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Why is the Armenian name relevant? the book is in Hebrew and the king isn't Armenian
The Book of Jasher ISBN: 1-55517-914-2 Page 41 Chapter 16:11 " And Adonizedek king of Jerusalem, the same was Shem, went out with his men to meet Abram and his people, with bread and wine, and they remained together in the valley of Melech."
This states that Adonizedek was Melchizedek was Shem the son of Noah. A study of the geneologies will show that Shem outlived Abraham.
Disagree, a study of genealogies does not show Shem outlived Abram. In fact both extended and short Genesis, can, and do, have him die before Abram. In long extended Genesis it is obvious that 500 years after the Flood will not reach Abram with figures of 135+130+134+130+132+130 as grandpa Nahor'a birth. So this eliminates Shem (by reconstructions accepted as Gentile secular facts). Now the short chron is where Shem dies when Abram is 150 (a contrast to dying 60 years later after Abram) so Shem dies before Abram who was born when Terah was 130 and scriptures verifies Terah died at 205. Though some will say this 205-year life is (70+135) as in living 135 (75+60) after Abram's birth (as if Terah dwelt in Haran 60 years after Abram left Harran), the evidence against this is in almost all chronologies having Terah die when Abram is 75 (whether Terah he be 145 or 205). Further, the Masoretic 205 is astronomy (208 of 360-day of 13-year Mars 6 orbits of 780 day). It has to do with the word Mar or Mars meaning The Son, and so Marduk of the temple is the son of the high priest father. It implies Abram is proclaimed The Son on Terah's death bed leaving Ur and going to Harran. (I must admit the temptation for an ancient chronologer is there if you know of the 137-year blessing by Shiloh /Arpaxad's son Shelah; as if Terah recognized these 135 years as 137 of 360-day so that Jasher has Abram come back to Harran Syria to get the blessing at death. Unfortunately the formula is 137 Julian are 139 calendar years.) Further, although Jasher says Terah was 70 for Abram, Jasher uses the same Flood year as Ussher, and the same birth year as Terah, and then merely gives Abram the 70 instead of Haran. Yet Jasher still makes Haran as a first born when Terah is 39 (3x Mars) so Abram is born in his 32nd year. This indicates that death of Haran is the only way Abram got the firstborn right. BUT even grandson LOT did not get it because clearly Haran and Nahor and Sarai were all half-siblings to a second wife that Abram was firstborn of legal first wife, and only son of her. BUT all long chrons have extended-Shem die a minimal of 540-590 years before Shem-Melchizedek dies. (Add 600 replace 159 (29+130) with 149 (79+70), or add 600 and replace Terah's 130 with 70. My study of not genealogy but other chronologies indicates Melkizedek is a title of longevity given to postFlood Noah before Shem built Salem. When Noah died, this title got divided between passive Shem and activist Nimrod. The indications of this is the two math figures they all share, that of 500 years and 600 years. Noah 500 to children, 600 to Flood. Shem 500 of his postFlood children until he dies at 600. Nimrod dies at age 500 in the year 600 after Noah (short chron 600 after Flood; long chron 600 after Noah's death). Compare the Era of oriental calendars and one keeps getting years that the death of short chron Shem (as long chron Salem Melkizedek), and the death of Abram. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that Shem gave his title to Abram to stop those who will honor Nimrod after Shem dies before Nimrod. I submit three chronologies. Japanese (3060bc +1200 to 1860bc +1200 to Era 660bc versus Jewish Demetrius and Jewish Eupolemus who pivot 1200 and 600 on 1843bc 25 years after 1868bc. The 8 before 1860bc is due to 600 after Flood being 608 of 360-day, and the 17 before 1843bc is due to postFlood 1200 Julian are 1217 of 360-day. Thus 1860bc bridges the gap dispute of a Melkizedek 1868bc (Shem) and Melkizedek 1843bc (Abram) both being given Nimrod's death year 600 reckoned as 1200. Discussion (charts)? rschiller@wi.rr.com 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 23:21, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Major revision of article. I added a detailed historical section. 217.225.12.236 21:40, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)Eypper 217.225.12.236 21:40, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Question on pronunciation guide: The pronunciation is given as (/mɛl.ˈkɪz.ə.dɪk/). Why should it not be rendered (/mɛl.ˈkɪz.ə.dɛk/) with the the fourth vowel matching the first? I.e. «mĕl-kĭz´a-dĕk»; Deck AOT Dick. Such would be consistent with any of the standard spelling transliterations that include vowels, with the 1st and 4th vowels matching and the 2nd vowel distinct from the 4th. I know the citation is from the LDS pronunciation guide, but I do not think that should be taken as authoritative and it may well be a typo itself. All other E logograms in the guide are rendered as either short or long E's-- ĕ or ē-- in pronunciation. Venqax 03/17/15 — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Venqax (
talk •
contribs) 16:16, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
At the moment, this sentence is POV (e.g. Bible literalists will not consider it a mystery). — Matt 18:21, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Because biblical literalism is a fringe view with no evidence. NPOV policy applies to differing mainstream viewpoints that are supported by evidence. -- Rob117 04:15, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
If we begin with a view that anything religious or pro-supernatural is necessarily without evidence, any view expressed by believers in the historical claims of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Bahai, etc. is therefore excluded. Any scholars within a religious tradition would be considered disqualified from comment (despite the fact that 80% of people in the world identify themselves with the traditions of the Christian, Islamic, Hindu, or Buddhist scriptures). Going the anti-religious route is something that Wikipedia intentionally sets out to avoid. If there is conflict between a traditional interpretation of a religious group and the consensus of modern scholars, that should be noted. In fact, if the scholarly community doesn't support a religious interpretation, we could say something along the lines of, "The majority of scholars are of the view that no individual matching the Biblical description of Melchizedek could ever have existed." Although some religious folk won't like it, that sort of approach has the advantage of being accurate and neutral. We can't cater to the religious, but neither can we pass judgment(as wikipedia, that is; individually we all pass some sorts of judgment) on the religious views of various groups.
