Added information on clinical psychology background. This article still contains incorrect and misleading information and is incomplete in many respects, but not to worry, I'm back from vacation and ready to work on it. Due to the contentious nature of this article in the past, I will make each edit individually so we can discuss them in a clear and organized fashion.-- Axiomatica 21:28, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Moved this article to News since it is a news article. -- Axiomatica 21:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1) Have taken several background items (academic background, etc) out of the lead paragraph and moved into an infobox.
2) Have expanded the descriptors in the first sentence. These are all based on cited descriptions of Farley from published sources, including an article written by Farley herself. Specifically:
3) Added citation of newspaper article concerning her opposition to sex-worker rights groups, added specifically COYOTE, since this is a notable group and specifically mentioned in the newspaper article. ("Ex-prostitutes' quilt honors slain women" by Associated Press, Las Vegas Review-Journal, April 13, 1994, p 14.)
4) In the last week, I have also added several sentences concerning her report on Nevada brothels. ("Outlaw industry, ex-prostitutes say" by Lynnette Curtis, Las Vegas Review-Journal, September 6, 2007; "Panel: Brothels aid sex trafficking" by Mark Waite, Pahrump Valley Times, September 7, 2007.)
5) Also, linked a number of articles by or about Farley to "external links". At least some of this should eventually be incorporated into the article at some point. Iamcuriousblue 03:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
The following sentence in the intro paragraph did not make sense, trafficking is not an "industry" people "engage" in. It is also lacking the fact that Farley is also well known for her research on sexual violence.
Farley is best known for her studies of the effects of prostitution and trafficking on those engaged in those industries.
I changed it to
Farley is best known for her studies of the effects of prostitution, trafficking, and sexual violence.-- Axiomatica 20:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
1) Removed the adjective "wholesale" in the phrase "wholesale decriminalization", viewing the word as "editorializing". How this word is "editorializing" is simply beyond me – the adjective is there to clarify and accurately represent Melissa Farley's views on the subject. She has stated that she wants prostitution decriminalized for prostitutes, but not decriminalized for pimps and buyers. This distinguishes her views both from advocates of full decriminalization and from proponents of full criminalization. In any event, I have changed the adjective from "wholesale" to "across-the-board" in the interest of clarity.
2) Clearer description of Weitzer's views are a good idea (and actually were in an earlier version of the article before another editor removed it, probably viewing the statement as prejudicial). However a parenthetical statement that reads "most notably by sociologist Ronald Weitzer whose "two track" approach favors decriminalizing or tolerating indoor prostitution which he sees as imposing no harm on the community and who terms efforts to end prostitution a 'moral crusade'" is no only overly verbose, but is more than a little POV and rather petulant in tone, not to mention very poor writing when used as a parenthetical remark. Have changed it to "a proponent of the full decriminalization of indoor prostitution", a succinct representation of his views. There is a direct link to the article on Weitzer that gives a more detailed exposition of his views, in any event.
3) For purposes of citing sources: " Articles and posts on Wikipedia or other open wikis should never be used as third-party sources."
4) Reference to Farley as a "radical feminist" by critics. Weitzer specifically refers to Farley's "radical feminist" in his critique "Flawed Theory and Method in Studies of Prostitution" and Tracy Quan has also been critical of Farley's "extreme form of feminism". These are the published words of her critics and this article simply reports them. (Which is not to say they are inaccurate – that Farley falls into the radical feminist camp of Andrea Dworkin, Nikki Craft, etc, is abundantly clear from her writings, even if she does not use the term as a self-descriptor.) The addition "but do not define this term" simply represents an unreferenced and probably novel counter-critique by User:Ninorc, and therefore violates Wikipedia rules against original research and using Wikipedia as a soapbox.
I'm open to discussion of these edits and other changes to this article. However, I would suggest to User:Ninorc that he or she perhaps familiarize themselves a bit more with Wikipedia's rules and guidelines, especially concerning referencing, verifiable sources, and what constitutes original research. Iamcuriousblue 06:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
As the extraordinarily long discussion on this page shows, multiple people have come into this bio to try to remove Mr. Werner's bias from this page. Each time this happens, Mr. Werner thoroughly obliterates the person's work, adopts a weirdly superior tone, sends threatening messages, and eventually gets openly hostile in the discussion.
