This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Hungary on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HungaryWikipedia:WikiProject HungaryTemplate:WikiProject HungaryHungary articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Romania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Romania-
related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.RomaniaWikipedia:WikiProject RomaniaTemplate:WikiProject RomaniaRomania articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Any ideas behind the reasons for this Roman/Latin name name? Any connection to any
Magyar name? --
Codrin.B (
talk) 07:48, 2 April 2013 (UTC)reply
Contemporary sources (diplomas, charters) refer to him as "Mercurius". His Hungarian name is Merkúr. --
Norden1990 (
talk) 13:24, 2 April 2013 (UTC)reply
The reason is the fact that medieval Latin was the language of administration.
Fakirbakir (
talk) 13:34, 2 April 2013 (UTC)reply
Right, but what was his Magyar name, if he was a Magyar? Merkúr comes from Mercurius, not the other way around. --
Codrin.B (
talk) 11:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)reply
I have found an interesting source
[1], unfortunately it is in Hungarian. According to this source there was a Benedict priest named Mercurius who took the Holy Right of St Stephen to Transylvania in 1061. However he was still alive in 1083 when he had to explain his action to others.
Fakirbakir (
talk) 12:26, 3 April 2013 (UTC)reply
That's an interetsing obesrvation. If he was a priest (it was quite common that high-ranked priest had large estates), that could explain the Latin name, as well. At least this shows that "Mercurius" was not an unprecedented name in that time.
KœrteFa{ταλκ} 16:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)reply
Yes, but this Mercurius served as voivode between 1111 and 1113, so he had to be very old for that time. Codrinb, Merkúr probably was also an old Hungarian name, like Leusták, Legforus or Écs (neither used nowadays). --
Norden1990 (
talk) 12:57, 3 April 2013 (UTC)reply
Merkúr probably was also an old Hungarian name, like Leusták, Legforus or Écs - articles should not be based on personal thoughts
Newnou (
talk) 13:52, 3 April 2013 (UTC)reply
I do not see the relevance whether "Mercurius"/"Merkúr" is an original Hungarian name. Even if it was, it would not prove for sure that he was ethnic Hungarian. And even if it was not, still an ethnic Hungarian could have this name. Or it could also be a Latinized variant of a name that did not have a clear Latin equivalent (and then "Merkúr" would be a wrong translation). But the name could also suggest, for example, that he had Italian ancestry. We simply do not know (as far as I know). Therefore, the safest is to link the
Nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary article. Cheers,
KœrteFa{ταλκ} 16:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)reply
PS: An interesting fact that the first newspaper of Hungary was called "Mercurius Hungaricus"
[2], thought it was published centuries later, hence, not that relevant here.
KœrteFa{ταλκ} 16:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)reply
There is no "Mercurio comes Bellegratae",
The article states: "A source from 1097[which?] also mentions a "Mercurio comes Bellegratae". There is no such mention: Gaufredus Malaterra in his "De rebus gestis Rogerii Calabriae et Siciliae" mentions "Vincurius, comes Bellegratae". László Makkai speculated that this Vincurius can be the same person with "Mercurius princeps Ultrasilvanus", and from this speculation the "Mercurio comes Bellegratae" monstruosity aroused... — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Sattila (
talk •
contribs) 20:45, 4 January 2017 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Hungary on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HungaryWikipedia:WikiProject HungaryTemplate:WikiProject HungaryHungary articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Romania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Romania-
related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.RomaniaWikipedia:WikiProject RomaniaTemplate:WikiProject RomaniaRomania articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Any ideas behind the reasons for this Roman/Latin name name? Any connection to any
Magyar name? --
Codrin.B (
talk) 07:48, 2 April 2013 (UTC)reply
Contemporary sources (diplomas, charters) refer to him as "Mercurius". His Hungarian name is Merkúr. --
Norden1990 (
talk) 13:24, 2 April 2013 (UTC)reply
The reason is the fact that medieval Latin was the language of administration.
Fakirbakir (
talk) 13:34, 2 April 2013 (UTC)reply
Right, but what was his Magyar name, if he was a Magyar? Merkúr comes from Mercurius, not the other way around. --
Codrin.B (
talk) 11:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)reply
I have found an interesting source
[1], unfortunately it is in Hungarian. According to this source there was a Benedict priest named Mercurius who took the Holy Right of St Stephen to Transylvania in 1061. However he was still alive in 1083 when he had to explain his action to others.
Fakirbakir (
talk) 12:26, 3 April 2013 (UTC)reply
That's an interetsing obesrvation. If he was a priest (it was quite common that high-ranked priest had large estates), that could explain the Latin name, as well. At least this shows that "Mercurius" was not an unprecedented name in that time.
KœrteFa{ταλκ} 16:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)reply
Yes, but this Mercurius served as voivode between 1111 and 1113, so he had to be very old for that time. Codrinb, Merkúr probably was also an old Hungarian name, like Leusták, Legforus or Écs (neither used nowadays). --
Norden1990 (
talk) 12:57, 3 April 2013 (UTC)reply
Merkúr probably was also an old Hungarian name, like Leusták, Legforus or Écs - articles should not be based on personal thoughts
Newnou (
talk) 13:52, 3 April 2013 (UTC)reply
I do not see the relevance whether "Mercurius"/"Merkúr" is an original Hungarian name. Even if it was, it would not prove for sure that he was ethnic Hungarian. And even if it was not, still an ethnic Hungarian could have this name. Or it could also be a Latinized variant of a name that did not have a clear Latin equivalent (and then "Merkúr" would be a wrong translation). But the name could also suggest, for example, that he had Italian ancestry. We simply do not know (as far as I know). Therefore, the safest is to link the
Nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary article. Cheers,
KœrteFa{ταλκ} 16:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)reply
PS: An interesting fact that the first newspaper of Hungary was called "Mercurius Hungaricus"
[2], thought it was published centuries later, hence, not that relevant here.
KœrteFa{ταλκ} 16:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)reply
There is no "Mercurio comes Bellegratae",
The article states: "A source from 1097[which?] also mentions a "Mercurio comes Bellegratae". There is no such mention: Gaufredus Malaterra in his "De rebus gestis Rogerii Calabriae et Siciliae" mentions "Vincurius, comes Bellegratae". László Makkai speculated that this Vincurius can be the same person with "Mercurius princeps Ultrasilvanus", and from this speculation the "Mercurio comes Bellegratae" monstruosity aroused... — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Sattila (
talk •
contribs) 20:45, 4 January 2017 (UTC)reply