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There has been a couple of attempts at deleting this article. The last one purports notability and POV issues. In addressing these issues please note that the said person - as the article states - was a respected journalist and intellectual whise writings and books are all over the internet. In addition, his funeral was attempted by numerous heads of state - again as stated in the article. If this does not make a person notable then what does?
With regards to POV allegations, please feel free to change the langauge to a more neutral one where you see fit. I translated the article from the Turkish Wikipedia and added more information with as many reliable me sources as possible.
There are plenty of more articles deserving of deletion but for some reason some editors have a problem with this person in perticular.
The article also exists in versions over languages on Wikipedia. If anyone has an issue, you may address them here on Talk or better yet contribute to improving the article and being constructive rather than being destructive. 786wave ( talk) 07:40, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
I took the time to add more sources, and would appreciate it if others did some research online and contributed to the article. 786wave ( talk) 07:53, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Which means the article is credible since it has got so many reliable sources user:MrsSnoozyTurtle. 786wave ( talk) 02:43, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Hello 786wave. Your Edit Summary states "See Talk page" as the reasoning for your reverts, however there does not seem to be any relevant discussion here? Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 23:02, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
Hello, there is a relevant discussion. You - with all due respect - fail to see it. Kind regards, 786wave ( talk) 11:18, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Please read the above discussions carefully regarding your concerns. Thanks. 786wave ( talk) 11:39, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
There is a topic by the name of “Proposed deletion issue”. It refers to your tag. It’s not like there are dozens of topics discussed above. Your failing to see it only makes me think you’re insisting to add the tab in bad faith.
I’ve also answered your allegation that the article was written from a POV perspective. Far from it. I translated it from the original Turkish.
I put in the time and effort and I’m not going to let it be tagged inappropriately. Hope that makes sense. 786wave ( talk) 03:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Regarding your last paragraph, yes it does make sense. However you do not have authority to make unilateral judgements like this on Wikipedia, and I disagree that it is inappropriate. MrsSnoozyTurtle 08:51, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
You’re welcome. Now maybe you can discuss the subject at hand instead of wining about how you’re supposed to and not supposed to be treated. You’re the last person to give me lessons on civility since you’re trolling me. As discussed before, no need to delete a perfectly good article just because you “feel” you don’t like me. 786wave ( talk) 22:49, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Is that why you’re also reverting my contributions in another article? 786wave ( talk) 02:39, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Mrs Snoozy, How about you do some work and find the sources instead of deleting whole sections? Your actions are on the verge of vandalism. Please be more constructive. 786wave ( talk) 11:10, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
Your actions are a clear violation of the rules you supposedly espouse. 786wave ( talk) 19:04, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Oh so that was SleazyTurtoise’s goal all along! To slander this intellectual with anti-Semitism. I should’ve known all along. Well, take your POV editing to some other article. He did write and warn about Turkish Sabataist Jews. That is not even close to anti-Semitism. Moreover, you might just be an anti-Muslim Islamophobe… 786wave ( talk)| — Preceding undated comment added 18:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
No there isn’t. You may say he wrote extensively on conspiracies and that it was his belief but he supported them with evidence. He was also critical of some Turkish Jews. Name calling is plain slander and is contrary to NPOV rules too. 786wave ( talk) 15:55, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Also, please stop deleting entire sentences supported by reliable sources like you did here. 786wave ( talk) 16:00, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Do the sources you speak about know or understand the Turkish language? I doubt it. So can they even be considered reliable? Where do they get their info from? Who made such claims? Not Eygi.