The time has come for your to realize Mr. Werner (iamcuriousblue) that the purpose of a bio entry in an encyclopedia is to describe the life and work of the subject. You seem to think the purpose of this bio is to elevate some obscure sociologist who doesn't like Farley's work, in an attempt to help him in building a career promoting porn and prostitution.
Weitzer and Werner's opinions about Farley's work are not the subject of this bio. They certainly do belong in a criticism section. But Mr. Werner has spent hours trying to frame each and every sentence of this bio in his and Mr. Weitzer's terminology.
It took literally months of debate to get the word "radical" dropped from the subject's description. Mr. Werner has fought tooth and nail to keep things in here that simply don't belong. He purports to know Farley's opinion about "sex work", but she doesn't even use the term and clearly states why she doesn't use the term, so how does Mr. Werner psychically know her professional opinion about the term? He has written she is against sex worker rights when she has a long history of working WITH the people Werner would call sex workers.
The source of Mr. Werner's animosity toward Farley remains a mystery to me, but it is clear that he sees this bio entry as his own little kingdom for spinning decades of work by a researcher to fit his own political agenda.
Please stop vandalizing this entry, Mr. Werner. We should be able to make this a simple, factual, bio entry. You are free to create other bio entries for Weitzer and yourself to go on at length about your views on the subject of prostitution. But this entry is not the appropriate place to carry out your crusade.-- Axiomatica 06:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
The version of this article posted by User:Ninorc at 19 September 2007 is the most simple and neutral version of this article and so I have reverted to it. It deletes the factually incorrect statements and more accurately reflects the subject of this entry, Melissa Farley.
I would suggest that Peter Werner consider using another entry, possibly something like "Prostitution research" or "Prostitution research controversies" to lay out the arguments about prostitution research in general. However, this is a bio entry and not a debate on prostitution, so let's just stick to the facts about the subject here with links to other entries about the topics and issues.-- Axiomatica 08:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)-- Axiomatica 08:08, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Per a request filed at requests for page protection, this page has been protected from editing until unsolved issues are resolved. Please try and keep the conversation civil, and let's find a clear solution everyone can agree one. Jmlk 1 7 09:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you administrators for your rapid response to my request to protect this page until we can workout some kind of solution. Would it be possible to roll it back past Werners last revision of a few minutes ago to this version which is the most simple and neutral version without all the contentious material in it.
Please roll back to version of 07:58, 27 September 2007, http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Melissa_Farley&oldid=160650614
Thank you. -- Axiomatica 10:16, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Whenever a page is protected, someone thinks it is the wrong version. For that reason, we generally do not roll back protected pages to previous versions as is requested here. A better use of the time that the page is protected is to discuss the disagreements without having to worry about your edits being reverted. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 14:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
In these cases in which two editors are unable to find common ground, the best course of action is to pursue our dispute resolution process. Otherwise, protecting the article will be followed by editor's losing their editing privileges for edit-warring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jossi ( talk • contribs) 15:40, 27 September 2007
I am pleased to see that the Wikipedia page providing a professional biography of Melissa Farley has been placed under protection from further editing and will, I presume, be examined for evidence of prejudicial editing. It seems to me regrettable but more than fair to the author of such editing that his version is allowed to prevail until this process is completed.
I would like to suggest that Wikipedia arbiters of this dispute can find an acceptable model of unbiased and orderly presentation of the views and publications of a person whose views are highly controversial by looking at the Wikipedia profile of Ronald Weitzer. Despite the fact that many people disagree strongly with Weitzer's POV toward prostitution, no one has edited Weitzer's page to dispute his views or revise his language to suit their own opinions. Instead, the reader can consult this biography for a straightforward presentation of Weitzer's work. As shown in the following summary example, the page includes a "Debates" section which at present is devoted to a published exchange between Weitzer and Melissa Farley. The only "External link" is to Farley's Wikipedia page, presumably to direct the reader to quotations from Weitzer that criticize Farley's work.
