This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Menzies Campbell article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Can anyone tell me why he has the "Right Honourable" prefix before his name? He's a member of the Privy Council then? I thought that was only for people who had been a member of the Cabinet.
If he is the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Democrats why isn't he the SHadow Deputy Prime Minister as well.
In answer to the question above, he is a Privy Councillor because the Prime Minister as a gesture to his standing in the House advised the Queen to make him one. Adam 06:24, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
He is a member of the Privy Council. However a fairly new policy detailed at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) states that we don't use The Right Honourable at the start of the article. It is quite correct to leave it in the picture caption, and the article mentions that he is a member of the Privy Council later in the text too. JRawle 17:12, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Would it be incorrect to insert the "Kt." postnominal in his styles and titles? After being ennobled it seems that there is no indication of his knighthood since he is a Knight Bachelor rather than a member of one of the orders. NDomer09 ( talk) 17:22, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
The introduction is unclear as to whether Ming is currently formally the Deputy Leader acting as leader whilst the post of Leader is vacant or somehow has been automatically become Leader. If he doesn't win the leadership election will he still be Deputy Leader or would there have to be a fresh official election (of MPs if I remember correctly) even if just to reappoint him? Timrollpickering 03:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
I suppose the Lib Dems can use whatever terminology they like, but England, Scotland and Wales are not "states" of a federation. Scotland and Wales are devolved regions, while England in a constitutional sense doesn't exist. Adam 01:41, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
A question of my own: I know little enough Scots, so wouldn't dream of asserting that the IPA transcription of his name is incorrect, but can someone please confirm that it is indeed [mɪŋɪs] rather than [mɪŋgɪs]? Ta.
No doubt ""Menzies" is correctly pronounced mingis (IPA: /ˈmɪŋɪs/ or /ˈmɪŋgɪs/)." But is that how HE pronounces it? I note that the BBC pronounces it Men-zeez.
Maybe the World Service doesn't have such high standards. I am glad to have the matter clarified. In Australia of course the pronunciation Men-zeez is standard, although Sir Robert Menzies enjoyed being called Ming the Merciless. Adam 10:38, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Where on earth does the name come from? The poor guy. I always pronounched it Men-zeez until recently, and when I was told it was Mingis I thought it was a joke. :D
So how should Dalziel and Lenzie be pronounced? British names are a nightmare for the rest of the world. Adam 05:09, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the 'z' is sort of silent or a 'yi' sound in some proper names (e.g. Culzean = 'Cul-ain', Dalziel = 'Dee-el', Menzies = 'Ming-is'). see [1]. Actually, this is very rare (I can't think of any other cases beyond there three) - and since it is only in a very few names, most Scots either just remember those names, or get it wrong. -- Doc ask? 11:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Menzies is his middle name; he will have been called by it if a member of his family, likely his father, shared his first name. It must have just stuck. It is 'ming-is', shortened by all to 'ming'. It definitely, definitely is not 'men-sees'.-- Zhengfu 18:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
See [ [4]] for info on pronunciation. Sbz5809 13:39, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
See [ [5]] this, from the Sunday Times. First words: 'Dubbed "Ming the Merciless" by cartoonists'. Sbz5809 13:30, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Also see Steve Bell [6], BBC News [7] and in their newspaper roundup [8], Daily Record [9]. Remains to be seen if this is a flash in the pan nickname, or if it catches on and sticks with him. Average Earthman 11:19, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I presume it is ironic, since he seems in fact to be a nice old boy. Bob Menzies really was Ming the Merciless. Adam 11:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Adam 11:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
oops - sorry for cocking up the date of the election, thanks to whomever fixed it :D jamesgibbon 15:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Instant-Runoff Voting is a term used principally in the United States. I think it's obvious that this article is and should be written in British English. The IRV article itself says that it's usually called Alternative Vote in the UK. Obviously, the link could read [[Instant-Runoff Voting|Alternative Vote]] but I prefer calling it Single Transferable Vote for the following reasions:
Richard Gadsden 06:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Menzies Campbell is a Knight Bachelor, which is not the same as a Kinght Commander of the British Empire. See [ [10]]. All the web references are to Sir Menzies Campbell CBE, not KBE.
