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Discussion about centralization took place at Talk:Binary prefix.
We need to establish a convention for Wikipedia about the word "megabyte" because of the conflicting definitions, or else we cannot ever use the word. Should we go with SI, i.e. 106 bytes, and then use the new MiB for 220 bytes? AxelBoldt, Friday, April 26, 2002
If we accept this convention for the word "megabyte", we then should do the same for "kilobyte", i.e. 103 bytes and kiB for 210 bytes, too. I know children look rather confused when I explain to them that km is a 1000 m, while kB is 1024 bytes, because computers work better with binary numbers... Maria Renee Jenkins, Sunday, April 28, 2002
It is our task to follow standards, not ignore them. The plain reality is, majority usage for MB is the binary MB, and I ain't talking about a small majority either. The fact that "there are 1024 somethingorothers in a KB" is one of the very few things that Joe Average computer user really does understand. And where did this Wikipedia "policy" come from all of a sudden? It's a really bad idea. Tannin 13:18, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I picked the "policy" since after my question above, nobody expressed an opinion either way for quite some time. The policy does not ignore standards, but follows them. I agree with your assessment of majority usage, but I don't think it is a large majority: the average computer user encounters megabytes in four contexts:
Decimal megabytes are used in two of the four contexts. If you prefer we pick the opposite policy, then you need to invent a name for 106 bytes, and you need to make the case why Wikipedia should ignore international standards in favor of this new name. AxelBoldt 17:14, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)
A vote has been started on whether Wikipedia should use these prefixes all the time, only in highly technical contexts, or never. - Omegatron 14:50, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
After some double-checking and extensive web searching, it appears that the overwhelming majority consider a MegaByte to be a binary million, i.e. 10^20. As far as I can see, only hard drive and floppy drive manufacturers use a decimal million (10^6), primarily for marketing/misleading reasons. example. I've worked in IT for 10 years, and I've never even heard of a Mebibyte. Regards, -- Rebroad 19:58, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Just realised that this article has been misleading since May 2003 ( see) when the more commonly used usage was moved to 2nd in the list. -- Rebroad 20:06, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This was pretty clearly not NPOV, reproducing the "it's a conspiracy by hard drive manufacturers" line. I've added some unambiguous cases--for instance, the CD standard uses base 2, whereas the DVD standards use base 10. I've also tried to make it clear that hard drive manufacturers almost always use base 10, while OS software and humans mostly use base 2. As a final note, I've added a comment about MHz to go along with the discussion of Mb, making it clear that although people measure RAM capacity in base-2, they measure RAM speed in base 10. Now, can we all switch to SI and stop being needlessly confusing? Please? Metamatic 21:05, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't think the "Megabytes in Use" section is very useful, particularly the part about a megaybte storing roughly one book, 100 small images, or 1 minute of audio. Given that books come in all sizes, designs, and point sizes, this comparison is virtually useless. 100 small images? How small? JPEG? GIF? PNG? TIFF? 1 minute of audio as mp3 at 128kbit is indeed roughly 1 MB. As a WAV file, it's 10 MB however. I think this part should either be removed or replaced with a more clearly defined standard of measurement. pogo, June 2005
A definition of the IEC proposal on the NIST does not, in itself, constitute advocacy of adoption, nor does it necessarily represent an official endorsement of the standard.
I refer you to the actual text appearing on the single page at the NIST that touches on the topic [3] (which, incidently, has an unclear authorship date). For example (emphasis mine):
I'd be interested in any references to actual, recent, implemented use of the newer terms in NIST activities... Just as a point of reference, note also that NIST is a non-regulatory federal agency... - Liberty 04:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Sounds like an endorsement to me... — Omegatron 04:48, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
The facts on the ground are that the largest OSes (Microsoft's, POSIX (Unix, BSD, Linux, OS X...) use the binary system, and this it the computer arena where people most often come in contact with these metrics. At some (most?) CPUs run at binary-based speeds, e.g. the first 65c02 was 1.024 MHz, as I recall. Changed the page to reflect that.
Why is there a link to a picture of flies having sex?
Someone inserted and someone reverted:
Let's discuss this before putting it back in production. I'll state my objects to the addition first:
The entire addition seems to be an objection to the use of megabyte with supporting argument. It's taking a position and promoting a particular POV. It might be a common POV, but "common" isn't necessarily "neutral". I vote to strike the edit. -- JJLatWiki 16:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I've again removed the sentence "So, technically, it is the operating system that creates the confusion, rather than the hard disk vendor." This sentence implies that the hard disk vendor is more correct than the operating system vendor in their choice of units, which cannot be established without the implied POV that the SI units are better than binary units. JulesH 14:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Am I the only one to get the irony that physics now thinks in terms of bits, at Planck scales? 67.161.157.179 ( talk) 10:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
"In the past few years, standards and government authorities including IEC, IEEE, EU, and NIST, have addressed this ambiguity by promoting the use of megabyte to describe strictly 1000² bytes and "mebibyte" to describe 1024² bytes."
This is unclear as to when "the past few years" is. 20 years down the line, it certainly won't be true. Does anyone know when IEC, IEEE, EU, and NIST began to promote the use of these terms? If so, it should be added in the article. Meviin 01:31, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm very disappointed to find something so stupid on Wikipedia; every child in computer science learns that 1 Megabyte = 1024 Kilobytes, it's widely accepted in the computer science community to count in 1024 (2^10), Microsoft Windows & Linux use it to show storage capacities. So where does this 1000 come from ? stupid, stupid, stupid. Maybe it's better to throw wikipedia to the garbage can and buy a real encyclopedia.
