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How can one effectively source the claim that methoxetamine is a designer drug? This wikipedia page (with the - dubious anyway, apparently - definition at Designer drugs) is claiming that methoxetamine was "created (or marketed, if they had already existed) to get around existing drug laws"? One could (if to do so didn't seem both irresponsible and possibly unencyclopaedic) link to a website selling the chemical, but then the website selling the chemical probably wouldn't make it clear for what purpose the chemical was created (or marketed). If one cannot source it, perhaps the claim should be removed, and the page should just say that methoxetamine is a "chemcial of the arylcyclohexylamine class". But then, I think we all know that it probably is a designer drug, but I'm not sure that's good enough to warrant inclusion of that claim: our deduction that it is being marketed to get around existing drug laws smells somewhat of original research to me. So I'll add 'citation needed', and seek others' views on this... GoVaLe2 ( talk) 11:21, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Don't be pedantic. There's no mention of this chemical in scientific literature. It appeared out of nowhere on vendor web sites which openly refer to it as a replacement for ketamine. It's clearly a designer drug... what do you want, vials of it to come with designer labels like jeans? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.225.88.31 ( talk) 03:02, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Ironically enough, it does come with designer labels on the packaging to signify authenticity, they are small rectangular holographic stickers that say METHOXETAMINE TM, and are only present on "official" batches.-- Valerophenone ( talk) 23:18, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
The Lednicer paper says nothing about MXE, or any related arylcyclohexylamines behaving as opioid pro-drugs, where did that come from? It is my suspicion that vendors repeatedly edit this page to insert false information about MXE's rumored opioidergic effects in order to boost sales. Editors should be aware of this.
I would suggest that categorisation as such is a matter of subjective opinion.
Since no one understands the mechanism by which ketamine causes cystitis it is reckless to suggest this ketamine-derivative does not cause bladder damage. This article is perpetuating a potentially dangerous myth since both ketamine and methoxetamine are clearly heavily abused drugs all around the world. There is not enough research on methoxetamine to suggest it does not damage the bladder. The only article on Pubmed is not freely available. ( Cavebloke ( talk) 14:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC))
Nobody ever said "does not cause." It says "lessons the risk" which is almost certainly true as the dose is lower. The fact that no instances of bladder toxicity have been reported does not confirm this fact and only time will tell, but I think saying there is lessoned risk is a reasonable assumption, in any case that is what the creator "M." thinks.
Since the creator of Methoxetamine has not performed any toxicity testing and has reported no safety data for the drug I do not believe he is qualified to comment on direct tissue-specific toxicity in the bladder (I believe anecdotally that his background is Chemistry and not Toxicology). Since this is a blackmarket drug with no control over dosage I think there are dangerous implications to suggesting this drug lessens the risk to the bladder. In my opinion, this appears to be a commercial move by the creator/manufaturers of Methoxetamine who want the many global ketamine users with bladder problems to switch to Methoxetamine. I have edited the wiki to remove the statement on cystitis because the citations used were not relevant to the bladder and contained no pertinent information on cystitis. I hope you will all agree this is the safest thing to do under these circumstances. Please suggest a reference which supports the bladder safety of this drug if you disagree. ( Cavebloke ( talk) 10:39, 8 December 2011 (UTC))
If MXE was designed to be used as a grey-market recreational drug, you couldn't really say using it to get high is ab-use, as this is the drugs intended purpose... 98.213.75.168 ( talk) 22:48, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
I've removed this source because it states that the patient had "a history of multiple drug abuse, psychosis, depression, and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder" and that "his medications were bupropion (150 mg/day), aripiprazole (15 mg/day), and chlorprothixene (80 mg/day)." which I don't think makes it acceptable to use as a reference, since we can't be sure the hospitalisation wasn't caused by an interaction between drugs. They'd also injected MDMA two days prior to it as well. WP:MEDRS tells us to be wary of primary sources like this one and we already have better sources for the more general fact that people have been hospitalised. I've also rephrased a bit to hopefully make it clearer that nobody really knows anything about its toxicity. SmartSE ( talk) 23:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Is this drug the same as Roflcoptr, which is a "party drug" (although what I've read is mostly causing hallucinations, panic attacks and involuntary defecation) currently pretty wide spread, mainly in the UK? Vivo ( talk) 10:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
