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Is it? As far as I remember the idea that there is a portion of Ontology now designed meta-ontology is by no means universal. Its not even mentioned as a subject in many of the reference works. Unless and until something changes in that the use is confined to a limited number of authors within one tradition within Philosophy. You can't assume their position by using the article to advance it. ---- Snowded TALK 19:17, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
"To figure this out is the task of meta-ontology, which strictly speaking is not part of ontology construed narrowly, but the study of what ontology is. However, like most philosophical disciplines, ontology more broadly construed contains its own meta-study, and thus meta-ontology is part of ontology, more broadly construed. Nonetheless it is helpful to separate it out as a special part of ontology. Many of the philosophically most fundamental questions about ontology really are meta-ontological questions." [bold font added]
— Thomas Hofweber, Logic and Ontology: Different conceptions of ontology
I am very glad to have found this page as I am doing some very extensive research into philosophy of mind, and for philosophy of mind meta-ontology is a useful term and does not need to be deleted. If this entry adds to the categorization of ontology into more useful and usable subcategories then it is doing precisely what a public forum should do, encourage thinking and or re-thinking of stale categories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Astridjj ( talk • contribs) 22:22, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
At the risk of violating the Prime directive, it seems like meta-ontology is a term that is used enough by reliable sources to make it a valid and descriptive title for this article. If there is any reliable source that has questioned the appropriateness of using the term, it might be helpful to come forward with the link for this discussion. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 01:49, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Snowded: You continue to state over and over that the work described by those that do use the term 'meta-ontology' must be proven notable or dropped. You continue to suggest it is a term used only by some insignificant minority whose opinions are best left out of WP.
You have proposed on this Talk page that the whole subject be reduced to a mention in the article Ontology. That is your view. That is the basis for all your objections. It has gone nowhere. So put this view of insignificance aside, and focus instead on making this the most complete and authoritative article on meta-ontology available on the web, whatever its importance in the world of ontology. Making the article Meta-ontology all that it can be is not slap in the face for ontology or for WP or for you. It's just an article on a facet of ontology that has the attention of Price, Bird, Thomasson, Allspector-Kelly, Yablo, Eklund, Hirsch, Putnam and others. Brews ohare ( talk) 05:47, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Sections of this article have been merged to 'Ontology' in a subsection of that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.164.202.78 ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
The cover description for the anthology Metametaphysics goes like this:
It should be immediately clear to anyone editing Metaphysics, Ontology, Meta-metaphysics, or Meta-ontology that not only did the publisher not understand the distinction between metaphysics and ontology, but neither do the majority of professional philosophers. Partially, the reason is just language, different words used for the same ideas, but mainly this is due to the philosophy of the times which imagines itself to be the only metaphysics of all possible metaphysics. The consequence is that terms like metaphysics-ontology lose distinction and collapse into the same meaning, the search for existence.
This thinking is parochial. There are differences between possible and developed metaphysical systems based on the fundamental logic employed, and on the target application of the systems. Parmenides, Plato's Ideas, some Pythagoreanisms, Plato's Realism, Aristotle's Realism all use binary logic with non-contradiction, yet are quite distinct. Modern philosophy ignores these fundamental metaphysical differences, and seeks ontological solutions, which will tend not to fit within the logical constraints.
