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the new mexican government 2006 -2012 are using this coat ( http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Escudo_Mexico_2009.jpg) the coat used in this article is old.. thank you.
A section about Mexican craftwork/handicrafts/folk art is missing.-- correogsk ( talk) 20:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
awesome —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
124.186.242.60 (
talk)
08:47, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
A user is adding the unofficial figures of race in the main infobox template. I think this should be discussed first (and in fact, I think it was already discussed and the result was not to include those in the infobox) because the Mexican government does not keep record about the "race" of its citizens.
Some of the country articles that have this information in the main infobox is mainly because the correspondent national census agencies officially ask about race. Also, there is the fact that these figures greatly vary between the unofficial sources, and that there is no secure definition about who should be considered mestizo, or "predominantly european" or "predominalty amerindian", or "pure amerindian". Those definitions are far from being well defined.
However, any change as drastical/controversial as this one should be discussed first. Thanks. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 06:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
It's true that the Mexican census doesn't record "race" anymore, but in these days of the genetic revolution, ancestry and mixture are being revealed more and more. I just added a bit on the ongoing Mexican genome project which has already produced a significant report on its research. Since the census stopped tracking "race" back in the 1920s, demographers had been forced to use extrapolations, reasoned assumptions and limited self-reporting. Surprisingly, this early genome report closely corresponds to many of those pre-genomic studies. More to come for sure. Tmangray ( talk) 20:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
As far as I'm aware there are no bullet trains in Mexico... yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luiseargote ( talk • contribs) 10:08, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
There is other nationalities its not just american, asian, African, and Mexican. There's many more spanish races theres Puerto Rican, Peruvian, Columbian, Ecuadorian, Venezuelen, Brazilian, and many more so dont just call a spanish person Mexican because their are other kinds of Spanish nationalities. So remember its not just Mexican. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lola815 ( talk • contribs) 19:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
"In 2009 Mexico was the creator of the new disease commonly referred to as the "swine flu". This spread to many different country's and has lead to the infection of hundreds of people."
This is factually incorrect, unless there is some evidence that "swine flu" was actually created and not the result of a natural mutation. It might be said that the "swine flu" virus originated in Mexico in 2009. Also, it is not "country's" but "countries." A better way to phrase it would be: "This spread to many different countries, infecting hundreds of people."
Ydigernes ( talk) 20:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
As a native Spanish speaker, it strikes me as a very odd translation—I believe Mexican United States is more accurate, given that in the Spanish name, Estados Unidos Mexicanos, "Mexicanos" modifies "Estados Unidos." In my opinion, the translation should reflect that (i.e., Mexican should modify United States, instead of United modifying Mexican States, which would translate "Estados Mexicanos Unidos" in Spanish). I have googled both terms and found that United Mexican States is three times as popular as Mexican United States, so what I want to ask is, why is United Mexican States used, instead of a more accurate Mexican United States? Is it for convenience, so that there are no confusions with the United States of America, or is there a reason, a source, an official document, or anything that has instigated the use of UMS instead of MUS?-- 66.229.214.176 ( talk) 23:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
. "United Mexican States" makes a lot more sense. It's the same as "United Arab Emirates" not "Arab United Emirates. "United Mexican States" is the correct adverb/adjective order. Let's leave it at that. - Quimbero 02:41, 18 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.79.9.129 ( talk)
This discussion has been posted many times but then deleted again after a while. I also think that the correct translation is Mexican United States. Considering that the first documents even speak of Estados-unidos Mexicanos (Mexican United-states), both words shouldn't just be separated by an adjective which refers to both of them. Nevertheless, the official form in English is United Mexican States, independently if it is a real literal translation or not. The only possible reason for this is to avoid confusion with the United States. This is of course justified but it is also part of a very interesting sociolinguistic phenomenon of the USA. Here you will find lots of examples of name shortenings with which national origins simply disappear:
Aldera ( talk) 17:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
All of your opinions are nice, but all official documents in English nowadays say, "United Mexican States". Look at the government websites in Mexico translated into English and it'll say "United Mexican States". The immigration forms when you first arrive at airports in Mexico say, "United Mexican States". My passport (I am indeed Mexican) says "United Mexican States" in the English translation. It will stay as "United Mexicans States". 76.79.9.129 ( talk) 18:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone help find sources for Denmark–Mexico relations. Anyone that can look through Spanish sources would be helpful. -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) ( talk) 14:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}}
There is a mistake on the Administrative Divisions of Mexico table. Hermosillo is the capital of Sonora not Tepic.
Hello. I've noticed that the article has too many images of private, for-profit corporations that might be silently taking advantage of the high traffic and exposure of wikipedia.
To be the clearest possible: An image on wikipedia provides hundreds of thousands (maybe even millions) of displays. While it is legitimate to be looking for a specific company on wikipedia, commercial images in this article seem to be out of scope and constitute a very effective free ad.
I hereby propose to replace/subsitute/delete the following images:
Economy::Bombardier_Global_5000.jpg ---> wikiad on the image foot. Would embraer be happy?
Economy::PueblaAssembly.jpg ---> wikiad on the image foot. GM and Nissan would love to have this exposure.
Sports::Estadio_de_beisbol_en_Monterrey.jpg---> wikiad on the image foot. Other baseball teams under-represented.
Economy::Transportation::Aeromexico_*.jpg ---> wikiad on the whole image. Mexicana is ranting.
Economy::Transportation::Telmexstore.jpg ---> wikiad on the whole image. Not good for competition.
HealthCare::Mexicohospital.jpg ---> wikiad on the whole image. Other private hospitals are not happy!
These images should be replaced with others commercially-neutral content. The first three might just require a new image foot.
I've started to fix this by deleting the image of a drone "developed by hydra-technologies", which was the most obvious wikiad. Hope we can all agree on this effort to improve the article. Regards to all editors! Cerealito ( talk) 09:24, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm opening a new discussion regarding this issue, the term Middle America exists and is used in some publications to describe Mexico's location however compared with the term North America is definitely not as widely used, not to mention that more than half the links about MA refer to the middle class in the United States, therefore I think that the undue weight of the term has to be made clear in the paragraph, because the way it is currently implies that both terms are equally used which are not, here there is a list of how some publications describe Mexico and North America, please notice the lack of the use of the term MA, [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. Supaman89 ( talk) 21:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Even though I waited a couple of days to answer it’s interesting to see that your only contributions to Wikipedia have been done precisely in this section (and quite fast by the way, almost like you were waiting)… anyway, if one argues that there needs to be a text explicitly stating the word “rarely” for it to be true, then one could also argue that there needs to be a text also stating that it is “not rarely” used, in other words common facts (like that whales can’t fly) are obvious to be true (I wouldn’t ask for a text stating “whales can’t fly” to know it’s true) in the same way it’s a fact that North America is the common term and that Middle America (which is mostly used for the middle class in the United States) is not that widely used, all that needs to be done is to clarify the undue weight in the proper section, Corticopia. Supaman89 ( talk) 22:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I am "American" as in U.S. American (Norteamericano), and I have always been taught that Mexico is geographically a part of North America but culturally and socially a part of Latin America. Likewise, I have conferred with an excyclopedia and there are indeed 7 continents of the world-- Asia, Europe, Africa, Antartica, Australia, North America, and South America. Why is North America consisdered its own continent? The reason is because it has its own geogrpahical plate as a land mass, on the North American plate.
Mexico is in North America. And that is final. -- 74.47.100.150 ( talk) 23:16, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
As a Mexican immigrant in the United States, I think it would be ideal if North Americans viewed Mexico as a North American country, while Mexicans viewed their country as Central American. The reason for this belief is that it pains me to see Mexicans clamoring for admission into a "club" that just won't have them. In short, I think the classification of Mexico as part of North America should probably remain intact, at least in the English-language Wikipedia article. (And here I must digress:) Otherwise, I am not a major fan of Mexico's cozy association with the United States, but I do realize that it stems from geographic reality and pressing economic necessity. As a way to offset this unpleasant state of affairs, I think it is essential that Mexico publicly but nonchalantly look toward the south and embrace its Latin American heritage, while still maintaining cordial relations with its northern neighbor. Above all, it is essential to pursue closer relations with the Central American nations, which are historically close to Mexico and whose people generally lack that non-so-subtle racism toward the Amerindian race that characterizes too many blowhards from certain other Latin American countries. (For an example of this barely-concealed racism, turn to the discussion page of the "Latin America" article and look under the headings labeled "white" or some variation thereof. Truly, there is more racism toward Mexicans in those pages--written by other Latin American authors--than I have ever seen in twenty years of living in the United States.) In any case, keep Mexico in North America, por favor. -- Namenderkrieg ( talk) 23:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
I have tried to trim this article down bit by bit with clear explanations, but in one edit I have been reverted like a common vandal. I am entitled to a better explanation than "I understand you're trying to trim it, but...":
Green Giant ( talk) 20:24, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
According to the CIA Work Factbook, Mexico's GDP (PPP) is 1,559 trillion in 2008 so why is it constantly being changed back to billion? Like a country of that size could survive off that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielg77017 ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
The very opening of the economy section in the article contains a contradiction in terms: "Mexico has a free market mixed economy...". See it? Free Market, and mixed economies are different economic systems, the terms are mutually exclusive. The term mixed economy was coined to refer to those economic systems with a market structure and significant levels of state direction (Like Mexico, the U.S. and almost every country). I suggest the sentence I reference be changed to "Mexico has a mixed economy...".