And while we're at it, it seems that people are always beating on what they call biblical literalism. Other than people who have no familiarity with the Bible, everyone, believer and non-believer alike, holds some parts of the Bible to be literally true and some not to be. For example, no one will deny the Biblical claim that cattle have hooves. And no one will deny the figurative nature of Jesus' calling King Herod a fox, or John the Baptist calling the Pharisees a brood of vipers. So people who hold that Melchizedek was a historical figure aren't necessarily "literalists" per se, but rather religious people whose interpretation of the Bible leads them to believe that this is a historically accurate account. No one takes all the Bible as figure or all as literal truth. That's just a gross oversimplification that allows us to pigeon-hole the views of others. Mitchell Powell ( talk) 02:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I fail to see any evidence that this is most bible scholars. All non-Christian? all non=Jewish? all non-Moslem? Has the writer of this article been devoted to Shinto scholars of the Hebrew Bible as the majority!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Elijah Michael ( talk • contribs) 03:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC).
What is this section? It seems to be solely one man's (completly surmised) account of an occurance, which could have many historical explanations. It ought to be a paragraph long at the most and suplemented by other historian's views. Or at the very least this stuff should be explained: What evidence is there that Melchizedek refers to an 'El-elyon' rather than Yahweh (Who is also refered to as El throughout the bible, anyway). Why would an 'outside source' be inserted into the bible? Why? Why? I think this article is in severe need of cleanup.
Mr. Mauger -- just a thought -- it could be possible that the Dead Sea Scrolls that reference Malkizedek are copies of Biblical texts, as many of the Dead Sea Scrolls were.
I removed this from the article for now:
POV, really: Hebrews has nothing to contribute to the historical discussion unless (for example) you believe Hebrews to be the inspired word of God. Is there a point here that's worth salvaging and reinserting in NPOV form? — Matt Crypto 09:27, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Melchezedek is the son of Seth his mother is Edokla, he is one "born of the Word" as per John 1 v1
What is Melik-Sadaksina doing on this page? Shouldn't it be on its own page? If people believe Melchizedek was this other guy, then perhaps we should cross-reference them. Otherwise, I don't think it belongs here at all. Jgardner 18:48, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I believe the link to Dominion of Melchizedek and other things with references to Melchizedek are highly relevant. Please voice your concern if you don't think so. Jgardner 00:00, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I think there should be a link to the DOM and their Melchizedek Bible, ev en if not directly relevant to the original Melchizedek.
-- Beardo 05:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't see anyone objecting to it on the talk page. I don't mind at all. Just make sure it focuses on Melchizedek as a person and his history/the beliefs about him specifically within DOM. Wrad 15:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
The last part of the section on the Old Testiment and the section on the New Testiment are cut and paste straight from another website of essays from a person. It may be copyright. at least there shuld be a link or reference to the site. http://www.crystalinks.com/melchizedek.html. Could someone let me know if the etiquette for editing. Shoud these sections go in the order of the article or the order they are inserted. TY [mauger@gmail.com]
As for editing, the general principle on Wikipedia is "Be Bold," tempered, of course, by respect for the goals and policies of Wikipedia. If you make an edit in good faith, without reason to believe you're violating Wikipedia's policies, you'll be fine. Mitchell Powell ( talk) 03:07, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
An anon added a "See also" section referring to Paper 93 of The Urantia Book. In so doing, he or she (possibly inadvertently) deleted some information including categories and links to other language wikis. Never having heard of The Urantia Book, and thinking that the new section read like one of those breathless flyers that is pasted on telephone poles, I then deleted the entire section and restored the earlier version. Then I went and read the linked "Paper 93" and the rest of the urantia.org website (and the Urantia article here) and discovered that this is in fact an established, er, thing. So I restored as much of the information as I felt belonged in this encyclopedia entry. Apologies to the anon for hastily calling the addition "utter nonsense"; following this investigation I would upgrade the characterization to mere "crank." - EDM 08:28, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
The entry referenced above was extremely incomplete and potentially confusing. I replaced it with a paragraph very briefly summarizing some of the key concepts from The Urantia Book related to Melchizedeks and, specifically, Machiventa Melchizedek, the Melchizedek said by the book to have been a supernatural associate and inspiration to Abraham during a major part of his lifetime. This seems reasonable in view of the vast amount of inconsistent and confusing beliefs of various religions about Melchizedek, as presented earlier in the article. You may think it's "crank" but it at least makes a degree of historical and cultural sense. LDM [ldmjr@comcast.net] 16:50 22 October 2006 (EDT)
I think that the article Melchizedek Priesthood (Christianity) should be merged into this one. There needs to be one article about the Priesthood, and one about Melchizedek himself, in my opinion. the sections describing Melichizedek as a person should be moved to this article. Many parts of these articles seem to have directly copied and pasted from each other. Wrad 20:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I just erased most of the duplicated information on the other website. I don't know if much else needs to be done. Wrad 00:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
As it is, I think this Article has a lot of good info, but that it could be organized better. Other Biblical characters, such as David, are carefully organized to shows the facts and points of view of different religions. I think we have the info, just not the organization. Wrad 01:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I deleted a paragraph interpreting the Dh in terms of Heb.7 - i.e., questioing the theories of scholars concerning the passage in Genesis on the grounds that Hebrews says something to the contrary. The author of Genesis can hardly have been aware of the opinion of the author of Hebrews, and the line of thought is frankly unscholarly (tho I can see that if you believe that God inspired both Genesis and Hebrews, then it's QED, but that line of reasoning is not open to biblical scholars). Anyway, the paragraph doesn't belong in a section discussing scholarly theories about the origins of the passage in Genesis. PiCo 17:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Where does the reference to "Aaronic priesthood" come from. There is no discussion of the meaning of this term and there is no link for further information about it. What is Aaronic priesthood and why is its relation to Melchizedek priesthood important. This sounds like a reference to LDS belief, but it is not clearly marked as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.83.184.211 ( talk) 19:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
This isn't quite true. The yud is the hiriq compaginis expressing a genitive relationship (see GKC [Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar] section 90l), an archaic form sometimes seen in poetry and names. For example, in Ps 110:4, the other verse relating to Melchizedek, we get, "You are a priest forever according to the _order of Melchizedek_ (divrati melchizedek)." The name should be translated, "Zedek's king" or "King of righteousness." (We would leave Zedek untranslated probably only if we assume that it refers to the Phoenician or South Arabian deity of that name, cf Skinner, Genesis 267-8). The same is true for the name Adonizedek (Lord/Prince of Righteousness), and for a good deal of names throughout the Bible (e.g. Melchi-el [deut 8:16], Hani-el [num 34:23]).
