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I have reverted a recent change on Andrewsarchus mongoliensis where Mesonychia was listed as a suborder of Artiodactyla. There are two competing hypothesis concerning the nearest relatives of Mesonychia. The traditional morphological view suggests that they are related to whales. Under this view either Mesonychia, Cetacea, and Artiodactyla are separate orders, the order Cetacea (or Cete as seen in McKenna and Bell, 1997) includes a suborder Mesonychia, or Mesonychia is a suborder of Cetartiodactyla, an order uniting whales and artiodactyls.
Alternatively, recent molecular and morphological work suggests that whales evolved from within the "artiodactyls" and Mesonychia represents a close relative but a distinct group. Under this view either Mesonychia and Cetartiodactyla are distinct orders, or Mesonychia is the most basal suborder within the Cetartiodactyla. To my knowledge no authorities argue that the mesonychids are more closely related to artiodactyls than to cetaceans.
I think recognizing Mesonychia as a distinct order is consistent with any of these hypotheses for relationships and would be the most appropriate position for us to take. Alternatively, it could be treated as a suborder of Cete (Cetacea) if we accept the old morphological hypothesis, but I don't think that's the mainstream approach since the publication of the molecular findings. -- Aranae 21:59, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Southern Elephant Seal is said to be the largest land predator, not Kodiak Bear, and the difference is very significant (2045 kg vs 700 kg for average males). On the other hand, seals are not hunting while on land. Proski 21:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Ultimately, I think we should make Mesonychidae its own article, rather than just a redirect to this page. Good idea, bad idea?-- Mr Fink 12:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
See wp:lead. The lead should summarize the article, which necessitates some redundancy. The lead should also make the reader care and be accessible. That's why I added reference to cetaceans. Leadwind 01:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Considering that fossil hippos and their ancestors don't enter the fossil record until millions of years after the first whales do, making hippos whale ancestors is kind of bogus, don'tya think?
Ericl (
talk)
15:55, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Can you really call it a hoof when it's just a tiny blunt nail at the end of the digit? Unless they walk on it, it really doesn't qualify as a hoof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 ( talk) 20:12, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes it qualifies, all hooves are modified nails . 05:26, 8 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by XtremeFanatic ( talk • contribs)
Are there any papers explaining the demotion of Mesonychia from order to suborder?-- Mr Fink ( talk) 21:43, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
What's the difference . 05:24, 8 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by XtremeFanatic ( talk • contribs)
How are "mesonychid" and "Mesonychia" pronounced? I would guess /miˈsɒnɪkɪd/ and /misɒˈnɪkiə/; note the different emphasis. On that note, what's the source language? I think it's Greek but I didn't see it mentioned on this page or Mesonychidae or Mesonyx. — W.andrea ( talk) 16:31, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) BegbertBiggs ( talk) 13:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Mesonychid →
Mesonychia – Taxonomic names for extinct taxa themselves should be prioritized over taxonomic term versions, consistent with taxonomic clades where
WP:CommonName doesn't apply. In this case, Mesonychia should be prioritized over "mesonychid."
PrimalMustelid (
talk)
17:57, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Technically speaking, the term "mesonychid" refers specifically only to the members of the family Mesonychidae, such as the species of the genus Mesonyx. However, as the order is also renamed for Mesonyx, the term "mesonychid" is now used to refer to members of the entire order Mesonychia and the species of other families within it.If this is moved, then the resulting redirect should be a disambiguation that states something similarly to this. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:07, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Proto-Artiodactyl has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 19 § Proto-Artiodactyl until a consensus is reached.
Plantdrew (
talk)
21:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Cete (clade) has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 19 § Cete (clade) until a consensus is reached.
Plantdrew (
talk)
21:52, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have reverted a recent change on Andrewsarchus mongoliensis where Mesonychia was listed as a suborder of Artiodactyla. There are two competing hypothesis concerning the nearest relatives of Mesonychia. The traditional morphological view suggests that they are related to whales. Under this view either Mesonychia, Cetacea, and Artiodactyla are separate orders, the order Cetacea (or Cete as seen in McKenna and Bell, 1997) includes a suborder Mesonychia, or Mesonychia is a suborder of Cetartiodactyla, an order uniting whales and artiodactyls.
Alternatively, recent molecular and morphological work suggests that whales evolved from within the "artiodactyls" and Mesonychia represents a close relative but a distinct group. Under this view either Mesonychia and Cetartiodactyla are distinct orders, or Mesonychia is the most basal suborder within the Cetartiodactyla. To my knowledge no authorities argue that the mesonychids are more closely related to artiodactyls than to cetaceans.
I think recognizing Mesonychia as a distinct order is consistent with any of these hypotheses for relationships and would be the most appropriate position for us to take. Alternatively, it could be treated as a suborder of Cete (Cetacea) if we accept the old morphological hypothesis, but I don't think that's the mainstream approach since the publication of the molecular findings. -- Aranae 21:59, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Southern Elephant Seal is said to be the largest land predator, not Kodiak Bear, and the difference is very significant (2045 kg vs 700 kg for average males). On the other hand, seals are not hunting while on land. Proski 21:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Ultimately, I think we should make Mesonychidae its own article, rather than just a redirect to this page. Good idea, bad idea?-- Mr Fink 12:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
See wp:lead. The lead should summarize the article, which necessitates some redundancy. The lead should also make the reader care and be accessible. That's why I added reference to cetaceans. Leadwind 01:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Considering that fossil hippos and their ancestors don't enter the fossil record until millions of years after the first whales do, making hippos whale ancestors is kind of bogus, don'tya think?
Ericl (
talk)
15:55, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Can you really call it a hoof when it's just a tiny blunt nail at the end of the digit? Unless they walk on it, it really doesn't qualify as a hoof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 ( talk) 20:12, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes it qualifies, all hooves are modified nails . 05:26, 8 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by XtremeFanatic ( talk • contribs)
Are there any papers explaining the demotion of Mesonychia from order to suborder?-- Mr Fink ( talk) 21:43, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
What's the difference . 05:24, 8 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by XtremeFanatic ( talk • contribs)
How are "mesonychid" and "Mesonychia" pronounced? I would guess /miˈsɒnɪkɪd/ and /misɒˈnɪkiə/; note the different emphasis. On that note, what's the source language? I think it's Greek but I didn't see it mentioned on this page or Mesonychidae or Mesonyx. — W.andrea ( talk) 16:31, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) BegbertBiggs ( talk) 13:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Mesonychid →
Mesonychia – Taxonomic names for extinct taxa themselves should be prioritized over taxonomic term versions, consistent with taxonomic clades where
WP:CommonName doesn't apply. In this case, Mesonychia should be prioritized over "mesonychid."
PrimalMustelid (
talk)
17:57, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Technically speaking, the term "mesonychid" refers specifically only to the members of the family Mesonychidae, such as the species of the genus Mesonyx. However, as the order is also renamed for Mesonyx, the term "mesonychid" is now used to refer to members of the entire order Mesonychia and the species of other families within it.If this is moved, then the resulting redirect should be a disambiguation that states something similarly to this. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:07, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Proto-Artiodactyl has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 19 § Proto-Artiodactyl until a consensus is reached.
Plantdrew (
talk)
21:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Cete (clade) has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 19 § Cete (clade) until a consensus is reached.
Plantdrew (
talk)
21:52, 19 October 2023 (UTC)