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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 April 2019 and 5 June 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Roysius.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:51, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The caption of one of the images of this article " The outer panels of Rogier van der Weyden's Braque Triptych shows the skull of the patron displayed in the inner panels. The bones rest on a brick, a symbol of his former industry and achievement.[1] " is in contradiction to the text of page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Braque_Triptych which says of the same item " Few analyses venture to theorize the symbolism of the fragment of stone. As the skull may represent Adam, it has been suggested that the stone represents a piece of Golgotha.[1] Whatever was intended by van der Weyden or his patrons, it may not have been symbolically relevant to the Braque family, as they were well-established as advisers and financiers to the House of Valois.[1] " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.149.188.121 ( talk) 13:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Stop reverting the translations. The translations are incorrect. They are interpretations, not translations, and it is not the place of wikipedia to interpret. It translates directly as "Remember you shall die." 76.247.185.191 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:03, 25 May 2009 (UTC).
I've removed the See Also for Death poem since Memento mori is about death, whereas a death poem is a poem written just before one's death, but is not about death. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 15:55, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Tertullianus is quoted as writing: "Respice post te! Hominem te esse memento!" That's a mistake (see here. Should be: "respice post te! Hominem te memento!"
192.115.133.141 11:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes. It is. Renee Neu Watkins, recent translator of Bartolomeo Scala Literary Essays and Letters (working title), HUP (forthcoming) http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/25/t/001162.html
a disambiguation page is needed for Memento Mori. Spearhead 22:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
There is a serious error concerning the Horace quotation. The poem is on the victory at Actium and has nothing to do with the afterlife. The rejoicing is due to Octavian's victory over Anthony.
this page needs some sub headings, and also a mention of The streets' song named Memento Mori
"The genre was little used in classical antiquity; there, the chief thrust of memento mori was the theme of carpe diem, or "seize the day." This carries echoes of the admonishment to "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die", the language of which originates in Isaiah 22:13: "Eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!" ( New American Bible translation). The thought appears elsewhere in Roman literature: Horace's Odes include the well known line Nunc est bibendum, nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus. (Now is the time to drink, now the time to dance footloose upon the earth.) Horace goes on to explain that now is the time because there will be no drinking or dancing in the afterlife, a classic example of the carpe diem theme."
Comment: The previous sentence is incorrect as to the context of "nunc est bibendum." This is the start of Horace Odes 1.37, where the cause for celebration is NOT one's own impending mortality, but rather the death of Cleopatra. cf. [ [1]], next-to-last poem on the page. Closer to the author's intent is Horace's famous "carpe diem" in Odes 1.11, where the point is not that there is no celebration in the afterlife (a thought that strikes me as more from the Psalms than from Horace) but rather that life should be enjoyed before it ends. The distinction is subtle but important, as Horace makes no claims here about the nature of the afterlife. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.242.22.194 ( talk • contribs).
The article contains this sentence: "The genre was little used in classical antiquity; there, the chief thrust of memento mori was the theme of carpe diem, or 'seize the day.'"
The sentence seems to conflate the attitudes of memento mori and carpe diem, whereas they are actually the obverse of one another. The former is a call to humility (in keeping with its supposed origin in the Roman triumph), whereas the latter is a call to enjoy life (as the context of Horace's ode makes clear).
The article would be clearer if the whole paragraph about carpe diem were replaced with a link to the carpe diem article, saying something like "Compare carpe diem." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.64.31.26 ( talk) 23:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
A phrase that I relate to "memento mori" is "sic transit gloria mundi" (as best as I can remember how to spell it).
Is there logical merit to mentioning this phrase also?
Is there historical merit?
1Fishmael 20:36, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
"In ancient Rome, the phrase is said to have been used . . ."
Whenever I come across phrases like "is said to be", "was said to", "it is said that . . " etc. in one of my students' essays, a huge red flag goes up in my mind (and I pull a huge red pen out of my pocket). It is a sure signal that the person wishes to maintain that something is a fact, believes he or she might have read it (um, once) (um, somewhere) (um, I think) (um, in a book . . . or something), but has absolutely no evidence or citation to back it up. Therefore, he or she attributes it to an anonymous source (which may or may not exist) by putting it in the passive voice and hoping that the reader won't notice. Hmm, problem solved.
"The phrase was otherwise referred to in the art of classical antiquity . . ."
