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Michael is the highest archangel, for example as seen in the War in Heaven, also check the Jewish Encyclopedia and Catholic Encyclopedia entries. How does this not qualify for Category:Superlatives in religion? User:History2007 claims this category has been overapplied? There are currently 32 entries in this category, how is this in any sense "over application"? Why do I feel that I'm just being pushed around because I choose to remain an anonymous editor? Is this how anonymous editors are encouraged to start a named account? 75.15.194.45 ( talk) 20:09, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Here are two references that should settle the issue of whether or not Michael is considered superlative:
Catholic Encyclopedia: St. Michael the Archangel: "Regarding his rank in the celestial hierarchy opinions vary; St. Basil (Hom. de angelis) and other Greek Fathers, also Salmeron, Bellarmine, etc., place St. Michael over all the angels; they say he is called "archangel" because he is the prince of the other angels; others (cf. P. Bonaventura, op. cit.) believe that he is the prince of the seraphim, the first of the nine angelic orders. But, according to St. Thomas (Summa Ia.113.3) he is the prince of the last and lowest choir, the angels. The Roman Liturgy seems to follow the Greek Fathers; it calls him "Princeps militiae coelestis quem honorificant angelorum cives". The hymn of the Mozarabic Breviary places St. Michael even above the Twenty-four Elders. The Greek Liturgy styles him Archistrategos, "highest general" (cf. Menaea, 8 Nov. and 6 Sept.). "
Jewish Encyclopedia: MICHAEL: Michael and Gabriel: "It is quite natural that, owing to his position with regard to the Jews, Michael should be represented in the Haggadah as the most prominent of the archangels. He is called by Daniel (Dan. xii. 1) "the great prince," and his greatness is described at length in later Jewish writings. He was one of the seven archangels first created (Enoch, xc. 21-22; Targ. Yer. to Deut. xxxiv. 6 gives only six), but among these seven four excel, and Michael is the chief of the four. Both he and Gabriel are called "great princes"; but Michael is higher in rank thanGabriel (Ber. 4b; Yoma 37a). He is the viceroy of God, who rules over the world (Enoch, lxix. 14 et seq.), and wherever Michael appears the Shekinah also is to be found (Ex. R. ii. 8). Michael is on the right of God's throne, while Gabriel is on the left ("Haggadat Shema' Yisrael," in Jellinek, l.c. v. 166; Targ. to Job xxv. 2; Enoch, xl. 9). Four armies of angels sing in praise of the Lord, the first being that of Michael at the right hand of God (Pirḳe R. El. iv.; "Hekalot," in Jellinek, l.c. ii. 43-44). A similar tradition is given in "Seder Gan 'Eden" (l.c. p. 138): Michael's place is by the first river, Pison, while Gabriel's is by the second, Gihon. It is Michael who, on account of his occupying the first place near God, receives the prayers of men from the angels and presents them to God (Baruch Apoc. Slavonic, xii.). His position makes him the companion of Meṭaṭron (Zohar, i. 149b)."
75.15.194.45 ( talk) 20:45, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Just out of idle curiosity, how did people first work out all these hierarchies and titles? PiCo ( talk) 13:41, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Where it says "Protestant denominations generally recognize only two archangels, Michael and Gabriel,"- I understand that Gabriel is mentioned in the Bible only as a messanger and not an archangel. Where does the reference to archangel come from? 213.44.68.21 ( talk) 18:31, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello History, yes, I see that. One question though, is the Eastern Orthodox view of Michael so much different than the Roman Catholic Church's? And even so, the way the section was before had BOTH, as you know now, and so why couldn't the section simply say both in the name? Or if not, why couldn't there now be a separate section of "Eastern Orthodoxy". There isn't any now. And really, there should be. If you want to make Roman Catholicism section alone, I do understand that actually. But wouldn't it be good and necessary now to at least have Eastern Orthodoxy with its own section in this article? I mean, it's a major church.
Hashem sfarim (
talk)
20:18, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
To Esoglou. Hi. If you notice, in this Michael Archangel article, there is no clear section for Eastern Orthodoxy. But for everything else there is, basically. Since you're very well-versed, it seems, in the differences between Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, and probably their views in the area of Michael also, I was wondering if you could maybe make a new section on the Michael article for Eastern Orthodoxy, since one is lacking. I'm sure RC and EO views on Michael are similar, but probably not 100% exactly the same. So I would think this Archangel Michael article warrants an EO section. What do you think? Regards. Hashem sfarim ( talk) 05:23, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Eastern Orthodox calls Michael the "Archistrategos", or "Supreme Commander of the Heavenly Hosts". [1] In line with this Eastern Orthodox interpretation, Michael first appears in the Old Testament in the book of Joshua's account of the fall of Jericho. Though Michael is not mentioned by name in the text, it is said that Joshua "looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand". When the still unaware Joshua asks which side of the fight the Archangel is on, Michael responds, "neither...but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come" ( Joshua 5:13–14) [2]
In the book of Daniel, Michael appears first to help the Archangel Gabriel defeat the Persians (10:13). In a later vision it is revealed to Daniel that "at that time [the end times] Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then..." (Ch. 12). Michael thus plays an important role as the protector of Israel and later of his chosen people, the Church.
The Church Fathers also ascribe to Michael the following events: During the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt he went before them in the form of a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night; the power of the great Chief Commander of God was manifest in the annihilation of the 185 thousand soldiers of the Assyrian emperor Sennacherib ( 2 Kings 19:35); also in the smiting of the impious leader Heliodorus ({{bibleverse|2|Maccabees|3:24-26); and in the protection of the Three Holy Youths: Ananias, Azarias and Misail, thrown into the fiery furnace for their refusal to worship an idol ( Daniel 3:22–25). Through the will of God, the Chief Commander Michael transported the Prophet Habbakuk from Judea to Babylon, to give food to Daniel in the lions' den ( Daniel 14:33–37). The Archangel Michael disputed with the devil over the body of the holy Prophet Moses ( Jude 1:9).
In later times, according to a story found in the Athonite Paterikon, and in the Life of St Neophytus of Docheiariou, Michael miraculously saved a young man cast into the sea by robbers with a stone about his neck on the shores of Mt Athos.
Perhaps his most famous miracle was saving the church at Colossae, which a number of pagans tried to destroy by diverting the flow of two rivers directly into its path. However, the Archangel appeared amongst the waters, and, carrying a cross, channeled the rivers underground so that the ground the church stood on would not be destroyed. The spring which came forth after this event is said to have special healing powers. [3]
Michael also has been associated with healing in other cases, as well as his primary role as leader of the Church Militant. He has been said to appear to Emperor Constantine the Great (d. 337) at Constantinople, to have intervened in assorted battles, and appeared, sword in hand, over the mausoleum of Hadrian, in apparent answer to the prayers of Pope St. Gregory I the Great (590-604) that a plague in Rome should cease.
Russians in particular have a special veneration to Michael, along with the Theotokos. According to OCA, "Intercession for Russian cities by the Most Holy Queen of Heaven always involved Her appearances with the Heavenly Hosts, under the leadership of the Archangel Michael. Grateful Rus acclaimed the Most Pure Mother of God and the Archangel Michael in church hymns. Many monasteries, cathedrals, court and merchant churches are dedicated to the Chief Commander Michael. In Rus there was not a city where there was not a church or chapel dedicated to the Archangel Michael."
There are three icons of the Archangel Michael in whose composition he is said to have personally intervened: Archangel Michael of Mantamados in Mytilene, Archangel Michael of Panormitis and Archangel Michael of Nenita. Each of these icons are different.
More typically, he is represented as the Chief Commander of the Heavenly hosts, holding a sword in one hand; in the other he often carries either a shield, a date-tree branch, a spear, or a white banner (possibly with a scarlet cross). Some icons show him holding an orb in one hand and a staff in the other. Inside the orb are often the superimposed Greek letters ΧΡ, the ChiRho symbol for Christ.
Michael is also represented in icons as standing on a horizontal body and with his left arm held high, holding a small image of a "baby". The body represents a human being at the time of his death and the image of the "baby" represents the soul of the deceased. This icon came about since the belief that the Archangel Michael takes the souls of the dead to heaven. This is typical of the miraculous and wonder-working Archangel Michael of Panormitis, in Symi of Greece.
In Russian iconography he is most likely to be wearing red. In many instances, Michael tramples the devil under his feet, which may be depicted as a dragon. This comes from the tradition that Michael was the main opponent of Satan in the battle for Heaven. Satan, previously called Samael, was always looking to discredit Israel, while Michael was its main protector. In the end, Satan attempted to drag Michael down in his fall from the heights, but Michael was rescued by God.
The place of Michael in the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria is comparable to that of the Virgin Mary. [4] He is seen as the one who presents to God the prayers of the just, who accompanies the souls of the dead to heaven, who defeats the devil. He is celebrated liturgically on the 12th of each month. In Alexandria, a church was dedicated to him in the early fourth century on the 12th of the month of Ba'unah. On the 12th of the month of Hatur is the celebration of Michael's investiture in heaven as a replacement for Satan, whereupon Michael became the chief of the angels.
