This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Wasn't Bryan Ferry the original metrosexual, and Peter Murphy the second?
Neither, I would say. The very concept of metrosexuality hinges upon the rejection of masculine vanity in the 1990s that was brought about by a variety of influences, among them the indie music scene, the advent of a dresssed-down workplace, and a kind of cultural homophobia than rejected anything that was "gay." Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:07, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Can someone add information about Democratic Presidential Candidate Howard Dean's self-identification with the term metrosexual? For many Americans, his self-identification was the first time they heard it. ~~freepatriot
Are we suppose to guess this Bravo show's name? As well, this 'sentence' is much too long. I will edit it, someone find the name of the Bravo show. -- ShaunMacPherson 11:40, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I don't understand how it is so hard to figure out. The name of the show is 'Queer Eye For The Straight Guy'.
In light of the obvious tension present in this discussion, I would like to posit a different way of thinking about metrosexuals. I argue that through their spectacular presence, metrosexuals empower and privilege the feminine gaze while, perhaps unwittingly, undercutting the monolithic and castrating nature of postmodern masculinity.
In their resistance to traditional gender norms, metrosexuals threaten to collapse the dominant heteronormative ideology, hence the homophobic verbal backlash. According to feminist, gender and queer theories, dominant ideologies are maintained through the persistent ‘Othering’ of groups that resist or lack the normative codes they prescribe. According to this formula, women and gay men shop freely to make up for what they lack; establishing a highly visible identity in a world of straight white male invisibility. Straight white males who seek more visible identities via consumption also inhabit the subordinate space of the Others. The performance of the metrosexual is a highly visible disavowal of the dominant heteronormative ideology. Thus, those who criticize the metrosexual are not afraid of a distinct group of men, but of a slow and steady shift in postmodern masculinity that threatens to collapse the heteronormative ideology via disavowal.
I fully agree with Beback -- Wikipedia is not the place for a semiotics paper. However, it might be interesting to note that part of the tension inherent in the word "metrosexual" springs from how a variety of sources feel proprietary over it. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:08, 22 December 2010 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Blondjamesblond ( talk • contribs) 15:44, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Marilyn Manson makes a subtle reference to the term in his song "New model #15":
Interesting because:
(Together with "vague", it also reminds you of Vogue magazine and in turn Cosmopolitan Magazine -- though this might be unintended.)
I assume that all the quotes in the Metrosexual article are from Mark Simpson's original article (although it is really not that clear to me that they are all from the article). If they are, then there needs to be a reference section telling which magazine or book they are from. BlankVerse ∅ 08:22, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I was just about to suggest the same thing... Xinit 7 July 2005 23:05 (UTC)
please stop removing my addition to common usage. I have most often (9 out of 10 times) heard metrosexual to refur to a person "in the closet", and thus it should be included. It doesn't matter ONLY what the orgin was, but also common usage presently. Look at "gay". used to mean happy, now common usage is different. IreverentReverend 8 July 2005 16:07 (UTC)
granted urban dictionary is not exactly a high quality source, but it does show common usage as people see it... it has a mxture of both straight only usage, in the closet usage, and humourous usage, as well as maddox of missionx (thebestpageintheuniverse.com) uses the inthe closet definition on his humourus pointed look at society.
You almost always here PEOPLE use metro as someone in the closet, and the tv/radio to refur to the traditional definition. IreverentReverend 8 July 2005 17:25 (UTC)
I agree with IR, seen it at my highschool. It was used sarcastically about the biggest 3 gay guys until their senior year when they came out together... one was upset that no one was suprised, they thought they would shock the school!
This post seems to say a lot more about the poster and his adolescent anxieties - most of which appear to centre on a fear of/obsession with homosexuality - than about the word. Is this Wikidpedia or a High School bulletin board?
OMG LOLZERZ!!!@! Are real bulletin boards so much more mature than high schoolers talking about themselves on the internet? From your post I can tell you read the bible too much. Or Wikipedia articles. -~~~~
This isn't supposed to be a bulletin board or arena to air opinions. This discussion page is aimed at improving and, if necessary, expanding this entry. A lot of the debate could be cut short if people remembered the wikipolicies:
# 1.3 Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought
# 1.4 Wikipedia is not a soapbox
# 1.6 Wikipedia is not a blog, webspace provider, or social networking site
it doesn't matter what you *think* or how you have heard this term used in "common usage". Without making relevant points and then supporting these with citations, your contributions detract from the articles quality, and thus have no need to be included. --
bntrpy
18:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
The recent changes to the reactionary usage section seems to miss the point (perhaps the writing isn't clear). The issue being taken up isn't whether a person using metro to describe a closeted gay man is right or wrong, but refers to societal norms and stereotypes. Even if the hypothetical metro is a closeted gay man, that kind of usage suggests that the idea that we can't read a person's sexuality by looking at stereotypical behavior is being rejected. - Seth Mahoney July 8, 2005 19:44 (UTC)
Arnold Schwarzenegger has often been called a metrosexual, and he apparently accepts the term. He has called himself a "shoe queen", and is known for his particular care in grooming, wardrobe, and jewelry. A Google search on [Schwarzenegger metrosexual] brings up almost 5,000 hits, including [2]. - Willmcw 23:26, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
The salon piece 'Meet the metrosexual' did introduce the word to global usage - the article was one of the most popular ever posted on Salon, then the web's most popular online magazine, and linked and pasted all over the web and led to many derivative and occassionally plagiaristic articles appearing in the world's media, including 'The rise of the metrosexual' in the Sydney Morning Herald (March 6, 2003) http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/05/1046826436007.html It was also clearly the source from which the American marketers took the concept. Right down to the mention of 'pink shirts' at the end of the article.