Again, where is this "phrase" "referred to"? Of course the Latin verb "morior" (to die) appears in Latin literature and of course they write about death and mortality and the transience of human life. That doesn't constitute a reference. The theme is certainly present in pre-Christian Roman literature, as well as in the Book of Ecclesiastes, as well as in Greek literature. However, the phrase itself does not appear until the late Middle Ages.
The phrase "carpe diem" is not "related to" the phrase "memento mori". They mean completely different things, and although both themes are important in mediaeval, Renaissance, and Baroque art and literature, their implications are virtually the opposite of one another.
There are several passages in this article that make me suspect that the author does not have a strong enough command of Latin to be writing encyclopaedia articles on the internet about Latin phrases.
65.95.229.201 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)mgraves 65.95.229.201 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
It just occurred to me that the author may possibly have got the idea that "memento mori" and "carpe diem" are "related" from watching that Robin Williams movie from about ten years ago. I can't see any other possible source for that misconception.
Has the author been offering insight and commentary on other Latin phrases on Wikipedia?
65.95.229.201 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)mgraves 65.95.229.201 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I found the phrase "memento mori" quoted several times in the opening sequence of the Playstation 2 video game Shin Megami Tensei : Persona 3
Perhaps this should be added under modern usage?
Zer0phusi0n 21:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually it's not just the opening sequence, it is the motif of the whole game itself. 77.241.122.248 ( talk) 08:10, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
How do you pronounce 'memento mori'?
Thanks, DK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.98.58.254 ( talk) 14:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Just a personal appeal to Wikipedians to please desist from posting useless and uninteresting trivia. The Modern Usage section of this entry is a great example of how the Wikipedia ideal is being tarnished beyond redemption through the inclusion of such irrelevent nonsense. It weakens Wikipedia enormously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.16.85.59 ( talk) 21:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
The 1970 movie Patton, while it does not use the phrase exactly, does mention it at the very end of the movie. Banjodog ( talk) 02:40, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
The image Image:Olivier Skull.JPG is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:41, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
"Memento mori" may not be translated as "Remember that you are mortal," "Remember you will die," "Remember that you must die," or "Remember your death." It straight up means "Remember you will die." It is a future imperative and a present infinitive in indirect statement, I don't see any other way to interpret this. "Remember that you are mortal" is simply a rephrasing, not a translation, and "Remember that you must die" and "Remember your death" are grammatically incorrect, besides not making a whole lot of sense. Why not just list the single literal translation, which also happens to be by far the neatest and shortest? 76.190.157.141 ( talk) 03:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Actually, shouldn't it be "Remember you shall die" in order to note that it's imperative, rather than you 'will' which doesn't really have that connotation in the 2nd person?
76.247.185.191 (
talk) 20:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
changed the "modern literature" heading to "modern instances" and included Jason Rohrer's game Passage, as it is based on memento mori concept. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.5.224.118 ( talk) 14:22, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I've removed the Modern Instances section on account of it being unrelated to the article. It's plainly stated in the lede that this article is about an artistic genre. The examples in Modern Instances, though they include the phrase "memento mori", are not related to the genre and hence belong on the disambig page. The film Memento, and the short story on which it's based, does not exist to remind one about the inevitability of death, nor are the video games works of art with this purpose. There is a perfectly good disambiguation page for these primarily unrelated uses of the term Memento mori. -- JayHenry ( talk) 21:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
The article says "Standing behind the victorious general was his slave, who was tasked to remind the general that, though his highness was at his peak today, tomorrow he could fall or be more likely brought down.".I do not think this is a correct interpretation. During a triumph, a Roman general was dressed with the attributes of Capitoline Jupiter. The slave was there to remind him of his mortality in order to avoid the guilt of believing that one was really the god, and the punishment metted out by the god. The modern meaning could be "Even being as you are, greater than any man, you are not a god" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.117.157.128 ( talk) 21:56, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the description beneath the image of the The Braque Family Triptych, which stated that the panel "shows the skull of the patron displayed in the inner panels. The bones rest on a brick, a symbol of his former industry and achievement." I bleieve this statement represents Original Research, falsely attributed to the following source:
As the reader can see, there is no mention of the skull as being that of the patron nor of the symbolism of the brick. I found several other descriptions of the Braque Triptych, which include:
I have removed the original caption and replaced it with a more neutral caption, in line with a reference from a verifiable source. Boneyard90 ( talk) 15:44, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
The article states:
It is further possible that the servant may have instead advised, "Respice post te! Hominem te esse memento! Memento mori!": "Look behind you! Remember that you are but a man! Remember that you'll die!", as noted by Tertullian in his Apologeticus.
