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Shouldn't this be at Merano instead of Meran-Merano? Wiki naming policy is to have the official name listed- as the city is in Italy, this would therefore be the Italian name. The intro would therefore read "Merano ( German: Meran) is a city..." Of course, the German-population majority would also be listed. Olessi 15:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
That move would also affect the other Category:Towns in South Tyrol. Both German and Italian are official languages in South Tyrol. This bilingual naming system looks like it has been the result of an edit war, I don't know. It would be a lot easier if there would be common English names for these towns, like Brussels. For a similar situation see the municipalities in the Brussels-Capital Region of Belgium, they're officially bilingual French/Dutch, but apparently all the articles are at the French names. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I guess it looks more professional than Meran-Merano etc. Markussep 16:08, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
The statements found in this article regarding language use in that part of Tyrol formerly belonging to Austria are not correct.
Check the 'History' chapter:
'Nevertheless, all originally tyrolean geographic names were prohibited and exchanged through Italianised names (even surnames lost their validity until World War II). After 1945, it became one of the most important sites of tourism in the region.'
Now go to
[1],
chapter 'Today' and compare. According to my knowledge, what the author says there about the status of the respective languages reflects the situation.
In other words: The dominating language is german, and so the german names have survived - also officially. There is an italian minority, and they use their italian names for the places.
What about correcting the language statements in the Meran article?
Michael Laudahn 17:33, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
The name is Merano, please don't erase.Keep the righ name —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.15.223.124 ( talk) 15:08, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Please keep the right name, don't change the right name MERANO to the wrong name Meran. Please no more vandalism. Stop to the racism and austrian nationalism! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.54.115.232 ( talk) 18:13, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Südtirol is not Italy! Even though it belongs (currently) to Italy the language is predominantly German and not Italian. Hence, I don't think the Italian name should be used in the English wikipedia. Btw. The name Merano was invented by the Italian fascists in the 1920s. -- 91.63.167.111 ( talk) 13:50, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
1. an article about a south tyrolian village should be named like the majority of its population calls it, and the other language just in italics.. what would lead to for example: Bolzano, Salorno, Bruneck, Brixen, Meran this would be the most evident solution or 2. the article should be named with both the german and italian names, and which one first, depending on how its called by the majority of its inhabitants but not with hyphen in between but with slash.. what would lead to Meran / Merano, Bruneck / Brunico Bolzano / Bozen
i dont understand why not everyone comes to this solution when thinking about it of course it should be named either how its called by the majority of its inhabitants, or by both names, with the more used first... so why Merano? Jadran91 ( talk) 03:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
I took the initiative to contact the city, and their reply is availible at User talk:ChrisDHDR/e-mail#Official position on the name of Meran.2FMerano. Obviously the official name in english is Merano-Meran, and I think we can safely move it there without any opposition. Chris DHDR 15:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
I think the name of this article should be Meran, not Merano. The majority of the population speaks German and we have established the rule to name the cities after the language spoken by the majority. Gryffindor ( talk) 20:15, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
I know there has been a section on that, but let's request a move to Meran again. The city belongs to South Tyrol, and the language of the autonomous province of South Tyrol is German (despite its belonging to the state of Italy - just as Québec's language is French, despite its belonging to the state of Canada). This one here even happens to have a German-speaking majority. If I'm rightly informed the Ladin name is Meran too. I don't even see where there could be a possible discussion. - That is, unless "Merano" would be the established English name, as Cologne is for Köln. In that case: it's the English wikipedia. But while I don't really know, I don't think this is the case. And in that case: it's not the Italian wikipedia.-- 131.159.0.47 ( talk) 15:55, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
It's not a good idea to reopen difficult issues without first reading the previous discussions. Talk:Merano/Archive 1 has a colossal amount of argument on this very topic. The overriding policy for determining the name of this article is WP:UE, i.e. what is the town most commonly called in modern English. As the region moved from Austrian to Italian control after WWI, we can expect English usage before 1919 to differ considerably from usage after that date. It is therefore no value whatsoever to quote sources dating to the 1800s as a guide to current English usage. I suggest you re-read the debate at Talk:Merano/Archive 1 #Requested move to Merano (5 July 2009), in particular the arguments put forward by Ian Spackman and Pmanderson - not least the usage of Merano in contemporary English encyclopedias like Britannica and Encarta - and the refutation of the list of 19th century books produced in that section as evidence. It is clear from the previous debates that the majority usage in current English is 'Merano'. -- RexxS ( talk) 15:38, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Encyclopedias:
