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This is a start on this school article. Further advice is available at the school project page. 1. Add some topics (like history, notable alumni, etc) 2. Keep adding references 3. Add pictures 4. Ask for an assessment at the schools project. EagleFan ( talk) 17:15, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Mercy Career and Technical High School - This didn't require a discussion hence why I've moved it – Davey2010 Talk 13:41, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Mercy Vocational High School →
Mercy Career & Technical – School has changed has rebranded itself. Please see:
https://www.mercycte.org for further information regarding rebranding.
WburleyCTE (
talk)
14:15, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not Moved Closing again - We never use & and and as noted below it's clearly a High School, I'd advise the nom to pack it in with the requests and move on - The school will remain at "Mercy Career and Technical High School" for all of eternity ... well until it rebrands itself again I suppose, Anyway consensus is to leave it be. – Davey2010 Talk 19:01, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Mercy Career and Technical High School → Mercy Career & Technical – Page was moved, however it was incorrectly named. The school's branding reflects Mercy Career & Technical with the use of the "&" and never using "and". WburleyCTE ( talk) 12:49, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
@ Davey2010: I have followed the request moves and agree that full naming is to be used, as on the website. The naming followed a proposal by John_from_Idegon, with only a simple glitch: the use of and instead of &. I asked him why and got no answer. I though I was ignored because the question was trivial and made what looked to me now a uncontroversial move. -- Robertiki ( talk) 04:00, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
So you should have appealed the close of the move. If you intend to do that, please do so. But to continue to protest here is more waste of other editor's time just as your message at my talk page. The matter was settled. If you did not like the way it was settled, you have and had avenues available to you. None of them led to my talk page. I could not do anything to help you. Please either take this to move review or drop it. I will thank you for bringing this article unto my radar tho. It was, not untypical of a parochial school's page, quite promotional. It's not anymore. John from Idegon ( talk) 05:23, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Guys, this is starting to look like a High School quality argument here. Robertiki is correct in assuming I work for Mercy. I was asked to assist with updating the schools branding across all of their different online profiles. I've edited and built a few mediawiki sites before but never edited the real wikipedia before so my apologies for passing over guidelines that may be in place. I know ignorance of the rules isn't the best excuse but again, my apologies. I spoke with Davey2010 and understand why the "High School" portion must be displayed however if, and I'm just trying to understand what Dave has told me here, if the "&" comes down to preference I'll say that the school would prefer the "&" be used. It's how it displays everywhere online, it's how it displays on the transcripts, the report cards, the acceptance letters, all the checks, and even the front of the building. It's a dumb thing but if that is how it shows everywhere else wouldn't it then make sense to maintain that on this page? Anyway, I appreciate the heads up from Davey2010 regarding the rules here and equally appreciate Robertiki for attempting to assist. Response time when it comes to replies seems to be a big deal here so I'll give the heads up that I'm currently traveling and likely wont be able to respond for the next day or so. Thanks again, have a great weekend. WburleyCTE ( talk) 05:47, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
You have shown 0 good faith in everything you have done here. So, these are your choices going forward:
Good night! John from Idegon ( talk) 07:28, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Alright, after a good sleep, everthing looks brighter. First I would like to apologize if I had caused any bad feelings. I would say that we all started on the wrong foot. Second, assuming good faith, missing evidence of intentional wrongdoing (I got it from my ANI request), I made some research to find misunderstanding points, and found a couple. Why I am not dropping the item ? Because I feel that I was not the only one to make mistakes and if the other mistakes are not exposed, what happened would repeat with another move or edit. I have found the following scenario (if I missed something, point it to me):
First my mistake, at number (13) I have made a question in the talk page of John from Idegon that instead I should have placed in the Mercy Career and Technical High School talk page. And now what I think was bad done:
Before going to sleep, I felt really dispirited (as evident per my ANI-request), so this morning I took a read that took me to Wikipedia:Civility#Identifying incivility. The point I found interesting is (at dealing with) : 1. First of all, consider whether you and the other editor may simply have misunderstood each other. Clarify, and ask for clarification. That is the reason of all this work. Another point is 4. ... Sometimes it helps to let the other editor know how their edit made you feel. Editors are not mind-readers. ... and that is my message for John from Idegon, following are the wording which made me feel bad:
So now, anything explained, it would be nice if you: “...strike out the unpleasant comments, or re-word it calmly and neutrally”.
To
Davey2010 I am asking if you are aware of
Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions:
Conflicts of interest: “An editor who has previously closed a move request relating to the same article may be seen as biased, especially if the previous request they closed is similar to the new request.”
Non-admin closure: “Non-admin closes normally require that: The consensus or lack thereof is clear after a full listing period (seven days).”.