The Eastern Orthodox material you added is actually enough for a new article, not a section. So I think we can turn what you entered here into an article, add a few more refs and then have a section here that points to it via a Main. I really like the iconography section and can get the icons for it- pretty nice section. The Coptic material will make a good section. Really nice addition Esoglou. Thanks. History2007 ( talk) 13:34, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
As I was cleaning up refs etc. it turned out that it was verbatim from a website, so would have been copyvio. The iconography was similar. I commented them out they it can be rewritten in different form and references. The text also referenced Daniel 14, but Daniel ends at 12, etc. Anyway, will need work later. History2007 ( talk) 03:17, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Can someone here please explain to us if www.wordpress.com is a WP:RS source? It is a blog site. Now http://scripturethoughts.wordpress.com is being used in the article as a source... History2007 ( talk) 18:45, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
I never cared what Spurgeon said, but I was not going to accept wordpres. It is not WP:RS. Now:
So just use WP:RS sources. That is all. History2007 ( talk) 19:16, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
websters-online-dictionary.org appears to use Wikipedia as a source. It seems not to be a good source for us to use. Tom Harrison Talk 21:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
All saints are human. Michael is an angel, not a human. Therefore Michael is not a saint. Many Christian churches venerate the angels and saints. Each is venerated in a way peculiar to its form; saints are venerated as saints; angels are venerated as angels. That both types may appear on lists as venerable is not to confuse their type; they are not consubstantial as it were. That Michael is sometimes called "Saint Michael" is not a sign of his saintliness or an indication of his humanity; it refers to his sanctity, his holiness; it is an etymological quirk, no more. No Vatican or other document can be produced to affirm that Michael is a saint in as much as any ordinary Christian human is a saint such as Saint Stephan. So he must be excluded from the saint categories. It's possible that a higher category is need such as "Saints and angelic beings venerated by Christians"; I'd be happy for Michael to be a member of such a category. But saints on its own - no. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 21:57, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Link was to silence, not science. And your reference refutes your own point, given that on page 27 it starts by saying: "indeed some angels are counted and celebrated among the saints". History2007 ( talk) 12:38, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Long and short of it is: "all saints are human" is false and you do not have a source that says that. History2007 ( talk) 22:02, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
I will attempt to be brief. The term "saint" derives from the Latin "sanctus" which in turn derives from the Greek "άγιος", meaning "holy". It is used very broadly by various denominations. In the instant context the following considerations might be helpful: First, a common definition is: A person officially recognized, especially by canonization, as being entitled to public veneration and capable of interceding for people on earth. (A secondary description mentions a person who has died and gone to heaven.) Second, Aquinas is clear that angels are part of the mystical body, they share with men the friendship of God, and with men are ordained to one end, His glory. In this they share in the transcendent idea of spiritual solidarity between all the children of God. Thirdly, there is Leo XIII's "Prayer to St. Michael", to which John Paul II referred in his Regina Coeli address of April 24, 1994. "Although this prayer is no longer recited at the end of Mass, I ask everyone not to forget it and to recite it to obtain help in the battle against the forces of darkness and against the evil spirits of this world." There is an Altar of St.Michael the Archangel in St. Peter's Basilica. [3]
Raphael, Gabriel, and Michael are invoked as saints since they have been introduced by name in scripture. The fact that angels and saints are occasionally listed separately insures the inclusion of all the unnamed Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, etc. Are angels created by, and therefore children of God? yes. Are they persons with intellect and will? yes. Are they worthy of veneration and capable of interceding for people? yes. Michael is a saint, at least apparently according to Rome. Pax vobiscum. Mannanan51 ( talk) 07:03, 26 November 2012 (UTC)Mannanan51
There is no evidence that either Michael or saints (except in the superficial figurative sense) actually exist. There is no definitive answer to this entirely subjective question. For the purposes of Wikipedia, the only content that can result from this discussion can be, essentially, "Source xyz says Michael is a saint. Source abc says he's not."-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 09:50, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Regarding your statement that: Firstly, angels are not "persons" try this link anyway, then you will know that theologically they are. It goes as far back as Augie at least. Mannanan's statement that "Are they persons with intellect and will? yes." is theologically completely correct. But this is really a discussion for the Angel page anyway. History2007 ( talk) 00:03, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
The same discussion has restarted here now on the top level category page. History2007 ( talk) 22:27, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
According to: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loa) St. Michael (archangel) has been syncretised into Hatian Vodou as a Loa spirit. In fact, the entry for "Loa" refers to this article on St. Micheal without going into any detail regarding "St. Micheal the Loa". As the majority of the Loa spirits mentioned on the wikipedia entry regarding Loa have links to their own pages, is there sufficient merit for adding a section regarding St. Micheal (archangel) within Vodou to the "Religious Traditions" section? St. Micheal is already associated with multiple religions in this section including Judiasm, Christianity, and Isalm. Furthermore Vodou is a very old faith and as of 2004 an estimated 60 million people or more practice voodoo worldwide ( http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0707_040707_tvtaboovoodoo.html). Since there are several people actively maintaining this page I thought it best simply to pose the question first and wait to see what happens.
50.99.43.77 ( talk) 08:05, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
The Historical Protestant and SDA section is poorly represented, as is the early 'fathers' and 'eastern' positions, and even the Roman Catholic views... needs to be updated.
Additions to be made/considered, Citations [the follwoing believed Michael Archangel to be pre-incarnate Word, Logos or Jesus]:
Charles Spurgeon [Baptist]
"Let the Lord Jesus Christ be for ever endeared to us, for through Him we are made to sit in heavenly places far above principalities and powers. He it is whose camp is round about them that fear Him; He is the true Michael whose foot is upon the dragon. All hail, Jesus! thou Angel of Jehovah’s presence, to Thee this family offers its morning vows." [Charles Spurgeon; Morning and Evening Daily Readings; page 556; Morning Devotion; October 3 on Hebrews 1:14] - http://www.heartlight.org/spurgeon/1003-am.html
"Michael will always fight; his holy soul is vexed with sin, and will not endure it. Jesus will always be the dragon’s foe, and that not in a quiet sense, but actively, vigorously, with full determination to exterminate evil." [Charles Spurgeon; Morning and Evening Daily Readings; page 673; Evening Devotion; November 30 on Revelaton 12:7] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/spurgeon/1130pm.htm
John Gill [English Baptist Scholar]
"Another prophecy in Dan. xii. 1, 2, 3. represents the second and personal coming of Christ ; for he is meant by Michael, who is as God, as his name signifies, equal to him ; the great prince, the prince of the kings of the earth, and the head of all principalities and powers." [A Complete Body of Practical and Doctrinal Divinity, The Baptist Standard Bearer, 1987 reprint, page 617; or A Body of Doctrinal Divinity; Book 7—Chapter 5; Of the Second Coming of Christ, and His Personal Appearance; section 1b2] - http://pbministries.org/books/gill/Doctrinal_Divinity/Book_7/book7_05.htm
"Yet Michael the archangel, &c. By whom is meant, not a created angel, but an eternal one, the Lord Jesus Christ; as appears from his name Michael, which signifies, "who is as God": and who is as God, or like unto him, but the Son of God, who is equal with God? and from his character as the archangel, or Prince of angels, for Christ is the head of all principality and power; and from what is elsewhere said of Michael, as that he is the great Prince, and on the side of the people of God, and to have angels under him, and at his command, Dan. 10:21, 12:1; Revelation 12:7. So Philo the Jew {o} calls the most ancient Word, firstborn of God, the archangel. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Jude verse 9] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/jude/gill/jude1.htm
"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon: by whom is meant not a created angel, with whom his name does not agree, it signifying "who is as God"; nor does it appear that there is anyone created angel that presides over the rest, and has them at his command. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Revelation 12:7] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/revelation/gill/revelation12.htm
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, &c. The Archangel, who has all the angels of heaven under him, and at his command, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ; who is as God, as the name signifies, truly and really God, and equal in nature, power, and glory, to his divine Father. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Daniel 12:1] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/gill/daniel12.htm
Jonathan Edwards [Congregational; Theologian]
"When Lucifer rebelled and set up himself as a head in opposition to God and Christ, and set himself as a head in opposition to God and Christ, and drew away a great number of angels, the Son of God, manifested himself as an opposite head, and appeared graciously to dissuade and restrain by his grace the elect angels from hearkening to Lucifer’s temptation, so that they were upheld and preserved eternal destruction at this time of great danger by the free and sovereign distinguishing grace of Christ. Herein Christ was the Saviour of the elect angels, for thought he did not save them as he did elect men from the ruin they had already deserved, and were condemned to, and the miserable, state they were already in, yet he saved them from eternal destruction they were in great danger of, and otherwise would have fallen into with the other angels. The elect angels joined with him, the glorious Michael, as their captain, while the other angels hearkened to Lucifer and joined him, and then was that literally true that fulfilled afterwards figuratively. Revelation xii. “When there was war in heaven : Michael and his angels fought against the dragon ; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not ; neither was there place found any more heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world ; he was case out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”" [The Works of Jonathan Edwards, Volume 2, Banner of Truth, 1979 reprint, page 606] - http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/works2.xii.i.html
Matthew Henry [English Bible Commentator; Presbyterian Minister]