But it's not clear to me what this is trying to say - the quote used in the versions of the Apologeticus I have found ( [2], [3]) says only "Respice post te! Hominem te memento!", or "Look behind thee; remember thou art but a man.", with no mention of "Memento mori". Is there any source for the extended quote? -- David Edgar ( talk) 11:36, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
on this strong focus on death in much of Western culture? Be illuminating. 74.60.161.158 ( talk) 17:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to note the The Haunted Mansion-themed merchandise store at the Walt Disney World Resort as a use of the phrase in popular culture? See the Disney blog. Trilotat ( talk) 02:15, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
Aren't broken lute (musical instrument) strings in paintings also a memento mori? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 16:24, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I am new to this, so please excuse me for being a newbie. Rather than making a feeble attempt at editing the article I wanted to know if maybe a pop culture reference section could be added. Memento Mori is also used in the popular video game Dead by Daylight and I happened upon this page when looking up something about that game. I did not realize that this concept appeared in so many different contexts. A brief explanation of the Dead by Daylight Moment Moris can be found on the game's official wiki. [1]
108.50.213.81 ( talk) 21:05, 28 May 2021 (UTC) Arcadio
Think it fine to have Christianity in lead, if others really think it's better. It just does not go with the introductory part of that sentence, which says "The concept has its roots in the philosophers of
" ..., though. I was under the impression this sentence is discussing the origins of the concept. Christianity, for sure, has had a very important role in its development, but I don't think even the most enthusiastic Doctor of the Church would describe it as it the "root" of the concept. Another form of words might be better if others are keen to include Christianity in lead. I would think at least a mention of Judaism needs to be included, in that case, also: If we are "summarising" what the article says - and that would be an important phase that is skipped over, as well as the 600+ yrs mentioned in my ES, in reply to
Johnbod's question: what is exactly is there in between 'classical antiquity' and 'Christianity' that is skipped over?
I would like to note that the edit that put Christianity into lead occurred 19 Sep (as "Christianaty") (and no ES given, which is what attracted my attention), so it's not like I introduced a radical departure, with my reversion. AukusRuckus ( talk) 03:24, 15 October 2021 (UTC) 03:22, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm intrigued. What are your dates for that? Johnbod ( talk) 03:02, 15 October 2021 (UTC)]
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Memento mori article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 April 2019 and 5 June 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Roysius.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:51, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The caption of one of the images of this article " The outer panels of Rogier van der Weyden's Braque Triptych shows the skull of the patron displayed in the inner panels. The bones rest on a brick, a symbol of his former industry and achievement.[1] " is in contradiction to the text of page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Braque_Triptych which says of the same item " Few analyses venture to theorize the symbolism of the fragment of stone. As the skull may represent Adam, it has been suggested that the stone represents a piece of Golgotha.[1] Whatever was intended by van der Weyden or his patrons, it may not have been symbolically relevant to the Braque family, as they were well-established as advisers and financiers to the House of Valois.[1] " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.149.188.121 ( talk) 13:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Stop reverting the translations. The translations are incorrect. They are interpretations, not translations, and it is not the place of wikipedia to interpret. It translates directly as "Remember you shall die." 76.247.185.191 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:03, 25 May 2009 (UTC).
I've removed the See Also for Death poem since Memento mori is about death, whereas a death poem is a poem written just before one's death, but is not about death. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 15:55, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Tertullianus is quoted as writing: "Respice post te! Hominem te esse memento!" That's a mistake (see here. Should be: "respice post te! Hominem te memento!"
192.115.133.141 11:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes. It is. Renee Neu Watkins, recent translator of Bartolomeo Scala Literary Essays and Letters (working title), HUP (forthcoming) http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/25/t/001162.html
a disambiguation page is needed for Memento Mori. Spearhead 22:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
There is a serious error concerning the Horace quotation. The poem is on the victory at Actium and has nothing to do with the afterlife. The rejoicing is due to Octavian's victory over Anthony.
this page needs some sub headings, and also a mention of The streets' song named Memento Mori
"The genre was little used in classical antiquity; there, the chief thrust of memento mori was the theme of carpe diem, or "seize the day." This carries echoes of the admonishment to "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die", the language of which originates in Isaiah 22:13: "Eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!" ( New American Bible translation). The thought appears elsewhere in Roman literature: Horace's Odes include the well known line Nunc est bibendum, nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus. (Now is the time to drink, now the time to dance footloose upon the earth.) Horace goes on to explain that now is the time because there will be no drinking or dancing in the afterlife, a classic example of the carpe diem theme."