Can someone who wrote for a pseudo-newspaper that has only a few thousand subscribers be so effective in spreading propaganda? Sounds like a joke. Please do some more independent research before slandering a dead person. I happen to read Turkish sources. Last but not least, no I did not read anything about him denying the Holocaust. However, your rhetoric and assumptions are definitely problematic. I suggest you do not approach Wikipedia in such a biased manner. Thank you, 786wave ( talk) 15:05, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
By the way, the famous excerpts I added prove beyond doubt he was not an antisemite. Please refrain from deleting it as you have done a second time here. 786wave ( talk) 16:09, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
I do not remember removing referenced content but you, sir, have done so on many occasions. Your reasoning is flawed and certainly against WP:POV rules. You’re assuming the references you provided are reliable. I can argue the opposite. After all, few sites on the internet today are impartial. The sources you’re referring to are definitely hostile to the poor dead man, not because they understand him or what he wrote, but because they assume he’s an Islamist since he was openly claiming his Muslim faith and defending the rights of Muslims in a majority Muslim country run by anti-Muslim corporate elite. So yes, Islamophobia and anti-Muslim sentiment exists and is well and kicking. Anywah, we have clear differences in thought and I recommend we work it out by finding middle ground. Otherwise, I’m afraid it will only escalate. Thank you, 786wave ( talk) 14:29, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Notice I did not delete your arguably unreliable sources under the Criticism section but dispute calling him whatever you claim as a description of him especially when the text you referenced does not mention any of those personal opinions. 786wave ( talk) 14:38, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
What does what you say have anything to do with the article or with what we have been discussing? Why are you taking the subject at hand off to a tangent? The same can be said of your actions: Wikipedia is not a place for pro-Zionist rants. It's obvious we will not be able to reach an agreement. Your poking me with the "events of 1915" will not get you to change anybody's mind, least of which mine. I do not believe in accusations based on false history written by biased, paid academics. The archives of Turkey are open for all historians and scholars to research. However, I will poke back at you as it is my right and only fair: the Holocaust casualty numbers might just be grossly exaggerated as an excuse to establish the State of Israel. I recommend you do some research on the topic. But that's beside the point.
You are deleting referenced content, vandalizing, and censoring my contributions here without properly explaining your edits again. Please stop it. This is my final warning. Thank you, 786wave ( talk) 12:43, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
I feel that it is a good idea to have a very close look at the sources provided in this article:
This Wikipedia article is definitely not written from a neutral point of view. This is quite obvious as almost all sources cited are right-wing, Turkish Nationalist, Pro Eygi sources. I find it very concerning that there is no mentioning whatsoever about the fact that Eygi was sentenced to 20 months in prison for openly inciting people to hatred and enmity: "Gazeteci-yazar Mehmet Şevket Eygi, Milli Gazete'de yayınlanan Din düşmanlığı terörü başlıklı yazısında Halkı din ve mezhep farklılığı gözeterek kin ve düşmanlığa açıkça tahrik ettiği gerekçesiyle 1 yıl 8 ay ağır hapis cezasına çarptırıldı." [1] In fact, Eygi has commited this crime multiple times, and he was again sentenced to 12 months in prision! In order for this article to be neutral, several non-right-wing sources are needed. The lead section needs neutralisation, and it should read something like this: "Mehmed Şevket Eygi (February 7, 1933, Ereğli – July 12, 2019, Istanbul) was a Turkish journalist, author, intellectual, and demagogue." There are several (Turkish language(!)) sources that are not limited to positive facets of Eygi, they need to be cited. -- Johannes ( Talk) ( Contribs) ( Articles) 13:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
I believe that this version, while not perfect, has improved NPOV compared to the current text. Therefore I propose to mostly restore this version, but with the opening sentence revised to remove the part about anti-Semitic beliefs. Johannes Maximilian, what do you think of this idea? Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 23:21, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
Hello MrsSnoozyTurtle, I suggest leaving the current lead as is, with one minor tweak: The removal of the "Eygi called for Turkish Muslims to take responsibility for their shortcomings" sentence, because it is warranted to believe that it is part of Eygi's antisemitic propaganda (because that 'info' is not derived from reliable secondary sources, it is more or less an interpretation of what Eygi has said; and well, we all know what Eygi really meant, I reckon). And well, the following is an argumentum ad hominem, however, I believe that it is justified in this situation: The sentence in the lead section that I think needs removal was added by a now-blocked editor who has, in ine of his last edits on this page, downplayed the Holocaust – downplaying the Holocaust is a proper subset of Holocaust denial. Best regards, -- Johannes ( Talk) ( Contribs) ( Articles) 17:32, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
I agree with your suggestion of leaving the lead mostly as-is with just the removal of the "shortcomings" sentence, and will do that now. All the best, MrsSnoozyTurtle 22:14, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
References
Eygi denied being an Islamist in his writings. Just because a writer for the pseudo-newspaper Sozcu called him an Islamist one time does not make him so either. 786wave ( talk) 15:47, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hello MrsSnoozyTurtle, the now-blocked editor has also denied the Holocaust on this talk page: "the Holocaust casualty numbers might just be grossly exaggerated as an excuse to establish the State of Israel". Best regards, -- Johannes ( Talk) ( Contribs) ( Articles) 23:19, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Hi, This article is biased towards certain view points and is therefore unbalanced. I suggest adding the necessary template until this problem is resolved. Regards, 88.231.147.172 ( talk) 19:17, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This page was proposed for deletion by MrsSnoozyTurtle ( talk · contribs) on 20 June 2021. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
There has been a couple of attempts at deleting this article. The last one purports notability and POV issues. In addressing these issues please note that the said person - as the article states - was a respected journalist and intellectual whise writings and books are all over the internet. In addition, his funeral was attempted by numerous heads of state - again as stated in the article. If this does not make a person notable then what does?