"Daniel 12:1 Vs. 1-4: Michael signifies, "Who is like God," and his name, with the title of "the great Prince," points out the Divine Savior. Christ stood for the children of our people in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the curse for them, to bear it from them. He stands for them in pleading for them at the throne of grace. And after the destruction of antichrist, the Lord Jesus shall stand at the latter day upon the earth; and He shall appear for the complete redemption of all his people." [Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary; Daniel 12:1] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/mhc/daniel12.htm
"Michael and his angels fight against the devil and his angels, who are defeated. (7-12). . . .Revelation 12:7 Vs. 7-11: The attempts of the dragon proved unsuccessful against the church, and fatal to his own interests. The seat of this war was in heaven; in the church of Christ, the kingdom of heaven on earth. The parties were Christ, the great Angel of the covenant, and his faithful followers; and Satan and his instruments." [Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary; Daniel 12:7] - http://mhc.biblecommenter.com/revelation/12.htm
"I. Jesus Christ shall appear his church's patron and protector: At that time, when the persecution is at the hottest, Michael shall stand up, v. 1. The angel had told Daniel what a firm friend Michael was to the church, ch. 10:21. He all along showed this friendship in the upper world; the angels knew it; but now Michael shall stand up in his providence, and work deliverance for the Jews, when he sees that their power is gone, Deu. 32:3. 6. Christ is that great prince, for he is the prince of the kings of the earth, Revelation 1:5. And, if he stand up for his church, who can be against it? But this is not all: At that time (that is, soon after) Michael shall stand up for the working out of our eternal salvation; the Son of God shall be incarnate, shall be manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Christ stood for the children of our people when he was made sin and a curse for them, stood in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the cure for them, to bear it from them. He stands for them in the intercession he ever lives to make within the veil, stands up for them, and stands their friend. And after the destruction of antichrist, of whom Antiochus was a type, Christ shall stand at the latter day upon the earth, shall appear for the complete redemption of all his." [Matthew Henry's Complete Commentary; Daniel 12 verse 1-4] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/mh/daniel12.htm
1599 Geneva Study Bible
"5:14 And he said, Nay; but [as] captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and {g} did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? (g) In that Joshua worships him, he acknowledges him to be God: and in that he calls himself the Lord's captain he declares himself to be Christ." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Joshua 5:14] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbnjoshua.htm
"Even though God could by one angel destroy all the world, yet to assure his children of his love he sends forth double power, even Michael, that is, Christ Jesus the head of angels." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Daniel 10:13] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbndaniel.htm
"10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: {q} and [there is] none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. (q) For this angel [Gabriel] was appointed for the defence of the Church under Christ, who is the head of it." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Daniel 10:21] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbndaniel.htm
"The angel here notes two things: first that the Church will be in great affliction and trouble at Christ's coming, and next that God will send his angel to deliver it, whom he here calls Michael, meaning Christ, who is proclaimed by the preaching of the Gospel." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Daniel 12:1] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbndaniel.htm
"(14) Christ is the Prince of angels and head of the Church, who bears that iron rod Re 12:5 . Also see Geneva "Da 12:1". In this verse a description of the battle and of the victory in the two verses following Re 12:8,9 . The psalmist noted this battle as did Paul; Ps 68:9 Eph 4:8 Co 2:15 ." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Revelation 12:7] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbnrevelation.htm
John Calvin ['The' Calvinist]
"... As we stated yesterday, Michael may mean an angel; but I embrace the opinion of those who refer this to the person of Christ, because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people. ..." [John Calvin; Commentary On Daniel; Volume 2; Lecture Sixty-Five [65]] - http://christianbookshelf.org/calvin/commentary_on_daniel_volume_2/lecture_sixty-five_.htm
John Wesley ['The' Methodist]
"Verse 14. As captain - I am the chief captain of this people, and will conduct and assist thee and them in this great undertaking. Now this person is not a created angel, but the son of God, who went along with the Israelites in this expedition, as their chief and captain. And this appears,
1. By his acceptance of adoration here, which a created angel durst not admit of, Revelation xxii, 8, 9.
2. Because the place was made holy by his presence, ver. 15, which was God's prerogative, Exod. iii, 5.
3. Because he is called the Lord, Hebrew. Jehovah, chap. vi, 2. My Lord - I acknowledge thee for my Lord and captain, and therefore wait for thy commands, which I am ready to obey." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Joshua 5:14] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/joshua/wesley/joshua5.htm
"10:5 A certain man - Very probably Christ, who appeared to Daniel in royal and priestly robes, and in so great brightness and majesty." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Daniel 10:5] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/wesley/daniel10.htm
"10:13 Michael - Michael here is commonly supposed to mean Christ. I remained - To counter - work their designs against the people of God." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Daniel 10:13] - John Wesley's Notes on the Bible
"10:21 Michael - Christ alone is the protector of his church, when all the princes of the earth desert or oppose it." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Daniel 10:21] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/wesley/daniel10.htm
"...so there will be yet a greater deliverance to the people of God, when Michael your prince, the Messiah shall appear for your salvation. ... The phrase at that time, probably includes all the time of Christ, from his first, to his last coming." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Daniel 12:1] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/wesley/daniel12.htm
Brown's Dictionary Of The Holy Bible [partially recognizes; Calvinist]
"MICHAEL, the archangel, at least sometimes signifies Jesus Christ. He is the person who is as God, and which this name signifies; against him and his angels, his ministers and followers, the devil, and the heathen empire of Rome, and their agents, fought in the way of reproach, laws, persecutions, &c. Revelation xii. 7. He is the great Prince ..., who,...shall raise the dead, Dan. xii. 1,2,3 ..." [Revelation John Brown's Dictionary of The Bible; page 95 "MIC-MID"; heading "Michael"] - http://books.google.com/books?id=V31AAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
James Wood Dictionary Of The Holy Bible [aka: Wood's Spiritual Dictionary; Methodist]
"MICHAEL, the archangel, at least sometimes signifies Jesus Christ. He is the person who is as God, and which this name signifies: against him and his angels, his ministers and followers, the devil, and the heathen empire of Rome, and their agents, fought in the way of reproach, laws, persecutions, &c. Revelation xii. 7. He is the great Prince ..., who,...shall raise the dead, Dan. xii. 1,2,3 ..." [James Wood Dictionary Of The Bible; Volume 2; page 165 "MIC-MIC" - page 166 "MIC-MID"; heading "Michael"] - http://books.google.com/books?id=Uzc8AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Ernst Wilhelm Hengstenberg [Lutheran; Dr. and Prof. Of Theology, Berlin]
"Michael is not mentioned again, after chap. x. 21, until chap. xii. 1, where it is said, "at that time shall Michael stand, the great prince, which standeth for the children of thy people." "The great prince" (equivalent to the King of kings in the Revelation), serves as the complement to "one of the chief princes." The rescue of Israel is here ascribed to Michael alone, and the subordinate task of Gabriel entirely vanishes. Bertholt supplies, in an arbitrary manner, "against the guardian spirit of the Graeco-Syrian kingdom." Michael has to deal directly with the imperial power. The personification is dropped, as a proof that it has no reality.
The two passages in the New Testament, in which Michael is mentioned, serve to confirm the result already arrived at. That the Michael referred to in Revelation xii. 7 is no other than the Logos, has already been proved in my commentary upon that passage..." [Christology Of The Old Testament And A Commentary On The Messianic Predictions; Appendix iii; page 304 and onward] - http://books.google.com/books?id=lFJGAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Thomas Scott [Anglican; Priest]
"Daniel 12 Verse 1: Michael signifies, Who is like God? And this name, with the title of “the great Prince, which standeth for the children of thy people,” most clearly points out the divine Saviour; and cannot properly be understood of a created angel." [Thomas Scott [Anglican Priest; founder of the Church Missionary Society]; The Holy Bible Containing The Old And New Testaments, According To The Authorized Version, With Explanatory Notes, Pracitcal Observations And Copious Marginal References; Notes - Daniel Chapter XII. V. 1.; page 839] - http://books.google.com/books?id=drFUAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Thomas Haweis [Church Of England, Anglican]
"Daniel 12:1. Christ, the great Prince, shall stand up in the time of great tribulation, ... or at the great day when he shall come to complete the redemption of his people, and to execute final vengeance on their enemies, when all that are written among the righteous, and found in the book of life of the Lamb, shall be delivered from the power of evil for ever." [Thomas Haweis; The Evangelical Expositor, A Commentary On The Holy Bible; Daniel 12:1] - http://books.google.com/books?id=Q6BTYAAACAAJ&dq=Thomas+Haweis;+The+Evangelical+Expositor,+A+Commentary+On+The+Holy+Bible&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UlHyUNf2G8H9igLWxoHADg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA see: http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/2010/02/non-adventist-sources-confirming.html
Adam Clarke's Commentary [Methodist; Theologian]
"Michael, he who is like God, sometimes appears to signify the Messiah, at other times the highest or chief archangel. Indeed there is no archangel mentioned in the whole Scripture but this one. See Jude 1:9; Revelation 12:7." [Adam Clarke's Commentary; The Holy Bible Containing The Old And New Testaments: The Text Printed From The Most Correct Copies Of The Present Authorized Translation, Including The Marginal Readings And Parallel Texts, With A Commentary And Critical Notes. Designed As A Help To A Better Understanding Of The Sacred Writings, Volume IV [4]; Daniel 10; page 343] - http://books.google.com/books?id=KoVUAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Notes on [Zechariah] Chapter III. Verse I. And he shewed me Joshua the Highpriest] The Angel of the Lord is the Messiah, as we have seen before ..." [Adam Clarke's Commentary; The Holy Bible Containing The Old And New Testaments: The Text Printed From The Most Correct Copies Of The Present Authorized Translation, Including The Marginal Readings And Parallel Texts, With A Commentary And Critical Notes. Designed As A Help To A Better Understanding Of The Sacred Writings, Volume IV [4]; Zechariah 3:1; page 499] - http://books.google.com/books?id=KoVUAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Verse 9. Yet Michael the archangel Of this personage many things are spoken in the Jewish writings "Rabbi Judah Hakkodesh says: Wherever Michael is said to appear, the glory of the Divine Majesty is always to be understood." Shemoth Rabba, sec. ii., fol. 104,3. So that it seems as if they considered Michael in some sort as we do the Messiah manifested in the flesh."