Comment: The previous sentence is incorrect as to the context of "nunc est bibendum." This is the start of Horace Odes 1.37, where the cause for celebration is NOT one's own impending mortality, but rather the death of Cleopatra. cf. [ [1]], next-to-last poem on the page. Closer to the author's intent is Horace's famous "carpe diem" in Odes 1.11, where the point is not that there is no celebration in the afterlife (a thought that strikes me as more from the Psalms than from Horace) but rather that life should be enjoyed before it ends. The distinction is subtle but important, as Horace makes no claims here about the nature of the afterlife. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.242.22.194 ( talk • contribs).
The article contains this sentence: "The genre was little used in classical antiquity; there, the chief thrust of memento mori was the theme of carpe diem, or 'seize the day.'"
The sentence seems to conflate the attitudes of memento mori and carpe diem, whereas they are actually the obverse of one another. The former is a call to humility (in keeping with its supposed origin in the Roman triumph), whereas the latter is a call to enjoy life (as the context of Horace's ode makes clear).
The article would be clearer if the whole paragraph about carpe diem were replaced with a link to the carpe diem article, saying something like "Compare carpe diem." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.64.31.26 ( talk) 23:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
A phrase that I relate to "memento mori" is "sic transit gloria mundi" (as best as I can remember how to spell it).
Is there logical merit to mentioning this phrase also?
Is there historical merit?
1Fishmael 20:36, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
"In ancient Rome, the phrase is said to have been used . . ."
Whenever I come across phrases like "is said to be", "was said to", "it is said that . . " etc. in one of my students' essays, a huge red flag goes up in my mind (and I pull a huge red pen out of my pocket). It is a sure signal that the person wishes to maintain that something is a fact, believes he or she might have read it (um, once) (um, somewhere) (um, I think) (um, in a book . . . or something), but has absolutely no evidence or citation to back it up. Therefore, he or she attributes it to an anonymous source (which may or may not exist) by putting it in the passive voice and hoping that the reader won't notice. Hmm, problem solved.
"The phrase was otherwise referred to in the art of classical antiquity . . ."
Again, where is this "phrase" "referred to"? Of course the Latin verb "morior" (to die) appears in Latin literature and of course they write about death and mortality and the transience of human life. That doesn't constitute a reference. The theme is certainly present in pre-Christian Roman literature, as well as in the Book of Ecclesiastes, as well as in Greek literature. However, the phrase itself does not appear until the late Middle Ages.
The phrase "carpe diem" is not "related to" the phrase "memento mori". They mean completely different things, and although both themes are important in mediaeval, Renaissance, and Baroque art and literature, their implications are virtually the opposite of one another.
There are several passages in this article that make me suspect that the author does not have a strong enough command of Latin to be writing encyclopaedia articles on the internet about Latin phrases.
65.95.229.201 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)mgraves 65.95.229.201 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
It just occurred to me that the author may possibly have got the idea that "memento mori" and "carpe diem" are "related" from watching that Robin Williams movie from about ten years ago. I can't see any other possible source for that misconception.
Has the author been offering insight and commentary on other Latin phrases on Wikipedia?
65.95.229.201 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)mgraves 65.95.229.201 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I found the phrase "memento mori" quoted several times in the opening sequence of the Playstation 2 video game Shin Megami Tensei : Persona 3
Perhaps this should be added under modern usage?
Zer0phusi0n 21:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually it's not just the opening sequence, it is the motif of the whole game itself. 77.241.122.248 ( talk) 08:10, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
How do you pronounce 'memento mori'?
Thanks, DK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.98.58.254 ( talk) 14:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Just a personal appeal to Wikipedians to please desist from posting useless and uninteresting trivia. The Modern Usage section of this entry is a great example of how the Wikipedia ideal is being tarnished beyond redemption through the inclusion of such irrelevent nonsense. It weakens Wikipedia enormously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.16.85.59 ( talk) 21:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
The 1970 movie Patton, while it does not use the phrase exactly, does mention it at the very end of the movie. Banjodog ( talk) 02:40, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
The image Image:Olivier Skull.JPG is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:41, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
"Memento mori" may not be translated as "Remember that you are mortal," "Remember you will die," "Remember that you must die," or "Remember your death." It straight up means "Remember you will die." It is a future imperative and a present infinitive in indirect statement, I don't see any other way to interpret this. "Remember that you are mortal" is simply a rephrasing, not a translation, and "Remember that you must die" and "Remember your death" are grammatically incorrect, besides not making a whole lot of sense. Why not just list the single literal translation, which also happens to be by far the neatest and shortest? 76.190.157.141 ( talk) 03:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Actually, shouldn't it be "Remember you shall die" in order to note that it's imperative, rather than you 'will' which doesn't really have that connotation in the 2nd person?