~~Marc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.197.65.107 ( talk) 18:12, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
The way I see it there isn't much confusion, either you know why there are two definitions and apply them according to the circumstances... Or you have no idea so it either a. shouldn't matter, or b. you learn what the situation is. People who bitch and moan that hard drive manufacturers are ripping them off are using phony naivety to get all worked up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.198.102 ( talk)
We have the SI, which is very well established. As a standards committee we have ISO, which is THE authority on units and their naming. I think it's a BAD idea to settle these things on the web, by voting, where every TD&H can yell something. ISO cannot define kilo to be anything else than 1000 anymore, so in support of their inevitable decision:
1: Kilo = 1000 was first. Us computer guys /gals misused it FIRST, to mean 1024. So let's not keep investing in a lost cause, admit the error and correct it as soon as we can.
2: Users, in the age of terabyte disks and gigabyte memory, don't really care if their memory is a few percent larger or smaller than stated.
3: We can use mega=1000000 and leave mebibi etc for specialists and spec sheets.
4: What is the problem of printing "1.024 kB" ?
Erik6000 (
talk)
08:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Kbrose has been making bold revisions to the article without discussion, and I've reverted twice. The essay was supposed to be WP:BRD, not WP:BRRRRRD. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:10, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Any objections ? Megapixie ( talk) 09:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
- I browsed to this page hoping to quickly clarify a simple and straightforward problem and instead stumbled across this wearisome, abstract from someone's Master thesis. I became mired therein. This page is uselessly tortuous. Please remember that such a commonplace subject as this is likely to draw many people for perfectly mundane reasons. Please modify the article so that it responds to simple, superficial inquiries (suh as my own) as well as to more indepth inquiries. Thank you. (Have not logged on in a few years)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.129.108.112 ( talk) 20:46, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Anyone who has worked in the computer and networking industries long enough should not have much of a problem understanding which means which. Bandwidth is in metric bits, raw HDD capacity is in metric bytes, and memory is in binary bytes. If I tell people (who are confused) how to differentiate I advise them to use the following:
"m" = 1000 (smaller sum), metric "M" = 1024 (larger sum), binary "b" = bit (usually 1/8th of a byte) "B" = byte
If this makes sense to anyone, bandwidth would be in "mb", raw HDD capacity "mB", and memory "MB". It makes more sense than making up what sounds like computer "baby talk".
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Wdl71 ( talk • contribs) 16:34, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I doubt that this will ever change/be sorted out. Everyone in the IT, except for hard disk manufacturers, uses Megabyte/Gigabyte in the classic sense - and will keep doing so because it simply doesn't make any sense to change it. Hard disk manufacturers will keep selling their stuff with the artificial definition because it makes their drives look bigger. I don't see any way how this could be changed/solved. The so called "standard" is no standard because the majority blatantly ignores it and goes for the definition that has been de-facto in place for tenths of years longer. I actually find the Wikipedia article pretty good because it clearly points out the difference between artificial definition and reality. Lodan ( talk) 05:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
It can contain a value of 1,000,000 or 1,048,572. How can something equal two values? A Megabyte equals 1048572. Do not use the back of a HDD box which contains *advertising* as a way to prove it equals something less. Otherwise I would believe 'coke is it'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.124.36 ( talk) 22:54, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
This is absolutely retarded, you need to consult CS and EE textbooks to see what a megabyte actually is, and it's 1024 kilobytes, where a kilobyte is 1024 bytes (not 1000 bytes). Megabyte is not used to mean two different values. It is however used by marketing and advertising people and idiots who don't know what they're talking about. It doesn't matter very much when you're looking at a hard drive box, but these are not the actual values as they are defined in computer science and engineering textbooks, which should be given deference over anything else in this case. Furthermore, these are not fucking SI quantities. SI quantities and decimal bases are great for physics, but they are not useful everywhere, and as a result CS and EE use a binary base, just like they use a binary log. Get your fucking facts straight, this has brought Wikipedia credibility down in my eyes.
And yes, the big M is for 1024 KB, where K is 1024 B and B is a byte and the little m is for 1000kb, the little k is for 1000 bits, these are used as well and that is how they are differentiated, there is sometimes a need, usually in networks, to use decimal and this is how it is done.
Thank you, now go punch yourself in the face, whichever dumb ass or dumb asses wrote this article and thought it was actually OK.-- 66.68.84.105 ( talk) 05:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
IMO, this and all of the articles related to memory capacities should be rewritten. Despite what the article says, if you ask most technical people they will tell you that a MB is 1024*1024 bytes. They will also tell you that Mb is 1000*1000 bits. The usefulness of base decimal arithmetic is not universal, for example the use of a binary logarithm is quite common when discussing algorithms. Even though Mega- is an SI term, it shouldn't be Wikipedia's job to dictate that it is exclusive to SI measurements, Wikipedia should fairly document what the term "megabyte" has been used for, lest readers be confused when they encounter a situation that contradicts the reality that Wikipedia would have them believe: that mebibyte is a term that is actually used in practice and is useful (I've never seen this term used) and that megabyte really is predominantly associated with 1000*1000 bytes.