Wikipedia entry for Ronald Weitzer: "Ronald Weitzer is a sociologist specializing in criminology and a professor at George Washington University, known for his publications on police-minority relations and on the sex industry. Contents [hide]
1 Research and views
2 Major publications
2.1 Books
2.2 Journal and anthology articles
3 References
4 See also
5 External links
5.1 By Weitzer
5.2 Debates between Ronald Weitzer and others"
Notice, for example, that no one has altered the term "sex industry" to "commercial sexual exploitation," a term that Weitzer does not use. If Weitzer's work is allowed to speak to the public on its own terms, why should anything less than the same rigorous standard be applied to Farley's work? 141.156.170.20 20:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I think that most of these links are useful and directly relevant to the subject of the article. However, I agree that the list of links has grown to be quite long and the linkfarm tag is there with some justification.
My perspective is that a lot of this material simply needs to be incorporated into the article itself, which is often what is treated as the solution to what to do with a relevant but excessive number of external links. Unfortunately, with such an absolute dispute over whether critical perspectives are allowed and what aspects of Farley's biography are admissible, it is very difficult to proceed with this. Iamcuriousblue 17:13, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I want to outline the dispute here. This is the version I last edited and is the version I think should be built on further. This is the version User:Ninorc and User:Axiomatica wish to use as the basis. While there are quite a few differences, the edit war basically boils down to the three sections that are in question, sections that Axiomatica and Ninorc continue to erase entirely:
(Note that all three of these sections are thoroughly cited and referenced – please check the article itself for citations.)
Also at issue is whether the term " sex work" is allowed to be used at all in the article. Iamcuriousblue 18:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Axiomatica continues to mischaracterize my edits as amounting to "Farley's work should be defined by her critics". In fact, we seem to agree on keeping much of the same core content that simply explains Farley's research and views. (With the exception of disputed section 3, above, which is core biographical material Axiomatica and Ninorc don't seem to want included either, for whatever reason.) My position is simply that, as per WP:NPOV and WP:CONTROVERSY, when a subject holds controversial views or has taken controversial research or actions, the views of critics of those views or that research be included. Axiomatica seems to take the novel view that WP:BLP somehow carves out a broad exception to WP:NPOV and that critical views are not to be included at all in biographical articles, even where such articles state the subjects controversial views. That this is clearly not the case, as a simple perusal of articles on George Galloway, Ronald Reagan, or Bjørn Lomborg will quickly show. (It has also been suggested by Axiomatica that if there are to be criticisms at all, they must go in a separate "Criticisms" section. This is clearly not the best practices of Wikipedia, as Wikipedia:Criticism clearly states. I have kept criticism of her research in her section on "Research" and criticism of her views in the section on "Activism and views", as per these best practices. Check the article on Ronald Reagan for an example of an article where such best practices concerning criticism have been implemented.)
Apparently, the fact that there are differences of opinion and interpretation between Farley and other academic experts on prostitution and the sex industry, among them Ronald Weitzer, Barbara Brents, and Kate Hausbeck, is information Axiomatica and Ninorc simply want stifled wholesale and not mentioned in any way. Ditto with the fact that there's a large sex workers' rights movement that also does not agree with Farley's views.
My answer to the contention that airing of such views may give undue weight to the voice of her critics, is first, these views are not the views of some tiny insignificant minority, but substantial enough criticisms to be aired in news sources and academic journal debates involving Farley. And second, if points of criticism are proportionately taking up too much of the article in its present form, to simply expand the sections describing the views, and particularly, the research of Melissa Farley, something I have always advocated.
As per the wording on "sex work", this seems to be a political dispute. Farley has stated that she supports the abolition of stripping and pornography modeling, which she sees as simply different phases of prostitution. The generally accepted term for prostitution, stripping, porn work, etc in general is "sex work". Farley, however, is strongly opposed to the term "sex work" itself, a view apparently shared by Axiomatica and Nonorc, making this point contentious as well.
I have been going around and around about this for 4 months with Axiomatica, and have been hearing that editor make the same tendentious arguments over and over, and basically sticking to the same wrong-headed argument that biographical articles should not at all include the views of critics. I would like to hear some other views on how the above-mentioned criticisms should be fairly addressed in the context of a Wikipedia biographical article. Iamcuriousblue 18:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
User Iamcuriousblue has written this in the Farley bio article and refuses to let anyone edit it.
