![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
CuriousGeorge16. Peer reviewers:
Schmids.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I applied protection again, due to edit warring. Can we not do that please? Guy ( help!) 09:16, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Right now the history section starts with...
...which is sourced to McKenzie's book Treat Your Own Back. from "Spinal Publications".
I don't have a problem with a history based upon a primary source talking about itself, but I would like to be able to read that source and confirm that is says what we say it says. I would also like to attribute any claims about the history of the method. I know that there are some practitioners and patients reading this, so if someone would be so kind as to email me a copy of the section in the book where McKenzie talks about the history that would help. You can reach me at [ /info/en/?search=Special:EmailUser/Guy_Macon ]. Any format I can read is fine. If all you have is a printed copy and a digital camera, attach pictures, but make sure the text is readable. Or, if anyone knows where I can see the contents of those pages online, please send me a link. Thanks! -- Guy Macon ( talk) 10:53, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey, the McKenzie Method is a trademarked name with a capital M in Method. Can this be updated (page is locked) and this page should be a redirect to McKenzie Method, not the other way around. Hank McAwesome ( talk) 03:19, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
There’s clear bias in this article, but not from the people trying to add new information, the bias is coming from the editors that took an article’s conclusion that "There is moderate- to high-quality evidence that MDT is not superior to other rehabilitation interventions for reducing pain and disability in patients with acute LBP. In patients with chronic LBP, there is moderate- to high-quality evidence that MDT is superior to other rehabilitation interventions for reducing pain and disability" and interpreted it as "There is weak evidence for the effectiveness of the Method's use for treating lower back pain". This statement makes it sound like MDT is less effective than other methods, when what the journal article is actually saying is that the method is as effective as other methods at reducing pain and disability in patients with acute LBP, and more effective than other methods at reducing pain and disability in patients with chronic LBP.
This appears to me like a deliberate attempt to misinterpret the conclusions of a study, and I believe it clearly shows bias, and potentially a conflict of interest or some sort of personal agenda. Some of these editors have been edit-warring for months, which leads me to believe that they're letting their personal animosity towards the people trying to update the article cloud their judgement. The fact that someone with power is letting his personal feelings affect the information presented in a Wikipedia article on a scientific matter is troubling. Looking through the Talk section I can see several personal attacks being thrown around, which are not only unprofessional, they betray a lack of objectivity from these editors.
I would urge the editors currently involved in this relentless edit-warring to recuse themselves and allow a new unbiased editor, someone completely unrelated to any of them who won't simply stick up for his buddies, to look at the new evidence being proposed and help guide the person trying to add the new information so that it meets all of Wikipedia's guidelines. Choosing to remain constantly reverting edits, deliberately misrepresenting findings, and bordeline bullying someone who is simply trying to improve an article shows clear bias. SantiagoRamosPhysio ( talk) 17:45, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
"You may not be aware of your own unconscious bias"By definition people aren't aware of unconscious bias. However, any neutral observer is likely to think bias more likely in a WP:SPA with a conflict of interest, then somebody with a long record of improving article across the encyclopedia, and who has no financial interest in boosting the Mckenzie method, as your cherry picked excerpt would do. Alexbrn ( talk) 14:37, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
"By definition people aren't aware of unconscious bias."And do you know the definition of "pedantic"? I obviously know that unconscious bias is unconscious, but people can be either aware or unaware that unconscious bias exists, and they can be self-aware enough to recognise that they may suffer from unconscious bias. By saying you may not be aware of it I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, although perhaps you are aware of your own bias and are acting maliciously, which is of course much worse.
I agree with these remarks, the editing seems biased, opinionated. Also, why is there almost exclusive focus on the back and so little mention of the extremities? In particular I would like to hear more about shoulder treatments for example. Sjohnsun ( talk) 14:50, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
CuriousGeorge16. Peer reviewers:
Schmids.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I applied protection again, due to edit warring. Can we not do that please? Guy ( help!) 09:16, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Right now the history section starts with...
...which is sourced to McKenzie's book Treat Your Own Back. from "Spinal Publications".
I don't have a problem with a history based upon a primary source talking about itself, but I would like to be able to read that source and confirm that is says what we say it says. I would also like to attribute any claims about the history of the method. I know that there are some practitioners and patients reading this, so if someone would be so kind as to email me a copy of the section in the book where McKenzie talks about the history that would help. You can reach me at [ /info/en/?search=Special:EmailUser/Guy_Macon ]. Any format I can read is fine. If all you have is a printed copy and a digital camera, attach pictures, but make sure the text is readable. Or, if anyone knows where I can see the contents of those pages online, please send me a link. Thanks! -- Guy Macon ( talk) 10:53, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey, the McKenzie Method is a trademarked name with a capital M in Method. Can this be updated (page is locked) and this page should be a redirect to McKenzie Method, not the other way around. Hank McAwesome ( talk) 03:19, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
There’s clear bias in this article, but not from the people trying to add new information, the bias is coming from the editors that took an article’s conclusion that "There is moderate- to high-quality evidence that MDT is not superior to other rehabilitation interventions for reducing pain and disability in patients with acute LBP. In patients with chronic LBP, there is moderate- to high-quality evidence that MDT is superior to other rehabilitation interventions for reducing pain and disability" and interpreted it as "There is weak evidence for the effectiveness of the Method's use for treating lower back pain". This statement makes it sound like MDT is less effective than other methods, when what the journal article is actually saying is that the method is as effective as other methods at reducing pain and disability in patients with acute LBP, and more effective than other methods at reducing pain and disability in patients with chronic LBP.
This appears to me like a deliberate attempt to misinterpret the conclusions of a study, and I believe it clearly shows bias, and potentially a conflict of interest or some sort of personal agenda. Some of these editors have been edit-warring for months, which leads me to believe that they're letting their personal animosity towards the people trying to update the article cloud their judgement. The fact that someone with power is letting his personal feelings affect the information presented in a Wikipedia article on a scientific matter is troubling. Looking through the Talk section I can see several personal attacks being thrown around, which are not only unprofessional, they betray a lack of objectivity from these editors.
I would urge the editors currently involved in this relentless edit-warring to recuse themselves and allow a new unbiased editor, someone completely unrelated to any of them who won't simply stick up for his buddies, to look at the new evidence being proposed and help guide the person trying to add the new information so that it meets all of Wikipedia's guidelines. Choosing to remain constantly reverting edits, deliberately misrepresenting findings, and bordeline bullying someone who is simply trying to improve an article shows clear bias. SantiagoRamosPhysio ( talk) 17:45, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
"You may not be aware of your own unconscious bias"By definition people aren't aware of unconscious bias. However, any neutral observer is likely to think bias more likely in a WP:SPA with a conflict of interest, then somebody with a long record of improving article across the encyclopedia, and who has no financial interest in boosting the Mckenzie method, as your cherry picked excerpt would do. Alexbrn ( talk) 14:37, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
"By definition people aren't aware of unconscious bias."And do you know the definition of "pedantic"? I obviously know that unconscious bias is unconscious, but people can be either aware or unaware that unconscious bias exists, and they can be self-aware enough to recognise that they may suffer from unconscious bias. By saying you may not be aware of it I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, although perhaps you are aware of your own bias and are acting maliciously, which is of course much worse.
I agree with these remarks, the editing seems biased, opinionated. Also, why is there almost exclusive focus on the back and so little mention of the extremities? In particular I would like to hear more about shoulder treatments for example. Sjohnsun ( talk) 14:50, 29 November 2021 (UTC)