This article makes no mention of his political beliefs whatsoever. Is he part of the social-liberal or economic-liberal wing of the party? Or neither? Presumably, this deficiency is due to a lack of information on the subject... 195.195.166.31 21:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I've made an attempt at a section on Ming's beliefs, based on the speeches and comment pieces I linked to. What do people think? The "moderate social liberal" summary seems appropriate to me: he's clearly no radical free marketeer, and spends a lot of time talking about poverty and inequality; but "social liberal" alone fails to distinguish him adequately from someone like Simon Hughes, who fought the leadership election on a platform clearly to the left of Ming and Chris Huhne. - Modernway, 14:50, 3 August 2006
I've made some changes to the previous edit to the beliefs section: "moderate social liberal" is still more appropriate then "strong social liberal" (see above); I don't understand what the difference between "correcting" and "preventing" a market failure is, but economists use the former term; and there's no need to link to European Union and United Nations twice in the same paragraph. Hope none of that's too controversial! - Modernway, 18:51, 22 August 2006
Is beliefs the right heading here? Wouldn't "political views" or "political positions" be a more accurate reflection of the topic? QuakerActivist ( talk) 12:22, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Did Menzies Cambell serve in any branch of the British armed forces? In what capacity?-- TGC55 21:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
How exactly was it Ming's decision? Surely this would have been a decision by whichever body in the University of St Andrews nominates people for honourary degrees, rather than the Chancellor directly exercising power? Timrollpickering 04:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
I've gone through and replaced all the lightblue links with inline citations. The article looks alot neater now. JameiLei 23:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The lasrt editor deleted the refernce to the fact that Ming returned to practice in a men-only set of advocates as being POV. This is, however, a fact which can be verified from the link provided. The Faculty of Advocates website will further confirm that the group in question is unique in Scotland as being men-only; all other stables or chambers have substantial numbers of women. A fact, even if uncomfortable, is not POV, although comment on that fact might well be! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.130.13.113 ( talk) 18:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
OK, but I amended the link to a specific page about Terra Firma, which retains the links to other chambers. Viewfinder ( talk) 14:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Should his title be suffixed also by MP? I can think of no reason to preclude it... Hypnoticmonkey ( talk) 13:26, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
The External links section has lots of BBC News articles that are surely more references than external links? Does anyone agree this needs tidying and if so anyone have time to do it? Biscit ( talk) 10:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the assessment of this article from "Start" to "C"; and I think it is very close to "B". I think most sections could be expanded, but other than that it's looking good. -- h2g2bob ( talk) 18:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
We give /ˈmɪŋɨs/, but according to the Menzies page, "The name is correctly pronounced [ˈmɪŋɪz]". Should it be /s/ or /z/? Lfh ( talk) 11:34, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
There appears to be some confusion about when he is to be ennobled. Parliament.uk says he "joined the Lords" on 13 October but he is not actually being introduced until 5 November. Generally the Letters Patent are dated the same day or the day before. So I am not convinced that the Queen has actually made him a baron yet... Mark Hamid ( talk) 16:36, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Menzies Campbell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/thearchive/display.var.2403999.0.hero_from_a_forsaken_generation.phpWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:25, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Menzies Campbell article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Can anyone tell me why he has the "Right Honourable" prefix before his name? He's a member of the Privy Council then? I thought that was only for people who had been a member of the Cabinet.
If he is the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Democrats why isn't he the SHadow Deputy Prime Minister as well.
In answer to the question above, he is a Privy Councillor because the Prime Minister as a gesture to his standing in the House advised the Queen to make him one. Adam 06:24, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
He is a member of the Privy Council. However a fairly new policy detailed at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) states that we don't use The Right Honourable at the start of the article. It is quite correct to leave it in the picture caption, and the article mentions that he is a member of the Privy Council later in the text too. JRawle 17:12, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Would it be incorrect to insert the "Kt." postnominal in his styles and titles? After being ennobled it seems that there is no indication of his knighthood since he is a Knight Bachelor rather than a member of one of the orders. NDomer09 ( talk) 17:22, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
The introduction is unclear as to whether Ming is currently formally the Deputy Leader acting as leader whilst the post of Leader is vacant or somehow has been automatically become Leader. If he doesn't win the leadership election will he still be Deputy Leader or would there have to be a fresh official election (of MPs if I remember correctly) even if just to reappoint him? Timrollpickering 03:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
I suppose the Lib Dems can use whatever terminology they like, but England, Scotland and Wales are not "states" of a federation. Scotland and Wales are devolved regions, while England in a constitutional sense doesn't exist. Adam 01:41, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
A question of my own: I know little enough Scots, so wouldn't dream of asserting that the IPA transcription of his name is incorrect, but can someone please confirm that it is indeed [mɪŋɪs] rather than [mɪŋgɪs]? Ta.
No doubt ""Menzies" is correctly pronounced mingis (IPA: /ˈmɪŋɪs/ or /ˈmɪŋgɪs/)." But is that how HE pronounces it? I note that the BBC pronounces it Men-zeez.