Wikipedians have a problem. We are bound by what is commonly accepted in peer-reviewed literature. When a crucial issue is rarely raised, then references, which do exist, are difficult to unearth. That difficulty should not mean that we must bury the crucial issue as well. BlueMist ( talk) 00:38, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
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My last edit was rather big so, I'll go over some of the things I added/changed and why I added/changed them. The previous lead-section lacked a proper definition which I added. I split the "Overview"-section into 3 sections: "Relation to ontology", "Realism" and "Anti-realism". Most of the added material concerns the "Realism"-section, which previously only mentioned the difference between the neo-Aristotelian approach and the Quinean approach in passing. The comment on the Carnap-Quine debate seemed to be out of context since the debate wasn't mentioned anywhere before. I moved it to the "Anti-realism"-section and provide some context to it concerning Carnap's anti-realism. Phlsph7 ( talk) 07:10, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Is it? As far as I remember the idea that there is a portion of Ontology now designed meta-ontology is by no means universal. Its not even mentioned as a subject in many of the reference works. Unless and until something changes in that the use is confined to a limited number of authors within one tradition within Philosophy. You can't assume their position by using the article to advance it. ---- Snowded TALK 19:17, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
"To figure this out is the task of meta-ontology, which strictly speaking is not part of ontology construed narrowly, but the study of what ontology is. However, like most philosophical disciplines, ontology more broadly construed contains its own meta-study, and thus meta-ontology is part of ontology, more broadly construed. Nonetheless it is helpful to separate it out as a special part of ontology. Many of the philosophically most fundamental questions about ontology really are meta-ontological questions." [bold font added]
— Thomas Hofweber, Logic and Ontology: Different conceptions of ontology
I am very glad to have found this page as I am doing some very extensive research into philosophy of mind, and for philosophy of mind meta-ontology is a useful term and does not need to be deleted. If this entry adds to the categorization of ontology into more useful and usable subcategories then it is doing precisely what a public forum should do, encourage thinking and or re-thinking of stale categories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Astridjj ( talk • contribs) 22:22, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
At the risk of violating the Prime directive, it seems like meta-ontology is a term that is used enough by reliable sources to make it a valid and descriptive title for this article. If there is any reliable source that has questioned the appropriateness of using the term, it might be helpful to come forward with the link for this discussion. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 01:49, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Snowded: You continue to state over and over that the work described by those that do use the term 'meta-ontology' must be proven notable or dropped. You continue to suggest it is a term used only by some insignificant minority whose opinions are best left out of WP.
You have proposed on this Talk page that the whole subject be reduced to a mention in the article Ontology. That is your view. That is the basis for all your objections. It has gone nowhere. So put this view of insignificance aside, and focus instead on making this the most complete and authoritative article on meta-ontology available on the web, whatever its importance in the world of ontology. Making the article Meta-ontology all that it can be is not slap in the face for ontology or for WP or for you. It's just an article on a facet of ontology that has the attention of Price, Bird, Thomasson, Allspector-Kelly, Yablo, Eklund, Hirsch, Putnam and others. Brews ohare ( talk) 05:47, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Sections of this article have been merged to 'Ontology' in a subsection of that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.164.202.78 ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
The cover description for the anthology Metametaphysics goes like this:
It should be immediately clear to anyone editing Metaphysics, Ontology, Meta-metaphysics, or Meta-ontology that not only did the publisher not understand the distinction between metaphysics and ontology, but neither do the majority of professional philosophers. Partially, the reason is just language, different words used for the same ideas, but mainly this is due to the philosophy of the times which imagines itself to be the only metaphysics of all possible metaphysics. The consequence is that terms like metaphysics-ontology lose distinction and collapse into the same meaning, the search for existence.
This thinking is parochial. There are differences between possible and developed metaphysical systems based on the fundamental logic employed, and on the target application of the systems. Parmenides, Plato's Ideas, some Pythagoreanisms, Plato's Realism, Aristotle's Realism all use binary logic with non-contradiction, yet are quite distinct. Modern philosophy ignores these fundamental metaphysical differences, and seeks ontological solutions, which will tend not to fit within the logical constraints.
Wikipedians have a problem. We are bound by what is commonly accepted in peer-reviewed literature. When a crucial issue is rarely raised, then references, which do exist, are difficult to unearth. That difficulty should not mean that we must bury the crucial issue as well. BlueMist ( talk) 00:38, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Meta-ontology. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:24, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
My last edit was rather big so, I'll go over some of the things I added/changed and why I added/changed them. The previous lead-section lacked a proper definition which I added. I split the "Overview"-section into 3 sections: "Relation to ontology", "Realism" and "Anti-realism". Most of the added material concerns the "Realism"-section, which previously only mentioned the difference between the neo-Aristotelian approach and the Quinean approach in passing. The comment on the Carnap-Quine debate seemed to be out of context since the debate wasn't mentioned anywhere before. I moved it to the "Anti-realism"-section and provide some context to it concerning Carnap's anti-realism. Phlsph7 ( talk) 07:10, 19 October 2020 (UTC)