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"Negro: someone of African descendant or with very dark skin (not considered offensive)" This is not an archaism at all in Spain, so I'm deleting it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.44.168.15 ( talk) 14:12, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I think this "Mexican Spanish" is totally inaccurate, I am also from Jalisco and do agree that Alteño Spanish (seperate from Jalisco Spanish) does sound a lot like european Spanish. To back up the first response about Blacks, in Méjico we do use the term negro for a black mexican. I think there's only a small black population in southern part. Simón and Padre and such are rarely used only by the people even kids who think they're cool. Most of these words were created in that connotation in the US not even in Méjico. We should rewrite this article someone who has lived in Méjico for several years instead of someone in the US. As far as of Vosotros we do use it, I find it annoying when people say Vosotros is absent in Mexico, if I recall you can hear it in the streets of Los Altos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mendezdelcamino ( talk • contribs) 01:01, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Are you even mexican? I am and I've never seen a mexican write "Méjico" instead of México, didn't they teach you the right spelling at school?, I could understand it if you're from Spain but.. came on. Also padre and simón are common among young people. I've been to and met several people from the "altos de Jalisco" (if that's what you meant by "alteño") and trust me they don't sound at all like spanish people, where did you get that from? Vosotros is for all intents and prurposes absent in mexican spanish. You might only find it in the bible or Don Quijote,I've NEVER heard a mexican use it spontaneously, you say it is used in Los Altos, can you back up that claim? I doubt you can... 189.183.19.227 ( talk) 22:20, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
The article, like others have stated, makes sense to anyone wanting to get a sense of the differences between European and Mexican Spanish. It's not an article about the differences in dialects between the states. The article would be HUGE, since every state is DIFFERENT. For example you talk about padre and simon...My family is from Northern Mexico and I hear it ALL the time. Calling someone negro (or Oaxaco) in Sinaloa IS offensive. It means you're extremely dark, (compared to the rest of the Sinaloenses who tend to be light-skinned, blond etc), and are usually immigrants from the south etc. The article stands well. 165.196.139.141 ( talk) 21:59, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
I have to say this article is perfectly written., All those words are used by young mexicans on informal context.I have never heard ¿Qué tanto cuesta? (As opposed to "¿Cuánto cuesta?") (How much/many is it?). I also have to notice that in mexico we say mexico not "mejico" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.139.182.228 ( talk) 07:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
First off, this article does a perfect job of mentioning some of the differences between standard European Spanish and Mexican Spanish; however, it does not cite references and some sentences sound POV. This article needs a moderate improvement and clean up, but I'd say it's written intuitively. -- 72.223.63.167 ( talk) 00:48, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Is there anybody who has enough knowledge of the primary Mexico dialect of Spanish and the IPA to create a nice phonetic chart for the language? I know it's contrasted with traditional Castellano in Spain, such as the production of 'v'. Castellano uses the 'b' sound, but all the Spanish speakers at my high school use a 'v'. I just want clarification. Ryoga-2003 ( talk) 03:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I have a proposed vowel chart that could be placed here.
₭øμt̪ũ 00:48, 9 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Komtu ( talk • contribs)
I live in San Marcos Texas, and I have spoke to plenty of Mexican nationals at the Outlet Mall here (in Spanish of course), in which most of them are from Coahuila or el distrito federal (la Cuidad de Mexico), and I have heard none of them reduce their vowels, or pronounce any schwas. They have all tended to pronounce their vowels like ordinary Spanish speakers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.242.125 ( talk) 17:36, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
The article New Mexican Spanish (which is linked from the term "Ladino" in this article) is about the historically isolated dialect, with archaic features, spoken mainly in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado. Why is (La) Mesilla, a town near the southern border of New Mexico, given as an example of that northern New Mexico variety?
