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My name is Larry Weisenberg and I represent Mike Milken. A recent change has been made eliminating the descriptor of “philanthropist” to the lead sentence in his biography. This is not the first time in the recent past editors have tried to remove this descriptor. The editor justifies his change by writing that “every billionaire is a philanthropist.” First of all, this reeks of bias and an attempt to add NPOV. Secondly, it takes less than a minute to determine that the following people are listed as philanthropists in their lead paragraph: Larry Ellison, Mark Zuckerberg, Boone Pickens, Jeff Bezos, Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Ted Turner. Given another 10 minutes, any Wiki editor could probably find 500 similar examples. This page has a long history of similar attempts to add a NPOV to this biography. I recommend reverting to “financier and philanthropist” as a fair, unbiased descriptor of a man with a documented four-decade commitment as a philanthropist. LarryWeisenberg ( talk) 23:25, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
:OK. Limit-theorem ( talk) 10:14, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
My name is Larry Weisenberg and I represent Mike Milken. Editors who wish to promote their own NPOV continue to vandalize the lead paragraph of this page. As I have noted in the past, I’m not interested in pasting over his legal troubles; there’s plenty of that on this page. I do, however, suggest two simple objectives:
1. Produce a fair and unbiased encyclopedic entry
2. Reflect the fullness of his career, including his financial innovations, U.S. securities violations and an impactful and documented four-decade commitment to philanthropy
Let’s take a look at the facts:
Both Jmayer and TonyFoolery have tried to add the following to the lead, calling Mike “the mastermind of one of the largest swindles in American history, a ‘junk bond’ scam that partially instigated the Savings and loan crisis of the 1980s.” This statement is sourced to a 30-year-old opinion article – not a news story – in which the original author has a decidedly negative and biased point of view. Both editors betray their bais and NPOV in their edit comments. I don’t believe Wikipedia bases its entries on opinion pieces.
S&L Crisis
Connecting Milken to the S&L crisis is inaccurate. According to an
article by Burt Ely for the Library of Economics and Liberty, “junk bonds played a trivial role” in the S&L crisis. Ely cites a GAO report noting that only 5% of S&Ls owned junk bonds, and those investments totaled 1.2% of all S&L investments. I don’t believe Wikipedia bases its entries on demonstrably false information and supposition without sources.
Largest swindles
I apologize for being so factual, but the judge in Southern District in Milken’s case determined that the total economic effect of the violations totaled $318,082 - about three ten-thousandths of a single day's trading. Now, I realize his case was a high-profile media circus, but facts are facts.
Philanthropist vs. Finance?
Jmayer, TonyFoolery and Orange Mike (see Sept 29, 2017 edit) argue that Milken is known primarily for his finance career. That may have been true in 1990, but not today. In fact, there’s not enough room on this page to cite the impact of Milken’s philanthropic initiatives, so I’ll give just six highly prominent sourced references:
Bottom line, the point is not whether Milken is better known for philanthropy or his legal issues: at this point in history, an unbiased overview of his life demands he be recognized as a philanthropist, as a financier, and as someone who pleaded guilty to violating U.S. security laws. By continuing to try to dismiss his impact as one of the most influential philanthropists of the last 50 years, certain editors are aggressively pushing a NPOV with sensational and biased language on this biography page. It has to stop. LarryWeisenberg ( talk) 20:37, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
SUGGESTED OLDER VERSION:
Michael Robert Milken (born July 4, 1946) is an American financier and philanthropist. He is noted for his role in the development of the market for high-yield bonds ("junk bonds"),[2], his conviction following a guilty plea on felony charges for violating U.S. securities laws, and his charitable giving.[3]
Thank you.