This is simply not true. Farley very specifically does not use the term "sex work" and has written about why. It is a misleading and unscientific term that is defined very differently by different people. But Iamcuriousblue DOES use the term and seems to insist that everyone else use it too. This bio entry is not the place for a debate about the word "sex work". The fact is that Farley is a proponent of the abolitionist view of prostitution. The sentence should simply say that. This is an example of something that should be quite easy to reach agreement on, but apparently no one but Mr. Werner is allowed to edit this article. -- Axiomatica 19:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Why don't you ask for a
third opinion?
≈ jossi ≈
(talk)
04:02, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
As a note, we cannot say ""Farley is a leading proponent of xxxx" unless that claim is made in a published third party source. See WP:NOR. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
This keeps going back and forth. Weitzer is mentioned as a notable critic of Farley, something I feel belongs in the article based on a noteworthy debate between the two in the journal Violence Against Women. User:Ninorc adds the following language:
For brevity and NPOV reasons, I ( User:Iamcuriousblue) shortened this to:
Now User:68.34.57.97, an editor who has made a number of edits to the articles Ronald Weitzer, Melissa Farley, and Prostitution in Nevada articles, removed this information so it reads as follows:
For the time being, I'm going to stay out of the debate as to whether they exposition of Weitzer's POV should be there or whether it is unduly prejudicial, though I think this is one of several issues that will need to be settled in the Mediation Committee case (linked to at the top of this page). I invite User:68.34.57.97 to add themselves as an additional party to the Mediation Committee case if they wish to participate.
My view is simply that Weitzer and his criticisms need to be mentioned in the section where Farley's research is discussed, and that if Weitzer's views are to be introduced, then long-winded and prejudicial text (like the version introduced by Ninorc, above) should be avoided. Otherwise, I leave it open how Weitzer is to be introduced and/or contextualized. Iamcuriousblue 02:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I notice that her most recent book on Nevada seems to keep disappearing and reappearing. Whatever one thinks about the merits of this work (and it has been heavily criticised - most notably by the Sociology Department at U Nevada Las Vegas) - it is a major work in the sense that it has a large influence on the debate over legal prostitution in Nevada. Mgoodyear 03:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
This article currently have a lot of links. I would like to see some of them plowed back into the article text as refs, even if this requires new assertions be made in the text.-- Keepthestub 22:40, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Added information on clinical psychology background. This article still contains incorrect and misleading information and is incomplete in many respects, but not to worry, I'm back from vacation and ready to work on it. Due to the contentious nature of this article in the past, I will make each edit individually so we can discuss them in a clear and organized fashion.-- Axiomatica 21:28, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Moved this article to News since it is a news article. -- Axiomatica 21:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1) Have taken several background items (academic background, etc) out of the lead paragraph and moved into an infobox.
2) Have expanded the descriptors in the first sentence. These are all based on cited descriptions of Farley from published sources, including an article written by Farley herself. Specifically:
3) Added citation of newspaper article concerning her opposition to sex-worker rights groups, added specifically COYOTE, since this is a notable group and specifically mentioned in the newspaper article. ("Ex-prostitutes' quilt honors slain women" by Associated Press, Las Vegas Review-Journal, April 13, 1994, p 14.)
4) In the last week, I have also added several sentences concerning her report on Nevada brothels. ("Outlaw industry, ex-prostitutes say" by Lynnette Curtis, Las Vegas Review-Journal, September 6, 2007; "Panel: Brothels aid sex trafficking" by Mark Waite, Pahrump Valley Times, September 7, 2007.)
5) Also, linked a number of articles by or about Farley to "external links". At least some of this should eventually be incorporated into the article at some point. Iamcuriousblue 03:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
The following sentence in the intro paragraph did not make sense, trafficking is not an "industry" people "engage" in. It is also lacking the fact that Farley is also well known for her research on sexual violence.
Farley is best known for her studies of the effects of prostitution and trafficking on those engaged in those industries.
I changed it to
Farley is best known for her studies of the effects of prostitution, trafficking, and sexual violence.-- Axiomatica 20:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
1) Removed the adjective "wholesale" in the phrase "wholesale decriminalization", viewing the word as "editorializing". How this word is "editorializing" is simply beyond me – the adjective is there to clarify and accurately represent Melissa Farley's views on the subject. She has stated that she wants prostitution decriminalized for prostitutes, but not decriminalized for pimps and buyers. This distinguishes her views both from advocates of full decriminalization and from proponents of full criminalization. In any event, I have changed the adjective from "wholesale" to "across-the-board" in the interest of clarity.