The term "Ladino" is followed by "(as if it were ancient Castilian)". What is the unspoken assumption about "Ladino" here, and how can it be made explicit in the article? (A reader new to the term would have no preconceptions about its meaning.) The term "ancient" applied to "Castilian" is odd. The oldest Castilian or Spanish can rightly be called "medieval", as it came into being in the Middle Ages (roughly 1,000 years ago); "ancient" generally refers to the period prior to the Middle Ages (think of the Roman Empire). If the intended meaning is Old Spanish, I'm still puzzled: What's the hidden assumption about "Ladino" and Old Spanish?
Finally, why is northern New Mexico archaic Spanish mentioned at all in this article? It's "Mexican" Spanish only in a pre-1848 sense. With all due respect for the territorial issues following the Mexican-American War, I think most readers will expect the article on Mexican Spanish to focus on the language of present-day Mexico. Kotabatubara ( talk) 21:30, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
I live in Mesilla, that section is total nonsense. 69.171.160.245 ( talk)
Also, "macho" is not from Nahuatl, it comes from Latin "Masculus" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.160.245 ( talk) 17:31, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
There's no /ʎ/ sound in Mexican Spanish so I thik it should be deleted from the chart. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost sure there's no variety of Mexican Spanish that has that sound. Mexico is totally yeísta. So I'm deleting it. Guidoylosfreaks ( talk) 22:20, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
"In the Jalicense, Bajío, Oaxaqueño and Yucateco variants of Mexican Spanish ‹z› is pronounced as [z] rather than the standard Spanish pronunciation where the letters ‹s› and ‹z› are both pronounced as [s] In the Defeño variant ‹z› can be pronounced interchangeably between [z] and [s] although [z] seems to be preferred." never hear of this, and the paragraph doesn't have sources. The only thing I found in Spanish was a blog in a doblaje estudio that said that the ‹z› was a vibrating ‹s›. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.52.49.70 ( talk) 17:09, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Found this in the "Variation" section:
This waste of space should not even be on the internet -Rajah
Don't have time to review and see if other damage was done. Thought I'd post here for future reference if someone wanted to look into it. cluth ( talk) 14:37, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
I disagree with the explanation stated as:
Pelo chino means curly hair.[24] The word chino derives from the Spanish word cochino, meaning "pig".[24] The phrase referenced the casta known as chino which was an Indian and African mix whose hair was curly.[24] This term is sometimes mistakenly thought to derive from the word chino meaning "Chinese".[24]
In the XVI century, there was a constant incursion from Mexico to the islands of the Pacific, many of this islands had black native population, some of them were brought to Mexico for different reasons but for the local population (People living in the New Spain), they were the first blacks they ever seen in their lives. Also, everything that was beyond the Pacific Ocean it was considered China at the time, with no distinction between China and Asia, it was considered China, anything that came to the Pacific ports came from "China", including this black people, they were the first "Chinese" that we met. Also because they had their hair curly, the relation was made, Curly hair = Chinese hair, "Pelo de Chino"~"Pelo Chino".
Some other influences of the time remain, like the China Poblana.