"Let it be observed that the word archangel is never found in the plural number in the sacred writings. There can be properly only one archangel, one chief or head of all the angelic host. Nor is the word devil, as applied to the great enemy of mankind, ever found in the plural; there can be but one monarch of all fallen spirits. Michael is this archangel, and head of all the angelic orders; the devil, great dragon, or Satan, is head of all the diabolic orders. When these two hosts are opposed to each other they are said to act under these two chiefs, as leaders; hence in Revelation 12:7, it is said: MICHAEL and his angels fought against the DRAGON and his angels. The word Michael seems to be compounded of mi, who, ke, like, and El, God; he who is like God; hence by this personage, in the Apocalypse, many understand the Lord Jesus." [Adam Clarke's Commentary; Jude 9] - http://clarke.biblecommenter.com/jude/1.htm
"Michael was the man-child which the woman brought forth, as is evident from the context; ... ... Michael, he is "the great prince which standeth for the children of God's people." Dan. xii. 1." [Adam Clarke's Commentary; The Holy Bible Containing The Old And New Testaments: The Text Printed From The Most Correct Copies Of The Present Authorized Translation, Including The Marginal Readings And Parallel Texts, With A Commentary And Critical Notes. Designed As A Help To A Better Understanding Of The Sacred Writings, Volume VI [6]; Revelation 12:7; page 927;] - http://books.google.com/books?id=E-A8AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Abingdon Bible Commentary
"The idea of the heavenly being who thus comes to view as a feature in old apocalyptic tradition is the source of the conception of the heavenly Messiah—the Son of Man. . . . We have already seen that the heavenly being 'like unto a son of man' of Dan. 7 was probably identified by the author . . . with Israel's angel—prince Michael; this angelic being was later, it would seem, invested with Messianic attributes, and so became the pre-existent heavenly Messiah." [Frederick Carl Eiselen; Edwin Lewis; David G. Downey; Abingdon Bible Commentary; page 846 [first link to mere book]; [also see; The Ezra-Apocalypse; page 284 [second link]] - http://books.google.com/books?id=TpsQz8m5RbcC&q=We+have+already+seen+that+the+heavenly+being+%27like+unto+a+son+of+man%27+of+Dan.+7+was+probably+identified+by+the+author&dq=We+have+already+seen+that+the+heavenly+being+%27like+unto+a+son+of+man%27+of+Dan.+7+was+probably+identified+by+the+author&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MlLyUJHIBOSDjAKjqYCICg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA and see http://books.google.com/books?id=9MUUAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Lange's Commentary [Johann Peter Lange; German Calvinist]
"We have shown elsewhere that the Archangel Michael is an image of Christ victoriously combatant. Christ is an Archangel in His quality of judge; and He appears as judge, not only at the end of the world, but also in the preservation of the purity of His Church." [Johann Peter Lange; Lange's Commentary; A Commentary Of The Holy Scriptures: Critical, Doctrinal And Homiletical, With Special Reference To Ministers And Students; page 238; Revelation 12:1-12] - http://books.google.com/books?id=g5tBAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Wikipedia [The Free Online Encyclopedia]
"Some early Protestant scholars identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, basing their view, partly on the juxtaposition of the "child" and the archangel in Revelation 12, and partly on the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel. [38]"
"[38] John A. Lees, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1930, Vol. 3, page 2048" [Wikipedia; Michael (archangel)] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_%28archangel%29#Early_Protestant_views
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia [comment by John A. Lees]
"The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the "child" and the archangel in Revelation 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel." - John A. Lees" [International Standard Bible Encyclopedia; comment by John A. Lees; section "Michael"] - www.bible-history.com/isbe/M/MICHAEL/
Vine's Expository Dictionary [William Edwy Vine]
"[* From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, pp. 142.] In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 the meaning seems to be that the voice of the Lord Jesus will be of the character of an "archangelic" shout"" [William Edwy Vine; Vine's Expository Dictionary; section "archangel"] - http://studybible.info/vines/Archangel
James Glasgow D.D. [Irish General Assembly's Professor Of Oriental Languages]
"This being 'a war in the heaven,' and waged by Michael, who is Christ (whose warfare is not like that of earthly kings), and by His messengers, is an intellectual and polemical warfare." [James Glasgow, D.D. Irish General Assembly's Professor Of Oriental Languages, Late Fellow Of The University Of Bombay, And Late Member Of The Royal Asiatic Society, Bombay; The Apocalypse; page 334, on Revelation 12:7] - http://books.google.com/books?id=cFFKAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia, Section “M”, subsection “St. Michael the Archangel” -
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10275b.htm
"... We have had occasion to mention the Septuagint version more than once, and it may not be amiss to indicate a few passages where it is our only source of information regarding the angels. The best known passage is Isaiah 9:6, where the Septuagint gives the name of the Messias, as "the Angel of great Counsel". ...
... The Massoretic text as well as the Vulgate of Exodus 3 and 19-20 clearly represent the Supreme Being as appearing to Moses in the bush and on Mount Sinai; ... The person of "the angel of the Lord" finds a counterpart in the personification of Wisdom in the Sapiential books and in at least one passage (Zechariah 3:1) it seems to stand for that "Son of Man" whom Daniel (7:13) saw brought before "the Ancient of Days". Zacharias says: "And the Lord showed me Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan stood on His right hand to be His adversary". Tertullian regards many of these passages as preludes to the Incarnation; as the Word of God adumbrating the sublime character in which He is one day to reveal Himself to men (cf. Against Praxeas 16; Against Marcion 2.27, 3.9, 1.10, 1.21-22). ... The earlier Fathers, going by the letter of the text, maintained that it was actually God Himself who appeared. He who appeared was called God and acted as God. It was not unnatural then for Tertullian, as we have already seen, to regard such manifestations in the light of preludes to the Incarnation, and most of the Eastern Fathers followed the same line of thought. It was held as recently as 1851 by Vandenbroeck, "Dissertatio Theologica de Theophaniis sub Veteri Testamento" (Louvain).
... St. Augustine (Sermo vii, de Scripturis, P.G. V) when treating of the burning bush (Exodus 3) says: "... . . . Some maintain that he is called both the Lord and the angel of the Lord because he was Christ, indeed the prophet (Isaiah 9:6, Septuagint Version) clearly styles Christ the 'Angel of great Counsel.'" The saint proceeds to show that such a view is tenable though we must be careful not to fall into Arianism in stating it. ...
... As an instance of how convinced some of the Fathers were in holding ..., we may note Theodoret's words (In Exod.): "The whole passage (Exodus 3) shows that it was God who appeared to him. But (Moses) called Him an angel in order to let us know that it was not God the Father whom he saw — for whose angel could the Father be? — but the Only-begotten Son, the Angel of great Counsel" (cf. Eusebius, Church History I.2.7; St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3:6). ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Section "A", subsection "Angels", part "The term "angel" in the Septuagint"] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm
There are also other "catholic" quotations as well, Irenaeus, Clement Of Alexandria, Justin Martyr, Eusebius Pamphili, Tertullian, and eastern fathers as noted by the Roman Catholic Online Encyclopdia, etc all who also add to the historical positions, see also http://biblelight.net/michael.htm
The Seventh Day Adventist position, being the Historical Biblical position, is also severly in need of updating, as earlier given.
Facts are facts, and quoted, documented and cited facts even more so.
75.42.69.46 ( talk) 05:56, 7 February 2013 (UTC) AWHN www.pearltrees.com/awhn http://awhn.webs.com/jesusinbookofdaniel.htm
Why would the user's presentation of solid information on Michael be removed and reverted from the "talk" section? The sources are well given, the citations are clear without prejudice or manipulation, and the links valid to those sources. The catholics (eastern and western), and the protestants, and other, seem to have a lot more to say in regards to this subject than the article currently shares. The article itself seems lacking in any real historical citations or depth on the subject and instead is heavily swayed towards iconography, worship of saints and traditional belief from sources other than the Bible.
The Seventh-day Adventists section is now larger than all other denominations, and runs against WP:Due given that they are a small denomination and can not over run the others in terms of real estate. There is a main link anyway. The IPs seem persistent and relentless. Unless they stop, the page will need will need Pending Changes. History2007 ( talk) 12:50, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm not a seventh day Adventist but it seems a shame to remove information simply due to other sections being too small. If there is more about him, in context of other religions, that should be mentioned that wouldn't it be better to add to the other sections? Also if there is more information listed in this particular section than in others couldn't it mean he is just more important to that group than it is to the other so size of the Adventist may be an unimportant factor.-- Drewder ( talk) 03:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
An anonymous editor (most recently as 24.79.38.15 ( talk · contribs)) has twice made claims about JW beliefs that are not found in JW publications, apparently not understanding the actual JW belief on the matter. I have again removed the claim.
Specifically, the editor added the claim, They also reason that when Jesus is says [sic] in Book of Revelation 3:12, "the one that conquers" he will write "that new name of mine" he must have had another name to replace. [4] However, what JW literature actually says about their own belief about the 'new name' at Revelation 3:12 is: Finally, anointed overcomers have written on them Jesus’ new name. This refers to Jesus’ new office and the unique privileges granted to him by Jehovah. (Philippians 2:9-11; Revelation 19:12) No one else gets to know that name, in the sense that no one else has those experiences or is entrusted with those privileges. (Revelation—Its Grand Climax at Hand, page 65; bold added).