Nothing against Mexico but the prevalence of government enforced monopolies, state ownership, the often weak rule of law, and long history of tariffs and price controls are a far cry from the system Adam Smith described. Indeed few countries are true free markets, probably only Hong Kong and Singapore come close. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.183.143.163 ( talk) 19:57, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
In the side bar containing quick facts about the Mexican economy, it claims that Brazil accounts for 30.1% and Chile account for 9.3% of Mexican imports. I checked the CIA Factbook source cited below, and these numbers are not at all consistent with the source cited. This needs to be corrected. For an academic project I am looking at OECD numbers on Mexican imports, and what I have found is consistent with the CIA Factbook numbers, and are wildly different than the numbers currently being shown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.101.159.82 ( talk) 22:10, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh, hey, did anyone look at the chart of Income of Mexican Citizen in US dollars? Did you noticed it was unsourced, except for the person who uploaded it and gleefully admitted that they did it themselves? Are those numbers correct? If they are, they're quite surprising (and don't match the figures in the article!) 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC). 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)! 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)# 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC). 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)% 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Although in a few documents, the correct translation of Estados Unidos Mexicanos in English should be Mexican United States rather than United Mexican States. You may find references here:
The constitution in English by a research institute at UNAM: http://www.juridicas.unam.mx/infjur/leg/constmex/pdf/consting.pdf
An article about its armed forces: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Armed_Forces
I hope it helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jnjnjn ( talk • contribs) 08:22, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Hello. According to INEGI and Conapo, the Mexican population reaches 107.5 million. You can look at http://www.inegi.org.mx/inegi/contenidos/espanol/prensa/contenidos/estadisticas/2009/poblacion09.asp?s=inegi&c=2734&ep=18 or at http://www.conapo.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=125&Itemid=193 (select "Républica Mexicana" and click on "Ver").-- Youssef ( talk) 08:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC) -- Youssef ( talk) 09:04, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Where is the proof that a majority of Mexicans are 'mestizo', i find that very unlikly. According to the TIMES COMPLETE HISTORY OF THE WORLD they have an ethnic chart done shortly after independance of the latin american states which shows Mexico ( and others ) has more indians than Mestizos and whites all together! I think whats happening is people are confusing mixed culture with mixed race, i mean in England our language is halve french but were not called Anglofrench people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.170.148 ( talk) 11:24, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Thats nonsense. Firstly Mexicos population was only 6 million at independance so the notion that it shrunk to 14 million is completly wrong, secondly 80% of its population killed? where did you read that. If that were true it would the worst genocide in history. Also ive never seen a blond haired blue eyed Mexican before, alot of dark skinned dark eyed Mexicans but never nordic looking ones! I think the Mexican mestizo thing is alot like the turkish were seljuk belief and generally a myth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.215.229 ( talk) 12:22, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes but can you prove it? The only colonial charts i have seen sho indians at about 70% and the rest evenly divided between mixed bloods and whites. Are you saying all the indians disappeared. Anyone mixing ith that number ould soon be absorbed. I dont get why SOME Mexicans are so scared of being indian i mean do you think we whites are better or something and you want to be us? because you wrong! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.215.229 ( talk) 17:39, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Supaman89 ( talk) 19:18, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Look at more recent data like -Britanica has it at about 16% White, 16% Indian, and about 68% Mestizo, The CIA of the USA has it at 60% Mestizo, Amerindain or predominantly Amerindian (Mestizo still) 30%, White 9%. Check out this more me and tell me what you think Mennonites in Mexico Jesusmariajalisco ( talk) 18:28, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Just because they say that do not make it correct. They are simply going with the flow, the point im making is that no proper genetic test has ever been done(like those done in many other countries including mine) and it is only assumed latin americans are mixed race. In many ways its just political correctness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.215.229 ( talk) 18:50, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
View this site, its a government based genetic study about the population, read it, study it, then get back to us. http://www.inmegen.gob.mx/ Jesusmariajalisco ( talk) 19:35, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
That Mexican population is manly Mestizo which means Amerindians are Mixed with Europeans, Doesn't exactly means that we are mixed with Albino whites, The Europeans We are mixed with are Spaniards which tend to be more dark or/and short in comparison with other Europeans(British, Scandinavians etc.). So although some of the statement that we are manly Mesticos is awkward for US Americans is only a matter of looking up Who are we manly mixed with. Besides for the US Americans that have never been to a largest cities in Mexico will find that We DO have some white people; that they tend to come from wealthier families in Mexico, and wealthy Mexicans do not tend to immigrate to the US in vast numbers as other Mexicans do, well you just need to travel to the actual country to more accurately describe the people from there( because even if you see a white Mexican on the US you will probably think he is just other American, and will never notice him). Also the CIA WORLD FACT BOOK States this Ethnic groups: (in Mexico) mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%-- tetzaoncoatl ( talk) 07:51, 22 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tetzaoncoatl ( talk • contribs) -- 15:28, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Romany in Mexico?
I don't doubt there's at least one romany speaker in Mexico. But if you mention it as a language there, then you have to add more than 10000 languages and you can not state it in the same level as french speakers (there are thousands of french speakers in Mx, colonies and a long heritage in some zones.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.58.232.34 ( talk) 10:24, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
The spanish are not dark skinned, that is a steriotype. You'll find dark spanish complexioned people in wales and ireland. The old belief of dark skinned southern Europeans goes back to the 19th century when English and other Germanic sumpremecists tried to show the differance between so called 'true Europeans' and what they considered to be secondary Europeans. The spanish are white whereas the Mexicans are not remotly European looking! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.167.244.90 ( talk) 15:48, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes Spain has white people but most of them tend to be darker, They have always been mixing with people from Arab background, due to their proximity and several wars, you can even notice that in the etymology of several Spanish words and cities from Spain, Therefore Spaniards are darker, You have to make differences, though, northern European people are very much white, and southern Spaniard tend to be darker. (Is like if I only have seen black French people in my neighborhood and I will state all French people is Black. very ignorant.) even indigenous groups from Mexico look different, some are chubby and dark, others are tall skkiny with American Indian like features. So only racist people will denie that Mexican cant be white or of any other color. Besides, White is just another way for some people to feel superior, and if anyone can have it, they feel powerless-- 04:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tetzaoncoatl ( talk • contribs)
You still have no proof. On the Talk spanish people page it is shown that the spanish are entirly European, to say their not is racist. Why can't mexicans just be proud of their proper heritage. Its like the Arab states in the 60s all of who claimed full arab decent untill they realised that was nonsense. The same will happen in Mexico oneday!- English Bobby ( talk) 10:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Those are not that reliable actually. The first one is goverment run, which tells people what they want you to know (this happens alot in England) and the second is only such because i can't speak Spanish and there doesn't appear to be an English translation.-- 86.141.67.133 ( talk) 11:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Sorry to dissapoint all of the haters, but if you come to mexico to study or live you will rarely see latin-indigenous looking people, i think the mistake is because most of the indigenous looking people works on tourist focused places selling tourist-like suvenirs (not because they cant get another place to work, but because it give good income), and the guy talking about the people after mexican independence and before mexican revolution, well... it happened one 100 years after the other and at that time it was normal to have like 10+ childs per family.
Sometimes i get a little surprised on how the self-proclamed "americans" see Mexico, is not that the people from Mexico is ashamed from their heritage, is just that most of the people just didnt care as the "americans" do trying to not mix their blood with "non-americans". I think one of the oldest and most common phrases in Mexico is "Mejora la raza" (improving the race), i dont care about giving facts at all, if you don't believe just come and see by yourself. Just on my family, the elders have blond hair and blue eyes, my cousin have gray-green eyes and light-brown hair and even with that heritage i'm totally mestizo looking (dark hair/eyes and no, i'm not adopted) so yes... most of the population in mexico is mestizo. P.S.: I'm not sorry for my poor english =).-- 201.158.234.64 ( talk) 23:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
why don't you have a problem with speaking a language that was forced on your ancestors on their homeland?the language of the imperialistic slavetrading conquistadors.spanish in case you have no idea what a conquistador is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.29.190.51 ( talk) 20:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Though there is no proof Mexicans are Mixed race. Most of the peoples of the mediterranean were conquered by Rome yet non of them are half Italian today.- English Bobby ( talk) 10:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Why would any Mexican "have no idea what a conquistador is"? That's like saying "in case you have no idea what a Pilgrim is" to any American who has been to elementary school. And in case you haven't noticed, "conquistador" is Spanish for "conqueror", so no Spanish speaker should have any trouble figuring out what a conquistador is, even if they're unaware of Mexican history. As to the actual question, do you ignore the fact that for most of us, the conquerors are our ancestors as much as the conquered? Or are you aware of Mexico's ethnic diversity and are, in fact, asking how the indigenous, non-mestizo people of the country feel about speaking Spanish? If it's the latter case, your question is valid. The various indigenous peoples of Mexico still speak their original languages. Most of them are bilingual or multilingual, speaking one or more indigenous languages plus Spanish, although to this day there are still some who don't know Spanish. Anyway, the problem for these people is that their languages are ignored or discriminated by the mestizo majority and, in some cases, drifting to oblivion with every generation that passes. Some of them react by rejecting their culture and trying to adapt to the Spanish speaking establishment, others simply keep talking their language and teaching it to their children like they have aways done, and others react by taking more pride in their heritage and actively promoting it, but I've never heard any of them say "let's not speak Spanish, it's the language of the conquerors". That would be very impractical. As far as I know, they have no problem with Spanish as long as they can keep their languages alive and not be alienated for it. Itzcuintli ( talk) 05:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
Surprising to find much of this article poorly written. Just one example, "As the conservadores refused to recognized, the War of Reform began in 1858, both groups had their own governments, but ended in 1861 with the liberal victory led by Amerindian President Benito Juárez. In the 1860s underwent...." Plain bad writing.
Perhaps reword the part about declaring independence. Hidalgo and Allende didn't work together as implied here.-- Phil5329 ( talk) 03:50, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Independence day is incorrectly listed as September 15, 1810 in the country stats section on the right hand of the page. It should state September 16, 1810. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.90.245 ( talk) 22:29, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
This article, and the History section in particular, are full of run-on sentences and sentence fragments. I corrected one of them, but correcting the rest might be a good project for others to take up. Jrsightes ( talk) 08:40, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Can someone check that the information about current population for mexico city is correct?, I am quite sure they are living 22 million people not 19 million (this information is acording to the INEGI or national statistics and informatic institute. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Damianandrade ( talk • contribs) 00:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
This image will look good in the sports section can someone pleas add it. (unsigned)
1. There are already 2 images in that section.
2. Football (Soccer) and Baseball are Mexico's most popular sports.
3. Could we even consider "Lucha Libre" a real sport, we all know it's fake however entertaining it might be.
Supaman89 (
talk)
23:47, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Supaman89 ( talk) 03:05, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Add Mexico, with Switzerland and the Republic of Korea, form the Environmental Integrity Group (EIG). http://unfccc.int/parties_and_observers/parties/negotiating_groups/items/2714.php Switzerland signed the Kyoto Protocol in 1998 and ratified it in 2003, when did Mexico? The EIG is related to United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, currently the United Nations Climate Change Conference 2009 '"COP-15" in Copenhagen, Denmark, between December 7 and December 18, 2009. As for notability, this meeting has been called the most important meeting in history, for example ... for reference starting points, see Category:Climate crisis, Category:Global warming, Category:Climate change, Category:Stop Climate Chaos, Category:Global Campaign for Climate Action, Category:Action on climate change 99.155.157.151 ( talk) 16:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.155.157.151 ( talk) 16:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
The article has come to a point where we urgently need to fix it.
I see editors with hidden agendas adding content that is completely irrelevant to the article and that seems to me much more as fan talk than anything else. I lived in Mexico for many many years and I still have lots of contacts there. I closely follow the mexican press and I know:
Mentioning CEMEX, TELEVISA or AEROMEXICO in the article seem perfectly normal to me as they are internationally recognized companies that play a major role in the country in their respective fields. But Zonda Telecom? Really? Do people looking for information about MEXICO really need to know that Hydra Technologies won a prize that no one ever heard of?
To the editors that seem to have an special interest in having mentions to the above mentioned companies in THIS ARTICLE:
please explain why and how are these mentions worth including in an article that is supposed to be about A COUNTRY.
I'm once again removing this irrelevant content from the article the time being.
Before reverting this edit or replying, please read wikipedia's policies about undue weight thanks. Cerealito ( talk) 16:10, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
In order to achieve concensus in the Industry/communications section, I'm removing the image of Zonda Telecom but leaving the text mention. I've requested citations though; the information given is very dubious. Cerealito ( talk) 13:24, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Fellow wikipedian Rahlgd: I deeply regret that you keep adding content to the article that is not relevant to it. We have a serious discussion going on here and you just reverted changes without any further explanation. Reverting changes without any explanation is against wikipedia's spirit, so please take the time to explain your reverts in the future. Let me assure you once again that I don't have any kind of problem with private companies. Please stop insinuating that, it is simply not true. There are many mentions to them in the article and I have never attempted to delete them, I'm fine with them and I will try to add more if they make a better article.