I think the reference 24 ( Hernández Cuevas, M.P. The Mexican Colonial Term "Chino" Is a Referent of Afrodescendant. The Journal of Pan African Studies, vol.5, no.5, June 2012.) made a mistake and has to be reviewed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gamorro ( talk • contribs) 04:38, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Pls protect page agaisnt US immigrant, he has not the slightest idea for Mexican Spanish. -- Janiselgar ( talk) 01:49, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Why the convoluted proposed origin of "Macho" through an obscure Nahuatl word, when there is a much simpler explanation? Surely it comes from the Spanish word "macho," meaning "male?" In support of this idea is the fact that macho is used throughout Latin America to mean a manly person, and is not specific to Mexico. TCSaint ( talk) 13:42, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
ActiveSingQuant, please explain your reversion of 21:47, 17 August 2015. I revised the vocabulary entries to be more concise and more consistent (easier to read). It is standard practice in writing about linguistics to give a specimen word in italics followed directly by its gloss (meaning) in quotation marks; it is unnecessary to say "means", or "the word for", or "would be". It is Wikipedia policy to give at least a brief explanation of your edit. What is yours? Kotabatubara ( talk) 23:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
Looking at Nahuatl#Phonology I see "simple" more than once. Is "consonant-complex" the right term in this article? I considered replacing it with "consonant-rich", which would mean having an unusually large inventory of consonants, but this doesn't seem justified by the phoneme chart either. Any suggestions? Kotabatubara ( talk) 15:49, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
With regard to the section "Media influence in Mexico and abroad"—I gave the section a thorough copyeditor's overhaul; but as I did so, I began to wonder if all that verbiage belongs in this article. There is, after all, a separate article Fresa, to which much of the discussion in this section could be transferred and incorporated. Does anyone besides me find the section excessively wordy, and chatty, for an encyclopedia article? It seems to need slimming down, but I'm not familiar enough with Mexican TV to do it myself. Kotabatubara ( talk) 18:38, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
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I quote: "* es todo: used when something comes handy to the person expressing it. Literally, that's all." What does "comes handy" mean? Kotabatubara ( talk) 12:28, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
Can someone verify the labialised vowels? Are they actually like this? This is not mentioned anywhere else, and there's no citation.
73.231.181.239 ( talk) 22:52, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Much of the information here is from the website below. It's pretty easy to tell because they even use the same examples as illustrations. Credit/footnotes have to be added.
https://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/i.e.mackenzie/mexico.htm
Greece666 ( talk) 17:21, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
According to infobox: "Native speakers 133 million (2018)"
According to Mexico article, 2020 Census had 126 million and 2022 estimate has 129 million. So, that means there were more native speakers already in 2018 than there are Mexicans in 2022. 93.106.177.245 ( talk) 06:15, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
The section discussing seseo gives only a very brief description of it which requires a fairly comprehensive understanding of IPA. Seseo itself is not actually described, but rather a consequence of seseo. JosephBw ( talk) 23:47, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 April 2019 and 10 June 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Carmen A. H..
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
"Negro: someone of African descendant or with very dark skin (not considered offensive)" This is not an archaism at all in Spain, so I'm deleting it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.44.168.15 ( talk) 14:12, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I think this "Mexican Spanish" is totally inaccurate, I am also from Jalisco and do agree that Alteño Spanish (seperate from Jalisco Spanish) does sound a lot like european Spanish. To back up the first response about Blacks, in Méjico we do use the term negro for a black mexican. I think there's only a small black population in southern part. Simón and Padre and such are rarely used only by the people even kids who think they're cool. Most of these words were created in that connotation in the US not even in Méjico. We should rewrite this article someone who has lived in Méjico for several years instead of someone in the US. As far as of Vosotros we do use it, I find it annoying when people say Vosotros is absent in Mexico, if I recall you can hear it in the streets of Los Altos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mendezdelcamino ( talk • contribs) 01:01, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Are you even mexican? I am and I've never seen a mexican write "Méjico" instead of México, didn't they teach you the right spelling at school?, I could understand it if you're from Spain but.. came on. Also padre and simón are common among young people. I've been to and met several people from the "altos de Jalisco" (if that's what you meant by "alteño") and trust me they don't sound at all like spanish people, where did you get that from? Vosotros is for all intents and prurposes absent in mexican spanish. You might only find it in the bible or Don Quijote,I've NEVER heard a mexican use it spontaneously, you say it is used in Los Altos, can you back up that claim? I doubt you can... 189.183.19.227 ( talk) 22:20, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
The article, like others have stated, makes sense to anyone wanting to get a sense of the differences between European and Mexican Spanish. It's not an article about the differences in dialects between the states. The article would be HUGE, since every state is DIFFERENT. For example you talk about padre and simon...My family is from Northern Mexico and I hear it ALL the time. Calling someone negro (or Oaxaco) in Sinaloa IS offensive. It means you're extremely dark, (compared to the rest of the Sinaloenses who tend to be light-skinned, blond etc), and are usually immigrants from the south etc. The article stands well. 165.196.139.141 ( talk) 21:59, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
I have to say this article is perfectly written., All those words are used by young mexicans on informal context.I have never heard ¿Qué tanto cuesta? (As opposed to "¿Cuánto cuesta?") (How much/many is it?). I also have to notice that in mexico we say mexico not "mejico" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.139.182.228 ( talk) 07:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
First off, this article does a perfect job of mentioning some of the differences between standard European Spanish and Mexican Spanish; however, it does not cite references and some sentences sound POV. This article needs a moderate improvement and clean up, but I'd say it's written intuitively. -- 72.223.63.167 ( talk) 00:48, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Is there anybody who has enough knowledge of the primary Mexico dialect of Spanish and the IPA to create a nice phonetic chart for the language? I know it's contrasted with traditional Castellano in Spain, such as the production of 'v'. Castellano uses the 'b' sound, but all the Spanish speakers at my high school use a 'v'. I just want clarification. Ryoga-2003 ( talk) 03:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I have a proposed vowel chart that could be placed here.