Maybe the World Service doesn't have such high standards. I am glad to have the matter clarified. In Australia of course the pronunciation Men-zeez is standard, although Sir Robert Menzies enjoyed being called Ming the Merciless. Adam 10:38, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Where on earth does the name come from? The poor guy. I always pronounched it Men-zeez until recently, and when I was told it was Mingis I thought it was a joke. :D
So how should Dalziel and Lenzie be pronounced? British names are a nightmare for the rest of the world. Adam 05:09, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the 'z' is sort of silent or a 'yi' sound in some proper names (e.g. Culzean = 'Cul-ain', Dalziel = 'Dee-el', Menzies = 'Ming-is'). see [1]. Actually, this is very rare (I can't think of any other cases beyond there three) - and since it is only in a very few names, most Scots either just remember those names, or get it wrong. -- Doc ask? 11:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Menzies is his middle name; he will have been called by it if a member of his family, likely his father, shared his first name. It must have just stuck. It is 'ming-is', shortened by all to 'ming'. It definitely, definitely is not 'men-sees'.-- Zhengfu 18:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
See [ [4]] for info on pronunciation. Sbz5809 13:39, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
See [ [5]] this, from the Sunday Times. First words: 'Dubbed "Ming the Merciless" by cartoonists'. Sbz5809 13:30, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Also see Steve Bell [6], BBC News [7] and in their newspaper roundup [8], Daily Record [9]. Remains to be seen if this is a flash in the pan nickname, or if it catches on and sticks with him. Average Earthman 11:19, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I presume it is ironic, since he seems in fact to be a nice old boy. Bob Menzies really was Ming the Merciless. Adam 11:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Adam 11:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
oops - sorry for cocking up the date of the election, thanks to whomever fixed it :D jamesgibbon 15:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Instant-Runoff Voting is a term used principally in the United States. I think it's obvious that this article is and should be written in British English. The IRV article itself says that it's usually called Alternative Vote in the UK. Obviously, the link could read [[Instant-Runoff Voting|Alternative Vote]] but I prefer calling it Single Transferable Vote for the following reasions:
Richard Gadsden 06:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Menzies Campbell is a Knight Bachelor, which is not the same as a Kinght Commander of the British Empire. See [ [10]]. All the web references are to Sir Menzies Campbell CBE, not KBE.
This article makes no mention of his political beliefs whatsoever. Is he part of the social-liberal or economic-liberal wing of the party? Or neither? Presumably, this deficiency is due to a lack of information on the subject... 195.195.166.31 21:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I've made an attempt at a section on Ming's beliefs, based on the speeches and comment pieces I linked to. What do people think? The "moderate social liberal" summary seems appropriate to me: he's clearly no radical free marketeer, and spends a lot of time talking about poverty and inequality; but "social liberal" alone fails to distinguish him adequately from someone like Simon Hughes, who fought the leadership election on a platform clearly to the left of Ming and Chris Huhne. - Modernway, 14:50, 3 August 2006
I've made some changes to the previous edit to the beliefs section: "moderate social liberal" is still more appropriate then "strong social liberal" (see above); I don't understand what the difference between "correcting" and "preventing" a market failure is, but economists use the former term; and there's no need to link to European Union and United Nations twice in the same paragraph. Hope none of that's too controversial! - Modernway, 18:51, 22 August 2006
Is beliefs the right heading here? Wouldn't "political views" or "political positions" be a more accurate reflection of the topic? QuakerActivist ( talk) 12:22, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Did Menzies Cambell serve in any branch of the British armed forces? In what capacity?-- TGC55 21:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
How exactly was it Ming's decision? Surely this would have been a decision by whichever body in the University of St Andrews nominates people for honourary degrees, rather than the Chancellor directly exercising power? Timrollpickering 04:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
I've gone through and replaced all the lightblue links with inline citations. The article looks alot neater now. JameiLei 23:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The lasrt editor deleted the refernce to the fact that Ming returned to practice in a men-only set of advocates as being POV. This is, however, a fact which can be verified from the link provided. The Faculty of Advocates website will further confirm that the group in question is unique in Scotland as being men-only; all other stables or chambers have substantial numbers of women. A fact, even if uncomfortable, is not POV, although comment on that fact might well be! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.130.13.113 ( talk) 18:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
OK, but I amended the link to a specific page about Terra Firma, which retains the links to other chambers. Viewfinder ( talk) 14:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Should his title be suffixed also by MP? I can think of no reason to preclude it... Hypnoticmonkey ( talk) 13:26, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
The External links section has lots of BBC News articles that are surely more references than external links? Does anyone agree this needs tidying and if so anyone have time to do it? Biscit ( talk) 10:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the assessment of this article from "Start" to "C"; and I think it is very close to "B". I think most sections could be expanded, but other than that it's looking good. -- h2g2bob ( talk) 18:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
We give /ˈmɪŋɨs/, but according to the Menzies page, "The name is correctly pronounced [ˈmɪŋɪz]". Should it be /s/ or /z/? Lfh ( talk) 11:34, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
There appears to be some confusion about when he is to be ennobled. Parliament.uk says he "joined the Lords" on 13 October but he is not actually being introduced until 5 November. Generally the Letters Patent are dated the same day or the day before. So I am not convinced that the Queen has actually made him a baron yet... Mark Hamid ( talk) 16:36, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Menzies Campbell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/thearchive/display.var.2403999.0.hero_from_a_forsaken_generation.phpWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:25, 10 December 2017 (UTC)