With regards to POV allegations, please feel free to change the langauge to a more neutral one where you see fit. I translated the article from the Turkish Wikipedia and added more information with as many reliable me sources as possible.
There are plenty of more articles deserving of deletion but for some reason some editors have a problem with this person in perticular.
The article also exists in versions over languages on Wikipedia. If anyone has an issue, you may address them here on Talk or better yet contribute to improving the article and being constructive rather than being destructive. 786wave ( talk) 07:40, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
I took the time to add more sources, and would appreciate it if others did some research online and contributed to the article. 786wave ( talk) 07:53, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Which means the article is credible since it has got so many reliable sources user:MrsSnoozyTurtle. 786wave ( talk) 02:43, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Hello 786wave. Your Edit Summary states "See Talk page" as the reasoning for your reverts, however there does not seem to be any relevant discussion here? Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 23:02, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
Hello, there is a relevant discussion. You - with all due respect - fail to see it. Kind regards, 786wave ( talk) 11:18, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Please read the above discussions carefully regarding your concerns. Thanks. 786wave ( talk) 11:39, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
There is a topic by the name of “Proposed deletion issue”. It refers to your tag. It’s not like there are dozens of topics discussed above. Your failing to see it only makes me think you’re insisting to add the tab in bad faith.
I’ve also answered your allegation that the article was written from a POV perspective. Far from it. I translated it from the original Turkish.
I put in the time and effort and I’m not going to let it be tagged inappropriately. Hope that makes sense. 786wave ( talk) 03:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Regarding your last paragraph, yes it does make sense. However you do not have authority to make unilateral judgements like this on Wikipedia, and I disagree that it is inappropriate. MrsSnoozyTurtle 08:51, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
You’re welcome. Now maybe you can discuss the subject at hand instead of wining about how you’re supposed to and not supposed to be treated. You’re the last person to give me lessons on civility since you’re trolling me. As discussed before, no need to delete a perfectly good article just because you “feel” you don’t like me. 786wave ( talk) 22:49, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Is that why you’re also reverting my contributions in another article? 786wave ( talk) 02:39, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Mrs Snoozy, How about you do some work and find the sources instead of deleting whole sections? Your actions are on the verge of vandalism. Please be more constructive. 786wave ( talk) 11:10, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
Your actions are a clear violation of the rules you supposedly espouse. 786wave ( talk) 19:04, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Oh so that was SleazyTurtoise’s goal all along! To slander this intellectual with anti-Semitism. I should’ve known all along. Well, take your POV editing to some other article. He did write and warn about Turkish Sabataist Jews. That is not even close to anti-Semitism. Moreover, you might just be an anti-Muslim Islamophobe… 786wave ( talk)| — Preceding undated comment added 18:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
No there isn’t. You may say he wrote extensively on conspiracies and that it was his belief but he supported them with evidence. He was also critical of some Turkish Jews. Name calling is plain slander and is contrary to NPOV rules too. 786wave ( talk) 15:55, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Also, please stop deleting entire sentences supported by reliable sources like you did here. 786wave ( talk) 16:00, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Do the sources you speak about know or understand the Turkish language? I doubt it. So can they even be considered reliable? Where do they get their info from? Who made such claims? Not Eygi.