Thus, JWs do not believe that "new name" refers to Michael.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 03:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
According to an exlanatory footnote I have read for Milton's Lycidas Michael is patron saint of England (alongside St. George of course)if that is true it should be noted, can anyone confirm its veracity? Hawjam ( talk) 04:37, 29 June 2013 (UTC)Hawjam
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Michael is the highest archangel, for example as seen in the War in Heaven, also check the Jewish Encyclopedia and Catholic Encyclopedia entries. How does this not qualify for Category:Superlatives in religion? User:History2007 claims this category has been overapplied? There are currently 32 entries in this category, how is this in any sense "over application"? Why do I feel that I'm just being pushed around because I choose to remain an anonymous editor? Is this how anonymous editors are encouraged to start a named account? 75.15.194.45 ( talk) 20:09, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Here are two references that should settle the issue of whether or not Michael is considered superlative:
Catholic Encyclopedia: St. Michael the Archangel: "Regarding his rank in the celestial hierarchy opinions vary; St. Basil (Hom. de angelis) and other Greek Fathers, also Salmeron, Bellarmine, etc., place St. Michael over all the angels; they say he is called "archangel" because he is the prince of the other angels; others (cf. P. Bonaventura, op. cit.) believe that he is the prince of the seraphim, the first of the nine angelic orders. But, according to St. Thomas (Summa Ia.113.3) he is the prince of the last and lowest choir, the angels. The Roman Liturgy seems to follow the Greek Fathers; it calls him "Princeps militiae coelestis quem honorificant angelorum cives". The hymn of the Mozarabic Breviary places St. Michael even above the Twenty-four Elders. The Greek Liturgy styles him Archistrategos, "highest general" (cf. Menaea, 8 Nov. and 6 Sept.). "
Jewish Encyclopedia: MICHAEL: Michael and Gabriel: "It is quite natural that, owing to his position with regard to the Jews, Michael should be represented in the Haggadah as the most prominent of the archangels. He is called by Daniel (Dan. xii. 1) "the great prince," and his greatness is described at length in later Jewish writings. He was one of the seven archangels first created (Enoch, xc. 21-22; Targ. Yer. to Deut. xxxiv. 6 gives only six), but among these seven four excel, and Michael is the chief of the four. Both he and Gabriel are called "great princes"; but Michael is higher in rank thanGabriel (Ber. 4b; Yoma 37a). He is the viceroy of God, who rules over the world (Enoch, lxix. 14 et seq.), and wherever Michael appears the Shekinah also is to be found (Ex. R. ii. 8). Michael is on the right of God's throne, while Gabriel is on the left ("Haggadat Shema' Yisrael," in Jellinek, l.c. v. 166; Targ. to Job xxv. 2; Enoch, xl. 9). Four armies of angels sing in praise of the Lord, the first being that of Michael at the right hand of God (Pirḳe R. El. iv.; "Hekalot," in Jellinek, l.c. ii. 43-44). A similar tradition is given in "Seder Gan 'Eden" (l.c. p. 138): Michael's place is by the first river, Pison, while Gabriel's is by the second, Gihon. It is Michael who, on account of his occupying the first place near God, receives the prayers of men from the angels and presents them to God (Baruch Apoc. Slavonic, xii.). His position makes him the companion of Meṭaṭron (Zohar, i. 149b)."
75.15.194.45 ( talk) 20:45, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Just out of idle curiosity, how did people first work out all these hierarchies and titles? PiCo ( talk) 13:41, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Where it says "Protestant denominations generally recognize only two archangels, Michael and Gabriel,"- I understand that Gabriel is mentioned in the Bible only as a messanger and not an archangel. Where does the reference to archangel come from? 213.44.68.21 ( talk) 18:31, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello History, yes, I see that. One question though, is the Eastern Orthodox view of Michael so much different than the Roman Catholic Church's? And even so, the way the section was before had BOTH, as you know now, and so why couldn't the section simply say both in the name? Or if not, why couldn't there now be a separate section of "Eastern Orthodoxy". There isn't any now. And really, there should be. If you want to make Roman Catholicism section alone, I do understand that actually. But wouldn't it be good and necessary now to at least have Eastern Orthodoxy with its own section in this article? I mean, it's a major church.
Hashem sfarim (
talk)
20:18, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
To Esoglou. Hi. If you notice, in this Michael Archangel article, there is no clear section for Eastern Orthodoxy. But for everything else there is, basically. Since you're very well-versed, it seems, in the differences between Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, and probably their views in the area of Michael also, I was wondering if you could maybe make a new section on the Michael article for Eastern Orthodoxy, since one is lacking. I'm sure RC and EO views on Michael are similar, but probably not 100% exactly the same. So I would think this Archangel Michael article warrants an EO section. What do you think? Regards. Hashem sfarim ( talk) 05:23, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Eastern Orthodox calls Michael the "Archistrategos", or "Supreme Commander of the Heavenly Hosts". [1] In line with this Eastern Orthodox interpretation, Michael first appears in the Old Testament in the book of Joshua's account of the fall of Jericho. Though Michael is not mentioned by name in the text, it is said that Joshua "looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand". When the still unaware Joshua asks which side of the fight the Archangel is on, Michael responds, "neither...but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come" ( Joshua 5:13–14) [2]
In the book of Daniel, Michael appears first to help the Archangel Gabriel defeat the Persians (10:13). In a later vision it is revealed to Daniel that "at that time [the end times] Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then..." (Ch. 12). Michael thus plays an important role as the protector of Israel and later of his chosen people, the Church.
The Church Fathers also ascribe to Michael the following events: During the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt he went before them in the form of a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night; the power of the great Chief Commander of God was manifest in the annihilation of the 185 thousand soldiers of the Assyrian emperor Sennacherib ( 2 Kings 19:35); also in the smiting of the impious leader Heliodorus ({{bibleverse|2|Maccabees|3:24-26); and in the protection of the Three Holy Youths: Ananias, Azarias and Misail, thrown into the fiery furnace for their refusal to worship an idol ( Daniel 3:22–25). Through the will of God, the Chief Commander Michael transported the Prophet Habbakuk from Judea to Babylon, to give food to Daniel in the lions' den ( Daniel 14:33–37). The Archangel Michael disputed with the devil over the body of the holy Prophet Moses ( Jude 1:9).
In later times, according to a story found in the Athonite Paterikon, and in the Life of St Neophytus of Docheiariou, Michael miraculously saved a young man cast into the sea by robbers with a stone about his neck on the shores of Mt Athos.
Perhaps his most famous miracle was saving the church at Colossae, which a number of pagans tried to destroy by diverting the flow of two rivers directly into its path. However, the Archangel appeared amongst the waters, and, carrying a cross, channeled the rivers underground so that the ground the church stood on would not be destroyed. The spring which came forth after this event is said to have special healing powers. [3]
Michael also has been associated with healing in other cases, as well as his primary role as leader of the Church Militant. He has been said to appear to Emperor Constantine the Great (d. 337) at Constantinople, to have intervened in assorted battles, and appeared, sword in hand, over the mausoleum of Hadrian, in apparent answer to the prayers of Pope St. Gregory I the Great (590-604) that a plague in Rome should cease.
Russians in particular have a special veneration to Michael, along with the Theotokos. According to OCA, "Intercession for Russian cities by the Most Holy Queen of Heaven always involved Her appearances with the Heavenly Hosts, under the leadership of the Archangel Michael. Grateful Rus acclaimed the Most Pure Mother of God and the Archangel Michael in church hymns. Many monasteries, cathedrals, court and merchant churches are dedicated to the Chief Commander Michael. In Rus there was not a city where there was not a church or chapel dedicated to the Archangel Michael."
There are three icons of the Archangel Michael in whose composition he is said to have personally intervened: Archangel Michael of Mantamados in Mytilene, Archangel Michael of Panormitis and Archangel Michael of Nenita. Each of these icons are different.
More typically, he is represented as the Chief Commander of the Heavenly hosts, holding a sword in one hand; in the other he often carries either a shield, a date-tree branch, a spear, or a white banner (possibly with a scarlet cross). Some icons show him holding an orb in one hand and a staff in the other. Inside the orb are often the superimposed Greek letters ΧΡ, the ChiRho symbol for Christ.
Michael is also represented in icons as standing on a horizontal body and with his left arm held high, holding a small image of a "baby". The body represents a human being at the time of his death and the image of the "baby" represents the soul of the deceased. This icon came about since the belief that the Archangel Michael takes the souls of the dead to heaven. This is typical of the miraculous and wonder-working Archangel Michael of Panormitis, in Symi of Greece.
In Russian iconography he is most likely to be wearing red. In many instances, Michael tramples the devil under his feet, which may be depicted as a dragon. This comes from the tradition that Michael was the main opponent of Satan in the battle for Heaven. Satan, previously called Samael, was always looking to discredit Israel, while Michael was its main protector. In the end, Satan attempted to drag Michael down in his fall from the heights, but Michael was rescued by God.
The place of Michael in the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria is comparable to that of the Virgin Mary. [4] He is seen as the one who presents to God the prayers of the just, who accompanies the souls of the dead to heaven, who defeats the devil. He is celebrated liturgically on the 12th of each month. In Alexandria, a church was dedicated to him in the early fourth century on the 12th of the month of Ba'unah. On the 12th of the month of Hatur is the celebration of Michael's investiture in heaven as a replacement for Satan, whereupon Michael became the chief of the angels.