The point here is: the mentions to Zonda Telecom and to Hydra technologies are completely out of scope. I've given you my reasons and replied to your arguments. Fellow wikipedian JorgeAranda gave you more reasons. Looking for a consensus I edited the article removing the images but leaving the text mentions and asking for further references. You responded with a revert and silence...
could you please at least read the concerned sections as they are? I'm waiting for your reasons and arguments, don't you think that we could get to an agreement? Cerealito ( talk) 21:00, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
I honestly do think that it is completely appropriate to have at least Zonda telecom mentioned in the communications section because they have contributed a lot to the Mexican telecom industry and have made large strides to advance mobile technology in Mexico and as far as not being recognized internationally i don't see why Zonda would not be considered multi-national considering the six meter high zonda mptrez billboards in Moscow. I do understand the your issue with Hydra however and i will not attempt to over state them in the science and technology section but i do think that we can have the Zonda phone in the communications article because even using the logic that Zonda is not big outside of Mexico (which is not entirely true) it is still a major company in Mexico and the article is about Mexico and that section is about the communications of Mexico. To not include zonda in the communications article would be like talking about the automotive industry of Japan and not mentioning Toyota or Honda. Rahlgd ( talk) 21:40, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Fellow wikipedian Rahlgd: You keep removing citation needed tags instead of adding sources. I couldn't find any reliable sources stating the information you insit to add to the article and that I find very very doubtful. I'm kindly but firmly requesting you to assume your burden of proof.
I'm also removing this statement: `Many Lanix products and other Mexican electronic products are marketed in the United States and Europe by Phillips, Sony and other companies under royalty agreements.` That was 'supported' upon this citation: http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/mexico/403485-1.html. As any editor will be able to see, that webpage has nothing to do with the Lanix corporation.
Cerealito ( talk) 20:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Well i don't know how else to prove to you that Zonda is major representative of the Mexican telecom industry. That's like asking someone for proof that Samsung is a major representative of the South Korean electronics industry. It's just common knowledge. And yes there are Zonda billboards in Moscow right outside of Domodedovo airport and in downtown which i have seen so i'm pretty sure Zonda is known in other countries. I don't know why your so transfixed on getting rid of Zonda Telecom. Why would you even try to delete it's main article? If anyone has a conflict of interests it looks more like you just have some problem with Zonda. Zonda is representative of the Mexican communications industry for the following reasons:
1.It's Mexicos first indigenous mobile phone designer and manufacturer
2.It's products are used by large companies such as Telcel and America Movil
3.It is a Mexican company that other foreigners may know about
4.It has a large revenue and is a major corporation in the cell phone industry in Mexico and is known in other countries
5.It has integrated very advanced technologies and has been the first Mexican company to implement these
6.It employs over 19,000 people!
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Rahlgd (
talk •
contribs)
17:37, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
In the absence of reliable sources, the poor relevance of the disputed content to the article and the lack of response from the interested editors, I'm once again deleting this information in spite of the lack of consensus.
Cerealito (
talk)
09:44, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
The information about Mexico's climate is poor because is missing much of the information of the northern desert climate and the extreme temperatures of 45 °C of more in the desert. {{ editsemiprotected}}-- Mario 181193 ( talk) 04:07, 12 November 2009 (UTC)Mario 181193
I think that this section should include the geography of the desert in Northen Mexico like in Sonora, Baja California, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, and small portions of Tamaulipas. It should include the extreme temperatures of 50 °C and upwards in the Sonoran Desert in Baja California and Sonora and the extreme temperatures of the major city Monterrey of 40°C adn upwards in summer time and that northern mexico is located at the same latitude of the deserts in northern africa and Saudi Arabia. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mario 181193 ( talk • contribs) 01:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
On the right section where it shows Mexico's declaration of Independence as sept 15 1810 that is incorrect the real date for Mexico's declaration of Independence is Sept 16 1810 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlochacon ( talk • contribs) 07:20, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
many of our modern foods now come from mexico do to all the imigrents takeing there culter with them, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thereal21 ( talk • contribs) 03:48, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
with population of 111 million, it is the 11th most populous country. Two amazeing to beleeve--all these 1s in a only place. is it be true? 70.153.208.164 ( talk) 23:36, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
This article has multiple issues, the most visible, perhaps, is the unnecessary amount of images. I've removed some myself (size has been reduced by nearly 8 KB), but I think it'd be better if there were a clear consensus concerning which images should be removed. Kraft. ( talk) 03:21, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I felt I had to revert the recent edits by user Rahlgd for the following reasons: First and most upsetting, Rahlgd vandalized some numbers, such as the estimate of population in prehispanic times. Second, he continues to add pictures to an article that has already been discussed, several times in the past, as having too many of them. Third, several of the pictures suggest personal bias or conflict of interest issues. Fourth, some of the edits consist of dozens of small changes, few of them objectionable on their own, but together they add up to present the subject matter on a very different tone than what had been agreed by the community before --this is notable in the Industry and Military sections. I am sorry to revert other people's edits along with this. JorgeAranda ( talk) 19:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
The numbers in the pre-hispanic times were sourced from national geographic. Also while you mean good faith in your revert you also reverted other peoples work and shouldn't have just reverted everything. If you want to get rid of some images, we should go over them instead of just reverting the whole thing. Also i am confused on how any of the images are a conflict of interest. I am going to revert the most recent edit and from there we can then decide what we should change. Rahlgd ( talk) 21:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Ah okay that sounds reasonable. Okay then, i'll not add information that might sound dubious without sourcing then. Sorry if i added thing that could be portrayed in a personally advancing manner, i realize what you mean now. I must disagree on the statement that Aztec dancers don't relate to Mexico. I'm not at all advocating the removal of of the other image in the culture section but i think that there can be both without the article having too many images. Rahlgd ( talk) 18:10, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I only want to point out the fact that Raghld has attacked me in a very uncivil way. He went for "help" to other user talk page kinda spreading a prejudice against me. He said that I'm against native Mexicans because I find the Aztec dancer picture not suitable for the culture section. WE have given him our arguments, yet he decides to make this a personal battle. So I'm not sure how productive is to "talk" to Raghgl, when it seems that the only thing that matters to him is to get the things done his way. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 00:54, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
My thoughts: The Aztec dancers are folkloric dancers since they are predominantly a custom of the common people (hence the name Folkloric). These dancers are also found in professional schools of dancing and theater across Mexico. They have a very wide presence all over Mexico (even in the U.S.) and vary in style from amateur to professional. I have seen Aztec and other native American style dancers perform in the prestigious Teatro Degollado in Guadalajara Jalisco alongside other folkloric dances. As the people in this discussion have already said: these sub-sections are stubs and only the most general and wide ranging elements should be used as brief narratives, details should be saved for the main articles. In short words, we must stick to the "stereotypes," that is, those images that are immediately identifiable by the widest audience possible as being Mexican for the sake of overview. Putting up an image of an Aztec dancer will not affect the article at all and they are just as legitimate as the Charro if anyone wants to argue that only Mexican folkloric images should be included.
Also, You guys have hit a very complex snag which is basically the tip of a social iceberg. I have noticed that there is an ongoing battle in the Mexican community over conflicting identities with some arguing towards the Hispanic image while the rest argue towards the indigenous image with the "mestizo" awkwardly stuck in the middle. It's no mystery that the poorest people in Mexico are the indigenous and the upper classes are predominantly white Hispanics. Mexican politics and the media contain a mostly white staff despite the fact that the majority of Mexicans are darker. The racism and racial stratification that is a legacy of colonialism is still very present in Mexican society and attitudes. Many Mexicans are just resentful of Hispanicism and want nothing to do with a Hispanic identity thus lean and identify with the indigenous ancestry and heritage and try to uproot the Hispanic element. This is happening because Mexicans are feeling discriminated in their own country as the Mexican media mostly caters to a white upper class audience and promotes a culture that feels alien and foreign to the common Mexican. This harbors a cultural cringe as a result of the upper entrepreneurial classes judging the common Mexican to be inherently inept at being independent and autonomous which causes them to have to import almost every complex and manufactured thing (technology, training, machinery etc) from Europe or the United States while at the same time diminishing incentive and initiative in Mexican society. The resulting inferiority complex is only exasperated by the government and the upper classes welcoming all types of foreign nationals while deliberately oppressing it's own people as it.
Now I think I have gone way off subject. I only wanted to give a very brief explanation of what is happening behind this seemingly simple debate. These are very murky waters in the middle of a storm so the best advice I can give here is to stick with the facts and keep idealism and opinion at bay. Keep it simple as well because if you get into too much detail you will end up with the paragraph I wrote above. The article should only include what is relevant and encyclopedic, I personally believe that pictures are better than plain text. The number of pictures should be limited to somewhere between 1 and 3 if the text is long enough, and they should be relevant to the subject. Ocelotl10293 ( talk) 03:09, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I have never heard of such a thing... is there a reference? Snow is common in the Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt (a.k.a. Sierra Nevada). In fact, the picture shows pine trees, which are not common of the Sierra Madre del Sur, but are very common of the Sierra Nevada. The author of the pic, describes it as "Snow in the mountains of central Mexico", but Sierra Madre del Sur does not cross central Mexico. -- the Dúnadan 16:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I noticed that recently someone changed the history section by adding a heading that said 20th century. That got me thinking that maybe we could expand the history section and provide more in depth explanations of specific times or Era's like in the Russia article. I think this would be a great way to improve the article and it would give a lot more understanding especially if each section in the history area explained how these specific times effected the people and influenced specific cultural or societal aspects. If anyone has ideas please share them here. Thanks, Rahlgd ( talk) 19:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
I saw AlexCovarrubias and Bambuway working on this sentence in the lead: "Despite Mexico's position as an emerging power [2], the increase in drug-related violence and uneven income distribution remain issues of concern."
It appears that Mexico is a middle power and an emerging market. However, when I read the whole sentence, I started to feel that it is not quite right. Here's the problem: the structure of the sentence is "Despite the fact that X is true, Y is true." The use of the word "despite" suggests that one would expect Y not to be true when X is true but that in this particular case Y is surprisingly true. If we look at the list of middle powers in the middle power article and the list of Emerging markets, there are several other countries that also have drug-related violence (Colombia) and uneven income distribution (Brazil, India, Phillipines, Indonesia). Thus, I don't think the sentence gives the reader the right impression so I deleted it. There's no problem with either half of the sentence. It's just that when joined together with "Despite", the sentence implies something that is not true which is that it is exceptional for a middle power or an emerging market to have drug-related violence and/or uneven income distribution.
-- Richard S ( talk) 18:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
For some reason, the U.S. or Wikipedia considers Mexico as a country since 1821. That is a totally different and disrespectful point of view to the Mexicans'. Mexico will celebrate it's Bicentenary in 2010. For Mexicans an for nowadays Spanish too, Mexico is a country since 1910. The 100 year anniversary was in 1910. 2010 is the year of the big bicentennial celebrations. Wikipedia has to change their wrong and disrespectful point of view. In 1821 the Spaniards (the ones from Spain, the ones from Mexico considered themselves Mexicans) finally gave up and signed, but for Mexicans, this doesn't mean that they were not a country since 1910. This is true not only for Mexico, but for many other countries in Latin America, and if you have any doubt of it, Spain is going to be present in the bicentennial of all these Latin American countries. Spain also acknowledges 1910 as the big date. Why the U.S. doesn't? This is true in many references to the History of Texas, the history of Arizona, and many more, where they state that Arizona became independent from Spain in 1821. Mexicans had their own congress long before, even if the Spaniards repeteadely killed their leaders. That should be revised. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.93.16 ( talk) 15:48, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Typo noted:
"In the 2009-20012 Congress of the Union, seven parties are therein represented; four of them, however, have not received neither in this nor in previous congresses more than 4% of the national votes.[80]"
Should be changed to: "In the 2009-2012 Congress of the Union, seven parties are therein represented; four of them, however, have not received neither in this nor in previous congresses more than 4% of the national votes.[80]"
im jimmys friend \ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.79.111.6 ( talk) 15:40, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
No way 30% of Mexican exports go to Brazil. That has to be corrected because that information is false.-- 88.24.242.195 ( talk) 05:07, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
The old history of this page from 2001 and most of 2002 can be found at Talk:Mexico/Old version. Graham 87 07:06, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
I am very confused and frustrated. One user is replacing the official name of Mexico to a strange version in Náhuatl language. I have reverted his changed twice but he seem not to understand. The infobox requires the official name of the country. The official name given in the Political Constitution of the United Mexican States is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos", in Spanish.