At the very least, the use of MB as 2^20 bytes deserves a significant portion of this article and the proposed standard of MB as 10^6 bytes should be documented as such - a proposed standard instead of having readers believe what is actually not true. I think the idea of mebibyte, even though I disagree with it, is OK to document, but this and the other articles seem to me to be written in a way that claims that these terms are simply the end all and be all of memory sizes when that simply isn't the case.
Also, to preface the definition of megabyte in the article with "The term "megabyte" is ambiguous because it is commonly used to mean either 10002 bytes or 10242 bytes." is unnecessary. Instead of saying that the term "megabyte" is ambiguous, simply state the different uses and contexts where each use might occur and probably some information on which terms are more common and the instances where certain terms might be more likely.
-- Rahennig ( talk) 18:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree so I made some changes that you suggested. Glider87 ( talk) 14:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Alan.A.Mick ( talk) 21:19, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Just to chime in, the context in which mega(byte,bit) is commonely used with the decimal base is electrical engineering where data communications or transfers is the context. The context in which the binary base is used is in computer science and engineering where memory size, address or capacity (either volatile or nonvolitile, backing or primary) is the context. I work as a software engineer in space applications (satellites) where I often deal with both contexts. When the wiki first introduced readers to the membibyte and related terms, some "important people" pointed it out as posibly being useful. I tried using it both internally and in presentations to organizations such as NASA and the IAF, and it inverablly caused confusion. Nobody (all highly technical and fully immersed in this field) was familiar with the "mebibyte" terminology. Noone else used it. I stoped using it. If the base is important or ambigous, I always just put (2^20) or (10^6) in parens to claify. Actual practitioners who have a very strong interest in precise and unabmigious terminolgy just do not use the "mebibyte" terminology.
This article is a bunch of POV-pushing crap why are so many people like crap!. Some of the I.P.s active here might be the same old ones who have been banned because they couldn’t stop advocating that the world adopt the IEC prefixes (MiB and KiB). This article is in need of a serious rewrite. Unfortunately, most of the serious wikipedians just roll their eyeballs at this article and give up on it because of what the I.P.s are up to. What a mess. Greg L ( talk) 21:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Megabytes being 1024 kilobyte may be confusing for people coming from the field of science where the prefix kilo conventionally means 1000 and all mathematics is done in base 10; but there is a reason why, in the field of computing, kilo conventionally means 1024. It's all to do with how data is stored and how processors compute data. Processors compute data in powers of 2. A system bus carries information in powers of 2. Not because we're trying to be difficult in the computing industry but because data is easiest to store, compress and work with when represented in binary. As such computer memory needs to be in multiples of this fundamental unit. So, as a programmer, you need to construct your code to work with these fundamental units. As a computer engineer, you need to create your hardware to work with these fundamental units. For instance, RAM is always in multiples of 1024 bytes because it has to be. You could store your data next to a decimal scale but if you did then the processor would constantly have to swap data in and out through the bus and from memory and from slower storage mediums such as a hard drive. Take a 64 bit bus, and you've got a 128 bit file (16 bytes). Easy peasy, you pass it in in two chunks and none of the data is redundant. Say you had a file of 100 bits. You pass it in two chunks and you've got 28 bits of redundant data. It creates a bottle kneck in the processing of the code. So all data is stored and worked on in multiples of 8. Say then you wanted to know how big a file is. Say you wanted to know how many thousands of bytes a file is made from. The calculation to do this is more complex (and consequently takes more time and processing power) than it is to work out how many thousand and twenty fours of bytes a file is made. This is why in the industry of computing, data is worked out in mutiples of 1024. It takes less time to process the file size. Not only that but all files are made up of multiples of 8 bits. So every file size is divisible by 8 without leaving a remainder. This allows you to store the file size in bytes as an integer, and to convert the value to kilobytes, megabytes, gigabytes, etc with a simple and quick bit-shift operation (the quickest operation there is). If the convention in computing was to represent file sizes in decimals that would mean calling on the Arthmatic Logic Unit, a much lengthier operation, every time we wanted to convert from 1000 to 1000x1000, and so on. From the stand point of any computer professional, there is zero value in enforcing a decimal size convention. It ignores the fundamental unit on which binary computers operate. It ignores the fundamental benefits of storing data next to powers of 2. The only people who benefit from using 1000 over 1024 are sellers of hard disk drives who can flog you a "1TB" HDD which is actually 1000*1000*1000*8 which is 70GB less in size than it should be. The international standards organisation is incorrect. Unlike science which is primarily based in base 10 math, computing has adopted the convention of base 2 math. To computer professionals it will ALWAYS be 1024 because it would be counter-productive to work from a convension of 1000. This article sould primarily reflect the convention of the industry which coined the term. With smaller sections on the pedantry of a standards organisation, the false advertising of hardware vendors and the voices of a lay mob. 94.197.127.59 ( talk) 18:48, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
In an attempt to resolve this ambiguity, the IEC adopted (and other orgs approved) what are now referred to as the IEC binary prefixes, including "Mebi" for 1024 squared. Thus " mebibyte" or its abbreviation "MiB" was to be used in, for example, specifications of RAM capacity, which traditionally used "megabyte" to mean 1024 squared. However, actual use of these binary prefixes is very uncommon.