I took this section out because the length was unwarranted. The article did not introduce the word.
It introduced the word to the US - and popularised it globally. Salon.com was then the most popular online magazine in the world - and particularly in the US. It was because of this article that the one in the NYT appeared - though it does not acknowledge it.
The fuel was set; the spark was Simpson's 2002 Salon.com article lampooning soccer megastar David Beckham, "Meet the metrosexual". The firm Euro RCSG Worldwide adopted the term shortly thereafter for a marketing study, and the New York Times made it a Sunday feature, "Metrosexuals Come Out"; the story trickled into local news outlets across North America.
Simpson's Salon.com definition is distinct from metrosexual 's common use today. His article was detached, wittily ironic, with more than a dash of anti-corporate disdain, and his definition exists outside the gay-straight style spectrum that defines the boundaries of fashion for many Americans –
It includes a Sex and the City definition for females, and touches on the queer angle only in passing –
lots of issues |
leave me a message
11:52, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I reverted back because any list of random facts begins the process of quality deterioration. The first is also mentioned in the article itself.
lots of issues | leave me a message 08:35, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Mark Simpson has already dealt rather smartly with this slightly pedantic issue in his self-interview 'MetroDaddy speaks!' salon.com Jan 2004
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2004/01/05/metrosexual_ii/index.html
"Did you know that "metrosexual" means "motherfucker" in Greek?
No, but thank you for pointing it out. It does make a certain kind of sense. Metrosexuality is the sensibility of the New Matriarchy. It's post-Oedipal. Dad is largely out of the picture, replaced by Nike and Playstation. The metrosexual family romance, the cradle of male narcissism, is just Junior and an adoring Mom. It's why, from a certain perspective, Italians have been metrosexuals for years."
'UBERSEXUAL' ENTRY SHOULD BE MERGED WITH 'METROSEXUAL' AS SHOULD 'RETROSEXUAL'
Not only is 'ubersexual' clearly derivative of 'metrosexual', it is directly derivative (though not acknowledged as such) of the work of the author of the metrosexual concept Mark Simpson.
Two years before it was used in THE FUTURE OF MEN by Marian Salzman, Simpson deployed the term 'uber-metrosexual' in his article 'Becks the virus' (Salon.com June 28 2003), the same article in which he coined the term 'retrosexual'.
"Beckham is the über-metrosexual, not just because he rams metrosexuality down the throats of those men churlish enough to remain retrosexual and refuse to pluck their eyebrows, but also because he is a sportsman, a man of substance -- a "real" man -- who wishes to disappear into surfaceness in order to become ubiquitous -- to become media."
Clinching the matter, Marian Salzman is the very same marketer who appropriated 'metrosexual' from Simpson's work in 2003.
Even the title of the chapter in her book in which the 'ubersexual' appears 'Beyond Metrosexualmania', is derivative of Simpson's work. He coined the term 'metrosexmania' to describe 'the media's insatiable craving for metrosexuals' in 2003.
I agree that ubersexual should be included with metrosexual - also it has too much space for a term that is hardly used by anyone. 'Retrosexual' is much more commonly used (also Simpson's term). NotoriousQRG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.179.159 ( talk) 16:20, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
I have made sections under 'other terms' for 'retrosexual' and 'ubersexual' and then to explain more about ubersexual, used the heading Marian Salzman.
I think this is clearer and will add to it later. NotoriousQRG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.179.159 ( talk) 11:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I feel this quote doesn't define the lifestyle, but rather the traditionalist objections. Agree?
Lotsofissues 00:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that the article "ubersexual" ought to be left as is, since it is a different term. Comments? -- Kerowyn 00:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Merge them. Clearly 'ubersexual' doesn't mean anything that 'metrosexual' doesn't.