The Eastern Orthodox material you added is actually enough for a new article, not a section. So I think we can turn what you entered here into an article, add a few more refs and then have a section here that points to it via a Main. I really like the iconography section and can get the icons for it- pretty nice section. The Coptic material will make a good section. Really nice addition Esoglou. Thanks. History2007 ( talk) 13:34, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
As I was cleaning up refs etc. it turned out that it was verbatim from a website, so would have been copyvio. The iconography was similar. I commented them out they it can be rewritten in different form and references. The text also referenced Daniel 14, but Daniel ends at 12, etc. Anyway, will need work later. History2007 ( talk) 03:17, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Can someone here please explain to us if www.wordpress.com is a WP:RS source? It is a blog site. Now http://scripturethoughts.wordpress.com is being used in the article as a source... History2007 ( talk) 18:45, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
I never cared what Spurgeon said, but I was not going to accept wordpres. It is not WP:RS. Now:
So just use WP:RS sources. That is all. History2007 ( talk) 19:16, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
websters-online-dictionary.org appears to use Wikipedia as a source. It seems not to be a good source for us to use. Tom Harrison Talk 21:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
All saints are human. Michael is an angel, not a human. Therefore Michael is not a saint. Many Christian churches venerate the angels and saints. Each is venerated in a way peculiar to its form; saints are venerated as saints; angels are venerated as angels. That both types may appear on lists as venerable is not to confuse their type; they are not consubstantial as it were. That Michael is sometimes called "Saint Michael" is not a sign of his saintliness or an indication of his humanity; it refers to his sanctity, his holiness; it is an etymological quirk, no more. No Vatican or other document can be produced to affirm that Michael is a saint in as much as any ordinary Christian human is a saint such as Saint Stephan. So he must be excluded from the saint categories. It's possible that a higher category is need such as "Saints and angelic beings venerated by Christians"; I'd be happy for Michael to be a member of such a category. But saints on its own - no. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 21:57, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Link was to silence, not science. And your reference refutes your own point, given that on page 27 it starts by saying: "indeed some angels are counted and celebrated among the saints". History2007 ( talk) 12:38, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Long and short of it is: "all saints are human" is false and you do not have a source that says that. History2007 ( talk) 22:02, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
I will attempt to be brief. The term "saint" derives from the Latin "sanctus" which in turn derives from the Greek "άγιος", meaning "holy". It is used very broadly by various denominations. In the instant context the following considerations might be helpful: First, a common definition is: A person officially recognized, especially by canonization, as being entitled to public veneration and capable of interceding for people on earth. (A secondary description mentions a person who has died and gone to heaven.) Second, Aquinas is clear that angels are part of the mystical body, they share with men the friendship of God, and with men are ordained to one end, His glory. In this they share in the transcendent idea of spiritual solidarity between all the children of God. Thirdly, there is Leo XIII's "Prayer to St. Michael", to which John Paul II referred in his Regina Coeli address of April 24, 1994. "Although this prayer is no longer recited at the end of Mass, I ask everyone not to forget it and to recite it to obtain help in the battle against the forces of darkness and against the evil spirits of this world." There is an Altar of St.Michael the Archangel in St. Peter's Basilica. [3]
Raphael, Gabriel, and Michael are invoked as saints since they have been introduced by name in scripture. The fact that angels and saints are occasionally listed separately insures the inclusion of all the unnamed Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, etc. Are angels created by, and therefore children of God? yes. Are they persons with intellect and will? yes. Are they worthy of veneration and capable of interceding for people? yes. Michael is a saint, at least apparently according to Rome. Pax vobiscum. Mannanan51 ( talk) 07:03, 26 November 2012 (UTC)Mannanan51
There is no evidence that either Michael or saints (except in the superficial figurative sense) actually exist. There is no definitive answer to this entirely subjective question. For the purposes of Wikipedia, the only content that can result from this discussion can be, essentially, "Source xyz says Michael is a saint. Source abc says he's not."-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 09:50, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Regarding your statement that: Firstly, angels are not "persons" try this link anyway, then you will know that theologically they are. It goes as far back as Augie at least. Mannanan's statement that "Are they persons with intellect and will? yes." is theologically completely correct. But this is really a discussion for the Angel page anyway. History2007 ( talk) 00:03, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
The same discussion has restarted here now on the top level category page. History2007 ( talk) 22:27, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
According to: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loa) St. Michael (archangel) has been syncretised into Hatian Vodou as a Loa spirit. In fact, the entry for "Loa" refers to this article on St. Micheal without going into any detail regarding "St. Micheal the Loa". As the majority of the Loa spirits mentioned on the wikipedia entry regarding Loa have links to their own pages, is there sufficient merit for adding a section regarding St. Micheal (archangel) within Vodou to the "Religious Traditions" section? St. Micheal is already associated with multiple religions in this section including Judiasm, Christianity, and Isalm. Furthermore Vodou is a very old faith and as of 2004 an estimated 60 million people or more practice voodoo worldwide ( http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0707_040707_tvtaboovoodoo.html). Since there are several people actively maintaining this page I thought it best simply to pose the question first and wait to see what happens.
50.99.43.77 ( talk) 08:05, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
The Historical Protestant and SDA section is poorly represented, as is the early 'fathers' and 'eastern' positions, and even the Roman Catholic views... needs to be updated.
Additions to be made/considered, Citations [the follwoing believed Michael Archangel to be pre-incarnate Word, Logos or Jesus]:
Charles Spurgeon [Baptist]
"Let the Lord Jesus Christ be for ever endeared to us, for through Him we are made to sit in heavenly places far above principalities and powers. He it is whose camp is round about them that fear Him; He is the true Michael whose foot is upon the dragon. All hail, Jesus! thou Angel of Jehovah’s presence, to Thee this family offers its morning vows." [Charles Spurgeon; Morning and Evening Daily Readings; page 556; Morning Devotion; October 3 on Hebrews 1:14] - http://www.heartlight.org/spurgeon/1003-am.html
"Michael will always fight; his holy soul is vexed with sin, and will not endure it. Jesus will always be the dragon’s foe, and that not in a quiet sense, but actively, vigorously, with full determination to exterminate evil." [Charles Spurgeon; Morning and Evening Daily Readings; page 673; Evening Devotion; November 30 on Revelaton 12:7] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/spurgeon/1130pm.htm
John Gill [English Baptist Scholar]
"Another prophecy in Dan. xii. 1, 2, 3. represents the second and personal coming of Christ ; for he is meant by Michael, who is as God, as his name signifies, equal to him ; the great prince, the prince of the kings of the earth, and the head of all principalities and powers." [A Complete Body of Practical and Doctrinal Divinity, The Baptist Standard Bearer, 1987 reprint, page 617; or A Body of Doctrinal Divinity; Book 7—Chapter 5; Of the Second Coming of Christ, and His Personal Appearance; section 1b2] - http://pbministries.org/books/gill/Doctrinal_Divinity/Book_7/book7_05.htm
"Yet Michael the archangel, &c. By whom is meant, not a created angel, but an eternal one, the Lord Jesus Christ; as appears from his name Michael, which signifies, "who is as God": and who is as God, or like unto him, but the Son of God, who is equal with God? and from his character as the archangel, or Prince of angels, for Christ is the head of all principality and power; and from what is elsewhere said of Michael, as that he is the great Prince, and on the side of the people of God, and to have angels under him, and at his command, Dan. 10:21, 12:1; Revelation 12:7. So Philo the Jew {o} calls the most ancient Word, firstborn of God, the archangel. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Jude verse 9] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/jude/gill/jude1.htm
"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon: by whom is meant not a created angel, with whom his name does not agree, it signifying "who is as God"; nor does it appear that there is anyone created angel that presides over the rest, and has them at his command. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Revelation 12:7] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/revelation/gill/revelation12.htm
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, &c. The Archangel, who has all the angels of heaven under him, and at his command, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ; who is as God, as the name signifies, truly and really God, and equal in nature, power, and glory, to his divine Father. ..." [John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible; Daniel 12:1] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/gill/daniel12.htm
Jonathan Edwards [Congregational; Theologian]
"When Lucifer rebelled and set up himself as a head in opposition to God and Christ, and set himself as a head in opposition to God and Christ, and drew away a great number of angels, the Son of God, manifested himself as an opposite head, and appeared graciously to dissuade and restrain by his grace the elect angels from hearkening to Lucifer’s temptation, so that they were upheld and preserved eternal destruction at this time of great danger by the free and sovereign distinguishing grace of Christ. Herein Christ was the Saviour of the elect angels, for thought he did not save them as he did elect men from the ruin they had already deserved, and were condemned to, and the miserable, state they were already in, yet he saved them from eternal destruction they were in great danger of, and otherwise would have fallen into with the other angels. The elect angels joined with him, the glorious Michael, as their captain, while the other angels hearkened to Lucifer and joined him, and then was that literally true that fulfilled afterwards figuratively. Revelation xii. “When there was war in heaven : Michael and his angels fought against the dragon ; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not ; neither was there place found any more heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world ; he was case out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”" [The Works of Jonathan Edwards, Volume 2, Banner of Truth, 1979 reprint, page 606] - http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/works2.xii.i.html
Matthew Henry [English Bible Commentator; Presbyterian Minister]
