.146 (
talk)
19:18, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
How many English sources do we have that show Kwan identifying herself using this as a given name (not just as a middle name)? This is certainly not notable in the English Wikipedia. 174.252.23.87 ( talk) 11:55, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I was looking through the links at the bottom and found that both #3 and #5 do not correspond to a website. As they were accessed in 2006, they probably need to be corrected and modified. #7, #8, and #9 lead directly to the Harris Interactive homepage and not the PDF that it should link to. Again, this is probably because it has been a long time since it was added to the page. Additionally, I find the Personal Life section is in need of information. It only talks about her wedding so either the section needs to be renamed or more updated information should be added. Epchdc ( talk) 22:07, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
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She was on an episode of season 4 of Queer Eye (a netflix Show), where she cameoed. Thought it might be worth a mention. — Insertcleverphrasehere( or here)( or here)( or here) 21:53, 8 January 2022 (UTC)