I just merged the material from Retrosexual and made it a redirect to this article. It's poor material, so I apologize for bringing it here, but I'm just acting according to the vox populi. Brian G. Crawford 23:20, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I believe that this should be removed. Even if anyone ever earnestly used 1337 dialogue, as of 2006 it's only used ironically and even then quite often frowned upon as cliched and trite. I think that if someone wants to stay they need to verify its usage in this context. JD79 05:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Who's Stuart Turner? Is that vandalism? Mateo LeFou 17:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Isn't this term (metrosexual) bogus? 'has a strong aesthetic sense and spends a great amount of time and money on his appearance and lifestyle': aren't men (and women) supposed to be like that anyway? Is aesthetic sense bad in any way? Is spending money on appearance abnormal? To me the whole term sounds quite strange.
What would the opinion be here if this section was added, referring to the large majority of secretly homosexual (closet gay) men who now instead of claiming to be heterosexual, claim to be "metrosexual". It's becoming an increasingly common occurrence, especially in those from social backgrounds which are very disapproving of homosexuality (e.g. christian fundamentalists in the deep south of america, muslims, hindus). It seems that the vast majority of men who would call themselves metrosexual are actually homosexual and the ones who are actually "metrosexual" would refer to themselves as heterosexual but be referred to by others as metrosexual. (That's how i tell the difference anyway... other than when "metrosexuals" i know have gay sex on a flight to beijing)
In my opinion, it's a sad day when perfectly heterosexual men can be segregated as immitating homosexuals just because they aren't disgusting (I'm a traditionally disgusting heterosexual man).-- KX36 20:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Why did we add Template:Sexual orientation to this article? "metrosexual" isn't a sexual orientation, it's a matter of personal style. - Will Beback · † · 21:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
This epitomizes what WP:SYN prohibits. Bringing Freud in in order to expand upon the assertion of 'narcissism' is original research (and not very well-crafted at that, IMHO). Much of this article reads like an undergraduate gender-studies paper, full of ideological biases, unexamined assumptions, and sloppy reasoning. I vote that this section be dropped until someone has something meaningful and within wikipolicy to enhance the larger article. -- bntrpy 19:39, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
I could not agree more. I cringed reading this entry. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:10, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
This article has several portions, eg, "Metrosexuality is the trait of a sophisticated man..." that seem to remove criticism of Metrosexuality, especially in the beginning of the article. If someone with more knowledge on this topic could review and/or edit this article to ensure it adheres to WP:NPOV, it would be much appreciated. Additionally, I would appreciate if other editors would discuss ways to improve the neutrality of this article here on the talk page. Ninja! 00:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Ubersexual is a/derives from German and thus should remain so and explicit it own def. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.170.243.188 ( talk • contribs)
I deleted an unsourced section covering purported "metrosexual companies". Men have purchased fsahionable attire for countless centuries, and these companies have no clear connection to the term. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Though Beback's edits are almost always right on the money, I am not sure about this one, since a key part of metrosexuality involved becoming aware of fashion in both style and brand. Brands like Hugo Boss, Prada and Gucci -- and even specific items like the sport-striped dress shirts from Paul Smith and Etro -- were key identifiers of metrosexuality in the mid-2000s. That said, I don't know what companies were mentioned before.
Blondjamesblond (
talk) 16:10, 22 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Blondjamesblond (
talk •
contribs)
15:58, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Didn't the word "metrosexual" start off as a joke? i.e. "metro" is derived from the Greek for "mother" (e.g. "metropolis" = "mother-city", the capital, or a city from which a colony was founded); hence "metrosexual" = "motherf****r". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.192.96 ( talk) 17:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Funny, but nope. JosiahHenderson ( talk) 20:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Is there really nothing better?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.75.187 ( talk) 22:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
…3:30 P.M. E.S.T. Metrosexual could this just be simply a taskable people formed from a related experience,such as mother and father,and metro just being the erea of circumstance,and or circumstance's like polotin or police wich means something of an acceptance. Metro a round about sittuation. Sexual, a discription of a usual formation,perhaps meaning mother and father.
The terming yankee doodle dandy is very interseting, such as the 'N'inbetween Yankee and Dandy if removed you will have a representational boundery. Perhaps De La n'cey could be another invovlement of how an 'n' is used and now would need Historical literature to create a Foundation for the n or even N formed in the begining of a word or wordi'n'g 3:39.P.M. E.S.T David George DeLancey David George DeLancey ( talk) 20:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
This is basically the same thing as a "pretty boy," right? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pretty+boy Chin Chill-A Eat Mor Rodents ( talk) 18:41, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Agree with Beback. Moreover, "pretty boy" implies someone who is both attractive and vain. A metrosexual doesn't have to be a model, just someone who cares about his appearance and takes pains to make himself look as attractive and stylish as possible. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:11, 22 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blondjamesblond ( talk • contribs) 16:02, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm 60 years old and in my day, the 70's and 80's, what you call is metrosexuality, was just good grooming. Showered, shaven, neat hair, neat clothes. It's not narcissism; what woman or man wants to be with a man/woman who has smelly genitals, dirty nails, and hair in ten directions. I learned from my grandfather and my Mom & Dad; who is teaching now? I pity todays men and women who don't care about these things. They only care about the end result, not the means to get there. Dcrasno ( talk) 03:47, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
This article definition of a metrosexual as a "guy who acts gay but isn't" only confuses the issue by imprecisely conflated two distinct and difference trends. The fact that this article is part of the WikiProject GLBT only futher entrenches this confusion. This tacitly assumes a well defined way that gay men act. Gay men act differently, some conforming to metrosexual norms and others not. Furthermore, even the stereotypes we associate with gay man vary significantly. Lastly, gay culture is in flux and even if it did coincide with metrosexuality at one point in time, it does not mean it continues to do so.