- Britannica Merano
- Columbia Merano (only mentioned in article about Innsbruck)
- Encarta Merano
Google scholar (articles from the period 1957-2007, including "italy" to exclude authors with surnames Meran and Merano):
Google news archive (articles from the period 1957-2007, including "italy" to exclude people with surnames Meran and Merano):
Google books (from the period 1957-2007, including "italy" to exclude people with surnames Meran and Merano):
Google English language, only .org, -wiki:
- Merano without Meran 10,100
- Meran without Merano 590
I'm sure several "false hits" slipped through, but the overall picture is clear IMO: both names are used in English, "Merano" more frequently than "Meran". For the statistics enthousiasts: I used a more robust, but very time consuming method in this discussion about Belgian municipalities. - Markussep
In determining which of several alternative names is most frequently used, it is useful to observe the usage of major international organizations, major English-language media outlets, quality encyclopedias, geographic name servers, major scientific bodies, and notable scientific journals. A search engine may help to collect this data; when using a search engine, restrict the results to pages written in English, and exclude the word "Wikipedia". When using Google, generally a search of Google Books and News Archive should be defaulted to before a web search, as they concentrate reliable sources- Wikipedia:Article titles #Use commonly recognizable names
Mai-Sachme, we have a rather simple choice here. You can either change behaviour completely and start discussing the topic at hand, and we can go on discussing Meran or Merano. Or you can continue your current behaviour of sarcasm and personal attacks at everybody who disagrees, and we can move the discussion to ANI to discuss whether your behaviour belongs at Wikipedia. The choice is yours, as everybody else is actively and politely discussing the actual topic. I might have read too much into Mai-Sachme's comment, but I'd like to remind everybody that sarcasm is never very helpful.
Jeppiz (
talk)
08:01, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Oh, well, I see. The ngram graphs are a result of myriads of reprinted books from imperial times, additionally, those graphs are proved wrong by ten years old raw Google searches, and the ultimate evidence is a list of 10 (!) modern sources. Case closed.and
I'm happy to see that you finally bothered to do some research.are sarcastic, then you are obviously not accustomed to using English and there's no value in attempting to debate further with you. I'm quite familiar with WP:AGF, as well as WP:PACT, thanks. I suggest that you try to understand WP:CIR. -- RexxS ( talk) 13:36, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
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I reverted a name change made without consensus for this article where there has been prolonged debate on the correct name in the past. Please establish consensus before moving an article where there are varied opinions on what the name should be. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:43, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
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Shouldn't this be at Merano instead of Meran-Merano? Wiki naming policy is to have the official name listed- as the city is in Italy, this would therefore be the Italian name. The intro would therefore read "Merano ( German: Meran) is a city..." Of course, the German-population majority would also be listed. Olessi 15:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
That move would also affect the other Category:Towns in South Tyrol. Both German and Italian are official languages in South Tyrol. This bilingual naming system looks like it has been the result of an edit war, I don't know. It would be a lot easier if there would be common English names for these towns, like Brussels. For a similar situation see the municipalities in the Brussels-Capital Region of Belgium, they're officially bilingual French/Dutch, but apparently all the articles are at the French names. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I guess it looks more professional than Meran-Merano etc. Markussep 16:08, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
The statements found in this article regarding language use in that part of Tyrol formerly belonging to Austria are not correct.
Check the 'History' chapter:
'Nevertheless, all originally tyrolean geographic names were prohibited and exchanged through Italianised names (even surnames lost their validity until World War II). After 1945, it became one of the most important sites of tourism in the region.'
Now go to
[1],
chapter 'Today' and compare. According to my knowledge, what the author says there about the status of the respective languages reflects the situation.
In other words: The dominating language is german, and so the german names have survived - also officially. There is an italian minority, and they use their italian names for the places.
What about correcting the language statements in the Meran article?