In both closures, you did not give time to other editors to express their stand.
I would ask if we could resolve the point in good manner, starting anew ?
Note: I am not in anyway connected to that school.--
Robertiki (
talk)
21:38, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved with support. (non-admin closure) — Andy W. ( talk · ctb) 02:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Mercy Career and Technical High School → Mercy Career & Technical High School – There's been a big debate above over whether the article should be named "Mercy Career and Technical" or "Mercy Career & Technical High School", As someone above disagrees with the article title I'm firing up a new RM (Yes this is disruptive on all forms however I did technically close both early so instead of arguing to death over it I figured I'd fire it up and this time leave it for the full 7 days, I personally believe the article is fine and that we shouldn't use ampersand however I'll let the community decide, I would ask that everyone keeps their !vote short and sweet and to save all the "moans" for another day, Thanks, – Davey2010 Talk 22:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Retain ampersands in titles of works or organizations, such as Up & Down or AT&T, it says. The one area I would take issue though, is the assertion anove that "
WP:COMMONNAME does not apply to orgranization names". That is false - WP:COMMONNAME applies everywhere. But that said, I don't see any evidence of reliable sources significantly deviating from the official name in terms of using the ampersand; it mostly seems to be present. — Amakuru ( talk) 10:05, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
WburleyCTE asked if he may vote about the closing of the move request. I think the question warrants its own section.
My answer is: no.
He also made the hint: This whole thing makes me want to just request the page be deleted and its simply referenced under the Sisters of Mercy page.. My answer, is: yes, you may request, but I can't find a reason to delete the page only because somebody working for Mercy CTE asks for it. If a page is deleted it is for lack of
Wikipedia:Notability criteria, not why the name holder asked.
WburleyCTE, if you have other questions about your role on this article, this is the place to talk, but before
read
Bearcat explanations in the above archived talk. --
Robertiki (
talk)
00:17, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Of the sources you list, either they lack independence or reliability (Jostens is a class ring and yearbook vendor, not a directory. The athletic league and the scholarship organization are organizations the school belongs to. The Sisters of Mercy are the organization that runs the school. Hence these are not independent. And a school website is barely reliable for info on its own school...certainly not another). John from Idegon ( talk) 16:06, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of the main School building(s) be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
Wikipedians in Philadelphia may be able to help! The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
This is a start on this school article. Further advice is available at the school project page. 1. Add some topics (like history, notable alumni, etc) 2. Keep adding references 3. Add pictures 4. Ask for an assessment at the schools project. EagleFan ( talk) 17:15, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Mercy Career and Technical High School - This didn't require a discussion hence why I've moved it – Davey2010 Talk 13:41, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Mercy Vocational High School →
Mercy Career & Technical – School has changed has rebranded itself. Please see:
https://www.mercycte.org for further information regarding rebranding.
WburleyCTE (
talk)
14:15, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not Moved Closing again - We never use & and and as noted below it's clearly a High School, I'd advise the nom to pack it in with the requests and move on - The school will remain at "Mercy Career and Technical High School" for all of eternity ... well until it rebrands itself again I suppose, Anyway consensus is to leave it be. – Davey2010 Talk 19:01, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Mercy Career and Technical High School → Mercy Career & Technical – Page was moved, however it was incorrectly named. The school's branding reflects Mercy Career & Technical with the use of the "&" and never using "and". WburleyCTE ( talk) 12:49, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
@ Davey2010: I have followed the request moves and agree that full naming is to be used, as on the website. The naming followed a proposal by John_from_Idegon, with only a simple glitch: the use of and instead of &. I asked him why and got no answer. I though I was ignored because the question was trivial and made what looked to me now a uncontroversial move. -- Robertiki ( talk) 04:00, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
So you should have appealed the close of the move. If you intend to do that, please do so. But to continue to protest here is more waste of other editor's time just as your message at my talk page. The matter was settled. If you did not like the way it was settled, you have and had avenues available to you. None of them led to my talk page. I could not do anything to help you. Please either take this to move review or drop it. I will thank you for bringing this article unto my radar tho. It was, not untypical of a parochial school's page, quite promotional. It's not anymore. John from Idegon ( talk) 05:23, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Guys, this is starting to look like a High School quality argument here. Robertiki is correct in assuming I work for Mercy. I was asked to assist with updating the schools branding across all of their different online profiles. I've edited and built a few mediawiki sites before but never edited the real wikipedia before so my apologies for passing over guidelines that may be in place. I know ignorance of the rules isn't the best excuse but