It's just wrong. http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/crd/Localgov/Second%20Level%20pages/indiana_pi_bill.htm 94.197.127.241 ( talk) 01:00, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
Although the ISQ standard for megabyte is 1,000,000 bytes, the JEDEC standard is 1,048,576, and the latter usage is still more common for memory, although memory units as small as a megabyte are uncommon, except in the context above: "Well, for starters, if someone asks me how much memory is available for dynamic instances of object type X, and I answer two megabytes, then they will go away thinking that they can create 2048 dynamic objects each using 1024 bytes of memory... and they'll be correct. " — Arthur Rubin (talk) 07:47, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
I don't know how much clearer the record can be, when even JEDEC states explicitly that the binary interpretation is deprecated. Silencing the fact, and erasing it from documentation make no sense. JEDEC does not forbid the incorrect usage obviously, as they know that manufacturers have large investments in equipment that is expense to retool, and therefore have long lead times for such changes. Some manufacturers apparently already are converting, with dual labeling. Yes, it is indeed standards bodies that deprecated usage, not the public. The public just follows suit, which may take a long time, that I grant. It is rather mind boggling how backwards these editor think, to keep the incorrect usages in place for no obvious benefit. It only prolongs the confusion aspect in the general population. Surely knowledgeable folks know very well the difference and anyone implementing software based on specs these days, examines which meaning is the correct one to use. To be honest, for knowledgable people these day, the uncertainty of which units are implied is indeed greater than ever, one can never be sure what is meant without examination, but this should be only a transition period. Prolonging the incorrect usage make no sense, because the train to conversion has been on track for 15 years. There is no reversal, and it is time that these refuseniks see the light. Kbrose ( talk) 19:02, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
However, in the computer and information technology fields, several other definitions are used. A common usage is to designate one megabyte as 1048576bytes (220), a measurement that conveniently expresses the binary multiples inherent in digital computer memory architectures. Less common is a measurement that used the megabyte to mean 1000×1024 (1024000) bytes. [1]
However, in the computer and information technology fields, several other definitions are used that arose for historical reasons of convenience. A common usage has been to designate one megabyte as 1048576bytes (220), a measurement that conveniently expresses the binary multiples inherent in digital computer memory architectures. However, most standards bodies have deprecated this usage in favor of a set of binary prefixes, [1] in which this measurement is designated by the unit mebibyte (MiB). Less common is a measurement that used the megabyte to mean 1000×1024 (1024000) bytes. [1]
However, in the computer and information technology fields, other definitions are used. A common usage is to designate one megabyte as 1048576bytes (220), a measurement that conveniently expresses the binary multiples inherent in digital computer memory architectures. However, most standards bodies have deprecated this usage in favor of a set of binary prefixes, [1] in which this measurement is designated by the unit mebibyte (MiB). Less common is a measurement that used the megabyte to mean 1000×1024 (1024000) bytes. [1]
I see no reason to change from the new version, as it accurately reflects the situation and history. Kbrose ( talk) 19:54, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
However, in the computer and information technology fields, other definitions are used. In the 1980s, when the first hard drives were developed, the megabyte meant one million bytes. When semiconductor memory first exceeded 1 megabyte, due to the binary multiples inherent in digital computer memory architectures, it became common to use this term to mean not 1000000 bytes but 1048576bytes (220). As of 2014, most standards bodies deprecate this usage in favor of a set of binary prefixes, [1] in which this measurement is designated by the unit mebibyte (MiB). Less common is a measurement that used the megabyte to mean 1000×1024 (1024000) bytes. [1]
(Add new proposals before this section)
There are two things missing from this article in my opinion. 1. Discussion of the difference between megabyte and megabit. I know this seems related more to the general articles on bits and bytes, but there is quite a lot of confusion as to what a 5Mb/s internet connection entails. Many people think that this implies a 5MB/s download speed, and I think a discussion of the distinction here would be useful. Alternatively or in addition, it may be a good idea to merge this article with megabit, since we already have bit and byte for the distinction, and afaik megabit is only used in a couple of contexts.
2. Discussion of Mega base pairs, a frequently used metric in genetics, and variably represented as MB and Mb. This has a direct conversion factor to MB. I can't believe they aren't using Mbp or something but it is what it is. The first time I came across this term I tried to look it up and I am just directed to MB. If no discussion, there should at least be a disambiguation link or whatever it's called at the top of the article to Base_pair#Length_measurements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.97.97.99 ( talk) 22:48, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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There is a problem with the way we write the acronyms of metric multiplier and Binary multipliers. The acronyms of metric multiplier is always written in uppercase, while Binary multipliers are written in uppercase. Example megabyte is often written MB, but is suppose to be written as mB. Same apply to Kibibyte, instead of writing kB (with small k), write it with a big Letter "K". NOTE: Bytes is always capitalized (B) while Bits is always written in lowercase (b).
The following is how we suppose to write metric multipliers and Binary multipliers:
Metric multipliers: Kilobytes =kB, Megabytes = mB, Giga = gB, Tera = tB
Binary Multipliers: Kibibits = Kib, Mebibits = Meb, Gibibits = Gib, Tebibits = Teb — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shatikajj ( talk • contribs) 16:05, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
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Given there doesn't seem to be an official definition of how many bits in a megabyte or mebibyte anyway how do we really know the capacity? The assumption that 8 bits is in a byte is only for 8 bit byte computers (which is most, but not all). Read wikipedia's own definition of byte and it states there that anywhere from 1 bit to 48 bits have been used in the past for bytes. So, is the capacity of a Megabyte, in 1 bit bytes or 48 bit bytes? Zhulien ( talk) 9:16, 5 August 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.141.11 ( talk)
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Discussion about centralization took place at Talk:Binary prefix.