On the other hand, this "issue" has been discussed in the past and the resolution has always been that the official name is in Spanish, even if it is a de facto language not officialized in any part of the constitution. There is no other official name for the country.
Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 08:29, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Is the Constitution of Mexico written is Spanish (or Mexican Spanish, as you may want to call it), or is it written in 64 (63 plus Spanish) languages? what is the official name in that document? Was it written (and approved/signed) in one of the native languages and then translated into Spanish and (possibly) the other 62 languages? what is the foficial name in that doc? Is it translated into 63 other languages or is it translated to 63 other langagues plus various others languages (such as English, French, etc) possibly without any other official approval? Maybe it was written in Spanish and then translated into the 63 other languages. what is the official name in those docs? You may want to call the original document the Constitution was written and signed/approved on, the official document, and work from there for what constitutes the official name of the country.
Consider also that, as it is the case with other countries, there may be more than one official language and, form there, more than one official name of the country, that is, an official country name in Spanish, an official country name in Náhuatl, and (who knows?) an official country name in English, French, German, etc for the rest of the world. Consider then what consititutes "official", Is official only something that is put out by the Federal Mexican government? Or is official also if some other official body says so? the Federal Mexican Judicial branch? the federal Mexican executive branch? or because it is the name for Mexico in the Int'l World Court of Justice? Or the UN???... maybe the United Nations has an official name for Mexico (in each of its 7 authorized languages)...?
Consider also that to the rest of the world the de facto language in Mexico is Spanish. I am not going to take the time here, but I believe we could easily find most (all?) international organizations state Spanish is the official language in Mexico IF they had to pick one from its 63 languages, just based on the fact it is the one most widely used there. This may help work out your differences. Just population the infobox field "Official county name" with one the country name in one of the 62 other recognized languages of Mexico just to make a point (in particular when Spanish is the lingua franca) doesn't do anyone any good.
Also if the issue has been discussed before, and resolved in favor of Spanish, you may want to show the wiki diff for such resolution. Issues that have received consensus among editors are very rarely changed again.
Further, be sure everyone understands (and agrees on) the difference between lingua franca (de facto) language, recognized language (or recognized native language), and official language.
Finally, I'd suggest you don't lose focus of the fact that the issue here is not, What is the official language of Mexico, but instead, what is the official name for Mexico. Regards, Mercy11 ( talk) 14:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
I think we can make a compromise and publish both. While Mexico's most spoken language by far is Spanish, the name Mexico is in fact derived from it's Nahuatl name, Mēxihco. The nation info box does not ask for the official name but for the native name so both can and should be present and if anything the Nahuatl has a more valid reason to be there but for the sake of reality Spanish must be included as well. And yes the Indigenous names all are equally as valid by law. The Spanish name should go under the common long name category of the Infobox. If i was to go to a government office and request official paperwork but i didn't speak Spanish and only Nahuatl then the government is legally obliged to provide me with those papers in Nahuatl, even though this dosen't happen many times it is law and these languages and their names for Mexico share just as much equal validity as Spanish. To answer another statement,the constitution has been published in Yucatec Mayan, Zapotec and it has been translated into Nahuatl before, so i don't know why they're making a big thing about it in that article, probably because it's the offial copy of the document translated by the Federal government. Regarding the comment that most people know Spanish to be the offical language of Mexico: Wikipedia is meant to explain true things not reinforce incorrect information even if most poeple incorrectly think that it's common knowledge. Based on the fact that Mēxihco is the native name given to Mexico i think it should be included. There are multiple names which can legally be regarded as legal official names fo Mexico, the same way that there are eleven legal official names for South Africa, in English, Afrikaans, Venda, Tsonga and other languages. And you can't say that Mexico's de facto official language is Spanish because there is no government odcument that says it is and many Mexican people still don't use Spanish as their main "de facto" language with some not even knowing how to speak Spanish. Rahlgd ( talk) 06:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Actually in all honesty and fairness, I do think we should have the name in as many languages as possible, with a drop-down list as is used in the South Africa article, so yes if i did know what the name for the country was in other indigenous languages i would use them. The fact of the matter is that the original name that Mexico is derived from is it's Nahuatl name and i do think we should have the Spanish and Nahuatl names (I don't have a problem with leaving the Spanish name there as well. I am not the user that keeps removing the Spanish name.) I see no reason to remove the Nahuatl name if the Spanish name is kept. Spanish is the most spoken language in Mexico and therefore must be kept and the original name for Mexico is the Nahuatl name, Mēxihco so it should be kept as well. Rahlgd ( talk) 19:11, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for all the input. I just want all of you to notice that despite the fact that the issue is still on discussion, Rahgdl has introduced again his personal POV, reverting not only my edit, but Jorge Aranda's and SamEV's. That's just plainly uncivil and very childish. Some points:
Thanks for reading and sorry if I'm a little agressive, but to be honest, I'm very desperated and frustrated. Why should one person change the stability gained in YEARS of honest work by several users, just based in loose arguments? Pardon me. =( Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 02:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
In the Nahuatl translations of the Mexican constitution the official name of The United Mexican States is given as Mēxihcatl Tlacetilīlli Tlahtohcāyōtl which translates literally into "Mexican United States" this proves that the Spanish name is the official name only in Spanish not in all languages. And for some reason you seem to have the concept that the Spanish name is the only "local language" which is incorrect as all languages which are legally national languages are local languages. The reason that the country's Spanish name was given in the constitution was because the document was written in Spanish. I am not trying to say that Nahuatl is as widely spoken as Spanish but i am saying it is just as valid a name to add. And you said "Why should one person change the stability gained in YEARS of honest work by several users, just based in loose arguments?" well just because something is stable dosen't mean it's correct and even if there is only one user trying to change something than they have a right too if they have a credible reason to change something. And by the way there are multiple editors arguing for this not only me. Things shouldn't be left the way they are just because they have been like that for a long time. If that was the argument given than no progress would ever be made. And please don't give the argument that i am being uncivil by reverting edits because you do the exact same thing to me and 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) and i provided reason and explanation of my changes. Rahlgd ( talk) 06:14, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm trying to keep an even position while we figure this out by keeping both the Nahuatl and Spanish but you keep deleting the Nahuatl and Yucatec Maya therefore not giving a fair balance for the time being. Please leave both until we all reach a consensus. Rahlgd ( talk) 09:21, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Let me try to disentangle this. There are two sets of edits going on simultaneously here. The first is about the "native name" of the country in the infobox. The second is the list of names and pronunciations of the country in several of its languages in the first paragraph of the article.
Regarding the infobox edits, a comparison with other countries is useful. The articles on Guatemala, Honduras, and Nicaragua, among others, show their names in English and Spanish only, even though they have other official languages as well. The infobox on the United States article does not acknowledge any native languages. The article on Spain has the name in Spanish (Castillian), but not in Basque, Catalan, or any other of its languages. For the People's Republic of China we get what I think is Mandarin and Cantonese, but not any of its other recognized languages. The article on South Africa, as has already been pointed out, has the name in English and a drop down with the other ten official languages of the country.
I think the example of South Africa is the most enlightened: by default the list of names does not distract from the content of the article, but readers can easily see the name of the country in its other official languages if they wish to. So, considering that significant minorities of Mexico speak Nahuatl (about 1.5%) and Yucatec Maya (about 1%), perhaps we could reach a compromise by including the name of the country in those languages in a drop down list, as with South Africa. We could also include the name of the country in its other commonly used languages. If the list becomes unwieldy (at 63, it would), a separate page with the list of names could be created.
Regarding the first paragraph of the article, can we agree that it has become too cluttered with the latest additions? None of the articles of the other countries that I listed include the name and pronunciation of the country in more than one of its official or recognized languages. Considering that Spanish is the lingua franca in Mexico, I see no reason to clutter the paragraph with all of the other names and pronunciations. JorgeAranda ( talk) 14:55, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
:I agree entirely.
SamEV (
talk)
21:05, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I just read the whole discution, and IMHO I don't think it's a good idea to put all the Amerindian languages in a list form either. Mexico's de facto language is Spanish, it is spoken by more than 97% of the population and it is indeed almost the "native language" of the country if you will, for better or for worst it has been the main language of Mexico ever since its creation (back in the New Spain). I'm all in favour of mentioning the other amerindian languages that exist in the country in their respective section, but trying to put them in the same level as Spanish is realistically speaking not true. If there were just a few Amerindian languages (such as South Africa's case) I could agree to put them in a list, but there are 62 of them, we just can't put them all, and selecting some of them over others is completely arbitrary and "unfair" to the rest of them.
As Jorge Aranda mentioned above, let's look at the examples from other articles, Spain for example does have a real linguistic diversity, almost every region has its own language and its inhabitants do speak that language along with Spanish, nonetheless the Spain article only shows Spanish in its infobox. Now Mexico unlike Spain does not have a real multilinguistic society, almost all of Mexico's population speaks Spanish only, don't you think it's a bit too pushy trying to over highlight these Amerindian languages despites the fact that they don't play a bigger roll than say Welsh does in the UK or Alsatian does in France? Again for better or for worst that's just the way it is. Supaman89 ( talk) 05:53, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm leaving for somedays, and these days I'll not edit the article. But this means nothing for my attitude of this issue, that is, I keep the right of state "still not consensus" and edit this article when I'm back in Feb. 23rd GMT+8. Have a good day! -- 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ( talk) 15:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I have added a second citation ( CIA World Fact Book) that indicates Mexico's local name is the Spanish language Estados Unidos Mexicanos. This brings to 2 the number of sources complying with WP:RS that attest that Mexico's official local name is the Spanish language Estados Unidos Mexicanos vs. 0 for the number of reliable sources attesting the official local name is the Nahuatl language Mēxihcatl Tlacetilīlli Tlahtohcāyōtl. I am of the opinion that this is now a closed matter. I am also of the opinion that any further discussion here will most likely be an exercise in futility. Should further discussion be warranted I remind everyone that there are other options available: wp:dr, wp:an, and wp:civil. Regards, Mercy11 ( talk) 23:10, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Now I'm interpreting my "I have the following points" and giving a response to SamEV's "nothing of substance" inference, AlexCovarrubias's "most used (98% +) - lingua franca - non-official" point (it's just one of my points), JorgeAranda's amount-otherstuff argument and other comments that may exists. And after
-- 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ( talk) 10:25, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
“ | There're 63 government recognized "native languages" | ” |
“ | Again there's no federal official language of Mexico, even though Mexican Spanish is the current lingua franca. | ” |
“ | Mexico's native languages includes 63 official recognized national languages | ” |
Yú Hǎi, it seems that the source of the disagreement is that you interpret native language in the Infobox as language of Aboriginal people, whereas we, and the great majority of editors for the rest of the Country articles where this box appears, interpret it as local language. We've tried to explain this several times. The role of the Infobox is to provide some basic demographic information about the country, not to give a lesson about where the name "Mexico" originally comes from, nor to highlight the linguistic richness of the country. The edits you propose detract from the goal of the Infobox. They are even more out of place in the lead paragraph of the main article. JorgeAranda ( talk) 14:46, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Till now, ...not finished (unfinished reply)...-- 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ( talk) 09:28, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
the new mexican government 2006 -2012 are using this coat ( http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Escudo_Mexico_2009.jpg) the coat used in this article is old.. thank you.