I think it is presumptive to say that MXE is definitively covered by the Federal Analog Act due to being substantially similar to PCP. Legal search engines Westlaw and LexisNexis return no hits for methoxetamine, indicating that there has yet to be any US case involving the substance. It is well established in the relatively scant case law involving the Act that the prosecution has the burden of proving the 'substantially similar' prong of the test in U.S.C. § 802(32)(A)(i) and must also prove that the substance in question does not meet the exception in U.S.C. § 802(32)(C)(iv), which exempts substances "not intended for human consumption." While perhaps arguable from a scientific standpoint, is purely speculative to claim that MXE is a PCP analog for the purposes of the Act, so I don't think Testem's current version warrants inclusion as is. It should also be noted that MXE is not specifically scheduled federally or in any state, though such a point might be uncitable as it is trying to prove a negative. Postvegan ( talk) 01:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Postvegan ( talk • contribs) 01:54, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
The information regarding the (potential) antidepressant properties is, at the very least, poorly sourced (see WP:RSMED). I'm removing it. I haven't thoroughly scanned the literature regarding ketamine's antidepressant properties, but at least one review article refers to ketamine as a model for future drug development: "...using ketamine as a starting point to explore improved therapeutics for MDD (Major Depressive Disorder) can stimulate the continuous development and testing of new fast-acting antidepressants displaying increased selectivity. For instance, initial results with specific drugs that have fewer side effects than ketamine, such as NR2B antagonists, are promising." [1] I'm not sure that ketamine itself is being considered as a acceptable antidepressant. - Pmillerrhodes Talk Contrib (sorry, forgot to sign)
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For something like solubility data why is a forum inappropriate? It is no less reliable than any other website which someone can put together. It may not be peer-reviewed, but let's be honest, nobody is ever going to write a paper on mxe solubility and for the time being the data is suitable and useful. Testem ( talk) 21:21, 20 May 2012 (UTC) And let's be honest, half of wikipedia wouldn't be here if we removed all the information from unreliable sources. That is what the tag is for. Testem ( talk) 21:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
The article says MXE was disclosed online in May 2010. Is that web page still live or is it archived anywhere? That seems like an important bit of history, since it's what prevents MXE from coming to market as a mainstream patented pharmaceutical. Kevin143 ( talk) 11:54, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
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How can one effectively source the claim that methoxetamine is a designer drug? This wikipedia page (with the - dubious anyway, apparently - definition at Designer drugs) is claiming that methoxetamine was "created (or marketed, if they had already existed) to get around existing drug laws"? One could (if to do so didn't seem both irresponsible and possibly unencyclopaedic) link to a website selling the chemical, but then the website selling the chemical probably wouldn't make it clear for what purpose the chemical was created (or marketed). If one cannot source it, perhaps the claim should be removed, and the page should just say that methoxetamine is a "chemcial of the arylcyclohexylamine class". But then, I think we all know that it probably is a designer drug, but I'm not sure that's good enough to warrant inclusion of that claim: our deduction that it is being marketed to get around existing drug laws smells somewhat of original research to me. So I'll add 'citation needed', and seek others' views on this... GoVaLe2 ( talk) 11:21, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Don't be pedantic. There's no mention of this chemical in scientific literature. It appeared out of nowhere on vendor web sites which openly refer to it as a replacement for ketamine. It's clearly a designer drug... what do you want, vials of it to come with designer labels like jeans? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.225.88.31 ( talk) 03:02, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Ironically enough, it does come with designer labels on the packaging to signify authenticity, they are small rectangular holographic stickers that say METHOXETAMINE TM, and are only present on "official" batches.-- Valerophenone ( talk) 23:18, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
The Lednicer paper says nothing about MXE, or any related arylcyclohexylamines behaving as opioid pro-drugs, where did that come from? It is my suspicion that vendors repeatedly edit this page to insert false information about MXE's rumored opioidergic effects in order to boost sales. Editors should be aware of this.
I would suggest that categorisation as such is a matter of subjective opinion.
Since no one understands the mechanism by which ketamine causes cystitis it is reckless to suggest this ketamine-derivative does not cause bladder damage. This article is perpetuating a potentially dangerous myth since both ketamine and methoxetamine are clearly heavily abused drugs all around the world. There is not enough research on methoxetamine to suggest it does not damage the bladder. The only article on Pubmed is not freely available. ( Cavebloke ( talk) 14:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC))
Nobody ever said "does not cause." It says "lessons the risk" which is almost certainly true as the dose is lower. The fact that no instances of bladder toxicity have been reported does not confirm this fact and only time will tell, but I think saying there is lessoned risk is a reasonable assumption, in any case that is what the creator "M." thinks.