We need to establish a convention for Wikipedia about the word "megabyte" because of the conflicting definitions, or else we cannot ever use the word. Should we go with SI, i.e. 106 bytes, and then use the new MiB for 220 bytes? AxelBoldt, Friday, April 26, 2002
If we accept this convention for the word "megabyte", we then should do the same for "kilobyte", i.e. 103 bytes and kiB for 210 bytes, too. I know children look rather confused when I explain to them that km is a 1000 m, while kB is 1024 bytes, because computers work better with binary numbers... Maria Renee Jenkins, Sunday, April 28, 2002
It is our task to follow standards, not ignore them. The plain reality is, majority usage for MB is the binary MB, and I ain't talking about a small majority either. The fact that "there are 1024 somethingorothers in a KB" is one of the very few things that Joe Average computer user really does understand. And where did this Wikipedia "policy" come from all of a sudden? It's a really bad idea. Tannin 13:18, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I picked the "policy" since after my question above, nobody expressed an opinion either way for quite some time. The policy does not ignore standards, but follows them. I agree with your assessment of majority usage, but I don't think it is a large majority: the average computer user encounters megabytes in four contexts:
Decimal megabytes are used in two of the four contexts. If you prefer we pick the opposite policy, then you need to invent a name for 106 bytes, and you need to make the case why Wikipedia should ignore international standards in favor of this new name. AxelBoldt 17:14, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)
A vote has been started on whether Wikipedia should use these prefixes all the time, only in highly technical contexts, or never. - Omegatron 14:50, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
After some double-checking and extensive web searching, it appears that the overwhelming majority consider a MegaByte to be a binary million, i.e. 10^20. As far as I can see, only hard drive and floppy drive manufacturers use a decimal million (10^6), primarily for marketing/misleading reasons. example. I've worked in IT for 10 years, and I've never even heard of a Mebibyte. Regards, -- Rebroad 19:58, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Just realised that this article has been misleading since May 2003 ( see) when the more commonly used usage was moved to 2nd in the list. -- Rebroad 20:06, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This was pretty clearly not NPOV, reproducing the "it's a conspiracy by hard drive manufacturers" line. I've added some unambiguous cases--for instance, the CD standard uses base 2, whereas the DVD standards use base 10. I've also tried to make it clear that hard drive manufacturers almost always use base 10, while OS software and humans mostly use base 2. As a final note, I've added a comment about MHz to go along with the discussion of Mb, making it clear that although people measure RAM capacity in base-2, they measure RAM speed in base 10. Now, can we all switch to SI and stop being needlessly confusing? Please? Metamatic 21:05, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't think the "Megabytes in Use" section is very useful, particularly the part about a megaybte storing roughly one book, 100 small images, or 1 minute of audio. Given that books come in all sizes, designs, and point sizes, this comparison is virtually useless. 100 small images? How small? JPEG? GIF? PNG? TIFF? 1 minute of audio as mp3 at 128kbit is indeed roughly 1 MB. As a WAV file, it's 10 MB however. I think this part should either be removed or replaced with a more clearly defined standard of measurement. pogo, June 2005
A definition of the IEC proposal on the NIST does not, in itself, constitute advocacy of adoption, nor does it necessarily represent an official endorsement of the standard.
I refer you to the actual text appearing on the single page at the NIST that touches on the topic [3] (which, incidently, has an unclear authorship date). For example (emphasis mine):
I'd be interested in any references to actual, recent, implemented use of the newer terms in NIST activities... Just as a point of reference, note also that NIST is a non-regulatory federal agency... - Liberty 04:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Sounds like an endorsement to me... — Omegatron 04:48, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
The facts on the ground are that the largest OSes (Microsoft's, POSIX (Unix, BSD, Linux, OS X...) use the binary system, and this it the computer arena where people most often come in contact with these metrics. At some (most?) CPUs run at binary-based speeds, e.g. the first 65c02 was 1.024 MHz, as I recall. Changed the page to reflect that.
Why is there a link to a picture of flies having sex?
Someone inserted and someone reverted:
Let's discuss this before putting it back in production. I'll state my objects to the addition first:
The entire addition seems to be an objection to the use of megabyte with supporting argument. It's taking a position and promoting a particular POV. It might be a common POV, but "common" isn't necessarily "neutral". I vote to strike the edit. -- JJLatWiki 16:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I've again removed the sentence "So, technically, it is the operating system that creates the confusion, rather than the hard disk vendor." This sentence implies that the hard disk vendor is more correct than the operating system vendor in their choice of units, which cannot be established without the implied POV that the SI units are better than binary units. JulesH 14:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Am I the only one to get the irony that physics now thinks in terms of bits, at Planck scales? 67.161.157.179 ( talk) 10:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
"In the past few years, standards and government authorities including IEC, IEEE, EU, and NIST, have addressed this ambiguity by promoting the use of megabyte to describe strictly 1000² bytes and "mebibyte" to describe 1024² bytes."
This is unclear as to when "the past few years" is. 20 years down the line, it certainly won't be true. Does anyone know when IEC, IEEE, EU, and NIST began to promote the use of these terms? If so, it should be added in the article. Meviin 01:31, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm very disappointed to find something so stupid on Wikipedia; every child in computer science learns that 1 Megabyte = 1024 Kilobytes, it's widely accepted in the computer science community to count in 1024 (2^10), Microsoft Windows & Linux use it to show storage capacities. So where does this 1000 come from ? stupid, stupid, stupid. Maybe it's better to throw wikipedia to the garbage can and buy a real encyclopedia.