So what prevents the reverse. If Zedek is my king (Righteous is my king), why not the god Molech is right? Molech the righteous one. I have yet to see where linguist translate properly, i.e. how does Abbi Nu Melki Nu mean our father out king when still today the Kurds in Turkey tell me Nu is Noah so it must be Father Noah King Noah. I am not defying a change in who is meant by the expression, but rather that origin began in relating everything our father Noah does as if it to be what our God wants. 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 22:33, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
For further discussion, see Horton, The Melchizedek Tradition (CambridgeUP, 1976), 42-45. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpmusic85 ( talk • contribs) 00:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I am not an expert nor I want to start any sterile debate. The Bible (from greek βιβλία = biblìa, plurale di biblìon, means books) is a common definition of two books one is a sacre book of the Hebrew and one of the Christian religion. If this is accepted (being consolidated), Tanàkh and Bible are derived from the same sources BUT are not the same book. Nor is the Bible derived by Tanakh which was an oral tradition. Therefore to unilaterally state that the Christian Bible is the Hebew Tanakh is a mistake. you can draw plenty of litherature from univrtisty and vatican itself . To mention one and not the other would be therofore a mistake and inaccurate. Specifically from the Vatican web page www.vaticano.vc "Nelle traduzioni in lingua moderna della Bibbia, specialmente cattoliche, sono compresi alcuni libri e passi che si riscontrano nella antica traduzione greca, detta dei LXX; questi libri vengono generalmente chiamati «apocrifi» o «deuterocanonici». " transaltion: "In the modern translation of the Bible, specially Catholic, are included books and passes , derived from the old greek translation, named of LXX, books generally sail "deuterocanonical". The Lone Ranger Hit me with a good one! 22:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
SamuelTheGhost insists on adding the word "often" to the remark that Salem is identified with Jerusalem. If one does not provide any alternative identifications let alone references for such identifications, "often" constitutes a weasel word (see WP:WEASEL). Either explain what other identifications are made providing references or remove the word "often". It is a well preserved tradition that Salem is Jerusalem, the identification is recorded by Josephus and in commentaries such as Genesis Rabbah and Rashi and is understood also in the Talmud's explanation of the name Jerusalem from yira + Shalem (Salem). It also accords with the name for Jerusalem in the Amarna letters which is a cognate of Hebrew Ir Shalem (City of Salem). Kuratowski's Ghost ( talk) 10:37, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't indicate that it is "pure speculation", it indicates that they are aware that it departs from tradition and they don't want to be too dogmatic so as not to offend anyone. As Christians, they regard Epistle to the Hebrews as authoritative, and if the author of that had believed Salem to be Jerusalem, he would surely have said so. No doubt you will also dismiss Encyclopaedia Biblica here. You keep on trying to convert me to your POV, which is not the point. Not all scholars share it, so we don't adopt it. I really can't see why you have such a problem with giving Salem=Jerusalem as the "traditional" view, and leave it at that. Why is it necessary to be so dogmatic? SamuelTheGhost ( talk) 16:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
There is an interesting biblical theory which identifies Melchizedek as none other than Jesus Christ himself before the holy incarnation with the Holy Family in Bethlehem. It would be interesting if this could be mentioned in the article at some point. ADM ( talk) 15:12, 31 May 2009 (UTC) [1] [2]
I've made an addition about Melchizedek as a priest - Gen. 14 describes him as a priest but without giving him the required lineage (he seems not to be a descendant of Abraham at all, at least as far as one can tell from Gen.14). It's this that created a problem for Jewish theologians, as I've tried to put in the article. Others are welcome to express this better if they wish. PiCo ( talk) 08:25, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
A few more interim comments here:
There's a fair amount of material in the article based on the ideas of Kamal Salibi. Does anyone know if Salibi's work in this area has wide acceptance, or is it fringe? If it is, it shouldn't be included. PiCo ( talk) 06:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Thank you both for your comments. Might I say what a pleasure it is to work with such leaned and civilised people. Anyway, having read your thoughts, I now have some of my own to offer. It seems to me that Salibi is noted as a historian, but not as a biblical scholar.
The question therefore is, is he a reliable source on this matter? Fortunately not all of the material in the section is actually from Salibi, and for this material the question of his acceptability as a RS doesn't arise. So, for the first point in the section: For the second half of Psalms 110:4 the KJV has Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. For the same place the New Jewish Publication Society of America Version, 1985 edition, has You are a priest forever, a rightful king by My decree, the source is the NJPS 1985 - if either of you has a page reference, let's use it.
Similarly for the third point, the source is the NAB. Do you have a page ref?
That leaves two points from Salibi. In your opinion, is he OR enough to include them, even with a note that it's controversial?
Finally, there's the summing-up at the end: Immediately before and after this short passage in Genesis 14, in verses 17 and 21, Abram is represented as in conversation with the King of Sodom. The implication of retranslations 2 and 4 above is to say that the king (whichever one) brought out food, then gave his blessing, then he and Abram broke bread together. The net effect of retranslations 3 and 4 might imply that the whole interchange was with the King of Sodom. This needs to be sourced to someone authoritative, otherwise it's an editorial comment from WIkipedia, which is a no-no. But logically it's true enough, and I could probably re-word things so that it doesn't stick out so obviously. (By the way, I'm a journalist, a professional writer, not a biblical scholar - I rely on you gentlemen to guide me in matters of substance).