LarryWeisenberg (
talk)
22:03, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
My name is Larry Weisenberg and I represent Michael Milken. Once again, the lead paragraph of Mike Milken's page has been vandalized. This time, Jmayer demonstrates his strongly biased POV in his edit remarks by noting that "Milken's philanthropy is incidental compared to his broader historical impact and is not worth noting." Wow. He just erased four decades of demonstrated major philanthropic efforts across a broad spectrum, including medical research, public health and education. In the article, he adds that Milken was "the mastermind of one of the largest swindles in American history, a "junk bond" scam that partially instigated the Savings and loan crisis of the 1980s." In addition to being inaccurate on several counts, it's salaciously worded with an extremely negative POV that has no place in this biography. I recommend returning to the previous version. LarryWeisenberg ( talk) 22:53, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
I am pretty surprised the community allows ( Larry Weisenberg) to make any edits to this article, with his clear and stated conflict of interest. Editing your own page or hiring someone else to do so is extremely frowned upon. Wikipedia is not an advertisement. It is not an engine for image reconstruction. As an admitted novice when it comes to Wikipedia, I ask the community, am I off base on this? Epachamo ( talk) 02:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
My name is Larry Weisenberg and I represent Mike Milken. A recent change has been made eliminating the descriptor of “philanthropist” to the lead sentence in his biography. This is not the first time in the recent past editors have tried to remove this descriptor. The editor justifies his change by writing that “every billionaire is a philanthropist.” First of all, this reeks of bias and an attempt to add NPOV. Secondly, it takes less than a minute to determine that the following people are listed as philanthropists in their lead paragraph: Larry Ellison, Mark Zuckerberg, Boone Pickens, Jeff Bezos, Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Ted Turner. Given another 10 minutes, any Wiki editor could probably find 500 similar examples. This page has a long history of similar attempts to add a NPOV to this biography. I recommend reverting to “financier and philanthropist” as a fair, unbiased descriptor of a man with a documented four-decade commitment as a philanthropist. LarryWeisenberg ( talk) 23:25, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
:OK. Limit-theorem ( talk) 10:14, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
My name is Larry Weisenberg and I represent Mike Milken. Editors who wish to promote their own NPOV continue to vandalize the lead paragraph of this page. As I have noted in the past, I’m not interested in pasting over his legal troubles; there’s plenty of that on this page. I do, however, suggest two simple objectives:
1. Produce a fair and unbiased encyclopedic entry
2. Reflect the fullness of his career, including his financial innovations, U.S. securities violations and an impactful and documented four-decade commitment to philanthropy
Let’s take a look at the facts:
Both Jmayer and TonyFoolery have tried to add the following to the lead, calling Mike “the mastermind of one of the largest swindles in American history, a ‘junk bond’ scam that partially instigated the Savings and loan crisis of the 1980s.” This statement is sourced to a 30-year-old opinion article – not a news story – in which the original author has a decidedly negative and biased point of view. Both editors betray their bais and NPOV in their edit comments. I don’t believe Wikipedia bases its entries on opinion pieces.
S&L Crisis
Connecting Milken to the S&L crisis is inaccurate. According to an
article by Burt Ely for the Library of Economics and Liberty, “junk bonds played a trivial role” in the S&L crisis. Ely cites a GAO report noting that only 5% of S&Ls owned junk bonds, and those investments totaled 1.2% of all S&L investments. I don’t believe Wikipedia bases its entries on demonstrably false information and supposition without sources.
Largest swindles
I apologize for being so factual, but the judge in Southern District in Milken’s case determined that the total economic effect of the violations totaled $318,082 - about three ten-thousandths of a single day's trading. Now, I realize his case was a high-profile media circus, but facts are facts.
Philanthropist vs. Finance?
Jmayer, TonyFoolery and Orange Mike (see Sept 29, 2017 edit) argue that Milken is known primarily for his finance career. That may have been true in 1990, but not today. In fact, there’s not enough room on this page to cite the impact of Milken’s philanthropic initiatives, so I’ll give just six highly prominent sourced references:
Bottom line, the point is not whether Milken is better known for philanthropy or his legal issues: at this point in history, an unbiased overview of his life demands he be recognized as a philanthropist, as a financier, and as someone who pleaded guilty to violating U.S. security laws. By continuing to try to dismiss his impact as one of the most influential philanthropists of the last 50 years, certain editors are aggressively pushing a NPOV with sensational and biased language on this biography page. It has to stop. LarryWeisenberg ( talk) 20:37, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
SUGGESTED OLDER VERSION:
Michael Robert Milken (born July 4, 1946) is an American financier and philanthropist. He is noted for his role in the development of the market for high-yield bonds ("junk bonds"),[2], his conviction following a guilty plea on felony charges for violating U.S. securities laws, and his charitable giving.[3]
Thank you.
LarryWeisenberg (
talk)
22:03, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
My name is Larry Weisenberg and I represent Michael Milken. Once again, the lead paragraph of Mike Milken's page has been vandalized. This time, Jmayer demonstrates his strongly biased POV in his edit remarks by noting that "Milken's philanthropy is incidental compared to his broader historical impact and is not worth noting." Wow. He just erased four decades of demonstrated major philanthropic efforts across a broad spectrum, including medical research, public health and education. In the article, he adds that Milken was "the mastermind of one of the largest swindles in American history, a "junk bond" scam that partially instigated the Savings and loan crisis of the 1980s." In addition to being inaccurate on several counts, it's salaciously worded with an extremely negative POV that has no place in this biography. I recommend returning to the previous version. LarryWeisenberg ( talk) 22:53, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
I am pretty surprised the community allows ( Larry Weisenberg) to make any edits to this article, with his clear and stated conflict of interest. Editing your own page or hiring someone else to do so is extremely frowned upon. Wikipedia is not an advertisement. It is not an engine for image reconstruction. As an admitted novice when it comes to Wikipedia, I ask the community, am I off base on this? Epachamo ( talk) 02:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)