~~Marc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.197.65.107 ( talk) 18:12, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
The way I see it there isn't much confusion, either you know why there are two definitions and apply them according to the circumstances... Or you have no idea so it either a. shouldn't matter, or b. you learn what the situation is. People who bitch and moan that hard drive manufacturers are ripping them off are using phony naivety to get all worked up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.198.102 ( talk)
We have the SI, which is very well established. As a standards committee we have ISO, which is THE authority on units and their naming. I think it's a BAD idea to settle these things on the web, by voting, where every TD&H can yell something. ISO cannot define kilo to be anything else than 1000 anymore, so in support of their inevitable decision:
1: Kilo = 1000 was first. Us computer guys /gals misused it FIRST, to mean 1024. So let's not keep investing in a lost cause, admit the error and correct it as soon as we can.
2: Users, in the age of terabyte disks and gigabyte memory, don't really care if their memory is a few percent larger or smaller than stated.
3: We can use mega=1000000 and leave mebibi etc for specialists and spec sheets.
4: What is the problem of printing "1.024 kB" ?
Erik6000 (
talk)
08:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Kbrose has been making bold revisions to the article without discussion, and I've reverted twice. The essay was supposed to be WP:BRD, not WP:BRRRRRD. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:10, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Any objections ? Megapixie ( talk) 09:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
- I browsed to this page hoping to quickly clarify a simple and straightforward problem and instead stumbled across this wearisome, abstract from someone's Master thesis. I became mired therein. This page is uselessly tortuous. Please remember that such a commonplace subject as this is likely to draw many people for perfectly mundane reasons. Please modify the article so that it responds to simple, superficial inquiries (suh as my own) as well as to more indepth inquiries. Thank you. (Have not logged on in a few years)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.129.108.112 ( talk) 20:46, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Anyone who has worked in the computer and networking industries long enough should not have much of a problem understanding which means which. Bandwidth is in metric bits, raw HDD capacity is in metric bytes, and memory is in binary bytes. If I tell people (who are confused) how to differentiate I advise them to use the following:
"m" = 1000 (smaller sum), metric "M" = 1024 (larger sum), binary "b" = bit (usually 1/8th of a byte) "B" = byte
If this makes sense to anyone, bandwidth would be in "mb", raw HDD capacity "mB", and memory "MB". It makes more sense than making up what sounds like computer "baby talk".
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Wdl71 ( talk • contribs) 16:34, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I doubt that this will ever change/be sorted out. Everyone in the IT, except for hard disk manufacturers, uses Megabyte/Gigabyte in the classic sense - and will keep doing so because it simply doesn't make any sense to change it. Hard disk manufacturers will keep selling their stuff with the artificial definition because it makes their drives look bigger. I don't see any way how this could be changed/solved. The so called "standard" is no standard because the majority blatantly ignores it and goes for the definition that has been de-facto in place for tenths of years longer. I actually find the Wikipedia article pretty good because it clearly points out the difference between artificial definition and reality. Lodan ( talk) 05:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
It can contain a value of 1,000,000 or 1,048,572. How can something equal two values? A Megabyte equals 1048572. Do not use the back of a HDD box which contains *advertising* as a way to prove it equals something less. Otherwise I would believe 'coke is it'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.124.36 ( talk) 22:54, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
This is absolutely retarded, you need to consult CS and EE textbooks to see what a megabyte actually is, and it's 1024 kilobytes, where a kilobyte is 1024 bytes (not 1000 bytes). Megabyte is not used to mean two different values. It is however used by marketing and advertising people and idiots who don't know what they're talking about. It doesn't matter very much when you're looking at a hard drive box, but these are not the actual values as they are defined in computer science and engineering textbooks, which should be given deference over anything else in this case. Furthermore, these are not fucking SI quantities. SI quantities and decimal bases are great for physics, but they are not useful everywhere, and as a result CS and EE use a binary base, just like they use a binary log. Get your fucking facts straight, this has brought Wikipedia credibility down in my eyes.
And yes, the big M is for 1024 KB, where K is 1024 B and B is a byte and the little m is for 1000kb, the little k is for 1000 bits, these are used as well and that is how they are differentiated, there is sometimes a need, usually in networks, to use decimal and this is how it is done.
Thank you, now go punch yourself in the face, whichever dumb ass or dumb asses wrote this article and thought it was actually OK.-- 66.68.84.105 ( talk) 05:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
IMO, this and all of the articles related to memory capacities should be rewritten. Despite what the article says, if you ask most technical people they will tell you that a MB is 1024*1024 bytes. They will also tell you that Mb is 1000*1000 bits. The usefulness of base decimal arithmetic is not universal, for example the use of a binary logarithm is quite common when discussing algorithms. Even though Mega- is an SI term, it shouldn't be Wikipedia's job to dictate that it is exclusive to SI measurements, Wikipedia should fairly document what the term "megabyte" has been used for, lest readers be confused when they encounter a situation that contradicts the reality that Wikipedia would have them believe: that mebibyte is a term that is actually used in practice and is useful (I've never seen this term used) and that megabyte really is predominantly associated with 1000*1000 bytes.
At the very least, the use of MB as 2^20 bytes deserves a significant portion of this article and the proposed standard of MB as 10^6 bytes should be documented as such - a proposed standard instead of having readers believe what is actually not true. I think the idea of mebibyte, even though I disagree with it, is OK to document, but this and the other articles seem to me to be written in a way that claims that these terms are simply the end all and be all of memory sizes when that simply isn't the case.