A section about Mexican craftwork/handicrafts/folk art is missing.-- correogsk ( talk) 20:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
awesome —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
124.186.242.60 (
talk)
08:47, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
A user is adding the unofficial figures of race in the main infobox template. I think this should be discussed first (and in fact, I think it was already discussed and the result was not to include those in the infobox) because the Mexican government does not keep record about the "race" of its citizens.
Some of the country articles that have this information in the main infobox is mainly because the correspondent national census agencies officially ask about race. Also, there is the fact that these figures greatly vary between the unofficial sources, and that there is no secure definition about who should be considered mestizo, or "predominantly european" or "predominalty amerindian", or "pure amerindian". Those definitions are far from being well defined.
However, any change as drastical/controversial as this one should be discussed first. Thanks. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 06:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
It's true that the Mexican census doesn't record "race" anymore, but in these days of the genetic revolution, ancestry and mixture are being revealed more and more. I just added a bit on the ongoing Mexican genome project which has already produced a significant report on its research. Since the census stopped tracking "race" back in the 1920s, demographers had been forced to use extrapolations, reasoned assumptions and limited self-reporting. Surprisingly, this early genome report closely corresponds to many of those pre-genomic studies. More to come for sure. Tmangray ( talk) 20:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
As far as I'm aware there are no bullet trains in Mexico... yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luiseargote ( talk • contribs) 10:08, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
There is other nationalities its not just american, asian, African, and Mexican. There's many more spanish races theres Puerto Rican, Peruvian, Columbian, Ecuadorian, Venezuelen, Brazilian, and many more so dont just call a spanish person Mexican because their are other kinds of Spanish nationalities. So remember its not just Mexican. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lola815 ( talk • contribs) 19:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
"In 2009 Mexico was the creator of the new disease commonly referred to as the "swine flu". This spread to many different country's and has lead to the infection of hundreds of people."
This is factually incorrect, unless there is some evidence that "swine flu" was actually created and not the result of a natural mutation. It might be said that the "swine flu" virus originated in Mexico in 2009. Also, it is not "country's" but "countries." A better way to phrase it would be: "This spread to many different countries, infecting hundreds of people."
Ydigernes ( talk) 20:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
As a native Spanish speaker, it strikes me as a very odd translation—I believe Mexican United States is more accurate, given that in the Spanish name, Estados Unidos Mexicanos, "Mexicanos" modifies "Estados Unidos." In my opinion, the translation should reflect that (i.e., Mexican should modify United States, instead of United modifying Mexican States, which would translate "Estados Mexicanos Unidos" in Spanish). I have googled both terms and found that United Mexican States is three times as popular as Mexican United States, so what I want to ask is, why is United Mexican States used, instead of a more accurate Mexican United States? Is it for convenience, so that there are no confusions with the United States of America, or is there a reason, a source, an official document, or anything that has instigated the use of UMS instead of MUS?-- 66.229.214.176 ( talk) 23:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
. "United Mexican States" makes a lot more sense. It's the same as "United Arab Emirates" not "Arab United Emirates. "United Mexican States" is the correct adverb/adjective order. Let's leave it at that. - Quimbero 02:41, 18 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.79.9.129 ( talk)
This discussion has been posted many times but then deleted again after a while. I also think that the correct translation is Mexican United States. Considering that the first documents even speak of Estados-unidos Mexicanos (Mexican United-states), both words shouldn't just be separated by an adjective which refers to both of them. Nevertheless, the official form in English is United Mexican States, independently if it is a real literal translation or not. The only possible reason for this is to avoid confusion with the United States. This is of course justified but it is also part of a very interesting sociolinguistic phenomenon of the USA. Here you will find lots of examples of name shortenings with which national origins simply disappear:
Aldera ( talk) 17:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
All of your opinions are nice, but all official documents in English nowadays say, "United Mexican States". Look at the government websites in Mexico translated into English and it'll say "United Mexican States". The immigration forms when you first arrive at airports in Mexico say, "United Mexican States". My passport (I am indeed Mexican) says "United Mexican States" in the English translation. It will stay as "United Mexicans States". 76.79.9.129 ( talk) 18:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone help find sources for Denmark–Mexico relations. Anyone that can look through Spanish sources would be helpful. -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) ( talk) 14:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}}
There is a mistake on the Administrative Divisions of Mexico table. Hermosillo is the capital of Sonora not Tepic.
Hello. I've noticed that the article has too many images of private, for-profit corporations that might be silently taking advantage of the high traffic and exposure of wikipedia.
To be the clearest possible: An image on wikipedia provides hundreds of thousands (maybe even millions) of displays. While it is legitimate to be looking for a specific company on wikipedia, commercial images in this article seem to be out of scope and constitute a very effective free ad.
I hereby propose to replace/subsitute/delete the following images:
Economy::Bombardier_Global_5000.jpg ---> wikiad on the image foot. Would embraer be happy?
Economy::PueblaAssembly.jpg ---> wikiad on the image foot. GM and Nissan would love to have this exposure.
Sports::Estadio_de_beisbol_en_Monterrey.jpg---> wikiad on the image foot. Other baseball teams under-represented.
Economy::Transportation::Aeromexico_*.jpg ---> wikiad on the whole image. Mexicana is ranting.
Economy::Transportation::Telmexstore.jpg ---> wikiad on the whole image. Not good for competition.
HealthCare::Mexicohospital.jpg ---> wikiad on the whole image. Other private hospitals are not happy!
These images should be replaced with others commercially-neutral content. The first three might just require a new image foot.
I've started to fix this by deleting the image of a drone "developed by hydra-technologies", which was the most obvious wikiad. Hope we can all agree on this effort to improve the article. Regards to all editors! Cerealito ( talk) 09:24, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm opening a new discussion regarding this issue, the term Middle America exists and is used in some publications to describe Mexico's location however compared with the term North America is definitely not as widely used, not to mention that more than half the links about MA refer to the middle class in the United States, therefore I think that the undue weight of the term has to be made clear in the paragraph, because the way it is currently implies that both terms are equally used which are not, here there is a list of how some publications describe Mexico and North America, please notice the lack of the use of the term MA, [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. Supaman89 ( talk) 21:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Even though I waited a couple of days to answer it’s interesting to see that your only contributions to Wikipedia have been done precisely in this section (and quite fast by the way, almost like you were waiting)… anyway, if one argues that there needs to be a text explicitly stating the word “rarely” for it to be true, then one could also argue that there needs to be a text also stating that it is “not rarely” used, in other words common facts (like that whales can’t fly) are obvious to be true (I wouldn’t ask for a text stating “whales can’t fly” to know it’s true) in the same way it’s a fact that North America is the common term and that Middle America (which is mostly used for the middle class in the United States) is not that widely used, all that needs to be done is to clarify the undue weight in the proper section, Corticopia. Supaman89 ( talk) 22:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I am "American" as in U.S. American (Norteamericano), and I have always been taught that Mexico is geographically a part of North America but culturally and socially a part of Latin America. Likewise, I have conferred with an excyclopedia and there are indeed 7 continents of the world-- Asia, Europe, Africa, Antartica, Australia, North America, and South America. Why is North America consisdered its own continent? The reason is because it has its own geogrpahical plate as a land mass, on the North American plate.
Mexico is in North America. And that is final. -- 74.47.100.150 ( talk) 23:16, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
As a Mexican immigrant in the United States, I think it would be ideal if North Americans viewed Mexico as a North American country, while Mexicans viewed their country as Central American. The reason for this belief is that it pains me to see Mexicans clamoring for admission into a "club" that just won't have them. In short, I think the classification of Mexico as part of North America should probably remain intact, at least in the English-language Wikipedia article. (And here I must digress:) Otherwise, I am not a major fan of Mexico's cozy association with the United States, but I do realize that it stems from geographic reality and pressing economic necessity. As a way to offset this unpleasant state of affairs, I think it is essential that Mexico publicly but nonchalantly look toward the south and embrace its Latin American heritage, while still maintaining cordial relations with its northern neighbor. Above all, it is essential to pursue closer relations with the Central American nations, which are historically close to Mexico and whose people generally lack that non-so-subtle racism toward the Amerindian race that characterizes too many blowhards from certain other Latin American countries. (For an example of this barely-concealed racism, turn to the discussion page of the "Latin America" article and look under the headings labeled "white" or some variation thereof. Truly, there is more racism toward Mexicans in those pages--written by other Latin American authors--than I have ever seen in twenty years of living in the United States.) In any case, keep Mexico in North America, por favor. -- Namenderkrieg ( talk) 23:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
I have tried to trim this article down bit by bit with clear explanations, but in one edit I have been reverted like a common vandal. I am entitled to a better explanation than "I understand you're trying to trim it, but...":
Green Giant ( talk) 20:24, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
According to the CIA Work Factbook, Mexico's GDP (PPP) is 1,559 trillion in 2008 so why is it constantly being changed back to billion? Like a country of that size could survive off that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielg77017 ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
The very opening of the economy section in the article contains a contradiction in terms: "Mexico has a free market mixed economy...". See it? Free Market, and mixed economies are different economic systems, the terms are mutually exclusive. The term mixed economy was coined to refer to those economic systems with a market structure and significant levels of state direction (Like Mexico, the U.S. and almost every country). I suggest the sentence I reference be changed to "Mexico has a mixed economy...".