₭øμt̪ũ 00:48, 9 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Komtu ( talk • contribs)
I live in San Marcos Texas, and I have spoke to plenty of Mexican nationals at the Outlet Mall here (in Spanish of course), in which most of them are from Coahuila or el distrito federal (la Cuidad de Mexico), and I have heard none of them reduce their vowels, or pronounce any schwas. They have all tended to pronounce their vowels like ordinary Spanish speakers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.242.125 ( talk) 17:36, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
The article New Mexican Spanish (which is linked from the term "Ladino" in this article) is about the historically isolated dialect, with archaic features, spoken mainly in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado. Why is (La) Mesilla, a town near the southern border of New Mexico, given as an example of that northern New Mexico variety?
The term "Ladino" is followed by "(as if it were ancient Castilian)". What is the unspoken assumption about "Ladino" here, and how can it be made explicit in the article? (A reader new to the term would have no preconceptions about its meaning.) The term "ancient" applied to "Castilian" is odd. The oldest Castilian or Spanish can rightly be called "medieval", as it came into being in the Middle Ages (roughly 1,000 years ago); "ancient" generally refers to the period prior to the Middle Ages (think of the Roman Empire). If the intended meaning is Old Spanish, I'm still puzzled: What's the hidden assumption about "Ladino" and Old Spanish?
Finally, why is northern New Mexico archaic Spanish mentioned at all in this article? It's "Mexican" Spanish only in a pre-1848 sense. With all due respect for the territorial issues following the Mexican-American War, I think most readers will expect the article on Mexican Spanish to focus on the language of present-day Mexico. Kotabatubara ( talk) 21:30, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
I live in Mesilla, that section is total nonsense. 69.171.160.245 ( talk)
Also, "macho" is not from Nahuatl, it comes from Latin "Masculus" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.160.245 ( talk) 17:31, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
There's no /ʎ/ sound in Mexican Spanish so I thik it should be deleted from the chart. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost sure there's no variety of Mexican Spanish that has that sound. Mexico is totally yeísta. So I'm deleting it. Guidoylosfreaks ( talk) 22:20, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
"In the Jalicense, Bajío, Oaxaqueño and Yucateco variants of Mexican Spanish ‹z› is pronounced as [z] rather than the standard Spanish pronunciation where the letters ‹s› and ‹z› are both pronounced as [s] In the Defeño variant ‹z› can be pronounced interchangeably between [z] and [s] although [z] seems to be preferred." never hear of this, and the paragraph doesn't have sources. The only thing I found in Spanish was a blog in a doblaje estudio that said that the ‹z› was a vibrating ‹s›. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.52.49.70 ( talk) 17:09, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Found this in the "Variation" section:
This waste of space should not even be on the internet -Rajah
Don't have time to review and see if other damage was done. Thought I'd post here for future reference if someone wanted to look into it. cluth ( talk) 14:37, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
I disagree with the explanation stated as:
Pelo chino means curly hair.[24] The word chino derives from the Spanish word cochino, meaning "pig".[24] The phrase referenced the casta known as chino which was an Indian and African mix whose hair was curly.[24] This term is sometimes mistakenly thought to derive from the word chino meaning "Chinese".[24]
In the XVI century, there was a constant incursion from Mexico to the islands of the Pacific, many of this islands had black native population, some of them were brought to Mexico for different reasons but for the local population (People living in the New Spain), they were the first blacks they ever seen in their lives. Also, everything that was beyond the Pacific Ocean it was considered China at the time, with no distinction between China and Asia, it was considered China, anything that came to the Pacific ports came from "China", including this black people, they were the first "Chinese" that we met. Also because they had their hair curly, the relation was made, Curly hair = Chinese hair, "Pelo de Chino"~"Pelo Chino".