PiCo ( talk) 04:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
PiCo -- I'm not sure exactly what you meant by 'page reference', so forgive me if I'm pointing out something you already know. When Bible versions are cited, generally page references are not given, because the Bible has been printed in so many different editions in so many different versions that page refs provide a much handier method of looking up passages (especially so today, for those doing so online). Especially with the much-printed KJV, a page reference wouldn't do anyone much good. Mitchell Powell ( talk) 03:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I hope you'll consider favourably my latest edit. The material from Salibi is still there, and I've tried to present it in a way that seems less like a personal synthesis. PiCo ( talk) 07:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Without the ascription it looks like Wikipedia endorses the position. It's not a universally agreed or understood position. As such "some scholars" with their names, is more helpful and neutral, when in the main body of the text.-- Benson Verazzano ( talk) 13:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I notice that after PiCo's recent edits there was a drastic reduction in the number of uses of template:bibleverse. Was this an accident, or is there some reason to avoid it? SamuelTheGhost ( talk) 16:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
After examining Hebrews, I see no mention of the Temple of Jerusalem. Why is the Temple of Jerusalem mentioned in the Melchizedek in the New Testament section? Is the section writer injecting interpretation? An encyclopedia article ought to simply describe the facts: Exactly what does the text say about Melchisedec? No more no less. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.26.203.13 ( talk) 23:05, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
based on the nikkud of the name in the original text, may i purpose changing the page name to Malchi-Tzedek?-- 108.6.69.139 ( talk) 19:07, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
I've placed an "incomplete" box in the article as i see a bit of excess (repetitious material) and some sentences that could use more explanation (take "zohar" for example, what is upper and lower world in kabbalah usage?)..-- Marecheth Ho'eElohuth ( talk) 22:15, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to create a separate article about "Melchizedek in the The Urantia Book" and leaving a short-wording section about it, as the other sections on "M. In later literature". If the same strategy is used for "Melchizedek in the New Testament", which is surely not a Fringe theory, it shall be convenient also for "Melchizedek in the The Urantia Book" ( WP:Fringe). A ntv ( talk) 11:38, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
The article reads "William F. Albright has proposed that "king of Salem" is a corruption of an original text which he reconstructed as: "And Melchizedek, a king allied to him"
Does indeed the Samaritan Pentateuch have a spelling of שלמו?-- Marecheth Ho'eElohuth ( talk) 17:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
article quotes an opinion that msr "could perhaps also mean just portion" -this statement is untrue as "maasar" (as sourced from the word עשר -ten) means a tenth in every and all biblical sources. ill give till tomorrow for any feedback b/f i delete it (again)-- Marecheth Ho'eElohuth ( talk) 22:18, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
cheers with beers-- Marecheth Ho'eElohuth ( talk) 17:51, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Upon doing some work to the "Psalm 110" paragraph I feel that keying in the original hebrew text would be beneficial in explaining the various components of the text.. is this acceptable here at Wikipedia?-- חודר לעומר ( talk) 23:03, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi Marecheth, this relates to Melchizedek edits in particular, but may cover other articles. Surely material from a late pseudepigraphic work such as Moses de Leon's Zohar should really stay down in the Zohar section of articles relating to Rabbinical tradition and not be up among earlier source material such as Genesis. Sorry, Zohar material moved back to Zohar. In ictu oculi ( talk) 18:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Melchizedek&curid=8285608&diff=637955911&oldid=637942934 Good removal. Belongs in the bio of the writer or in the book. In ictu oculi ( talk) 16:04, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
The revision I found had this text:
Clearly this was based on poor understanding on the part of whoever put this together. You do not need to take recourse to the Epistle of the Hebrews or Josephus to establish that the name combines malik "king" and tzedek "righteousness": this is completely undisputed and straightforward. Therefore, there is also no need to take recourse to unnamed "modern scholars" who "uphold" this.
The question is, rather, the presence of the possessive suffix, as Hebrews 7:2 explicitly states the translation of the name is "βασιλεὺς δικαιοσύνης", i.e. "king of righteousness", omitting translation of the possessive pronoun. What we need is not evidence that "malik" means "king" or "tzedek" "righteousness", but that some "modern scholar" has explicitly argued that the original name does not, in fact, contain the possessive pronoun.-- dab (𒁳) 08:29, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
I think I now understand that people want to get rid of the possessive pronoun because the New Testament says "king of righteousness". Well, find some philologist commenting on this, otherwise we can just state the fact that Paul in Hebrews renders the name so. Paul did not make a philological argument, he was making a rhetorical statement associating Melchizedek with the Christ. -- dab (𒁳) 08:49, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Cut as WP:UNDUE:
The implication is to say that the king (whether of Sodom or of Salem) brought out food, then blessed Abram and El Elyon. afaics, this is WP:FRINGE literature with no shred of credibility. Salibi (1985) apparently wanted to build a case of an "Arabian origin of the Hebrew Bible", and consequently made up Arabic etymologies for everything (which is extremely easy because of the close relation of Hebrew and Arabic and the consonantal script). Unless we have some evidence that this book met with anything like a charitable reception, I see no reason to mention it here. -- dab (𒁳) 08:49, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
@ PiCo and Seraphim System:
WP:BRD, not WP:BRRRRRRRD. Ian.thomson ( talk) 06:18, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Undue is not determined by the number of followers a religion has - though you are acting in good faith, referring to a religion as "undue" is extremely offensive. The section has been in the article for a long time. You can not unilaterally delete an entire section from an article without consensus. That is not how we do things. Seraphim System ( talk) 06:10, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Seraphim System ( talk) 17:24, 17 May 2017 (UTC)Smith’s teachings departed from conventional Christian traditions by incorporating certain practices from the Hebrew Bible. The temples he built (in Smith’s lifetime, two were erected and two more were planned) were modeled on the temples of ancient Israel. He appointed his male followers to priesthoods, named for the biblical figures Melchizedek and Aaron, that were overseen by the office of High Priest
I have updated the section; improvements welcome. — Paleo Neonate — 22:10, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
I don't see the value of this section since it only says that in two other traditions Melchizedek is of no importance... — Paleo Neonate — 13:09, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Article needs an edit to clarify statements like "Reference between the messhiac and Melchizedek appears in subsequent biblical verses: ", in lede, and make clear the distinctions between teh bible text and the interpretations of it by various exegetes and sects. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 19:57, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
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Hebrews 7:3 says that Melchizedek was without mother and father, without beginning or end, a priest forever. ("Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever", NIV, but every translation is similar). The surrounding verses make clear that this is meant as a literal statement of facts about Melchizedek (which is what makes him worthy to be compared to Jesus later).
This article doesn't even mention this line. Priesthood of Melchizedek mentions it only in passing, in the middle of a paragraph, to explain why some Christians believe Melchizedek was Jesus (not just a Christophany, or a typos of Christ, but literally him).
But the line is not only important to that small minority viewpoint, it's central to why Melchizedek is important, and mysterious, to all Christians. (And, for that matter, it's also part of why many Jews, Muslims, and atheists reject the NT as the inspired word of God.) Leaving it out is like leaving the virgin birth out of an article about Jesus, and mentioning it nowhere else except a subarticle about Mariology, buried in a paragraph about the Thomistic perspective. -- 157.131.168.209 ( talk) 19:55, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
I changed "It has been suggested" to "Joseph Blenkinsopp has suggested", so that people can have a name to easily look up to see if the fellow is at all credible, and to see how many people were suggesting such. He wrote the book cited, so I assume he is the one who suggested it. "It has been suggested" falls under the category of "weasel words", in my opinion.