2) Clearer description of Weitzer's views are a good idea (and actually were in an earlier version of the article before another editor removed it, probably viewing the statement as prejudicial). However a parenthetical statement that reads "most notably by sociologist Ronald Weitzer whose "two track" approach favors decriminalizing or tolerating indoor prostitution which he sees as imposing no harm on the community and who terms efforts to end prostitution a 'moral crusade'" is no only overly verbose, but is more than a little POV and rather petulant in tone, not to mention very poor writing when used as a parenthetical remark. Have changed it to "a proponent of the full decriminalization of indoor prostitution", a succinct representation of his views. There is a direct link to the article on Weitzer that gives a more detailed exposition of his views, in any event.
3) For purposes of citing sources: " Articles and posts on Wikipedia or other open wikis should never be used as third-party sources."
4) Reference to Farley as a "radical feminist" by critics. Weitzer specifically refers to Farley's "radical feminist" in his critique "Flawed Theory and Method in Studies of Prostitution" and Tracy Quan has also been critical of Farley's "extreme form of feminism". These are the published words of her critics and this article simply reports them. (Which is not to say they are inaccurate – that Farley falls into the radical feminist camp of Andrea Dworkin, Nikki Craft, etc, is abundantly clear from her writings, even if she does not use the term as a self-descriptor.) The addition "but do not define this term" simply represents an unreferenced and probably novel counter-critique by User:Ninorc, and therefore violates Wikipedia rules against original research and using Wikipedia as a soapbox.
I'm open to discussion of these edits and other changes to this article. However, I would suggest to User:Ninorc that he or she perhaps familiarize themselves a bit more with Wikipedia's rules and guidelines, especially concerning referencing, verifiable sources, and what constitutes original research. Iamcuriousblue 06:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
As the extraordinarily long discussion on this page shows, multiple people have come into this bio to try to remove Mr. Werner's bias from this page. Each time this happens, Mr. Werner thoroughly obliterates the person's work, adopts a weirdly superior tone, sends threatening messages, and eventually gets openly hostile in the discussion.
The time has come for your to realize Mr. Werner (iamcuriousblue) that the purpose of a bio entry in an encyclopedia is to describe the life and work of the subject. You seem to think the purpose of this bio is to elevate some obscure sociologist who doesn't like Farley's work, in an attempt to help him in building a career promoting porn and prostitution.
Weitzer and Werner's opinions about Farley's work are not the subject of this bio. They certainly do belong in a criticism section. But Mr. Werner has spent hours trying to frame each and every sentence of this bio in his and Mr. Weitzer's terminology.
It took literally months of debate to get the word "radical" dropped from the subject's description. Mr. Werner has fought tooth and nail to keep things in here that simply don't belong. He purports to know Farley's opinion about "sex work", but she doesn't even use the term and clearly states why she doesn't use the term, so how does Mr. Werner psychically know her professional opinion about the term? He has written she is against sex worker rights when she has a long history of working WITH the people Werner would call sex workers.
The source of Mr. Werner's animosity toward Farley remains a mystery to me, but it is clear that he sees this bio entry as his own little kingdom for spinning decades of work by a researcher to fit his own political agenda.
Please stop vandalizing this entry, Mr. Werner. We should be able to make this a simple, factual, bio entry. You are free to create other bio entries for Weitzer and yourself to go on at length about your views on the subject of prostitution. But this entry is not the appropriate place to carry out your crusade.-- Axiomatica 06:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
The version of this article posted by User:Ninorc at 19 September 2007 is the most simple and neutral version of this article and so I have reverted to it. It deletes the factually incorrect statements and more accurately reflects the subject of this entry, Melissa Farley.
I would suggest that Peter Werner consider using another entry, possibly something like "Prostitution research" or "Prostitution research controversies" to lay out the arguments about prostitution research in general. However, this is a bio entry and not a debate on prostitution, so let's just stick to the facts about the subject here with links to other entries about the topics and issues.-- Axiomatica 08:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)-- Axiomatica 08:08, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Per a request filed at requests for page protection, this page has been protected from editing until unsolved issues are resolved. Please try and keep the conversation civil, and let's find a clear solution everyone can agree one. Jmlk 1 7 09:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you administrators for your rapid response to my request to protect this page until we can workout some kind of solution. Would it be possible to roll it back past Werners last revision of a few minutes ago to this version which is the most simple and neutral version without all the contentious material in it.