again, my apologies. I spoke with Davey2010 and understand why the "High School" portion must be displayed however if, and I'm just trying to understand what Dave has told me here, if the "&" comes down to preference I'll say that the school would prefer the "&" be used. It's how it displays everywhere online, it's how it displays on the transcripts, the report cards, the acceptance letters, all the checks, and even the front of the building. It's a dumb thing but if that is how it shows everywhere else wouldn't it then make sense to maintain that on this page? Anyway, I appreciate the heads up from Davey2010 regarding the rules here and equally appreciate Robertiki for attempting to assist. Response time when it comes to replies seems to be a big deal here so I'll give the heads up that I'm currently traveling and likely wont be able to respond for the next day or so. Thanks again, have a great weekend. WburleyCTE ( talk) 05:47, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
You have shown 0 good faith in everything you have done here. So, these are your choices going forward:
Good night! John from Idegon ( talk) 07:28, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Alright, after a good sleep, everthing looks brighter. First I would like to apologize if I had caused any bad feelings. I would say that we all started on the wrong foot. Second, assuming good faith, missing evidence of intentional wrongdoing (I got it from my ANI request), I made some research to find misunderstanding points, and found a couple. Why I am not dropping the item ? Because I feel that I was not the only one to make mistakes and if the other mistakes are not exposed, what happened would repeat with another move or edit. I have found the following scenario (if I missed something, point it to me):
First my mistake, at number (13) I have made a question in the talk page of John from Idegon that instead I should have placed in the Mercy Career and Technical High School talk page. And now what I think was bad done:
Before going to sleep, I felt really dispirited (as evident per my ANI-request), so this morning I took a read that took me to Wikipedia:Civility#Identifying incivility. The point I found interesting is (at dealing with) : 1. First of all, consider whether you and the other editor may simply have misunderstood each other. Clarify, and ask for clarification. That is the reason of all this work. Another point is 4. ... Sometimes it helps to let the other editor know how their edit made you feel. Editors are not mind-readers. ... and that is my message for John from Idegon, following are the wording which made me feel bad:
So now, anything explained, it would be nice if you: “...strike out the unpleasant comments, or re-word it calmly and neutrally”.
To
Davey2010 I am asking if you are aware of
Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions:
Conflicts of interest: “An editor who has previously closed a move request relating to the same article may be seen as biased, especially if the previous request they closed is similar to the new request.”
Non-admin closure: “Non-admin closes normally require that: The consensus or lack thereof is clear after a full listing period (seven days).”.
In both closures, you did not give time to other editors to express their stand.
I would ask if we could resolve the point in good manner, starting anew ?
Note: I am not in anyway connected to that school.--
Robertiki (
talk)
21:38, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved with support. (non-admin closure) — Andy W. ( talk · ctb) 02:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Mercy Career and Technical High School → Mercy Career & Technical High School – There's been a big debate above over whether the article should be named "Mercy Career and Technical" or "Mercy Career & Technical High School", As someone above disagrees with the article title I'm firing up a new RM (Yes this is disruptive on all forms however I did technically close both early so instead of arguing to death over it I figured I'd fire it up and this time leave it for the full 7 days, I personally believe the article is fine and that we shouldn't use ampersand however I'll let the community decide, I would ask that everyone keeps their !vote short and sweet and to save all the "moans" for another day, Thanks, – Davey2010 Talk 22:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Retain ampersands in titles of works or organizations, such as Up & Down or AT&T, it says. The one area I would take issue though, is the assertion anove that "
WP:COMMONNAME does not apply to orgranization names". That is false - WP:COMMONNAME applies everywhere. But that said, I don't see any evidence of reliable sources significantly deviating from the official name in terms of using the ampersand; it mostly seems to be present. — Amakuru ( talk) 10:05, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
WburleyCTE asked if he may vote about the closing of the move request. I think the question warrants its own section.
My answer is: no.
He also made the hint: This whole thing makes me want to just request the page be deleted and its simply referenced under the Sisters of Mercy page.. My answer, is: yes, you may request, but I can't find a reason to delete the page only because somebody working for Mercy CTE asks for it. If a page is deleted it is for lack of
Wikipedia:Notability criteria, not why the name holder asked.
WburleyCTE, if you have other questions about your role on this article, this is the place to talk, but before
read
Bearcat explanations in the above archived talk. --
Robertiki (
talk)
00:17, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Of the sources you list, either they lack independence or reliability (Jostens is a class ring and yearbook vendor, not a directory. The athletic league and the scholarship organization are organizations the school belongs to. The Sisters of Mercy are the organization that runs the school. Hence these are not independent. And a school website is barely reliable for info on its own school...certainly not another). John from Idegon ( talk) 16:06, 27 July 2016 (UTC)