Since the creator of Methoxetamine has not performed any toxicity testing and has reported no safety data for the drug I do not believe he is qualified to comment on direct tissue-specific toxicity in the bladder (I believe anecdotally that his background is Chemistry and not Toxicology). Since this is a blackmarket drug with no control over dosage I think there are dangerous implications to suggesting this drug lessens the risk to the bladder. In my opinion, this appears to be a commercial move by the creator/manufaturers of Methoxetamine who want the many global ketamine users with bladder problems to switch to Methoxetamine. I have edited the wiki to remove the statement on cystitis because the citations used were not relevant to the bladder and contained no pertinent information on cystitis. I hope you will all agree this is the safest thing to do under these circumstances. Please suggest a reference which supports the bladder safety of this drug if you disagree. ( Cavebloke ( talk) 10:39, 8 December 2011 (UTC))
If MXE was designed to be used as a grey-market recreational drug, you couldn't really say using it to get high is ab-use, as this is the drugs intended purpose... 98.213.75.168 ( talk) 22:48, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
I've removed this source because it states that the patient had "a history of multiple drug abuse, psychosis, depression, and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder" and that "his medications were bupropion (150 mg/day), aripiprazole (15 mg/day), and chlorprothixene (80 mg/day)." which I don't think makes it acceptable to use as a reference, since we can't be sure the hospitalisation wasn't caused by an interaction between drugs. They'd also injected MDMA two days prior to it as well. WP:MEDRS tells us to be wary of primary sources like this one and we already have better sources for the more general fact that people have been hospitalised. I've also rephrased a bit to hopefully make it clearer that nobody really knows anything about its toxicity. SmartSE ( talk) 23:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Is this drug the same as Roflcoptr, which is a "party drug" (although what I've read is mostly causing hallucinations, panic attacks and involuntary defecation) currently pretty wide spread, mainly in the UK? Vivo ( talk) 10:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
I think it is presumptive to say that MXE is definitively covered by the Federal Analog Act due to being substantially similar to PCP. Legal search engines Westlaw and LexisNexis return no hits for methoxetamine, indicating that there has yet to be any US case involving the substance. It is well established in the relatively scant case law involving the Act that the prosecution has the burden of proving the 'substantially similar' prong of the test in U.S.C. § 802(32)(A)(i) and must also prove that the substance in question does not meet the exception in U.S.C. § 802(32)(C)(iv), which exempts substances "not intended for human consumption." While perhaps arguable from a scientific standpoint, is purely speculative to claim that MXE is a PCP analog for the purposes of the Act, so I don't think Testem's current version warrants inclusion as is. It should also be noted that MXE is not specifically scheduled federally or in any state, though such a point might be uncitable as it is trying to prove a negative. Postvegan ( talk) 01:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Postvegan ( talk • contribs) 01:54, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
The information regarding the (potential) antidepressant properties is, at the very least, poorly sourced (see WP:RSMED). I'm removing it. I haven't thoroughly scanned the literature regarding ketamine's antidepressant properties, but at least one review article refers to ketamine as a model for future drug development: "...using ketamine as a starting point to explore improved therapeutics for MDD (Major Depressive Disorder) can stimulate the continuous development and testing of new fast-acting antidepressants displaying increased selectivity. For instance, initial results with specific drugs that have fewer side effects than ketamine, such as NR2B antagonists, are promising." [1] I'm not sure that ketamine itself is being considered as a acceptable antidepressant. - Pmillerrhodes Talk Contrib (sorry, forgot to sign)
{{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help); Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)
For something like solubility data why is a forum inappropriate? It is no less reliable than any other website which someone can put together. It may not be peer-reviewed, but let's be honest, nobody is ever going to write a paper on mxe solubility and for the time being the data is suitable and useful. Testem ( talk) 21:21, 20 May 2012 (UTC) And let's be honest, half of wikipedia wouldn't be here if we removed all the information from unreliable sources. That is what the tag is for. Testem ( talk) 21:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
The article says MXE was disclosed online in May 2010. Is that web page still live or is it archived anywhere? That seems like an important bit of history, since it's what prevents MXE from coming to market as a mainstream patented pharmaceutical. Kevin143 ( talk) 11:54, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
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