Nothing against Mexico but the prevalence of government enforced monopolies, state ownership, the often weak rule of law, and long history of tariffs and price controls are a far cry from the system Adam Smith described. Indeed few countries are true free markets, probably only Hong Kong and Singapore come close. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.183.143.163 ( talk) 19:57, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
In the side bar containing quick facts about the Mexican economy, it claims that Brazil accounts for 30.1% and Chile account for 9.3% of Mexican imports. I checked the CIA Factbook source cited below, and these numbers are not at all consistent with the source cited. This needs to be corrected. For an academic project I am looking at OECD numbers on Mexican imports, and what I have found is consistent with the CIA Factbook numbers, and are wildly different than the numbers currently being shown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.101.159.82 ( talk) 22:10, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh, hey, did anyone look at the chart of Income of Mexican Citizen in US dollars? Did you noticed it was unsourced, except for the person who uploaded it and gleefully admitted that they did it themselves? Are those numbers correct? If they are, they're quite surprising (and don't match the figures in the article!) 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC). 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)! 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)# 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC). 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)% 64.88.170.32 ( talk) 05:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Although in a few documents, the correct translation of Estados Unidos Mexicanos in English should be Mexican United States rather than United Mexican States. You may find references here:
The constitution in English by a research institute at UNAM: http://www.juridicas.unam.mx/infjur/leg/constmex/pdf/consting.pdf
An article about its armed forces: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Armed_Forces
I hope it helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jnjnjn ( talk • contribs) 08:22, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Hello. According to INEGI and Conapo, the Mexican population reaches 107.5 million. You can look at http://www.inegi.org.mx/inegi/contenidos/espanol/prensa/contenidos/estadisticas/2009/poblacion09.asp?s=inegi&c=2734&ep=18 or at http://www.conapo.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=125&Itemid=193 (select "Républica Mexicana" and click on "Ver").-- Youssef ( talk) 08:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC) -- Youssef ( talk) 09:04, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Where is the proof that a majority of Mexicans are 'mestizo', i find that very unlikly. According to the TIMES COMPLETE HISTORY OF THE WORLD they have an ethnic chart done shortly after independance of the latin american states which shows Mexico ( and others ) has more indians than Mestizos and whites all together! I think whats happening is people are confusing mixed culture with mixed race, i mean in England our language is halve french but were not called Anglofrench people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.170.148 ( talk) 11:24, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Thats nonsense. Firstly Mexicos population was only 6 million at independance so the notion that it shrunk to 14 million is completly wrong, secondly 80% of its population killed? where did you read that. If that were true it would the worst genocide in history. Also ive never seen a blond haired blue eyed Mexican before, alot of dark skinned dark eyed Mexicans but never nordic looking ones! I think the Mexican mestizo thing is alot like the turkish were seljuk belief and generally a myth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.215.229 ( talk) 12:22, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes but can you prove it? The only colonial charts i have seen sho indians at about 70% and the rest evenly divided between mixed bloods and whites. Are you saying all the indians disappeared. Anyone mixing ith that number ould soon be absorbed. I dont get why SOME Mexicans are so scared of being indian i mean do you think we whites are better or something and you want to be us? because you wrong! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.215.229 ( talk) 17:39, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Supaman89 ( talk) 19:18, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Look at more recent data like -Britanica has it at about 16% White, 16% Indian, and about 68% Mestizo, The CIA of the USA has it at 60% Mestizo, Amerindain or predominantly Amerindian (Mestizo still) 30%, White 9%. Check out this more me and tell me what you think Mennonites in Mexico Jesusmariajalisco ( talk) 18:28, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Just because they say that do not make it correct. They are simply going with the flow, the point im making is that no proper genetic test has ever been done(like those done in many other countries including mine) and it is only assumed latin americans are mixed race. In many ways its just political correctness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.215.229 ( talk) 18:50, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
View this site, its a government based genetic study about the population, read it, study it, then get back to us. http://www.inmegen.gob.mx/ Jesusmariajalisco ( talk) 19:35, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
That Mexican population is manly Mestizo which means Amerindians are Mixed with Europeans, Doesn't exactly means that we are mixed with Albino whites, The Europeans We are mixed with are Spaniards which tend to be more dark or/and short in comparison with other Europeans(British, Scandinavians etc.). So although some of the statement that we are manly Mesticos is awkward for US Americans is only a matter of looking up Who are we manly mixed with. Besides for the US Americans that have never been to a largest cities in Mexico will find that We DO have some white people; that they tend to come from wealthier families in Mexico, and wealthy Mexicans do not tend to immigrate to the US in vast numbers as other Mexicans do, well you just need to travel to the actual country to more accurately describe the people from there( because even if you see a white Mexican on the US you will probably think he is just other American, and will never notice him). Also the CIA WORLD FACT BOOK States this Ethnic groups: (in Mexico) mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%-- tetzaoncoatl ( talk) 07:51, 22 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tetzaoncoatl ( talk • contribs) -- 15:28, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Romany in Mexico?
I don't doubt there's at least one romany speaker in Mexico. But if you mention it as a language there, then you have to add more than 10000 languages and you can not state it in the same level as french speakers (there are thousands of french speakers in Mx, colonies and a long heritage in some zones.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.58.232.34 ( talk) 10:24, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
The spanish are not dark skinned, that is a steriotype. You'll find dark spanish complexioned people in wales and ireland. The old belief of dark skinned southern Europeans goes back to the 19th century when English and other Germanic sumpremecists tried to show the differance between so called 'true Europeans' and what they considered to be secondary Europeans. The spanish are white whereas the Mexicans are not remotly European looking! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.167.244.90 ( talk) 15:48, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes Spain has white people but most of them tend to be darker, They have always been mixing with people from Arab background, due to their proximity and several wars, you can even notice that in the etymology of several Spanish words and cities from Spain, Therefore Spaniards are darker, You have to make differences, though, northern European people are very much white, and southern Spaniard tend to be darker. (Is like if I only have seen black French people in my neighborhood and I will state all French people is Black. very ignorant.) even indigenous groups from Mexico look different, some are chubby and dark, others are tall skkiny with American Indian like features. So only racist people will denie that Mexican cant be white or of any other color. Besides, White is just another way for some people to feel superior, and if anyone can have it, they feel powerless-- 04:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tetzaoncoatl ( talk • contribs)
You still have no proof. On the Talk spanish people page it is shown that the spanish are entirly European, to say their not is racist. Why can't mexicans just be proud of their proper heritage. Its like the Arab states in the 60s all of who claimed full arab decent untill they realised that was nonsense. The same will happen in Mexico oneday!- English Bobby ( talk) 10:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Those are not that reliable actually. The first one is goverment run, which tells people what they want you to know (this happens alot in England) and the second is only such because i can't speak Spanish and there doesn't appear to be an English translation.-- 86.141.67.133 ( talk) 11:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Sorry to dissapoint all of the haters, but if you come to mexico to study or live you will rarely see latin-indigenous looking people, i think the mistake is because most of the indigenous looking people works on tourist focused places selling tourist-like suvenirs (not because they cant get another place to work, but because it give good income), and the guy talking about the people after mexican independence and before mexican revolution, well... it happened one 100 years after the other and at that time it was normal to have like 10+ childs per family.
Sometimes i get a little surprised on how the self-proclamed "americans" see Mexico, is not that the people from Mexico is ashamed from their heritage, is just that most of the people just didnt care as the "americans" do trying to not mix their blood with "non-americans". I think one of the oldest and most common phrases in Mexico is "Mejora la raza" (improving the race), i dont care about giving facts at all, if you don't believe just come and see by yourself. Just on my family, the elders have blond hair and blue eyes, my cousin have gray-green eyes and light-brown hair and even with that heritage i'm totally mestizo looking (dark hair/eyes and no, i'm not adopted) so yes... most of the population in mexico is mestizo. P.S.: I'm not sorry for my poor english =).-- 201.158.234.64 ( talk) 23:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
why don't you have a problem with speaking a language that was forced on your ancestors on their homeland?the language of the imperialistic slavetrading conquistadors.spanish in case you have no idea what a conquistador is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.29.190.51 ( talk) 20:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Though there is no proof Mexicans are Mixed race. Most of the peoples of the mediterranean were conquered by Rome yet non of them are half Italian today.- English Bobby ( talk) 10:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Why would any Mexican "have no idea what a conquistador is"? That's like saying "in case you have no idea what a Pilgrim is" to any American who has been to elementary school. And in case you haven't noticed, "conquistador" is Spanish for "conqueror", so no Spanish speaker should have any trouble figuring out what a conquistador is, even if they're unaware of Mexican history. As to the actual question, do you ignore the fact that for most of us, the conquerors are our ancestors as much as the conquered? Or are you aware of Mexico's ethnic diversity and are, in fact, asking how the indigenous, non-mestizo people of the country feel about speaking Spanish? If it's the latter case, your question is valid. The various indigenous peoples of Mexico still speak their original languages. Most of them are bilingual or multilingual, speaking one or more indigenous languages plus Spanish, although to this day there are still some who don't know Spanish. Anyway, the problem for these people is that their languages are ignored or discriminated by the mestizo majority and, in some cases, drifting to oblivion with every generation that passes. Some of them react by rejecting their culture and trying to adapt to the Spanish speaking establishment, others simply keep talking their language and teaching it to their children like they have aways done, and others react by taking more pride in their heritage and actively promoting it, but I've never heard any of them say "let's not speak Spanish, it's the language of the conquerors". That would be very impractical. As far as I know, they have no problem with Spanish as long as they can keep their languages alive and not be alienated for it. Itzcuintli ( talk) 05:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
Surprising to find much of this article poorly written. Just one example, "As the conservadores refused to recognized, the War of Reform began in 1858, both groups had their own governments, but ended in 1861 with the liberal victory led by Amerindian President Benito Juárez. In the 1860s underwent...." Plain bad writing.
Perhaps reword the part about declaring independence. Hidalgo and Allende didn't work together as implied here.-- Phil5329 ( talk) 03:50, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Independence day is incorrectly listed as September 15, 1810 in the country stats section on the right hand of the page. It should state September 16, 1810. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.90.245 ( talk) 22:29, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
This article, and the History section in particular, are full of run-on sentences and sentence fragments. I corrected one of them, but correcting the rest might be a good project for others to take up. Jrsightes ( talk) 08:40, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Can someone check that the information about current population for mexico city is correct?, I am quite sure they are living 22 million people not 19 million (this information is acording to the INEGI or national statistics and informatic institute. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Damianandrade ( talk • contribs) 00:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
This image will look good in the sports section can someone pleas add it. (unsigned)
1. There are already 2 images in that section.
2. Football (Soccer) and Baseball are Mexico's most popular sports.
3. Could we even consider "Lucha Libre" a real sport, we all know it's fake however entertaining it might be.
Supaman89 (
talk)
23:47, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Supaman89 ( talk) 03:05, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Add Mexico, with Switzerland and the Republic of Korea, form the Environmental Integrity Group (EIG). http://unfccc.int/parties_and_observers/parties/negotiating_groups/items/2714.php Switzerland signed the Kyoto Protocol in 1998 and ratified it in 2003, when did Mexico? The EIG is related to United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, currently the United Nations Climate Change Conference 2009 '"COP-15" in Copenhagen, Denmark, between December 7 and December 18, 2009. As for notability, this meeting has been called the most important meeting in history, for example ... for reference starting points, see Category:Climate crisis, Category:Global warming, Category:Climate change, Category:Stop Climate Chaos, Category:Global Campaign for Climate Action, Category:Action on climate change 99.155.157.151 ( talk) 16:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.155.157.151 ( talk) 16:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
The article has come to a point where we urgently need to fix it.
I see editors with hidden agendas adding content that is completely irrelevant to the article and that seems to me much more as fan talk than anything else. I lived in Mexico for many many years and I still have lots of contacts there. I closely follow the mexican press and I know:
Mentioning CEMEX, TELEVISA or AEROMEXICO in the article seem perfectly normal to me as they are internationally recognized companies that play a major role in the country in their respective fields. But Zonda Telecom? Really? Do people looking for information about MEXICO really need to know that Hydra Technologies won a prize that no one ever heard of?
To the editors that seem to have an special interest in having mentions to the above mentioned companies in THIS ARTICLE:
please explain why and how are these mentions worth including in an article that is supposed to be about A COUNTRY.
I'm once again removing this irrelevant content from the article the time being.
Before reverting this edit or replying, please read wikipedia's policies about undue weight thanks. Cerealito ( talk) 16:10, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
In order to achieve concensus in the Industry/communications section, I'm removing the image of Zonda Telecom but leaving the text mention. I've requested citations though; the information given is very dubious. Cerealito ( talk) 13:24, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Fellow wikipedian Rahlgd: I deeply regret that you keep adding content to the article that is not relevant to it. We have a serious discussion going on here and you just reverted changes without any further explanation. Reverting changes without any explanation is against wikipedia's spirit, so please take the time to explain your reverts in the future. Let me assure you once again that I don't have any kind of problem with private companies. Please stop insinuating that, it is simply not true. There are many mentions to them in the article and I have never attempted to delete them, I'm fine with them and I will try to add more if they make a better article.