Can someone who wrote for a pseudo-newspaper that has only a few thousand subscribers be so effective in spreading propaganda? Sounds like a joke. Please do some more independent research before slandering a dead person. I happen to read Turkish sources. Last but not least, no I did not read anything about him denying the Holocaust. However, your rhetoric and assumptions are definitely problematic. I suggest you do not approach Wikipedia in such a biased manner. Thank you, 786wave ( talk) 15:05, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
By the way, the famous excerpts I added prove beyond doubt he was not an antisemite. Please refrain from deleting it as you have done a second time here. 786wave ( talk) 16:09, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
I do not remember removing referenced content but you, sir, have done so on many occasions. Your reasoning is flawed and certainly against WP:POV rules. You’re assuming the references you provided are reliable. I can argue the opposite. After all, few sites on the internet today are impartial. The sources you’re referring to are definitely hostile to the poor dead man, not because they understand him or what he wrote, but because they assume he’s an Islamist since he was openly claiming his Muslim faith and defending the rights of Muslims in a majority Muslim country run by anti-Muslim corporate elite. So yes, Islamophobia and anti-Muslim sentiment exists and is well and kicking. Anywah, we have clear differences in thought and I recommend we work it out by finding middle ground. Otherwise, I’m afraid it will only escalate. Thank you, 786wave ( talk) 14:29, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Notice I did not delete your arguably unreliable sources under the Criticism section but dispute calling him whatever you claim as a description of him especially when the text you referenced does not mention any of those personal opinions. 786wave ( talk) 14:38, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
What does what you say have anything to do with the article or with what we have been discussing? Why are you taking the subject at hand off to a tangent? The same can be said of your actions: Wikipedia is not a place for pro-Zionist rants. It's obvious we will not be able to reach an agreement. Your poking me with the "events of 1915" will not get you to change anybody's mind, least of which mine. I do not believe in accusations based on false history written by biased, paid academics. The archives of Turkey are open for all historians and scholars to research. However, I will poke back at you as it is my right and only fair: the Holocaust casualty numbers might just be grossly exaggerated as an excuse to establish the State of Israel. I recommend you do some research on the topic. But that's beside the point.
You are deleting referenced content, vandalizing, and censoring my contributions here without properly explaining your edits again. Please stop it. This is my final warning. Thank you, 786wave ( talk) 12:43, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
I feel that it is a good idea to have a very close look at the sources provided in this article:
This Wikipedia article is definitely not written from a neutral point of view. This is quite obvious as almost all sources cited are right-wing, Turkish Nationalist, Pro Eygi sources. I find it very concerning that there is no mentioning whatsoever about the fact that Eygi was sentenced to 20 months in prison for openly inciting people to hatred and enmity: "Gazeteci-yazar Mehmet Şevket Eygi, Milli Gazete'de yayınlanan Din düşmanlığı terörü başlıklı yazısında Halkı din ve mezhep farklılığı gözeterek kin ve düşmanlığa açıkça tahrik ettiği gerekçesiyle 1 yıl 8 ay ağır hapis cezasına çarptırıldı." [1] In fact, Eygi has commited this crime multiple times, and he was again sentenced to 12 months in prision! In order for this article to be neutral, several non-right-wing sources are needed. The lead section needs neutralisation, and it should read something like this: "Mehmed Şevket Eygi (February 7, 1933, Ereğli – July 12, 2019, Istanbul) was a Turkish journalist, author, intellectual, and demagogue." There are several (Turkish language(!)) sources that are not limited to positive facets of Eygi, they need to be cited. -- Johannes ( Talk) ( Contribs) ( Articles) 13:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
I believe that this version, while not perfect, has improved NPOV compared to the current text. Therefore I propose to mostly restore this version, but with the opening sentence revised to remove the part about anti-Semitic beliefs. Johannes Maximilian, what do you think of this idea? Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 23:21, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
Hello MrsSnoozyTurtle, I suggest leaving the current lead as is, with one minor tweak: The removal of the "Eygi called for Turkish Muslims to take responsibility for their shortcomings" sentence, because it is warranted to believe that it is part of Eygi's antisemitic propaganda (because that 'info' is not derived from reliable secondary sources, it is more or less an interpretation of what Eygi has said; and well, we all know what Eygi really meant, I reckon). And well, the following is an argumentum ad hominem, however, I believe that it is justified in this situation: The sentence in the lead section that I think needs removal was added by a now-blocked editor who has, in ine of his last edits on this page, downplayed the Holocaust – downplaying the Holocaust is a proper subset of Holocaust denial. Best regards, -- Johannes ( Talk) ( Contribs) ( Articles) 17:32, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
I agree with your suggestion of leaving the lead mostly as-is with just the removal of the "shortcomings" sentence, and will do that now. All the best, MrsSnoozyTurtle 22:14, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
References
Eygi denied being an Islamist in his writings. Just because a writer for the pseudo-newspaper Sozcu called him an Islamist one time does not make him so either. 786wave ( talk) 15:47, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hello MrsSnoozyTurtle, the now-blocked editor has also denied the Holocaust on this talk page: "the Holocaust casualty numbers might just be grossly exaggerated as an excuse to establish the State of Israel". Best regards, -- Johannes ( Talk) ( Contribs) ( Articles) 23:19, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Hi, This article is biased towards certain view points and is therefore unbalanced. I suggest adding the necessary template until this problem is resolved. Regards, 88.231.147.172 ( talk) 19:17, 15 April 2022 (UTC)