Case in point: Body Hair. Metrosexuals tend to remove it. Some gay guys have removed it, but right now hair is in fashion in the gay community. So the association isn't there at all.
I think we need to simply return to the article back to using the original definitions of metrosexual, which have the added bonus of having convenient citations. Rather than define one group by vague behavioral association with another group, it would be better to just state the defining properties explicitly first. Later on in the article there can be a discussion of gay vs. metrosexual. Greg Comlish ( talk) 18:46, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but is an article like this even needed? It contains information that can be gotten elsewhere, and is so uncritical it seems a joke article, not a serious one. Olliekamm ( talk) 12:13, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I removed the sent
which is unref'd and not followed up in
Metrosexual#Evolution of the word.
Even if true, it is unencyclopedic to simply throw it out there with discussion: its only direct tie to "homosexual" is -sexual, but it is far more closely tied to "heterosexual", which is far more often pronounced "het'roseksh'al, rhyming with "metroseksh'al" perfectly but for a single phoneme. Another etymology, along the lines of
so immediately comes to mind that it would be unremarkable for every editor to neglect requesting a reference for it. In fact, coinage per se -- a probably brief and unverifiable act by one person -- is trivia, insufficiently notable to be mentioned alone when the "viral" vigor of such a close rhyme, and any timeliness in the term's prominence, is the real story.
--
Jerzy•
t
19:12, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
The term metrosexual is derided, often by the same people who are actually embracing it. It's a ploy to sell "personal care" products to men. And it works. And if someone wants to call himself a retrosexual, there are personal care products for that too.-- RLent ( talk) 15:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
May I nominate Patrick Bateman? Naaman Brown ( talk) 12:41, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
The section on popular culture is not very good. I and Simpson are the only people with the knowledge to improve it, and this page overall. but I am not risking having my edits deleted by a bunch of geeks who don't know or care about metrosexuality! NotoriousQRG ( talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by NotoriousQRG ( talk • contribs) 15:25, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
until i saw this i always thought a metrosexual person was someone who had sex with cars 203.122.243.98 ( talk) 11:59, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
A recent set of edits deleted sourced material and added unsourced material. That's the opposite direction from the one we should be taking. While some of the sourced material may have been tangential or unnecessary, I don't see a good case being made for that. Unless there's an explanation I'll revert the edits. Will Beback talk 20:09, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, that was me. I can source the material. Kinda new to this -- not sure exactly what to type and where to show source. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:12, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
BTW, I don't know how to start a new talk page topic for discussion -- namely, I wonder whether the entry on "female metrosexuality" belongs there at all. The reasoning is faulty, there's no proof or reference that the concept is valid, or needed, or anything. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:49, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
The "Metrosexual" article mentions
The fact is that in Australia the said newspaper is not regarded as national. In editorial content and in distribution it's decidedly a state-based newspaper, despite its good coverage of national and international matters. Outside New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory it's available in some shops in each state or territory, but usually no earlier than the day after publication.
Australia's two dailies that are truly national in that they're distributed nationwide for purchase over the counter and mostly on the day of publication are The Australian (News Limited, = Murdoch) and The Australian Financial Review (Fairfax).
The article is correct, though, where it calls Melbourne's daily The Age a "sister" of The Sydney Morning Herald. They're equals in that each is Fairfax, each is a broadsheet and each is classed as a metropolitan (ie capital-city) daily. Leigh Oats ( talk) 10:26, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
What does looking prim and proper have to do with sex? 108.23.147.17 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:12, 9 December 2011 (UTC).
Not sure why "flexisexual" got added to this article since the term has little to do with metrosexuality. The proper home for that information is on the heteroflexible article which means basically the same thing. Greg Comlish ( talk) 17:24, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
I have removed the 'flexisexual' bit I agree it is not relevant to the meaning of 'metrosexual'. NotoriousQRG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.179.159 ( talk) 09:32, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone clarify who the Sam Romano mentioned in the article is? I can't seem to find a canonical Sam Romano when I search on either Wikipedia or Google, and the only references seem to be to other news articles which have clearly lifted from this Wikipedia article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.233.25 ( talk) 09:44, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Wasn't Bryan Ferry the original metrosexual, and Peter Murphy the second?