With His 23 Elders(1 to come Who is HERE;) surrounding His Throne and Him being ONE 152.97.157.190 ( talk) 16:45, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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Why is the Armenian name relevant? the book is in Hebrew and the king isn't Armenian
The Book of Jasher ISBN: 1-55517-914-2 Page 41 Chapter 16:11 " And Adonizedek king of Jerusalem, the same was Shem, went out with his men to meet Abram and his people, with bread and wine, and they remained together in the valley of Melech."
This states that Adonizedek was Melchizedek was Shem the son of Noah. A study of the geneologies will show that Shem outlived Abraham.
Disagree, a study of genealogies does not show Shem outlived Abram. In fact both extended and short Genesis, can, and do, have him die before Abram. In long extended Genesis it is obvious that 500 years after the Flood will not reach Abram with figures of 135+130+134+130+132+130 as grandpa Nahor'a birth. So this eliminates Shem (by reconstructions accepted as Gentile secular facts). Now the short chron is where Shem dies when Abram is 150 (a contrast to dying 60 years later after Abram) so Shem dies before Abram who was born when Terah was 130 and scriptures verifies Terah died at 205. Though some will say this 205-year life is (70+135) as in living 135 (75+60) after Abram's birth (as if Terah dwelt in Haran 60 years after Abram left Harran), the evidence against this is in almost all chronologies having Terah die when Abram is 75 (whether Terah he be 145 or 205). Further, the Masoretic 205 is astronomy (208 of 360-day of 13-year Mars 6 orbits of 780 day). It has to do with the word Mar or Mars meaning The Son, and so Marduk of the temple is the son of the high priest father. It implies Abram is proclaimed The Son on Terah's death bed leaving Ur and going to Harran. (I must admit the temptation for an ancient chronologer is there if you know of the 137-year blessing by Shiloh /Arpaxad's son Shelah; as if Terah recognized these 135 years as 137 of 360-day so that Jasher has Abram come back to Harran Syria to get the blessing at death. Unfortunately the formula is 137 Julian are 139 calendar years.) Further, although Jasher says Terah was 70 for Abram, Jasher uses the same Flood year as Ussher, and the same birth year as Terah, and then merely gives Abram the 70 instead of Haran. Yet Jasher still makes Haran as a first born when Terah is 39 (3x Mars) so Abram is born in his 32nd year. This indicates that death of Haran is the only way Abram got the firstborn right. BUT even grandson LOT did not get it because clearly Haran and Nahor and Sarai were all half-siblings to a second wife that Abram was firstborn of legal first wife, and only son of her. BUT all long chrons have extended-Shem die a minimal of 540-590 years before Shem-Melchizedek dies. (Add 600 replace 159 (29+130) with 149 (79+70), or add 600 and replace Terah's 130 with 70. My study of not genealogy but other chronologies indicates Melkizedek is a title of longevity given to postFlood Noah before Shem built Salem. When Noah died, this title got divided between passive Shem and activist Nimrod. The indications of this is the two math figures they all share, that of 500 years and 600 years. Noah 500 to children, 600 to Flood. Shem 500 of his postFlood children until he dies at 600. Nimrod dies at age 500 in the year 600 after Noah (short chron 600 after Flood; long chron 600 after Noah's death). Compare the Era of oriental calendars and one keeps getting years that the death of short chron Shem (as long chron Salem Melkizedek), and the death of Abram. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that Shem gave his title to Abram to stop those who will honor Nimrod after Shem dies before Nimrod. I submit three chronologies. Japanese (3060bc +1200 to 1860bc +1200 to Era 660bc versus Jewish Demetrius and Jewish Eupolemus who pivot 1200 and 600 on 1843bc 25 years after 1868bc. The 8 before 1860bc is due to 600 after Flood being 608 of 360-day, and the 17 before 1843bc is due to postFlood 1200 Julian are 1217 of 360-day. Thus 1860bc bridges the gap dispute of a Melkizedek 1868bc (Shem) and Melkizedek 1843bc (Abram) both being given Nimrod's death year 600 reckoned as 1200. Discussion (charts)? rschiller@wi.rr.com 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 23:21, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Major revision of article. I added a detailed historical section. 217.225.12.236 21:40, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)Eypper 217.225.12.236 21:40, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Question on pronunciation guide: The pronunciation is given as (/mɛl.ˈkɪz.ə.dɪk/). Why should it not be rendered (/mɛl.ˈkɪz.ə.dɛk/) with the the fourth vowel matching the first? I.e. «mĕl-kĭz´a-dĕk»; Deck AOT Dick. Such would be consistent with any of the standard spelling transliterations that include vowels, with the 1st and 4th vowels matching and the 2nd vowel distinct from the 4th. I know the citation is from the LDS pronunciation guide, but I do not think that should be taken as authoritative and it may well be a typo itself. All other E logograms in the guide are rendered as either short or long E's-- ĕ or ē-- in pronunciation. Venqax 03/17/15 — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Venqax (
talk •
contribs) 16:16, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
At the moment, this sentence is POV (e.g. Bible literalists will not consider it a mystery). — Matt 18:21, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Because biblical literalism is a fringe view with no evidence. NPOV policy applies to differing mainstream viewpoints that are supported by evidence. -- Rob117 04:15, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
If we begin with a view that anything religious or pro-supernatural is necessarily without evidence, any view expressed by believers in the historical claims of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Bahai, etc. is therefore excluded. Any scholars within a religious tradition would be considered disqualified from comment (despite the fact that 80% of people in the world identify themselves with the traditions of the Christian, Islamic, Hindu, or Buddhist scriptures). Going the anti-religious route is something that Wikipedia intentionally sets out to avoid. If there is conflict between a traditional interpretation of a religious group and the consensus of modern scholars, that should be noted. In fact, if the scholarly community doesn't support a religious interpretation, we could say something along the lines of, "The majority of scholars are of the view that no individual matching the Biblical description of Melchizedek could ever have existed." Although some religious folk won't like it, that sort of approach has the advantage of being accurate and neutral. We can't cater to the religious, but neither can we pass judgment(as wikipedia, that is; individually we all pass some sorts of judgment) on the religious views of various groups.