Some other influences of the time remain, like the China Poblana.
I think the reference 24 ( Hernández Cuevas, M.P. The Mexican Colonial Term "Chino" Is a Referent of Afrodescendant. The Journal of Pan African Studies, vol.5, no.5, June 2012.) made a mistake and has to be reviewed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gamorro ( talk • contribs) 04:38, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Pls protect page agaisnt US immigrant, he has not the slightest idea for Mexican Spanish. -- Janiselgar ( talk) 01:49, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Why the convoluted proposed origin of "Macho" through an obscure Nahuatl word, when there is a much simpler explanation? Surely it comes from the Spanish word "macho," meaning "male?" In support of this idea is the fact that macho is used throughout Latin America to mean a manly person, and is not specific to Mexico. TCSaint ( talk) 13:42, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
ActiveSingQuant, please explain your reversion of 21:47, 17 August 2015. I revised the vocabulary entries to be more concise and more consistent (easier to read). It is standard practice in writing about linguistics to give a specimen word in italics followed directly by its gloss (meaning) in quotation marks; it is unnecessary to say "means", or "the word for", or "would be". It is Wikipedia policy to give at least a brief explanation of your edit. What is yours? Kotabatubara ( talk) 23:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
Looking at Nahuatl#Phonology I see "simple" more than once. Is "consonant-complex" the right term in this article? I considered replacing it with "consonant-rich", which would mean having an unusually large inventory of consonants, but this doesn't seem justified by the phoneme chart either. Any suggestions? Kotabatubara ( talk) 15:49, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
With regard to the section "Media influence in Mexico and abroad"—I gave the section a thorough copyeditor's overhaul; but as I did so, I began to wonder if all that verbiage belongs in this article. There is, after all, a separate article Fresa, to which much of the discussion in this section could be transferred and incorporated. Does anyone besides me find the section excessively wordy, and chatty, for an encyclopedia article? It seems to need slimming down, but I'm not familiar enough with Mexican TV to do it myself. Kotabatubara ( talk) 18:38, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mexican Spanish. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I quote: "* es todo: used when something comes handy to the person expressing it. Literally, that's all." What does "comes handy" mean? Kotabatubara ( talk) 12:28, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
Can someone verify the labialised vowels? Are they actually like this? This is not mentioned anywhere else, and there's no citation.
73.231.181.239 ( talk) 22:52, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Much of the information here is from the website below. It's pretty easy to tell because they even use the same examples as illustrations. Credit/footnotes have to be added.
https://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/i.e.mackenzie/mexico.htm
Greece666 ( talk) 17:21, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
According to infobox: "Native speakers 133 million (2018)"
According to Mexico article, 2020 Census had 126 million and 2022 estimate has 129 million. So, that means there were more native speakers already in 2018 than there are Mexicans in 2022. 93.106.177.245 ( talk) 06:15, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
The section discussing seseo gives only a very brief description of it which requires a fairly comprehensive understanding of IPA. Seseo itself is not actually described, but rather a consequence of seseo. JosephBw ( talk) 23:47, 19 June 2023 (UTC)