Also, to preface the definition of megabyte in the article with "The term "megabyte" is ambiguous because it is commonly used to mean either 10002 bytes or 10242 bytes." is unnecessary. Instead of saying that the term "megabyte" is ambiguous, simply state the different uses and contexts where each use might occur and probably some information on which terms are more common and the instances where certain terms might be more likely.
-- Rahennig ( talk) 18:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree so I made some changes that you suggested. Glider87 ( talk) 14:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Alan.A.Mick ( talk) 21:19, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Just to chime in, the context in which mega(byte,bit) is commonely used with the decimal base is electrical engineering where data communications or transfers is the context. The context in which the binary base is used is in computer science and engineering where memory size, address or capacity (either volatile or nonvolitile, backing or primary) is the context. I work as a software engineer in space applications (satellites) where I often deal with both contexts. When the wiki first introduced readers to the membibyte and related terms, some "important people" pointed it out as posibly being useful. I tried using it both internally and in presentations to organizations such as NASA and the IAF, and it inverablly caused confusion. Nobody (all highly technical and fully immersed in this field) was familiar with the "mebibyte" terminology. Noone else used it. I stoped using it. If the base is important or ambigous, I always just put (2^20) or (10^6) in parens to claify. Actual practitioners who have a very strong interest in precise and unabmigious terminolgy just do not use the "mebibyte" terminology.
This article is a bunch of POV-pushing crap why are so many people like crap!. Some of the I.P.s active here might be the same old ones who have been banned because they couldn’t stop advocating that the world adopt the IEC prefixes (MiB and KiB). This article is in need of a serious rewrite. Unfortunately, most of the serious wikipedians just roll their eyeballs at this article and give up on it because of what the I.P.s are up to. What a mess. Greg L ( talk) 21:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Megabytes being 1024 kilobyte may be confusing for people coming from the field of science where the prefix kilo conventionally means 1000 and all mathematics is done in base 10; but there is a reason why, in the field of computing, kilo conventionally means 1024. It's all to do with how data is stored and how processors compute data. Processors compute data in powers of 2. A system bus carries information in powers of 2. Not because we're trying to be difficult in the computing industry but because data is easiest to store, compress and work with when represented in binary. As such computer memory needs to be in multiples of this fundamental unit. So, as a programmer, you need to construct your code to work with these fundamental units. As a computer engineer, you need to create your hardware to work with these fundamental units. For instance, RAM is always in multiples of 1024 bytes because it has to be. You could store your data next to a decimal scale but if you did then the processor would constantly have to swap data in and out through the bus and from memory and from slower storage mediums such as a hard drive. Take a 64 bit bus, and you've got a 128 bit file (16 bytes). Easy peasy, you pass it in in two chunks and none of the data is redundant. Say you had a file of 100 bits. You pass it in two chunks and you've got 28 bits of redundant data. It creates a bottle kneck in the processing of the code. So all data is stored and worked on in multiples of 8. Say then you wanted to know how big a file is. Say you wanted to know how many thousands of bytes a file is made from. The calculation to do this is more complex (and consequently takes more time and processing power) than it is to work out how many thousand and twenty fours of bytes a file is made. This is why in the industry of computing, data is worked out in mutiples of 1024. It takes less time to process the file size. Not only that but all files are made up of multiples of 8 bits. So every file size is divisible by 8 without leaving a remainder. This allows you to store the file size in bytes as an integer, and to convert the value to kilobytes, megabytes, gigabytes, etc with a simple and quick bit-shift operation (the quickest operation there is). If the convention in computing was to represent file sizes in decimals that would mean calling on the Arthmatic Logic Unit, a much lengthier operation, every time we wanted to convert from 1000 to 1000x1000, and so on. From the stand point of any computer professional, there is zero value in enforcing a decimal size convention. It ignores the fundamental unit on which binary computers operate. It ignores the fundamental benefits of storing data next to powers of 2. The only people who benefit from using 1000 over 1024 are sellers of hard disk drives who can flog you a "1TB" HDD which is actually 1000*1000*1000*8 which is 70GB less in size than it should be. The international standards organisation is incorrect. Unlike science which is primarily based in base 10 math, computing has adopted the convention of base 2 math. To computer professionals it will ALWAYS be 1024 because it would be counter-productive to work from a convension of 1000. This article sould primarily reflect the convention of the industry which coined the term. With smaller sections on the pedantry of a standards organisation, the false advertising of hardware vendors and the voices of a lay mob. 94.197.127.59 ( talk) 18:48, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
In an attempt to resolve this ambiguity, the IEC adopted (and other orgs approved) what are now referred to as the IEC binary prefixes, including "Mebi" for 1024 squared. Thus " mebibyte" or its abbreviation "MiB" was to be used in, for example, specifications of RAM capacity, which traditionally used "megabyte" to mean 1024 squared. However, actual use of these binary prefixes is very uncommon.