76.247.185.191 (
talk) 20:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
changed the "modern literature" heading to "modern instances" and included Jason Rohrer's game Passage, as it is based on memento mori concept. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.5.224.118 ( talk) 14:22, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I've removed the Modern Instances section on account of it being unrelated to the article. It's plainly stated in the lede that this article is about an artistic genre. The examples in Modern Instances, though they include the phrase "memento mori", are not related to the genre and hence belong on the disambig page. The film Memento, and the short story on which it's based, does not exist to remind one about the inevitability of death, nor are the video games works of art with this purpose. There is a perfectly good disambiguation page for these primarily unrelated uses of the term Memento mori. -- JayHenry ( talk) 21:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
The article says "Standing behind the victorious general was his slave, who was tasked to remind the general that, though his highness was at his peak today, tomorrow he could fall or be more likely brought down.".I do not think this is a correct interpretation. During a triumph, a Roman general was dressed with the attributes of Capitoline Jupiter. The slave was there to remind him of his mortality in order to avoid the guilt of believing that one was really the god, and the punishment metted out by the god. The modern meaning could be "Even being as you are, greater than any man, you are not a god" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.117.157.128 ( talk) 21:56, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the description beneath the image of the The Braque Family Triptych, which stated that the panel "shows the skull of the patron displayed in the inner panels. The bones rest on a brick, a symbol of his former industry and achievement." I bleieve this statement represents Original Research, falsely attributed to the following source:
As the reader can see, there is no mention of the skull as being that of the patron nor of the symbolism of the brick. I found several other descriptions of the Braque Triptych, which include:
I have removed the original caption and replaced it with a more neutral caption, in line with a reference from a verifiable source. Boneyard90 ( talk) 15:44, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
The article states:
It is further possible that the servant may have instead advised, "Respice post te! Hominem te esse memento! Memento mori!": "Look behind you! Remember that you are but a man! Remember that you'll die!", as noted by Tertullian in his Apologeticus.
But it's not clear to me what this is trying to say - the quote used in the versions of the Apologeticus I have found ( [2], [3]) says only "Respice post te! Hominem te memento!", or "Look behind thee; remember thou art but a man.", with no mention of "Memento mori". Is there any source for the extended quote? -- David Edgar ( talk) 11:36, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
on this strong focus on death in much of Western culture? Be illuminating. 74.60.161.158 ( talk) 17:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to note the The Haunted Mansion-themed merchandise store at the Walt Disney World Resort as a use of the phrase in popular culture? See the Disney blog. Trilotat ( talk) 02:15, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
Aren't broken lute (musical instrument) strings in paintings also a memento mori? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 16:24, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I am new to this, so please excuse me for being a newbie. Rather than making a feeble attempt at editing the article I wanted to know if maybe a pop culture reference section could be added. Memento Mori is also used in the popular video game Dead by Daylight and I happened upon this page when looking up something about that game. I did not realize that this concept appeared in so many different contexts. A brief explanation of the Dead by Daylight Moment Moris can be found on the game's official wiki. [1]
108.50.213.81 ( talk) 21:05, 28 May 2021 (UTC) Arcadio
Think it fine to have Christianity in lead, if others really think it's better. It just does not go with the introductory part of that sentence, which says "The concept has its roots in the philosophers of
" ..., though. I was under the impression this sentence is discussing the origins of the concept. Christianity, for sure, has had a very important role in its development, but I don't think even the most enthusiastic Doctor of the Church would describe it as it the "root" of the concept. Another form of words might be better if others are keen to include Christianity in lead. I would think at least a mention of Judaism needs to be included, in that case, also: If we are "summarising" what the article says - and that would be an important phase that is skipped over, as well as the 600+ yrs mentioned in my ES, in reply to
Johnbod's question: what is exactly is there in between 'classical antiquity' and 'Christianity' that is skipped over?
I would like to note that the edit that put Christianity into lead occurred 19 Sep (as "Christianaty") (and no ES given, which is what attracted my attention), so it's not like I introduced a radical departure, with my reversion. AukusRuckus ( talk) 03:24, 15 October 2021 (UTC) 03:22, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm intrigued. What are your dates for that? Johnbod ( talk) 03:02, 15 October 2021 (UTC)]