The point here is: the mentions to Zonda Telecom and to Hydra technologies are completely out of scope. I've given you my reasons and replied to your arguments. Fellow wikipedian JorgeAranda gave you more reasons. Looking for a consensus I edited the article removing the images but leaving the text mentions and asking for further references. You responded with a revert and silence...
could you please at least read the concerned sections as they are? I'm waiting for your reasons and arguments, don't you think that we could get to an agreement? Cerealito ( talk) 21:00, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
I honestly do think that it is completely appropriate to have at least Zonda telecom mentioned in the communications section because they have contributed a lot to the Mexican telecom industry and have made large strides to advance mobile technology in Mexico and as far as not being recognized internationally i don't see why Zonda would not be considered multi-national considering the six meter high zonda mptrez billboards in Moscow. I do understand the your issue with Hydra however and i will not attempt to over state them in the science and technology section but i do think that we can have the Zonda phone in the communications article because even using the logic that Zonda is not big outside of Mexico (which is not entirely true) it is still a major company in Mexico and the article is about Mexico and that section is about the communications of Mexico. To not include zonda in the communications article would be like talking about the automotive industry of Japan and not mentioning Toyota or Honda. Rahlgd ( talk) 21:40, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Fellow wikipedian Rahlgd: You keep removing citation needed tags instead of adding sources. I couldn't find any reliable sources stating the information you insit to add to the article and that I find very very doubtful. I'm kindly but firmly requesting you to assume your burden of proof.
I'm also removing this statement: `Many Lanix products and other Mexican electronic products are marketed in the United States and Europe by Phillips, Sony and other companies under royalty agreements.` That was 'supported' upon this citation: http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/mexico/403485-1.html. As any editor will be able to see, that webpage has nothing to do with the Lanix corporation.
Cerealito ( talk) 20:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Well i don't know how else to prove to you that Zonda is major representative of the Mexican telecom industry. That's like asking someone for proof that Samsung is a major representative of the South Korean electronics industry. It's just common knowledge. And yes there are Zonda billboards in Moscow right outside of Domodedovo airport and in downtown which i have seen so i'm pretty sure Zonda is known in other countries. I don't know why your so transfixed on getting rid of Zonda Telecom. Why would you even try to delete it's main article? If anyone has a conflict of interests it looks more like you just have some problem with Zonda. Zonda is representative of the Mexican communications industry for the following reasons:
1.It's Mexicos first indigenous mobile phone designer and manufacturer
2.It's products are used by large companies such as Telcel and America Movil
3.It is a Mexican company that other foreigners may know about
4.It has a large revenue and is a major corporation in the cell phone industry in Mexico and is known in other countries
5.It has integrated very advanced technologies and has been the first Mexican company to implement these
6.It employs over 19,000 people!
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Rahlgd (
talk •
contribs)
17:37, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
In the absence of reliable sources, the poor relevance of the disputed content to the article and the lack of response from the interested editors, I'm once again deleting this information in spite of the lack of consensus.
Cerealito (
talk)
09:44, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
The information about Mexico's climate is poor because is missing much of the information of the northern desert climate and the extreme temperatures of 45 °C of more in the desert. {{ editsemiprotected}}-- Mario 181193 ( talk) 04:07, 12 November 2009 (UTC)Mario 181193
I think that this section should include the geography of the desert in Northen Mexico like in Sonora, Baja California, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, and small portions of Tamaulipas. It should include the extreme temperatures of 50 °C and upwards in the Sonoran Desert in Baja California and Sonora and the extreme temperatures of the major city Monterrey of 40°C adn upwards in summer time and that northern mexico is located at the same latitude of the deserts in northern africa and Saudi Arabia. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mario 181193 ( talk • contribs) 01:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
On the right section where it shows Mexico's declaration of Independence as sept 15 1810 that is incorrect the real date for Mexico's declaration of Independence is Sept 16 1810 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlochacon ( talk • contribs) 07:20, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
many of our modern foods now come from mexico do to all the imigrents takeing there culter with them, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thereal21 ( talk • contribs) 03:48, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
with population of 111 million, it is the 11th most populous country. Two amazeing to beleeve--all these 1s in a only place. is it be true? 70.153.208.164 ( talk) 23:36, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
This article has multiple issues, the most visible, perhaps, is the unnecessary amount of images. I've removed some myself (size has been reduced by nearly 8 KB), but I think it'd be better if there were a clear consensus concerning which images should be removed. Kraft. ( talk) 03:21, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I felt I had to revert the recent edits by user Rahlgd for the following reasons: First and most upsetting, Rahlgd vandalized some numbers, such as the estimate of population in prehispanic times. Second, he continues to add pictures to an article that has already been discussed, several times in the past, as having too many of them. Third, several of the pictures suggest personal bias or conflict of interest issues. Fourth, some of the edits consist of dozens of small changes, few of them objectionable on their own, but together they add up to present the subject matter on a very different tone than what had been agreed by the community before --this is notable in the Industry and Military sections. I am sorry to revert other people's edits along with this. JorgeAranda ( talk) 19:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
The numbers in the pre-hispanic times were sourced from national geographic. Also while you mean good faith in your revert you also reverted other peoples work and shouldn't have just reverted everything. If you want to get rid of some images, we should go over them instead of just reverting the whole thing. Also i am confused on how any of the images are a conflict of interest. I am going to revert the most recent edit and from there we can then decide what we should change. Rahlgd ( talk) 21:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Ah okay that sounds reasonable. Okay then, i'll not add information that might sound dubious without sourcing then. Sorry if i added thing that could be portrayed in a personally advancing manner, i realize what you mean now. I must disagree on the statement that Aztec dancers don't relate to Mexico. I'm not at all advocating the removal of of the other image in the culture section but i think that there can be both without the article having too many images. Rahlgd ( talk) 18:10, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I only want to point out the fact that Raghld has attacked me in a very uncivil way. He went for "help" to other user talk page kinda spreading a prejudice against me. He said that I'm against native Mexicans because I find the Aztec dancer picture not suitable for the culture section. WE have given him our arguments, yet he decides to make this a personal battle. So I'm not sure how productive is to "talk" to Raghgl, when it seems that the only thing that matters to him is to get the things done his way. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 00:54, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
My thoughts: The Aztec dancers are folkloric dancers since they are predominantly a custom of the common people (hence the name Folkloric). These dancers are also found in professional schools of dancing and theater across Mexico. They have a very wide presence all over Mexico (even in the U.S.) and vary in style from amateur to professional. I have seen Aztec and other native American style dancers perform in the prestigious Teatro Degollado in Guadalajara Jalisco alongside other folkloric dances. As the people in this discussion have already said: these sub-sections are stubs and only the most general and wide ranging elements should be used as brief narratives, details should be saved for the main articles. In short words, we must stick to the "stereotypes," that is, those images that are immediately identifiable by the widest audience possible as being Mexican for the sake of overview. Putting up an image of an Aztec dancer will not affect the article at all and they are just as legitimate as the Charro if anyone wants to argue that only Mexican folkloric images should be included.
Also, You guys have hit a very complex snag which is basically the tip of a social iceberg. I have noticed that there is an ongoing battle in the Mexican community over conflicting identities with some arguing towards the Hispanic image while the rest argue towards the indigenous image with the "mestizo" awkwardly stuck in the middle. It's no mystery that the poorest people in Mexico are the indigenous and the upper classes are predominantly white Hispanics. Mexican politics and the media contain a mostly white staff despite the fact that the majority of Mexicans are darker. The racism and racial stratification that is a legacy of colonialism is still very present in Mexican society and attitudes. Many Mexicans are just resentful of Hispanicism and want nothing to do with a Hispanic identity thus lean and identify with the indigenous ancestry and heritage and try to uproot the Hispanic element. This is happening because Mexicans are feeling discriminated in their own country as the Mexican media mostly caters to a white upper class audience and promotes a culture that feels alien and foreign to the common Mexican. This harbors a cultural cringe as a result of the upper entrepreneurial classes judging the common Mexican to be inherently inept at being independent and autonomous which causes them to have to import almost every complex and manufactured thing (technology, training, machinery etc) from Europe or the United States while at the same time diminishing incentive and initiative in Mexican society. The resulting inferiority complex is only exasperated by the government and the upper classes welcoming all types of foreign nationals while deliberately oppressing it's own people as it.
Now I think I have gone way off subject. I only wanted to give a very brief explanation of what is happening behind this seemingly simple debate. These are very murky waters in the middle of a storm so the best advice I can give here is to stick with the facts and keep idealism and opinion at bay. Keep it simple as well because if you get into too much detail you will end up with the paragraph I wrote above. The article should only include what is relevant and encyclopedic, I personally believe that pictures are better than plain text. The number of pictures should be limited to somewhere between 1 and 3 if the text is long enough, and they should be relevant to the subject. Ocelotl10293 ( talk) 03:09, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I have never heard of such a thing... is there a reference? Snow is common in the Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt (a.k.a. Sierra Nevada). In fact, the picture shows pine trees, which are not common of the Sierra Madre del Sur, but are very common of the Sierra Nevada. The author of the pic, describes it as "Snow in the mountains of central Mexico", but Sierra Madre del Sur does not cross central Mexico. -- the Dúnadan 16:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I noticed that recently someone changed the history section by adding a heading that said 20th century. That got me thinking that maybe we could expand the history section and provide more in depth explanations of specific times or Era's like in the Russia article. I think this would be a great way to improve the article and it would give a lot more understanding especially if each section in the history area explained how these specific times effected the people and influenced specific cultural or societal aspects. If anyone has ideas please share them here. Thanks, Rahlgd ( talk) 19:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
I saw AlexCovarrubias and Bambuway working on this sentence in the lead: "Despite Mexico's position as an emerging power [2], the increase in drug-related violence and uneven income distribution remain issues of concern."
It appears that Mexico is a middle power and an emerging market. However, when I read the whole sentence, I started to feel that it is not quite right. Here's the problem: the structure of the sentence is "Despite the fact that X is true, Y is true." The use of the word "despite" suggests that one would expect Y not to be true when X is true but that in this particular case Y is surprisingly true. If we look at the list of middle powers in the middle power article and the list of Emerging markets, there are several other countries that also have drug-related violence (Colombia) and uneven income distribution (Brazil, India, Phillipines, Indonesia). Thus, I don't think the sentence gives the reader the right impression so I deleted it. There's no problem with either half of the sentence. It's just that when joined together with "Despite", the sentence implies something that is not true which is that it is exceptional for a middle power or an emerging market to have drug-related violence and/or uneven income distribution.
-- Richard S ( talk) 18:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
For some reason, the U.S. or Wikipedia considers Mexico as a country since 1821. That is a totally different and disrespectful point of view to the Mexicans'. Mexico will celebrate it's Bicentenary in 2010. For Mexicans an for nowadays Spanish too, Mexico is a country since 1910. The 100 year anniversary was in 1910. 2010 is the year of the big bicentennial celebrations. Wikipedia has to change their wrong and disrespectful point of view. In 1821 the Spaniards (the ones from Spain, the ones from Mexico considered themselves Mexicans) finally gave up and signed, but for Mexicans, this doesn't mean that they were not a country since 1910. This is true not only for Mexico, but for many other countries in Latin America, and if you have any doubt of it, Spain is going to be present in the bicentennial of all these Latin American countries. Spain also acknowledges 1910 as the big date. Why the U.S. doesn't? This is true in many references to the History of Texas, the history of Arizona, and many more, where they state that Arizona became independent from Spain in 1821. Mexicans had their own congress long before, even if the Spaniards repeteadely killed their leaders. That should be revised. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.93.16 ( talk) 15:48, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Typo noted:
"In the 2009-20012 Congress of the Union, seven parties are therein represented; four of them, however, have not received neither in this nor in previous congresses more than 4% of the national votes.[80]"
Should be changed to: "In the 2009-2012 Congress of the Union, seven parties are therein represented; four of them, however, have not received neither in this nor in previous congresses more than 4% of the national votes.[80]"
im jimmys friend \ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.79.111.6 ( talk) 15:40, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
No way 30% of Mexican exports go to Brazil. That has to be corrected because that information is false.-- 88.24.242.195 ( talk) 05:07, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
The old history of this page from 2001 and most of 2002 can be found at Talk:Mexico/Old version. Graham 87 07:06, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
I am very confused and frustrated. One user is replacing the official name of Mexico to a strange version in Náhuatl language. I have reverted his changed twice but he seem not to understand. The infobox requires the official name of the country. The official name given in the Political Constitution of the United Mexican States is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos", in Spanish.