It's just wrong. http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/crd/Localgov/Second%20Level%20pages/indiana_pi_bill.htm 94.197.127.241 ( talk) 01:00, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
Although the ISQ standard for megabyte is 1,000,000 bytes, the JEDEC standard is 1,048,576, and the latter usage is still more common for memory, although memory units as small as a megabyte are uncommon, except in the context above: "Well, for starters, if someone asks me how much memory is available for dynamic instances of object type X, and I answer two megabytes, then they will go away thinking that they can create 2048 dynamic objects each using 1024 bytes of memory... and they'll be correct. " — Arthur Rubin (talk) 07:47, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
I don't know how much clearer the record can be, when even JEDEC states explicitly that the binary interpretation is deprecated. Silencing the fact, and erasing it from documentation make no sense. JEDEC does not forbid the incorrect usage obviously, as they know that manufacturers have large investments in equipment that is expense to retool, and therefore have long lead times for such changes. Some manufacturers apparently already are converting, with dual labeling. Yes, it is indeed standards bodies that deprecated usage, not the public. The public just follows suit, which may take a long time, that I grant. It is rather mind boggling how backwards these editor think, to keep the incorrect usages in place for no obvious benefit. It only prolongs the confusion aspect in the general population. Surely knowledgeable folks know very well the difference and anyone implementing software based on specs these days, examines which meaning is the correct one to use. To be honest, for knowledgable people these day, the uncertainty of which units are implied is indeed greater than ever, one can never be sure what is meant without examination, but this should be only a transition period. Prolonging the incorrect usage make no sense, because the train to conversion has been on track for 15 years. There is no reversal, and it is time that these refuseniks see the light. Kbrose ( talk) 19:02, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
However, in the computer and information technology fields, several other definitions are used. A common usage is to designate one megabyte as 1048576bytes (220), a measurement that conveniently expresses the binary multiples inherent in digital computer memory architectures. Less common is a measurement that used the megabyte to mean 1000×1024 (1024000) bytes. [1]
However, in the computer and information technology fields, several other definitions are used that arose for historical reasons of convenience. A common usage has been to designate one megabyte as 1048576bytes (220), a measurement that conveniently expresses the binary multiples inherent in digital computer memory architectures. However, most standards bodies have deprecated this usage in favor of a set of binary prefixes, [1] in which this measurement is designated by the unit mebibyte (MiB). Less common is a measurement that used the megabyte to mean 1000×1024 (1024000) bytes. [1]
However, in the computer and information technology fields, other definitions are used. A common usage is to designate one megabyte as 1048576bytes (220), a measurement that conveniently expresses the binary multiples inherent in digital computer memory architectures. However, most standards bodies have deprecated this usage in favor of a set of binary prefixes, [1] in which this measurement is designated by the unit mebibyte (MiB). Less common is a measurement that used the megabyte to mean 1000×1024 (1024000) bytes. [1]
I see no reason to change from the new version, as it accurately reflects the situation and history. Kbrose ( talk) 19:54, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
However, in the computer and information technology fields, other definitions are used. In the 1980s, when the first hard drives were developed, the megabyte meant one million bytes. When semiconductor memory first exceeded 1 megabyte, due to the binary multiples inherent in digital computer memory architectures, it became common to use this term to mean not 1000000 bytes but 1048576bytes (220). As of 2014, most standards bodies deprecate this usage in favor of a set of binary prefixes, [1] in which this measurement is designated by the unit mebibyte (MiB). Less common is a measurement that used the megabyte to mean 1000×1024 (1024000) bytes. [1]
(Add new proposals before this section)
There are two things missing from this article in my opinion. 1. Discussion of the difference between megabyte and megabit. I know this seems related more to the general articles on bits and bytes, but there is quite a lot of confusion as to what a 5Mb/s internet connection entails. Many people think that this implies a 5MB/s download speed, and I think a discussion of the distinction here would be useful. Alternatively or in addition, it may be a good idea to merge this article with megabit, since we already have bit and byte for the distinction, and afaik megabit is only used in a couple of contexts.
2. Discussion of Mega base pairs, a frequently used metric in genetics, and variably represented as MB and Mb. This has a direct conversion factor to MB. I can't believe they aren't using Mbp or something but it is what it is. The first time I came across this term I tried to look it up and I am just directed to MB. If no discussion, there should at least be a disambiguation link or whatever it's called at the top of the article to Base_pair#Length_measurements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.97.97.99 ( talk) 22:48, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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There is a problem with the way we write the acronyms of metric multiplier and Binary multipliers. The acronyms of metric multiplier is always written in uppercase, while Binary multipliers are written in uppercase. Example megabyte is often written MB, but is suppose to be written as mB. Same apply to Kibibyte, instead of writing kB (with small k), write it with a big Letter "K". NOTE: Bytes is always capitalized (B) while Bits is always written in lowercase (b).
The following is how we suppose to write metric multipliers and Binary multipliers:
Metric multipliers: Kilobytes =kB, Megabytes = mB, Giga = gB, Tera = tB
Binary Multipliers: Kibibits = Kib, Mebibits = Meb, Gibibits = Gib, Tebibits = Teb — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shatikajj ( talk • contribs) 16:05, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
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Given there doesn't seem to be an official definition of how many bits in a megabyte or mebibyte anyway how do we really know the capacity? The assumption that 8 bits is in a byte is only for 8 bit byte computers (which is most, but not all). Read wikipedia's own definition of byte and it states there that anywhere from 1 bit to 48 bits have been used in the past for bytes. So, is the capacity of a Megabyte, in 1 bit bytes or 48 bit bytes? Zhulien ( talk) 9:16, 5 August 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.141.11 ( talk)
The redirect
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redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 July 10 § M,egabyte until a consensus is reached.
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21:26, 10 July 2023 (UTC)