Please roll back to version of 07:58, 27 September 2007, http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Melissa_Farley&oldid=160650614
Thank you. -- Axiomatica 10:16, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Whenever a page is protected, someone thinks it is the wrong version. For that reason, we generally do not roll back protected pages to previous versions as is requested here. A better use of the time that the page is protected is to discuss the disagreements without having to worry about your edits being reverted. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 14:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
In these cases in which two editors are unable to find common ground, the best course of action is to pursue our dispute resolution process. Otherwise, protecting the article will be followed by editor's losing their editing privileges for edit-warring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jossi ( talk • contribs) 15:40, 27 September 2007
I am pleased to see that the Wikipedia page providing a professional biography of Melissa Farley has been placed under protection from further editing and will, I presume, be examined for evidence of prejudicial editing. It seems to me regrettable but more than fair to the author of such editing that his version is allowed to prevail until this process is completed.
I would like to suggest that Wikipedia arbiters of this dispute can find an acceptable model of unbiased and orderly presentation of the views and publications of a person whose views are highly controversial by looking at the Wikipedia profile of Ronald Weitzer. Despite the fact that many people disagree strongly with Weitzer's POV toward prostitution, no one has edited Weitzer's page to dispute his views or revise his language to suit their own opinions. Instead, the reader can consult this biography for a straightforward presentation of Weitzer's work. As shown in the following summary example, the page includes a "Debates" section which at present is devoted to a published exchange between Weitzer and Melissa Farley. The only "External link" is to Farley's Wikipedia page, presumably to direct the reader to quotations from Weitzer that criticize Farley's work.
Wikipedia entry for Ronald Weitzer: "Ronald Weitzer is a sociologist specializing in criminology and a professor at George Washington University, known for his publications on police-minority relations and on the sex industry. Contents [hide]
1 Research and views
2 Major publications
2.1 Books
2.2 Journal and anthology articles
3 References
4 See also
5 External links
5.1 By Weitzer
5.2 Debates between Ronald Weitzer and others"
Notice, for example, that no one has altered the term "sex industry" to "commercial sexual exploitation," a term that Weitzer does not use. If Weitzer's work is allowed to speak to the public on its own terms, why should anything less than the same rigorous standard be applied to Farley's work? 141.156.170.20 20:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I think that most of these links are useful and directly relevant to the subject of the article. However, I agree that the list of links has grown to be quite long and the linkfarm tag is there with some justification.
My perspective is that a lot of this material simply needs to be incorporated into the article itself, which is often what is treated as the solution to what to do with a relevant but excessive number of external links. Unfortunately, with such an absolute dispute over whether critical perspectives are allowed and what aspects of Farley's biography are admissible, it is very difficult to proceed with this. Iamcuriousblue 17:13, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I want to outline the dispute here. This is the version I last edited and is the version I think should be built on further. This is the version User:Ninorc and User:Axiomatica wish to use as the basis. While there are quite a few differences, the edit war basically boils down to the three sections that are in question, sections that Axiomatica and Ninorc continue to erase entirely:
(Note that all three of these sections are thoroughly cited and referenced – please check the article itself for citations.)
Also at issue is whether the term " sex work" is allowed to be used at all in the article. Iamcuriousblue 18:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Axiomatica continues to mischaracterize my edits as amounting to "Farley's work should be defined by her critics". In fact, we seem to agree on keeping much of the same core content that simply explains Farley's research and views. (With the exception of disputed section 3, above, which is core biographical material Axiomatica and Ninorc don't seem to want included either, for whatever reason.) My position is simply that, as per WP:NPOV and WP:CONTROVERSY, when a subject holds controversial views or has taken controversial research or actions, the views of critics of those views or that research be included. Axiomatica seems to take the novel view that WP:BLP somehow carves out a broad exception to WP:NPOV and that critical views are not to be included at all in biographical articles, even where such articles state the subjects controversial views. That this is clearly not the case, as a simple perusal of articles on George Galloway, Ronald Reagan, or Bjørn Lomborg will quickly show. (It has also been suggested by Axiomatica that if there are to be criticisms at all, they must go in a separate "Criticisms" section. This is clearly not the best practices of Wikipedia, as Wikipedia:Criticism clearly states. I have kept criticism of her research in her section on "Research" and criticism of her views in the section on "Activism and views", as per these best practices. Check the article on Ronald Reagan for an example of an article where such best practices concerning criticism have been implemented.)