And while we're at it, it seems that people are always beating on what they call biblical literalism. Other than people who have no familiarity with the Bible, everyone, believer and non-believer alike, holds some parts of the Bible to be literally true and some not to be. For example, no one will deny the Biblical claim that cattle have hooves. And no one will deny the figurative nature of Jesus' calling King Herod a fox, or John the Baptist calling the Pharisees a brood of vipers. So people who hold that Melchizedek was a historical figure aren't necessarily "literalists" per se, but rather religious people whose interpretation of the Bible leads them to believe that this is a historically accurate account. No one takes all the Bible as figure or all as literal truth. That's just a gross oversimplification that allows us to pigeon-hole the views of others. Mitchell Powell ( talk) 02:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I fail to see any evidence that this is most bible scholars. All non-Christian? all non=Jewish? all non-Moslem? Has the writer of this article been devoted to Shinto scholars of the Hebrew Bible as the majority!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Elijah Michael ( talk • contribs) 03:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC).
What is this section? It seems to be solely one man's (completly surmised) account of an occurance, which could have many historical explanations. It ought to be a paragraph long at the most and suplemented by other historian's views. Or at the very least this stuff should be explained: What evidence is there that Melchizedek refers to an 'El-elyon' rather than Yahweh (Who is also refered to as El throughout the bible, anyway). Why would an 'outside source' be inserted into the bible? Why? Why? I think this article is in severe need of cleanup.
Mr. Mauger -- just a thought -- it could be possible that the Dead Sea Scrolls that reference Malkizedek are copies of Biblical texts, as many of the Dead Sea Scrolls were.
I removed this from the article for now:
POV, really: Hebrews has nothing to contribute to the historical discussion unless (for example) you believe Hebrews to be the inspired word of God. Is there a point here that's worth salvaging and reinserting in NPOV form? — Matt Crypto 09:27, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Melchezedek is the son of Seth his mother is Edokla, he is one "born of the Word" as per John 1 v1
What is Melik-Sadaksina doing on this page? Shouldn't it be on its own page? If people believe Melchizedek was this other guy, then perhaps we should cross-reference them. Otherwise, I don't think it belongs here at all. Jgardner 18:48, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I believe the link to Dominion of Melchizedek and other things with references to Melchizedek are highly relevant. Please voice your concern if you don't think so. Jgardner 00:00, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I think there should be a link to the DOM and their Melchizedek Bible, ev en if not directly relevant to the original Melchizedek.
-- Beardo 05:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't see anyone objecting to it on the talk page. I don't mind at all. Just make sure it focuses on Melchizedek as a person and his history/the beliefs about him specifically within DOM. Wrad 15:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
The last part of the section on the Old Testiment and the section on the New Testiment are cut and paste straight from another website of essays from a person. It may be copyright. at least there shuld be a link or reference to the site. http://www.crystalinks.com/melchizedek.html. Could someone let me know if the etiquette for editing. Shoud these sections go in the order of the article or the order they are inserted. TY [mauger@gmail.com]
As for editing, the general principle on Wikipedia is "Be Bold," tempered, of course, by respect for the goals and policies of Wikipedia. If you make an edit in good faith, without reason to believe you're violating Wikipedia's policies, you'll be fine. Mitchell Powell ( talk) 03:07, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
An anon added a "See also" section referring to Paper 93 of The Urantia Book. In so doing, he or she (possibly inadvertently) deleted some information including categories and links to other language wikis. Never having heard of The Urantia Book, and thinking that the new section read like one of those breathless flyers that is pasted on telephone poles, I then deleted the entire section and restored the earlier version. Then I went and read the linked "Paper 93" and the rest of the urantia.org website (and the Urantia article here) and discovered that this is in fact an established, er, thing. So I restored as much of the information as I felt belonged in this encyclopedia entry. Apologies to the anon for hastily calling the addition "utter nonsense"; following this investigation I would upgrade the characterization to mere "crank." - EDM 08:28, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
The entry referenced above was extremely incomplete and potentially confusing. I replaced it with a paragraph very briefly summarizing some of the key concepts from The Urantia Book related to Melchizedeks and, specifically, Machiventa Melchizedek, the Melchizedek said by the book to have been a supernatural associate and inspiration to Abraham during a major part of his lifetime. This seems reasonable in view of the vast amount of inconsistent and confusing beliefs of various religions about Melchizedek, as presented earlier in the article. You may think it's "crank" but it at least makes a degree of historical and cultural sense. LDM [ldmjr@comcast.net] 16:50 22 October 2006 (EDT)
I think that the article Melchizedek Priesthood (Christianity) should be merged into this one. There needs to be one article about the Priesthood, and one about Melchizedek himself, in my opinion. the sections describing Melichizedek as a person should be moved to this article. Many parts of these articles seem to have directly copied and pasted from each other. Wrad 20:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I just erased most of the duplicated information on the other website. I don't know if much else needs to be done. Wrad 00:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
As it is, I think this Article has a lot of good info, but that it could be organized better. Other Biblical characters, such as David, are carefully organized to shows the facts and points of view of different religions. I think we have the info, just not the organization. Wrad 01:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I deleted a paragraph interpreting the Dh in terms of Heb.7 - i.e., questioing the theories of scholars concerning the passage in Genesis on the grounds that Hebrews says something to the contrary. The author of Genesis can hardly have been aware of the opinion of the author of Hebrews, and the line of thought is frankly unscholarly (tho I can see that if you believe that God inspired both Genesis and Hebrews, then it's QED, but that line of reasoning is not open to biblical scholars). Anyway, the paragraph doesn't belong in a section discussing scholarly theories about the origins of the passage in Genesis. PiCo 17:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Where does the reference to "Aaronic priesthood" come from. There is no discussion of the meaning of this term and there is no link for further information about it. What is Aaronic priesthood and why is its relation to Melchizedek priesthood important. This sounds like a reference to LDS belief, but it is not clearly marked as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.83.184.211 ( talk) 19:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
This isn't quite true. The yud is the hiriq compaginis expressing a genitive relationship (see GKC [Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar] section 90l), an archaic form sometimes seen in poetry and names. For example, in Ps 110:4, the other verse relating to Melchizedek, we get, "You are a priest forever according to the _order of Melchizedek_ (divrati melchizedek)." The name should be translated, "Zedek's king" or "King of righteousness." (We would leave Zedek untranslated probably only if we assume that it refers to the Phoenician or South Arabian deity of that name, cf Skinner, Genesis 267-8). The same is true for the name Adonizedek (Lord/Prince of Righteousness), and for a good deal of names throughout the Bible (e.g. Melchi-el [deut 8:16], Hani-el [num 34:23]).