On the other hand, this "issue" has been discussed in the past and the resolution has always been that the official name is in Spanish, even if it is a de facto language not officialized in any part of the constitution. There is no other official name for the country.
Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 08:29, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Is the Constitution of Mexico written is Spanish (or Mexican Spanish, as you may want to call it), or is it written in 64 (63 plus Spanish) languages? what is the official name in that document? Was it written (and approved/signed) in one of the native languages and then translated into Spanish and (possibly) the other 62 languages? what is the foficial name in that doc? Is it translated into 63 other languages or is it translated to 63 other langagues plus various others languages (such as English, French, etc) possibly without any other official approval? Maybe it was written in Spanish and then translated into the 63 other languages. what is the official name in those docs? You may want to call the original document the Constitution was written and signed/approved on, the official document, and work from there for what constitutes the official name of the country.
Consider also that, as it is the case with other countries, there may be more than one official language and, form there, more than one official name of the country, that is, an official country name in Spanish, an official country name in Náhuatl, and (who knows?) an official country name in English, French, German, etc for the rest of the world. Consider then what consititutes "official", Is official only something that is put out by the Federal Mexican government? Or is official also if some other official body says so? the Federal Mexican Judicial branch? the federal Mexican executive branch? or because it is the name for Mexico in the Int'l World Court of Justice? Or the UN???... maybe the United Nations has an official name for Mexico (in each of its 7 authorized languages)...?
Consider also that to the rest of the world the de facto language in Mexico is Spanish. I am not going to take the time here, but I believe we could easily find most (all?) international organizations state Spanish is the official language in Mexico IF they had to pick one from its 63 languages, just based on the fact it is the one most widely used there. This may help work out your differences. Just population the infobox field "Official county name" with one the country name in one of the 62 other recognized languages of Mexico just to make a point (in particular when Spanish is the lingua franca) doesn't do anyone any good.
Also if the issue has been discussed before, and resolved in favor of Spanish, you may want to show the wiki diff for such resolution. Issues that have received consensus among editors are very rarely changed again.
Further, be sure everyone understands (and agrees on) the difference between lingua franca (de facto) language, recognized language (or recognized native language), and official language.
Finally, I'd suggest you don't lose focus of the fact that the issue here is not, What is the official language of Mexico, but instead, what is the official name for Mexico. Regards, Mercy11 ( talk) 14:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
I think we can make a compromise and publish both. While Mexico's most spoken language by far is Spanish, the name Mexico is in fact derived from it's Nahuatl name, Mēxihco. The nation info box does not ask for the official name but for the native name so both can and should be present and if anything the Nahuatl has a more valid reason to be there but for the sake of reality Spanish must be included as well. And yes the Indigenous names all are equally as valid by law. The Spanish name should go under the common long name category of the Infobox. If i was to go to a government office and request official paperwork but i didn't speak Spanish and only Nahuatl then the government is legally obliged to provide me with those papers in Nahuatl, even though this dosen't happen many times it is law and these languages and their names for Mexico share just as much equal validity as Spanish. To answer another statement,the constitution has been published in Yucatec Mayan, Zapotec and it has been translated into Nahuatl before, so i don't know why they're making a big thing about it in that article, probably because it's the offial copy of the document translated by the Federal government. Regarding the comment that most people know Spanish to be the offical language of Mexico: Wikipedia is meant to explain true things not reinforce incorrect information even if most poeple incorrectly think that it's common knowledge. Based on the fact that Mēxihco is the native name given to Mexico i think it should be included. There are multiple names which can legally be regarded as legal official names fo Mexico, the same way that there are eleven legal official names for South Africa, in English, Afrikaans, Venda, Tsonga and other languages. And you can't say that Mexico's de facto official language is Spanish because there is no government odcument that says it is and many Mexican people still don't use Spanish as their main "de facto" language with some not even knowing how to speak Spanish. Rahlgd ( talk) 06:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Actually in all honesty and fairness, I do think we should have the name in as many languages as possible, with a drop-down list as is used in the South Africa article, so yes if i did know what the name for the country was in other indigenous languages i would use them. The fact of the matter is that the original name that Mexico is derived from is it's Nahuatl name and i do think we should have the Spanish and Nahuatl names (I don't have a problem with leaving the Spanish name there as well. I am not the user that keeps removing the Spanish name.) I see no reason to remove the Nahuatl name if the Spanish name is kept. Spanish is the most spoken language in Mexico and therefore must be kept and the original name for Mexico is the Nahuatl name, Mēxihco so it should be kept as well. Rahlgd ( talk) 19:11, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for all the input. I just want all of you to notice that despite the fact that the issue is still on discussion, Rahgdl has introduced again his personal POV, reverting not only my edit, but Jorge Aranda's and SamEV's. That's just plainly uncivil and very childish. Some points:
Thanks for reading and sorry if I'm a little agressive, but to be honest, I'm very desperated and frustrated. Why should one person change the stability gained in YEARS of honest work by several users, just based in loose arguments? Pardon me. =( Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 02:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
In the Nahuatl translations of the Mexican constitution the official name of The United Mexican States is given as Mēxihcatl Tlacetilīlli Tlahtohcāyōtl which translates literally into "Mexican United States" this proves that the Spanish name is the official name only in Spanish not in all languages. And for some reason you seem to have the concept that the Spanish name is the only "local language" which is incorrect as all languages which are legally national languages are local languages. The reason that the country's Spanish name was given in the constitution was because the document was written in Spanish. I am not trying to say that Nahuatl is as widely spoken as Spanish but i am saying it is just as valid a name to add. And you said "Why should one person change the stability gained in YEARS of honest work by several users, just based in loose arguments?" well just because something is stable dosen't mean it's correct and even if there is only one user trying to change something than they have a right too if they have a credible reason to change something. And by the way there are multiple editors arguing for this not only me. Things shouldn't be left the way they are just because they have been like that for a long time. If that was the argument given than no progress would ever be made. And please don't give the argument that i am being uncivil by reverting edits because you do the exact same thing to me and 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) and i provided reason and explanation of my changes. Rahlgd ( talk) 06:14, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm trying to keep an even position while we figure this out by keeping both the Nahuatl and Spanish but you keep deleting the Nahuatl and Yucatec Maya therefore not giving a fair balance for the time being. Please leave both until we all reach a consensus. Rahlgd ( talk) 09:21, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Let me try to disentangle this. There are two sets of edits going on simultaneously here. The first is about the "native name" of the country in the infobox. The second is the list of names and pronunciations of the country in several of its languages in the first paragraph of the article.
Regarding the infobox edits, a comparison with other countries is useful. The articles on Guatemala, Honduras, and Nicaragua, among others, show their names in English and Spanish only, even though they have other official languages as well. The infobox on the United States article does not acknowledge any native languages. The article on Spain has the name in Spanish (Castillian), but not in Basque, Catalan, or any other of its languages. For the People's Republic of China we get what I think is Mandarin and Cantonese, but not any of its other recognized languages. The article on South Africa, as has already been pointed out, has the name in English and a drop down with the other ten official languages of the country.
I think the example of South Africa is the most enlightened: by default the list of names does not distract from the content of the article, but readers can easily see the name of the country in its other official languages if they wish to. So, considering that significant minorities of Mexico speak Nahuatl (about 1.5%) and Yucatec Maya (about 1%), perhaps we could reach a compromise by including the name of the country in those languages in a drop down list, as with South Africa. We could also include the name of the country in its other commonly used languages. If the list becomes unwieldy (at 63, it would), a separate page with the list of names could be created.
Regarding the first paragraph of the article, can we agree that it has become too cluttered with the latest additions? None of the articles of the other countries that I listed include the name and pronunciation of the country in more than one of its official or recognized languages. Considering that Spanish is the lingua franca in Mexico, I see no reason to clutter the paragraph with all of the other names and pronunciations. JorgeAranda ( talk) 14:55, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
:I agree entirely.
SamEV (
talk)
21:05, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I just read the whole discution, and IMHO I don't think it's a good idea to put all the Amerindian languages in a list form either. Mexico's de facto language is Spanish, it is spoken by more than 97% of the population and it is indeed almost the "native language" of the country if you will, for better or for worst it has been the main language of Mexico ever since its creation (back in the New Spain). I'm all in favour of mentioning the other amerindian languages that exist in the country in their respective section, but trying to put them in the same level as Spanish is realistically speaking not true. If there were just a few Amerindian languages (such as South Africa's case) I could agree to put them in a list, but there are 62 of them, we just can't put them all, and selecting some of them over others is completely arbitrary and "unfair" to the rest of them.
As Jorge Aranda mentioned above, let's look at the examples from other articles, Spain for example does have a real linguistic diversity, almost every region has its own language and its inhabitants do speak that language along with Spanish, nonetheless the Spain article only shows Spanish in its infobox. Now Mexico unlike Spain does not have a real multilinguistic society, almost all of Mexico's population speaks Spanish only, don't you think it's a bit too pushy trying to over highlight these Amerindian languages despites the fact that they don't play a bigger roll than say Welsh does in the UK or Alsatian does in France? Again for better or for worst that's just the way it is. Supaman89 ( talk) 05:53, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm leaving for somedays, and these days I'll not edit the article. But this means nothing for my attitude of this issue, that is, I keep the right of state "still not consensus" and edit this article when I'm back in Feb. 23rd GMT+8. Have a good day! -- 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ( talk) 15:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I have added a second citation ( CIA World Fact Book) that indicates Mexico's local name is the Spanish language Estados Unidos Mexicanos. This brings to 2 the number of sources complying with WP:RS that attest that Mexico's official local name is the Spanish language Estados Unidos Mexicanos vs. 0 for the number of reliable sources attesting the official local name is the Nahuatl language Mēxihcatl Tlacetilīlli Tlahtohcāyōtl. I am of the opinion that this is now a closed matter. I am also of the opinion that any further discussion here will most likely be an exercise in futility. Should further discussion be warranted I remind everyone that there are other options available: wp:dr, wp:an, and wp:civil. Regards, Mercy11 ( talk) 23:10, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Now I'm interpreting my "I have the following points" and giving a response to SamEV's "nothing of substance" inference, AlexCovarrubias's "most used (98% +) - lingua franca - non-official" point (it's just one of my points), JorgeAranda's amount-otherstuff argument and other comments that may exists. And after
-- 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ( talk) 10:25, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
“ | There're 63 government recognized "native languages" | ” |
“ | Again there's no federal official language of Mexico, even though Mexican Spanish is the current lingua franca. | ” |
“ | Mexico's native languages includes 63 official recognized national languages | ” |
Yú Hǎi, it seems that the source of the disagreement is that you interpret native language in the Infobox as language of Aboriginal people, whereas we, and the great majority of editors for the rest of the Country articles where this box appears, interpret it as local language. We've tried to explain this several times. The role of the Infobox is to provide some basic demographic information about the country, not to give a lesson about where the name "Mexico" originally comes from, nor to highlight the linguistic richness of the country. The edits you propose detract from the goal of the Infobox. They are even more out of place in the lead paragraph of the main article. JorgeAranda ( talk) 14:46, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Till now, ...not finished (unfinished reply)...-- 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ( talk) 09:28, 3 March 2010 (UTC)