"Daniel 12:1 Vs. 1-4: Michael signifies, "Who is like God," and his name, with the title of "the great Prince," points out the Divine Savior. Christ stood for the children of our people in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the curse for them, to bear it from them. He stands for them in pleading for them at the throne of grace. And after the destruction of antichrist, the Lord Jesus shall stand at the latter day upon the earth; and He shall appear for the complete redemption of all his people." [Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary; Daniel 12:1] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/mhc/daniel12.htm
"Michael and his angels fight against the devil and his angels, who are defeated. (7-12). . . .Revelation 12:7 Vs. 7-11: The attempts of the dragon proved unsuccessful against the church, and fatal to his own interests. The seat of this war was in heaven; in the church of Christ, the kingdom of heaven on earth. The parties were Christ, the great Angel of the covenant, and his faithful followers; and Satan and his instruments." [Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary; Daniel 12:7] - http://mhc.biblecommenter.com/revelation/12.htm
"I. Jesus Christ shall appear his church's patron and protector: At that time, when the persecution is at the hottest, Michael shall stand up, v. 1. The angel had told Daniel what a firm friend Michael was to the church, ch. 10:21. He all along showed this friendship in the upper world; the angels knew it; but now Michael shall stand up in his providence, and work deliverance for the Jews, when he sees that their power is gone, Deu. 32:3. 6. Christ is that great prince, for he is the prince of the kings of the earth, Revelation 1:5. And, if he stand up for his church, who can be against it? But this is not all: At that time (that is, soon after) Michael shall stand up for the working out of our eternal salvation; the Son of God shall be incarnate, shall be manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Christ stood for the children of our people when he was made sin and a curse for them, stood in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the cure for them, to bear it from them. He stands for them in the intercession he ever lives to make within the veil, stands up for them, and stands their friend. And after the destruction of antichrist, of whom Antiochus was a type, Christ shall stand at the latter day upon the earth, shall appear for the complete redemption of all his." [Matthew Henry's Complete Commentary; Daniel 12 verse 1-4] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/mh/daniel12.htm
1599 Geneva Study Bible
"5:14 And he said, Nay; but [as] captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and {g} did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? (g) In that Joshua worships him, he acknowledges him to be God: and in that he calls himself the Lord's captain he declares himself to be Christ." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Joshua 5:14] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbnjoshua.htm
"Even though God could by one angel destroy all the world, yet to assure his children of his love he sends forth double power, even Michael, that is, Christ Jesus the head of angels." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Daniel 10:13] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbndaniel.htm
"10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: {q} and [there is] none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. (q) For this angel [Gabriel] was appointed for the defence of the Church under Christ, who is the head of it." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Daniel 10:21] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbndaniel.htm
"The angel here notes two things: first that the Church will be in great affliction and trouble at Christ's coming, and next that God will send his angel to deliver it, whom he here calls Michael, meaning Christ, who is proclaimed by the preaching of the Gospel." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Daniel 12:1] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbndaniel.htm
"(14) Christ is the Prince of angels and head of the Church, who bears that iron rod Re 12:5 . Also see Geneva "Da 12:1". In this verse a description of the battle and of the victory in the two verses following Re 12:8,9 . The psalmist noted this battle as did Paul; Ps 68:9 Eph 4:8 Co 2:15 ." [1599 Geneva Study Bible; Footnote for Revelation 12:7] - http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/gbnrevelation.htm
John Calvin ['The' Calvinist]
"... As we stated yesterday, Michael may mean an angel; but I embrace the opinion of those who refer this to the person of Christ, because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people. ..." [John Calvin; Commentary On Daniel; Volume 2; Lecture Sixty-Five [65]] - http://christianbookshelf.org/calvin/commentary_on_daniel_volume_2/lecture_sixty-five_.htm
John Wesley ['The' Methodist]
"Verse 14. As captain - I am the chief captain of this people, and will conduct and assist thee and them in this great undertaking. Now this person is not a created angel, but the son of God, who went along with the Israelites in this expedition, as their chief and captain. And this appears,
1. By his acceptance of adoration here, which a created angel durst not admit of, Revelation xxii, 8, 9.
2. Because the place was made holy by his presence, ver. 15, which was God's prerogative, Exod. iii, 5.
3. Because he is called the Lord, Hebrew. Jehovah, chap. vi, 2. My Lord - I acknowledge thee for my Lord and captain, and therefore wait for thy commands, which I am ready to obey." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Joshua 5:14] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/joshua/wesley/joshua5.htm
"10:5 A certain man - Very probably Christ, who appeared to Daniel in royal and priestly robes, and in so great brightness and majesty." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Daniel 10:5] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/wesley/daniel10.htm
"10:13 Michael - Michael here is commonly supposed to mean Christ. I remained - To counter - work their designs against the people of God." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Daniel 10:13] - John Wesley's Notes on the Bible
"10:21 Michael - Christ alone is the protector of his church, when all the princes of the earth desert or oppose it." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Daniel 10:21] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/wesley/daniel10.htm
"...so there will be yet a greater deliverance to the people of God, when Michael your prince, the Messiah shall appear for your salvation. ... The phrase at that time, probably includes all the time of Christ, from his first, to his last coming." [John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Daniel 12:1] - http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/daniel/wesley/daniel12.htm
Brown's Dictionary Of The Holy Bible [partially recognizes; Calvinist]
"MICHAEL, the archangel, at least sometimes signifies Jesus Christ. He is the person who is as God, and which this name signifies; against him and his angels, his ministers and followers, the devil, and the heathen empire of Rome, and their agents, fought in the way of reproach, laws, persecutions, &c. Revelation xii. 7. He is the great Prince ..., who,...shall raise the dead, Dan. xii. 1,2,3 ..." [Revelation John Brown's Dictionary of The Bible; page 95 "MIC-MID"; heading "Michael"] - http://books.google.com/books?id=V31AAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
James Wood Dictionary Of The Holy Bible [aka: Wood's Spiritual Dictionary; Methodist]
"MICHAEL, the archangel, at least sometimes signifies Jesus Christ. He is the person who is as God, and which this name signifies: against him and his angels, his ministers and followers, the devil, and the heathen empire of Rome, and their agents, fought in the way of reproach, laws, persecutions, &c. Revelation xii. 7. He is the great Prince ..., who,...shall raise the dead, Dan. xii. 1,2,3 ..." [James Wood Dictionary Of The Bible; Volume 2; page 165 "MIC-MIC" - page 166 "MIC-MID"; heading "Michael"] - http://books.google.com/books?id=Uzc8AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Ernst Wilhelm Hengstenberg [Lutheran; Dr. and Prof. Of Theology, Berlin]
"Michael is not mentioned again, after chap. x. 21, until chap. xii. 1, where it is said, "at that time shall Michael stand, the great prince, which standeth for the children of thy people." "The great prince" (equivalent to the King of kings in the Revelation), serves as the complement to "one of the chief princes." The rescue of Israel is here ascribed to Michael alone, and the subordinate task of Gabriel entirely vanishes. Bertholt supplies, in an arbitrary manner, "against the guardian spirit of the Graeco-Syrian kingdom." Michael has to deal directly with the imperial power. The personification is dropped, as a proof that it has no reality.
The two passages in the New Testament, in which Michael is mentioned, serve to confirm the result already arrived at. That the Michael referred to in Revelation xii. 7 is no other than the Logos, has already been proved in my commentary upon that passage..." [Christology Of The Old Testament And A Commentary On The Messianic Predictions; Appendix iii; page 304 and onward] - http://books.google.com/books?id=lFJGAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Thomas Scott [Anglican; Priest]
"Daniel 12 Verse 1: Michael signifies, Who is like God? And this name, with the title of “the great Prince, which standeth for the children of thy people,” most clearly points out the divine Saviour; and cannot properly be understood of a created angel." [Thomas Scott [Anglican Priest; founder of the Church Missionary Society]; The Holy Bible Containing The Old And New Testaments, According To The Authorized Version, With Explanatory Notes, Pracitcal Observations And Copious Marginal References; Notes - Daniel Chapter XII. V. 1.; page 839] - http://books.google.com/books?id=drFUAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Thomas Haweis [Church Of England, Anglican]
"Daniel 12:1. Christ, the great Prince, shall stand up in the time of great tribulation, ... or at the great day when he shall come to complete the redemption of his people, and to execute final vengeance on their enemies, when all that are written among the righteous, and found in the book of life of the Lamb, shall be delivered from the power of evil for ever." [Thomas Haweis; The Evangelical Expositor, A Commentary On The Holy Bible; Daniel 12:1] - http://books.google.com/books?id=Q6BTYAAACAAJ&dq=Thomas+Haweis;+The+Evangelical+Expositor,+A+Commentary+On+The+Holy+Bible&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UlHyUNf2G8H9igLWxoHADg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA see: http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/2010/02/non-adventist-sources-confirming.html
Adam Clarke's Commentary [Methodist; Theologian]
"Michael, he who is like God, sometimes appears to signify the Messiah, at other times the highest or chief archangel. Indeed there is no archangel mentioned in the whole Scripture but this one. See Jude 1:9; Revelation 12:7." [Adam Clarke's Commentary; The Holy Bible Containing The Old And New Testaments: The Text Printed From The Most Correct Copies Of The Present Authorized Translation, Including The Marginal Readings And Parallel Texts, With A Commentary And Critical Notes. Designed As A Help To A Better Understanding Of The Sacred Writings, Volume IV [4]; Daniel 10; page 343] - http://books.google.com/books?id=KoVUAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Notes on [Zechariah] Chapter III. Verse I. And he shewed me Joshua the Highpriest] The Angel of the Lord is the Messiah, as we have seen before ..." [Adam Clarke's Commentary; The Holy Bible Containing The Old And New Testaments: The Text Printed From The Most Correct Copies Of The Present Authorized Translation, Including The Marginal Readings And Parallel Texts, With A Commentary And Critical Notes. Designed As A Help To A Better Understanding Of The Sacred Writings, Volume IV [4]; Zechariah 3:1; page 499] - http://books.google.com/books?id=KoVUAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Verse 9. Yet Michael the archangel Of this personage many things are spoken in the Jewish writings "Rabbi Judah Hakkodesh says: Wherever Michael is said to appear, the glory of the Divine Majesty is always to be understood." Shemoth Rabba, sec. ii., fol. 104,3. So that it seems as if they considered Michael in some sort as we do the Messiah manifested in the flesh."