So what prevents the reverse. If Zedek is my king (Righteous is my king), why not the god Molech is right? Molech the righteous one. I have yet to see where linguist translate properly, i.e. how does Abbi Nu Melki Nu mean our father out king when still today the Kurds in Turkey tell me Nu is Noah so it must be Father Noah King Noah. I am not defying a change in who is meant by the expression, but rather that origin began in relating everything our father Noah does as if it to be what our God wants. 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 22:33, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
For further discussion, see Horton, The Melchizedek Tradition (CambridgeUP, 1976), 42-45. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpmusic85 ( talk • contribs) 00:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I am not an expert nor I want to start any sterile debate. The Bible (from greek βιβλία = biblìa, plurale di biblìon, means books) is a common definition of two books one is a sacre book of the Hebrew and one of the Christian religion. If this is accepted (being consolidated), Tanàkh and Bible are derived from the same sources BUT are not the same book. Nor is the Bible derived by Tanakh which was an oral tradition. Therefore to unilaterally state that the Christian Bible is the Hebew Tanakh is a mistake. you can draw plenty of litherature from univrtisty and vatican itself . To mention one and not the other would be therofore a mistake and inaccurate. Specifically from the Vatican web page www.vaticano.vc "Nelle traduzioni in lingua moderna della Bibbia, specialmente cattoliche, sono compresi alcuni libri e passi che si riscontrano nella antica traduzione greca, detta dei LXX; questi libri vengono generalmente chiamati «apocrifi» o «deuterocanonici». " transaltion: "In the modern translation of the Bible, specially Catholic, are included books and passes , derived from the old greek translation, named of LXX, books generally sail "deuterocanonical". The Lone Ranger Hit me with a good one! 22:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
SamuelTheGhost insists on adding the word "often" to the remark that Salem is identified with Jerusalem. If one does not provide any alternative identifications let alone references for such identifications, "often" constitutes a weasel word (see WP:WEASEL). Either explain what other identifications are made providing references or remove the word "often". It is a well preserved tradition that Salem is Jerusalem, the identification is recorded by Josephus and in commentaries such as Genesis Rabbah and Rashi and is understood also in the Talmud's explanation of the name Jerusalem from yira + Shalem (Salem). It also accords with the name for Jerusalem in the Amarna letters which is a cognate of Hebrew Ir Shalem (City of Salem). Kuratowski's Ghost ( talk) 10:37, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't indicate that it is "pure speculation", it indicates that they are aware that it departs from tradition and they don't want to be too dogmatic so as not to offend anyone. As Christians, they regard Epistle to the Hebrews as authoritative, and if the author of that had believed Salem to be Jerusalem, he would surely have said so. No doubt you will also dismiss Encyclopaedia Biblica here. You keep on trying to convert me to your POV, which is not the point. Not all scholars share it, so we don't adopt it. I really can't see why you have such a problem with giving Salem=Jerusalem as the "traditional" view, and leave it at that. Why is it necessary to be so dogmatic? SamuelTheGhost ( talk) 16:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
There is an interesting biblical theory which identifies Melchizedek as none other than Jesus Christ himself before the holy incarnation with the Holy Family in Bethlehem. It would be interesting if this could be mentioned in the article at some point. ADM ( talk) 15:12, 31 May 2009 (UTC) [1] [2]
I've made an addition about Melchizedek as a priest - Gen. 14 describes him as a priest but without giving him the required lineage (he seems not to be a descendant of Abraham at all, at least as far as one can tell from Gen.14). It's this that created a problem for Jewish theologians, as I've tried to put in the article. Others are welcome to express this better if they wish. PiCo ( talk) 08:25, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
A few more interim comments here:
There's a fair amount of material in the article based on the ideas of Kamal Salibi. Does anyone know if Salibi's work in this area has wide acceptance, or is it fringe? If it is, it shouldn't be included. PiCo ( talk) 06:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Thank you both for your comments. Might I say what a pleasure it is to work with such leaned and civilised people. Anyway, having read your thoughts, I now have some of my own to offer. It seems to me that Salibi is noted as a historian, but not as a biblical scholar.
The question therefore is, is he a reliable source on this matter? Fortunately not all of the material in the section is actually from Salibi, and for this material the question of his acceptability as a RS doesn't arise. So, for the first point in the section: For the second half of Psalms 110:4 the KJV has Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. For the same place the New Jewish Publication Society of America Version, 1985 edition, has You are a priest forever, a rightful king by My decree, the source is the NJPS 1985 - if either of you has a page reference, let's use it.
Similarly for the third point, the source is the NAB. Do you have a page ref?
That leaves two points from Salibi. In your opinion, is he OR enough to include them, even with a note that it's controversial?
Finally, there's the summing-up at the end: Immediately before and after this short passage in Genesis 14, in verses 17 and 21, Abram is represented as in conversation with the King of Sodom. The implication of retranslations 2 and 4 above is to say that the king (whichever one) brought out food, then gave his blessing, then he and Abram broke bread together. The net effect of retranslations 3 and 4 might imply that the whole interchange was with the King of Sodom. This needs to be sourced to someone authoritative, otherwise it's an editorial comment from WIkipedia, which is a no-no. But logically it's true enough, and I could probably re-word things so that it doesn't stick out so obviously. (By the way, I'm a journalist, a professional writer, not a biblical scholar - I rely on you gentlemen to guide me in matters of substance).