Neither, I would say. The very concept of metrosexuality hinges upon the rejection of masculine vanity in the 1990s that was brought about by a variety of influences, among them the indie music scene, the advent of a dresssed-down workplace, and a kind of cultural homophobia than rejected anything that was "gay." Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:07, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Can someone add information about Democratic Presidential Candidate Howard Dean's self-identification with the term metrosexual? For many Americans, his self-identification was the first time they heard it. ~~freepatriot
Are we suppose to guess this Bravo show's name? As well, this 'sentence' is much too long. I will edit it, someone find the name of the Bravo show. -- ShaunMacPherson 11:40, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I don't understand how it is so hard to figure out. The name of the show is 'Queer Eye For The Straight Guy'.
In light of the obvious tension present in this discussion, I would like to posit a different way of thinking about metrosexuals. I argue that through their spectacular presence, metrosexuals empower and privilege the feminine gaze while, perhaps unwittingly, undercutting the monolithic and castrating nature of postmodern masculinity.
In their resistance to traditional gender norms, metrosexuals threaten to collapse the dominant heteronormative ideology, hence the homophobic verbal backlash. According to feminist, gender and queer theories, dominant ideologies are maintained through the persistent ‘Othering’ of groups that resist or lack the normative codes they prescribe. According to this formula, women and gay men shop freely to make up for what they lack; establishing a highly visible identity in a world of straight white male invisibility. Straight white males who seek more visible identities via consumption also inhabit the subordinate space of the Others. The performance of the metrosexual is a highly visible disavowal of the dominant heteronormative ideology. Thus, those who criticize the metrosexual are not afraid of a distinct group of men, but of a slow and steady shift in postmodern masculinity that threatens to collapse the heteronormative ideology via disavowal.
I fully agree with Beback -- Wikipedia is not the place for a semiotics paper. However, it might be interesting to note that part of the tension inherent in the word "metrosexual" springs from how a variety of sources feel proprietary over it. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:08, 22 December 2010 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Blondjamesblond ( talk • contribs) 15:44, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Marilyn Manson makes a subtle reference to the term in his song "New model #15":
Interesting because:
(Together with "vague", it also reminds you of Vogue magazine and in turn Cosmopolitan Magazine -- though this might be unintended.)
I assume that all the quotes in the Metrosexual article are from Mark Simpson's original article (although it is really not that clear to me that they are all from the article). If they are, then there needs to be a reference section telling which magazine or book they are from. BlankVerse ∅ 08:22, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I was just about to suggest the same thing... Xinit 7 July 2005 23:05 (UTC)
please stop removing my addition to common usage. I have most often (9 out of 10 times) heard metrosexual to refur to a person "in the closet", and thus it should be included. It doesn't matter ONLY what the orgin was, but also common usage presently. Look at "gay". used to mean happy, now common usage is different. IreverentReverend 8 July 2005 16:07 (UTC)
granted urban dictionary is not exactly a high quality source, but it does show common usage as people see it... it has a mxture of both straight only usage, in the closet usage, and humourous usage, as well as maddox of missionx (thebestpageintheuniverse.com) uses the inthe closet definition on his humourus pointed look at society.
You almost always here PEOPLE use metro as someone in the closet, and the tv/radio to refur to the traditional definition. IreverentReverend 8 July 2005 17:25 (UTC)
I agree with IR, seen it at my highschool. It was used sarcastically about the biggest 3 gay guys until their senior year when they came out together... one was upset that no one was suprised, they thought they would shock the school!
This post seems to say a lot more about the poster and his adolescent anxieties - most of which appear to centre on a fear of/obsession with homosexuality - than about the word. Is this Wikidpedia or a High School bulletin board?
OMG LOLZERZ!!!@! Are real bulletin boards so much more mature than high schoolers talking about themselves on the internet? From your post I can tell you read the bible too much. Or Wikipedia articles. -~~~~
This isn't supposed to be a bulletin board or arena to air opinions. This discussion page is aimed at improving and, if necessary, expanding this entry. A lot of the debate could be cut short if people remembered the wikipolicies:
# 1.3 Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought
# 1.4 Wikipedia is not a soapbox
# 1.6 Wikipedia is not a blog, webspace provider, or social networking site
it doesn't matter what you *think* or how you have heard this term used in "common usage". Without making relevant points and then supporting these with citations, your contributions detract from the articles quality, and thus have no need to be included. --
bntrpy
18:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
The recent changes to the reactionary usage section seems to miss the point (perhaps the writing isn't clear). The issue being taken up isn't whether a person using metro to describe a closeted gay man is right or wrong, but refers to societal norms and stereotypes. Even if the hypothetical metro is a closeted gay man, that kind of usage suggests that the idea that we can't read a person's sexuality by looking at stereotypical behavior is being rejected. - Seth Mahoney July 8, 2005 19:44 (UTC)
Arnold Schwarzenegger has often been called a metrosexual, and he apparently accepts the term. He has called himself a "shoe queen", and is known for his particular care in grooming, wardrobe, and jewelry. A Google search on [Schwarzenegger metrosexual] brings up almost 5,000 hits, including [2]. - Willmcw 23:26, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
The salon piece 'Meet the metrosexual' did introduce the word to global usage - the article was one of the most popular ever posted on Salon, then the web's most popular online magazine, and linked and pasted all over the web and led to many derivative and occassionally plagiaristic articles appearing in the world's media, including 'The rise of the metrosexual' in the Sydney Morning Herald (March 6, 2003) http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/05/1046826436007.html It was also clearly the source from which the American marketers took the concept. Right down to the mention of 'pink shirts' at the end of the article.