Apparently, the fact that there are differences of opinion and interpretation between Farley and other academic experts on prostitution and the sex industry, among them Ronald Weitzer, Barbara Brents, and Kate Hausbeck, is information Axiomatica and Ninorc simply want stifled wholesale and not mentioned in any way. Ditto with the fact that there's a large sex workers' rights movement that also does not agree with Farley's views.
My answer to the contention that airing of such views may give undue weight to the voice of her critics, is first, these views are not the views of some tiny insignificant minority, but substantial enough criticisms to be aired in news sources and academic journal debates involving Farley. And second, if points of criticism are proportionately taking up too much of the article in its present form, to simply expand the sections describing the views, and particularly, the research of Melissa Farley, something I have always advocated.
As per the wording on "sex work", this seems to be a political dispute. Farley has stated that she supports the abolition of stripping and pornography modeling, which she sees as simply different phases of prostitution. The generally accepted term for prostitution, stripping, porn work, etc in general is "sex work". Farley, however, is strongly opposed to the term "sex work" itself, a view apparently shared by Axiomatica and Nonorc, making this point contentious as well.
I have been going around and around about this for 4 months with Axiomatica, and have been hearing that editor make the same tendentious arguments over and over, and basically sticking to the same wrong-headed argument that biographical articles should not at all include the views of critics. I would like to hear some other views on how the above-mentioned criticisms should be fairly addressed in the context of a Wikipedia biographical article. Iamcuriousblue 18:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
User Iamcuriousblue has written this in the Farley bio article and refuses to let anyone edit it.
This is simply not true. Farley very specifically does not use the term "sex work" and has written about why. It is a misleading and unscientific term that is defined very differently by different people. But Iamcuriousblue DOES use the term and seems to insist that everyone else use it too. This bio entry is not the place for a debate about the word "sex work". The fact is that Farley is a proponent of the abolitionist view of prostitution. The sentence should simply say that. This is an example of something that should be quite easy to reach agreement on, but apparently no one but Mr. Werner is allowed to edit this article. -- Axiomatica 19:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Why don't you ask for a
third opinion?
≈ jossi ≈
(talk)
04:02, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
As a note, we cannot say ""Farley is a leading proponent of xxxx" unless that claim is made in a published third party source. See WP:NOR. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
This keeps going back and forth. Weitzer is mentioned as a notable critic of Farley, something I feel belongs in the article based on a noteworthy debate between the two in the journal Violence Against Women. User:Ninorc adds the following language:
For brevity and NPOV reasons, I ( User:Iamcuriousblue) shortened this to:
Now User:68.34.57.97, an editor who has made a number of edits to the articles Ronald Weitzer, Melissa Farley, and Prostitution in Nevada articles, removed this information so it reads as follows:
For the time being, I'm going to stay out of the debate as to whether they exposition of Weitzer's POV should be there or whether it is unduly prejudicial, though I think this is one of several issues that will need to be settled in the Mediation Committee case (linked to at the top of this page). I invite User:68.34.57.97 to add themselves as an additional party to the Mediation Committee case if they wish to participate.
My view is simply that Weitzer and his criticisms need to be mentioned in the section where Farley's research is discussed, and that if Weitzer's views are to be introduced, then long-winded and prejudicial text (like the version introduced by Ninorc, above) should be avoided. Otherwise, I leave it open how Weitzer is to be introduced and/or contextualized. Iamcuriousblue 02:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I notice that her most recent book on Nevada seems to keep disappearing and reappearing. Whatever one thinks about the merits of this work (and it has been heavily criticised - most notably by the Sociology Department at U Nevada Las Vegas) - it is a major work in the sense that it has a large influence on the debate over legal prostitution in Nevada. Mgoodyear 03:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
This article currently have a lot of links. I would like to see some of them plowed back into the article text as refs, even if this requires new assertions be made in the text.-- Keepthestub 22:40, 8 November 2007 (UTC)