PiCo ( talk) 04:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
PiCo -- I'm not sure exactly what you meant by 'page reference', so forgive me if I'm pointing out something you already know. When Bible versions are cited, generally page references are not given, because the Bible has been printed in so many different editions in so many different versions that page refs provide a much handier method of looking up passages (especially so today, for those doing so online). Especially with the much-printed KJV, a page reference wouldn't do anyone much good. Mitchell Powell ( talk) 03:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I hope you'll consider favourably my latest edit. The material from Salibi is still there, and I've tried to present it in a way that seems less like a personal synthesis. PiCo ( talk) 07:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Without the ascription it looks like Wikipedia endorses the position. It's not a universally agreed or understood position. As such "some scholars" with their names, is more helpful and neutral, when in the main body of the text.-- Benson Verazzano ( talk) 13:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I notice that after PiCo's recent edits there was a drastic reduction in the number of uses of template:bibleverse. Was this an accident, or is there some reason to avoid it? SamuelTheGhost ( talk) 16:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
After examining Hebrews, I see no mention of the Temple of Jerusalem. Why is the Temple of Jerusalem mentioned in the Melchizedek in the New Testament section? Is the section writer injecting interpretation? An encyclopedia article ought to simply describe the facts: Exactly what does the text say about Melchisedec? No more no less. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.26.203.13 ( talk) 23:05, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
based on the nikkud of the name in the original text, may i purpose changing the page name to Malchi-Tzedek?-- 108.6.69.139 ( talk) 19:07, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
I've placed an "incomplete" box in the article as i see a bit of excess (repetitious material) and some sentences that could use more explanation (take "zohar" for example, what is upper and lower world in kabbalah usage?)..-- Marecheth Ho'eElohuth ( talk) 22:15, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to create a separate article about "Melchizedek in the The Urantia Book" and leaving a short-wording section about it, as the other sections on "M. In later literature". If the same strategy is used for "Melchizedek in the New Testament", which is surely not a Fringe theory, it shall be convenient also for "Melchizedek in the The Urantia Book" ( WP:Fringe). A ntv ( talk) 11:38, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
The article reads "William F. Albright has proposed that "king of Salem" is a corruption of an original text which he reconstructed as: "And Melchizedek, a king allied to him"
Does indeed the Samaritan Pentateuch have a spelling of שלמו?-- Marecheth Ho'eElohuth ( talk) 17:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
article quotes an opinion that msr "could perhaps also mean just portion" -this statement is untrue as "maasar" (as sourced from the word עשר -ten) means a tenth in every and all biblical sources. ill give till tomorrow for any feedback b/f i delete it (again)-- Marecheth Ho'eElohuth ( talk) 22:18, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
cheers with beers-- Marecheth Ho'eElohuth ( talk) 17:51, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Upon doing some work to the "Psalm 110" paragraph I feel that keying in the original hebrew text would be beneficial in explaining the various components of the text.. is this acceptable here at Wikipedia?-- חודר לעומר ( talk) 23:03, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi Marecheth, this relates to Melchizedek edits in particular, but may cover other articles. Surely material from a late pseudepigraphic work such as Moses de Leon's Zohar should really stay down in the Zohar section of articles relating to Rabbinical tradition and not be up among earlier source material such as Genesis. Sorry, Zohar material moved back to Zohar. In ictu oculi ( talk) 18:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Melchizedek&curid=8285608&diff=637955911&oldid=637942934 Good removal. Belongs in the bio of the writer or in the book. In ictu oculi ( talk) 16:04, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
The revision I found had this text:
Clearly this was based on poor understanding on the part of whoever put this together. You do not need to take recourse to the Epistle of the Hebrews or Josephus to establish that the name combines malik "king" and tzedek "righteousness": this is completely undisputed and straightforward. Therefore, there is also no need to take recourse to unnamed "modern scholars" who "uphold" this.
The question is, rather, the presence of the possessive suffix, as Hebrews 7:2 explicitly states the translation of the name is "βασιλεὺς δικαιοσύνης", i.e. "king of righteousness", omitting translation of the possessive pronoun. What we need is not evidence that "malik" means "king" or "tzedek" "righteousness", but that some "modern scholar" has explicitly argued that the original name does not, in fact, contain the possessive pronoun.-- dab (𒁳) 08:29, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
I think I now understand that people want to get rid of the possessive pronoun because the New Testament says "king of righteousness". Well, find some philologist commenting on this, otherwise we can just state the fact that Paul in Hebrews renders the name so. Paul did not make a philological argument, he was making a rhetorical statement associating Melchizedek with the Christ. -- dab (𒁳) 08:49, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Cut as WP:UNDUE:
The implication is to say that the king (whether of Sodom or of Salem) brought out food, then blessed Abram and El Elyon. afaics, this is WP:FRINGE literature with no shred of credibility. Salibi (1985) apparently wanted to build a case of an "Arabian origin of the Hebrew Bible", and consequently made up Arabic etymologies for everything (which is extremely easy because of the close relation of Hebrew and Arabic and the consonantal script). Unless we have some evidence that this book met with anything like a charitable reception, I see no reason to mention it here. -- dab (𒁳) 08:49, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
@ PiCo and Seraphim System:
WP:BRD, not WP:BRRRRRRRD. Ian.thomson ( talk) 06:18, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Undue is not determined by the number of followers a religion has - though you are acting in good faith, referring to a religion as "undue" is extremely offensive. The section has been in the article for a long time. You can not unilaterally delete an entire section from an article without consensus. That is not how we do things. Seraphim System ( talk) 06:10, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Seraphim System ( talk) 17:24, 17 May 2017 (UTC)Smith’s teachings departed from conventional Christian traditions by incorporating certain practices from the Hebrew Bible. The temples he built (in Smith’s lifetime, two were erected and two more were planned) were modeled on the temples of ancient Israel. He appointed his male followers to priesthoods, named for the biblical figures Melchizedek and Aaron, that were overseen by the office of High Priest
I have updated the section; improvements welcome. — Paleo Neonate — 22:10, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
I don't see the value of this section since it only says that in two other traditions Melchizedek is of no importance... — Paleo Neonate — 13:09, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Article needs an edit to clarify statements like "Reference between the messhiac and Melchizedek appears in subsequent biblical verses: ", in lede, and make clear the distinctions between teh bible text and the interpretations of it by various exegetes and sects. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 19:57, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
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Hebrews 7:3 says that Melchizedek was without mother and father, without beginning or end, a priest forever. ("Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever", NIV, but every translation is similar). The surrounding verses make clear that this is meant as a literal statement of facts about Melchizedek (which is what makes him worthy to be compared to Jesus later).
This article doesn't even mention this line. Priesthood of Melchizedek mentions it only in passing, in the middle of a paragraph, to explain why some Christians believe Melchizedek was Jesus (not just a Christophany, or a typos of Christ, but literally him).
But the line is not only important to that small minority viewpoint, it's central to why Melchizedek is important, and mysterious, to all Christians. (And, for that matter, it's also part of why many Jews, Muslims, and atheists reject the NT as the inspired word of God.) Leaving it out is like leaving the virgin birth out of an article about Jesus, and mentioning it nowhere else except a subarticle about Mariology, buried in a paragraph about the Thomistic perspective. -- 157.131.168.209 ( talk) 19:55, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
I changed "It has been suggested" to "Joseph Blenkinsopp has suggested", so that people can have a name to easily look up to see if the fellow is at all credible, and to see how many people were suggesting such. He wrote the book cited, so I assume he is the one who suggested it. "It has been suggested" falls under the category of "weasel words", in my opinion.
With His 23 Elders(1 to come Who is HERE;) surrounding His Throne and Him being ONE 152.97.157.190 ( talk) 16:45, 27 November 2021 (UTC)