I took this section out because the length was unwarranted. The article did not introduce the word.
It introduced the word to the US - and popularised it globally. Salon.com was then the most popular online magazine in the world - and particularly in the US. It was because of this article that the one in the NYT appeared - though it does not acknowledge it.
The fuel was set; the spark was Simpson's 2002 Salon.com article lampooning soccer megastar David Beckham, "Meet the metrosexual". The firm Euro RCSG Worldwide adopted the term shortly thereafter for a marketing study, and the New York Times made it a Sunday feature, "Metrosexuals Come Out"; the story trickled into local news outlets across North America.
Simpson's Salon.com definition is distinct from metrosexual 's common use today. His article was detached, wittily ironic, with more than a dash of anti-corporate disdain, and his definition exists outside the gay-straight style spectrum that defines the boundaries of fashion for many Americans –
It includes a Sex and the City definition for females, and touches on the queer angle only in passing –
lots of issues |
leave me a message
11:52, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I reverted back because any list of random facts begins the process of quality deterioration. The first is also mentioned in the article itself.
lots of issues | leave me a message 08:35, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Mark Simpson has already dealt rather smartly with this slightly pedantic issue in his self-interview 'MetroDaddy speaks!' salon.com Jan 2004
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2004/01/05/metrosexual_ii/index.html
"Did you know that "metrosexual" means "motherfucker" in Greek?
No, but thank you for pointing it out. It does make a certain kind of sense. Metrosexuality is the sensibility of the New Matriarchy. It's post-Oedipal. Dad is largely out of the picture, replaced by Nike and Playstation. The metrosexual family romance, the cradle of male narcissism, is just Junior and an adoring Mom. It's why, from a certain perspective, Italians have been metrosexuals for years."
'UBERSEXUAL' ENTRY SHOULD BE MERGED WITH 'METROSEXUAL' AS SHOULD 'RETROSEXUAL'
Not only is 'ubersexual' clearly derivative of 'metrosexual', it is directly derivative (though not acknowledged as such) of the work of the author of the metrosexual concept Mark Simpson.
Two years before it was used in THE FUTURE OF MEN by Marian Salzman, Simpson deployed the term 'uber-metrosexual' in his article 'Becks the virus' (Salon.com June 28 2003), the same article in which he coined the term 'retrosexual'.
"Beckham is the über-metrosexual, not just because he rams metrosexuality down the throats of those men churlish enough to remain retrosexual and refuse to pluck their eyebrows, but also because he is a sportsman, a man of substance -- a "real" man -- who wishes to disappear into surfaceness in order to become ubiquitous -- to become media."
Clinching the matter, Marian Salzman is the very same marketer who appropriated 'metrosexual' from Simpson's work in 2003.
Even the title of the chapter in her book in which the 'ubersexual' appears 'Beyond Metrosexualmania', is derivative of Simpson's work. He coined the term 'metrosexmania' to describe 'the media's insatiable craving for metrosexuals' in 2003.
I agree that ubersexual should be included with metrosexual - also it has too much space for a term that is hardly used by anyone. 'Retrosexual' is much more commonly used (also Simpson's term). NotoriousQRG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.179.159 ( talk) 16:20, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
I have made sections under 'other terms' for 'retrosexual' and 'ubersexual' and then to explain more about ubersexual, used the heading Marian Salzman.
I think this is clearer and will add to it later. NotoriousQRG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.179.159 ( talk) 11:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I feel this quote doesn't define the lifestyle, but rather the traditionalist objections. Agree?
Lotsofissues 00:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that the article "ubersexual" ought to be left as is, since it is a different term. Comments? -- Kerowyn 00:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Merge them. Clearly 'ubersexual' doesn't mean anything that 'metrosexual' doesn't.