"Let it be observed that the word archangel is never found in the plural number in the sacred writings. There can be properly only one archangel, one chief or head of all the angelic host. Nor is the word devil, as applied to the great enemy of mankind, ever found in the plural; there can be but one monarch of all fallen spirits. Michael is this archangel, and head of all the angelic orders; the devil, great dragon, or Satan, is head of all the diabolic orders. When these two hosts are opposed to each other they are said to act under these two chiefs, as leaders; hence in Revelation 12:7, it is said: MICHAEL and his angels fought against the DRAGON and his angels. The word Michael seems to be compounded of mi, who, ke, like, and El, God; he who is like God; hence by this personage, in the Apocalypse, many understand the Lord Jesus." [Adam Clarke's Commentary; Jude 9] - http://clarke.biblecommenter.com/jude/1.htm
"Michael was the man-child which the woman brought forth, as is evident from the context; ... ... Michael, he is "the great prince which standeth for the children of God's people." Dan. xii. 1." [Adam Clarke's Commentary; The Holy Bible Containing The Old And New Testaments: The Text Printed From The Most Correct Copies Of The Present Authorized Translation, Including The Marginal Readings And Parallel Texts, With A Commentary And Critical Notes. Designed As A Help To A Better Understanding Of The Sacred Writings, Volume VI [6]; Revelation 12:7; page 927;] - http://books.google.com/books?id=E-A8AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Abingdon Bible Commentary
"The idea of the heavenly being who thus comes to view as a feature in old apocalyptic tradition is the source of the conception of the heavenly Messiah—the Son of Man. . . . We have already seen that the heavenly being 'like unto a son of man' of Dan. 7 was probably identified by the author . . . with Israel's angel—prince Michael; this angelic being was later, it would seem, invested with Messianic attributes, and so became the pre-existent heavenly Messiah." [Frederick Carl Eiselen; Edwin Lewis; David G. Downey; Abingdon Bible Commentary; page 846 [first link to mere book]; [also see; The Ezra-Apocalypse; page 284 [second link]] - http://books.google.com/books?id=TpsQz8m5RbcC&q=We+have+already+seen+that+the+heavenly+being+%27like+unto+a+son+of+man%27+of+Dan.+7+was+probably+identified+by+the+author&dq=We+have+already+seen+that+the+heavenly+being+%27like+unto+a+son+of+man%27+of+Dan.+7+was+probably+identified+by+the+author&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MlLyUJHIBOSDjAKjqYCICg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA and see http://books.google.com/books?id=9MUUAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Lange's Commentary [Johann Peter Lange; German Calvinist]
"We have shown elsewhere that the Archangel Michael is an image of Christ victoriously combatant. Christ is an Archangel in His quality of judge; and He appears as judge, not only at the end of the world, but also in the preservation of the purity of His Church." [Johann Peter Lange; Lange's Commentary; A Commentary Of The Holy Scriptures: Critical, Doctrinal And Homiletical, With Special Reference To Ministers And Students; page 238; Revelation 12:1-12] - http://books.google.com/books?id=g5tBAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Wikipedia [The Free Online Encyclopedia]
"Some early Protestant scholars identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, basing their view, partly on the juxtaposition of the "child" and the archangel in Revelation 12, and partly on the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel. [38]"
"[38] John A. Lees, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1930, Vol. 3, page 2048" [Wikipedia; Michael (archangel)] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_%28archangel%29#Early_Protestant_views
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia [comment by John A. Lees]
"The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the "child" and the archangel in Revelation 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel." - John A. Lees" [International Standard Bible Encyclopedia; comment by John A. Lees; section "Michael"] - www.bible-history.com/isbe/M/MICHAEL/
Vine's Expository Dictionary [William Edwy Vine]
"[* From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, pp. 142.] In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 the meaning seems to be that the voice of the Lord Jesus will be of the character of an "archangelic" shout"" [William Edwy Vine; Vine's Expository Dictionary; section "archangel"] - http://studybible.info/vines/Archangel
James Glasgow D.D. [Irish General Assembly's Professor Of Oriental Languages]
"This being 'a war in the heaven,' and waged by Michael, who is Christ (whose warfare is not like that of earthly kings), and by His messengers, is an intellectual and polemical warfare." [James Glasgow, D.D. Irish General Assembly's Professor Of Oriental Languages, Late Fellow Of The University Of Bombay, And Late Member Of The Royal Asiatic Society, Bombay; The Apocalypse; page 334, on Revelation 12:7] - http://books.google.com/books?id=cFFKAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia, Section “M”, subsection “St. Michael the Archangel” -
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10275b.htm
"... We have had occasion to mention the Septuagint version more than once, and it may not be amiss to indicate a few passages where it is our only source of information regarding the angels. The best known passage is Isaiah 9:6, where the Septuagint gives the name of the Messias, as "the Angel of great Counsel". ...
... The Massoretic text as well as the Vulgate of Exodus 3 and 19-20 clearly represent the Supreme Being as appearing to Moses in the bush and on Mount Sinai; ... The person of "the angel of the Lord" finds a counterpart in the personification of Wisdom in the Sapiential books and in at least one passage (Zechariah 3:1) it seems to stand for that "Son of Man" whom Daniel (7:13) saw brought before "the Ancient of Days". Zacharias says: "And the Lord showed me Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan stood on His right hand to be His adversary". Tertullian regards many of these passages as preludes to the Incarnation; as the Word of God adumbrating the sublime character in which He is one day to reveal Himself to men (cf. Against Praxeas 16; Against Marcion 2.27, 3.9, 1.10, 1.21-22). ... The earlier Fathers, going by the letter of the text, maintained that it was actually God Himself who appeared. He who appeared was called God and acted as God. It was not unnatural then for Tertullian, as we have already seen, to regard such manifestations in the light of preludes to the Incarnation, and most of the Eastern Fathers followed the same line of thought. It was held as recently as 1851 by Vandenbroeck, "Dissertatio Theologica de Theophaniis sub Veteri Testamento" (Louvain).
... St. Augustine (Sermo vii, de Scripturis, P.G. V) when treating of the burning bush (Exodus 3) says: "... . . . Some maintain that he is called both the Lord and the angel of the Lord because he was Christ, indeed the prophet (Isaiah 9:6, Septuagint Version) clearly styles Christ the 'Angel of great Counsel.'" The saint proceeds to show that such a view is tenable though we must be careful not to fall into Arianism in stating it. ...
... As an instance of how convinced some of the Fathers were in holding ..., we may note Theodoret's words (In Exod.): "The whole passage (Exodus 3) shows that it was God who appeared to him. But (Moses) called Him an angel in order to let us know that it was not God the Father whom he saw — for whose angel could the Father be? — but the Only-begotten Son, the Angel of great Counsel" (cf. Eusebius, Church History I.2.7; St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3:6). ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Section "A", subsection "Angels", part "The term "angel" in the Septuagint"] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm
There are also other "catholic" quotations as well, Irenaeus, Clement Of Alexandria, Justin Martyr, Eusebius Pamphili, Tertullian, and eastern fathers as noted by the Roman Catholic Online Encyclopdia, etc all who also add to the historical positions, see also http://biblelight.net/michael.htm
The Seventh Day Adventist position, being the Historical Biblical position, is also severly in need of updating, as earlier given.
Facts are facts, and quoted, documented and cited facts even more so.
75.42.69.46 ( talk) 05:56, 7 February 2013 (UTC) AWHN www.pearltrees.com/awhn http://awhn.webs.com/jesusinbookofdaniel.htm
Why would the user's presentation of solid information on Michael be removed and reverted from the "talk" section? The sources are well given, the citations are clear without prejudice or manipulation, and the links valid to those sources. The catholics (eastern and western), and the protestants, and other, seem to have a lot more to say in regards to this subject than the article currently shares. The article itself seems lacking in any real historical citations or depth on the subject and instead is heavily swayed towards iconography, worship of saints and traditional belief from sources other than the Bible.
The Seventh-day Adventists section is now larger than all other denominations, and runs against WP:Due given that they are a small denomination and can not over run the others in terms of real estate. There is a main link anyway. The IPs seem persistent and relentless. Unless they stop, the page will need will need Pending Changes. History2007 ( talk) 12:50, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm not a seventh day Adventist but it seems a shame to remove information simply due to other sections being too small. If there is more about him, in context of other religions, that should be mentioned that wouldn't it be better to add to the other sections? Also if there is more information listed in this particular section than in others couldn't it mean he is just more important to that group than it is to the other so size of the Adventist may be an unimportant factor.-- Drewder ( talk) 03:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
An anonymous editor (most recently as 24.79.38.15 ( talk · contribs)) has twice made claims about JW beliefs that are not found in JW publications, apparently not understanding the actual JW belief on the matter. I have again removed the claim.
Specifically, the editor added the claim, They also reason that when Jesus is says [sic] in Book of Revelation 3:12, "the one that conquers" he will write "that new name of mine" he must have had another name to replace. [4] However, what JW literature actually says about their own belief about the 'new name' at Revelation 3:12 is: Finally, anointed overcomers have written on them Jesus’ new name. This refers to Jesus’ new office and the unique privileges granted to him by Jehovah. (Philippians 2:9-11; Revelation 19:12) No one else gets to know that name, in the sense that no one else has those experiences or is entrusted with those privileges. (Revelation—Its Grand Climax at Hand, page 65; bold added).
Thus, JWs do not believe that "new name" refers to Michael.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 03:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
According to an exlanatory footnote I have read for Milton's Lycidas Michael is patron saint of England (alongside St. George of course)if that is true it should be noted, can anyone confirm its veracity? Hawjam ( talk) 04:37, 29 June 2013 (UTC)Hawjam