Michael Laudahn 17:33, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
The name is Merano, please don't erase.Keep the righ name —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.15.223.124 ( talk) 15:08, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Please keep the right name, don't change the right name MERANO to the wrong name Meran. Please no more vandalism. Stop to the racism and austrian nationalism! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.54.115.232 ( talk) 18:13, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Südtirol is not Italy! Even though it belongs (currently) to Italy the language is predominantly German and not Italian. Hence, I don't think the Italian name should be used in the English wikipedia. Btw. The name Merano was invented by the Italian fascists in the 1920s. -- 91.63.167.111 ( talk) 13:50, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
1. an article about a south tyrolian village should be named like the majority of its population calls it, and the other language just in italics.. what would lead to for example: Bolzano, Salorno, Bruneck, Brixen, Meran this would be the most evident solution or 2. the article should be named with both the german and italian names, and which one first, depending on how its called by the majority of its inhabitants but not with hyphen in between but with slash.. what would lead to Meran / Merano, Bruneck / Brunico Bolzano / Bozen
i dont understand why not everyone comes to this solution when thinking about it of course it should be named either how its called by the majority of its inhabitants, or by both names, with the more used first... so why Merano? Jadran91 ( talk) 03:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
I took the initiative to contact the city, and their reply is availible at User talk:ChrisDHDR/e-mail#Official position on the name of Meran.2FMerano. Obviously the official name in english is Merano-Meran, and I think we can safely move it there without any opposition. Chris DHDR 15:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
I think the name of this article should be Meran, not Merano. The majority of the population speaks German and we have established the rule to name the cities after the language spoken by the majority. Gryffindor ( talk) 20:15, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
I know there has been a section on that, but let's request a move to Meran again. The city belongs to South Tyrol, and the language of the autonomous province of South Tyrol is German (despite its belonging to the state of Italy - just as Québec's language is French, despite its belonging to the state of Canada). This one here even happens to have a German-speaking majority. If I'm rightly informed the Ladin name is Meran too. I don't even see where there could be a possible discussion. - That is, unless "Merano" would be the established English name, as Cologne is for Köln. In that case: it's the English wikipedia. But while I don't really know, I don't think this is the case. And in that case: it's not the Italian wikipedia.-- 131.159.0.47 ( talk) 15:55, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
It's not a good idea to reopen difficult issues without first reading the previous discussions. Talk:Merano/Archive 1 has a colossal amount of argument on this very topic. The overriding policy for determining the name of this article is WP:UE, i.e. what is the town most commonly called in modern English. As the region moved from Austrian to Italian control after WWI, we can expect English usage before 1919 to differ considerably from usage after that date. It is therefore no value whatsoever to quote sources dating to the 1800s as a guide to current English usage. I suggest you re-read the debate at Talk:Merano/Archive 1 #Requested move to Merano (5 July 2009), in particular the arguments put forward by Ian Spackman and Pmanderson - not least the usage of Merano in contemporary English encyclopedias like Britannica and Encarta - and the refutation of the list of 19th century books produced in that section as evidence. It is clear from the previous debates that the majority usage in current English is 'Merano'. -- RexxS ( talk) 15:38, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Encyclopedias:
- Britannica Merano
- Columbia Merano (only mentioned in article about Innsbruck)
- Encarta Merano
Google scholar (articles from the period 1957-2007, including "italy" to exclude authors with surnames Meran and Merano):
Google news archive (articles from the period 1957-2007, including "italy" to exclude people with surnames Meran and Merano):
Google books (from the period 1957-2007, including "italy" to exclude people with surnames Meran and Merano):
Google English language, only .org, -wiki:
- Merano without Meran 10,100
- Meran without Merano 590
I'm sure several "false hits" slipped through, but the overall picture is clear IMO: both names are used in English, "Merano" more frequently than "Meran". For the statistics enthousiasts: I used a more robust, but very time consuming method in this discussion about Belgian municipalities. - Markussep
In determining which of several alternative names is most frequently used, it is useful to observe the usage of major international organizations, major English-language media outlets, quality encyclopedias, geographic name servers, major scientific bodies, and notable scientific journals. A search engine may help to collect this data; when using a search engine, restrict the results to pages written in English, and exclude the word "Wikipedia". When using Google, generally a search of Google Books and News Archive should be defaulted to before a web search, as they concentrate reliable sources- Wikipedia:Article titles #Use commonly recognizable names
Mai-Sachme, we have a rather simple choice here. You can either change behaviour completely and start discussing the topic at hand, and we can go on discussing Meran or Merano. Or you can continue your current behaviour of sarcasm and personal attacks at everybody who disagrees, and we can move the discussion to ANI to discuss whether your behaviour belongs at Wikipedia. The choice is yours, as everybody else is actively and politely discussing the actual topic. I might have read too much into Mai-Sachme's comment, but I'd like to remind everybody that sarcasm is never very helpful.
Jeppiz (
talk)
08:01, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Oh, well, I see. The ngram graphs are a result of myriads of reprinted books from imperial times, additionally, those graphs are proved wrong by ten years old raw Google searches, and the ultimate evidence is a list of 10 (!) modern sources. Case closed.and
I'm happy to see that you finally bothered to do some research.are sarcastic, then you are obviously not accustomed to using English and there's no value in attempting to debate further with you. I'm quite familiar with WP:AGF, as well as WP:PACT, thanks. I suggest that you try to understand WP:CIR. -- RexxS ( talk) 13:36, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:57, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
I reverted a name change made without consensus for this article where there has been prolonged debate on the correct name in the past. Please establish consensus before moving an article where there are varied opinions on what the name should be. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:43, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
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