I just merged the material from Retrosexual and made it a redirect to this article. It's poor material, so I apologize for bringing it here, but I'm just acting according to the vox populi. Brian G. Crawford 23:20, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I believe that this should be removed. Even if anyone ever earnestly used 1337 dialogue, as of 2006 it's only used ironically and even then quite often frowned upon as cliched and trite. I think that if someone wants to stay they need to verify its usage in this context. JD79 05:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Who's Stuart Turner? Is that vandalism? Mateo LeFou 17:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Isn't this term (metrosexual) bogus? 'has a strong aesthetic sense and spends a great amount of time and money on his appearance and lifestyle': aren't men (and women) supposed to be like that anyway? Is aesthetic sense bad in any way? Is spending money on appearance abnormal? To me the whole term sounds quite strange.
What would the opinion be here if this section was added, referring to the large majority of secretly homosexual (closet gay) men who now instead of claiming to be heterosexual, claim to be "metrosexual". It's becoming an increasingly common occurrence, especially in those from social backgrounds which are very disapproving of homosexuality (e.g. christian fundamentalists in the deep south of america, muslims, hindus). It seems that the vast majority of men who would call themselves metrosexual are actually homosexual and the ones who are actually "metrosexual" would refer to themselves as heterosexual but be referred to by others as metrosexual. (That's how i tell the difference anyway... other than when "metrosexuals" i know have gay sex on a flight to beijing)
In my opinion, it's a sad day when perfectly heterosexual men can be segregated as immitating homosexuals just because they aren't disgusting (I'm a traditionally disgusting heterosexual man).-- KX36 20:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Why did we add Template:Sexual orientation to this article? "metrosexual" isn't a sexual orientation, it's a matter of personal style. - Will Beback · † · 21:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
This epitomizes what WP:SYN prohibits. Bringing Freud in in order to expand upon the assertion of 'narcissism' is original research (and not very well-crafted at that, IMHO). Much of this article reads like an undergraduate gender-studies paper, full of ideological biases, unexamined assumptions, and sloppy reasoning. I vote that this section be dropped until someone has something meaningful and within wikipolicy to enhance the larger article. -- bntrpy 19:39, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
I could not agree more. I cringed reading this entry. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:10, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
This article has several portions, eg, "Metrosexuality is the trait of a sophisticated man..." that seem to remove criticism of Metrosexuality, especially in the beginning of the article. If someone with more knowledge on this topic could review and/or edit this article to ensure it adheres to WP:NPOV, it would be much appreciated. Additionally, I would appreciate if other editors would discuss ways to improve the neutrality of this article here on the talk page. Ninja! 00:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Ubersexual is a/derives from German and thus should remain so and explicit it own def. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.170.243.188 ( talk • contribs)
I deleted an unsourced section covering purported "metrosexual companies". Men have purchased fsahionable attire for countless centuries, and these companies have no clear connection to the term. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Though Beback's edits are almost always right on the money, I am not sure about this one, since a key part of metrosexuality involved becoming aware of fashion in both style and brand. Brands like Hugo Boss, Prada and Gucci -- and even specific items like the sport-striped dress shirts from Paul Smith and Etro -- were key identifiers of metrosexuality in the mid-2000s. That said, I don't know what companies were mentioned before.
Blondjamesblond (
talk) 16:10, 22 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Blondjamesblond (
talk •
contribs)
15:58, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Didn't the word "metrosexual" start off as a joke? i.e. "metro" is derived from the Greek for "mother" (e.g. "metropolis" = "mother-city", the capital, or a city from which a colony was founded); hence "metrosexual" = "motherf****r". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.192.96 ( talk) 17:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Funny, but nope. JosiahHenderson ( talk) 20:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Is there really nothing better?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.75.187 ( talk) 22:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
…3:30 P.M. E.S.T. Metrosexual could this just be simply a taskable people formed from a related experience,such as mother and father,and metro just being the erea of circumstance,and or circumstance's like polotin or police wich means something of an acceptance. Metro a round about sittuation. Sexual, a discription of a usual formation,perhaps meaning mother and father.
The terming yankee doodle dandy is very interseting, such as the 'N'inbetween Yankee and Dandy if removed you will have a representational boundery. Perhaps De La n'cey could be another invovlement of how an 'n' is used and now would need Historical literature to create a Foundation for the n or even N formed in the begining of a word or wordi'n'g 3:39.P.M. E.S.T David George DeLancey David George DeLancey ( talk) 20:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
This is basically the same thing as a "pretty boy," right? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pretty+boy Chin Chill-A Eat Mor Rodents ( talk) 18:41, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Agree with Beback. Moreover, "pretty boy" implies someone who is both attractive and vain. A metrosexual doesn't have to be a model, just someone who cares about his appearance and takes pains to make himself look as attractive and stylish as possible. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:11, 22 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blondjamesblond ( talk • contribs) 16:02, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm 60 years old and in my day, the 70's and 80's, what you call is metrosexuality, was just good grooming. Showered, shaven, neat hair, neat clothes. It's not narcissism; what woman or man wants to be with a man/woman who has smelly genitals, dirty nails, and hair in ten directions. I learned from my grandfather and my Mom & Dad; who is teaching now? I pity todays men and women who don't care about these things. They only care about the end result, not the means to get there. Dcrasno ( talk) 03:47, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
This article definition of a metrosexual as a "guy who acts gay but isn't" only confuses the issue by imprecisely conflated two distinct and difference trends. The fact that this article is part of the WikiProject GLBT only futher entrenches this confusion. This tacitly assumes a well defined way that gay men act. Gay men act differently, some conforming to metrosexual norms and others not. Furthermore, even the stereotypes we associate with gay man vary significantly. Lastly, gay culture is in flux and even if it did coincide with metrosexuality at one point in time, it does not mean it continues to do so.
Case in point: Body Hair. Metrosexuals tend to remove it. Some gay guys have removed it, but right now hair is in fashion in the gay community. So the association isn't there at all.
I think we need to simply return to the article back to using the original definitions of metrosexual, which have the added bonus of having convenient citations. Rather than define one group by vague behavioral association with another group, it would be better to just state the defining properties explicitly first. Later on in the article there can be a discussion of gay vs. metrosexual. Greg Comlish ( talk) 18:46, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but is an article like this even needed? It contains information that can be gotten elsewhere, and is so uncritical it seems a joke article, not a serious one. Olliekamm ( talk) 12:13, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I removed the sent
which is unref'd and not followed up in
Metrosexual#Evolution of the word.
Even if true, it is unencyclopedic to simply throw it out there with discussion: its only direct tie to "homosexual" is -sexual, but it is far more closely tied to "heterosexual", which is far more often pronounced "het'roseksh'al, rhyming with "metroseksh'al" perfectly but for a single phoneme. Another etymology, along the lines of
so immediately comes to mind that it would be unremarkable for every editor to neglect requesting a reference for it. In fact, coinage per se -- a probably brief and unverifiable act by one person -- is trivia, insufficiently notable to be mentioned alone when the "viral" vigor of such a close rhyme, and any timeliness in the term's prominence, is the real story.
--
Jerzy•
t
19:12, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
The term metrosexual is derided, often by the same people who are actually embracing it. It's a ploy to sell "personal care" products to men. And it works. And if someone wants to call himself a retrosexual, there are personal care products for that too.-- RLent ( talk) 15:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
May I nominate Patrick Bateman? Naaman Brown ( talk) 12:41, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
The section on popular culture is not very good. I and Simpson are the only people with the knowledge to improve it, and this page overall. but I am not risking having my edits deleted by a bunch of geeks who don't know or care about metrosexuality! NotoriousQRG ( talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by NotoriousQRG ( talk • contribs) 15:25, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
until i saw this i always thought a metrosexual person was someone who had sex with cars 203.122.243.98 ( talk) 11:59, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
A recent set of edits deleted sourced material and added unsourced material. That's the opposite direction from the one we should be taking. While some of the sourced material may have been tangential or unnecessary, I don't see a good case being made for that. Unless there's an explanation I'll revert the edits. Will Beback talk 20:09, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, that was me. I can source the material. Kinda new to this -- not sure exactly what to type and where to show source. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:12, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
BTW, I don't know how to start a new talk page topic for discussion -- namely, I wonder whether the entry on "female metrosexuality" belongs there at all. The reasoning is faulty, there's no proof or reference that the concept is valid, or needed, or anything. Blondjamesblond ( talk) 16:49, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
The "Metrosexual" article mentions
The fact is that in Australia the said newspaper is not regarded as national. In editorial content and in distribution it's decidedly a state-based newspaper, despite its good coverage of national and international matters. Outside New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory it's available in some shops in each state or territory, but usually no earlier than the day after publication.
Australia's two dailies that are truly national in that they're distributed nationwide for purchase over the counter and mostly on the day of publication are The Australian (News Limited, = Murdoch) and The Australian Financial Review (Fairfax).
The article is correct, though, where it calls Melbourne's daily The Age a "sister" of The Sydney Morning Herald. They're equals in that each is Fairfax, each is a broadsheet and each is classed as a metropolitan (ie capital-city) daily. Leigh Oats ( talk) 10:26, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
What does looking prim and proper have to do with sex? 108.23.147.17 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:12, 9 December 2011 (UTC).
Not sure why "flexisexual" got added to this article since the term has little to do with metrosexuality. The proper home for that information is on the heteroflexible article which means basically the same thing. Greg Comlish ( talk) 17:24, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
I have removed the 'flexisexual' bit I agree it is not relevant to the meaning of 'metrosexual'. NotoriousQRG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.179.159 ( talk) 09:32, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone clarify who the Sam Romano mentioned in the article is? I can't seem to find a canonical Sam Romano when I search on either Wikipedia or Google, and the only references seem to be to other news articles which have clearly lifted from this Wikipedia article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.233.25 ( talk) 09:44, 14 June 2012 (UTC)