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I think the section heading "Fires" should be removed. It is not helpful in organizing the article; per WP:MOS the purpose of section headings is to divide the content into sections within a hierarchy. A section heading that includes the entire contents of the article does not do this and is not helpful to the reader. It would be like calling the entire contents of a book "Chapter One". If no one objects I am going to remove the section heading "Fires" and restore the actual fires as the primary section headings. -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:01, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
If the new name "San Diego Complex Fire" catches on, we should consider renaming this article to that name. At this point the media have not picked it up (or have picked it up wrong, saying it is synonymous with the Poinsettia Fire), so it is not yet in common enough usage to use as the article name. But if it catches on it would be a better name than "May 2014 San Diego County Wildfires". -- MelanieN ( talk) 20:30, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
BTW I am not entirely convinced by the official position that every one of these fires was caused by the Bernardo Fire. Earlier it was said that the Poinsettia Fire was caused by a truck fire, but now the same (updated) reference says the cause is unknown. Also, we haven't mentioned this story in the article and it may not be relevant, but there were a couple of teenagers arrested for arson; they were caught setting small brush fires that were quickly extinguished; at the time of their arrest they were not blamed for any of the wildfires. Anyhow I think we may need to wait for the investigations to be sure of the various causes. The current reporting in the article seems about right. -- MelanieN ( talk) 22:25, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Let's be clear about which ones actually ARE regarded as part of the Complex. So far the only source of information we have is that map, right? I haven't been able to find the term anyplace else, including the Cal Fire incident reporting system. The map identifies the Bernardo, Highway, Tomahawk, Poinsettia, River, and Aurora fires as part of the San Diego Complex. That's only six but the article says nine; what am I missing? Some fires in the article may be misidentified as part of the Complex, and that should be corrected. -- MelanieN ( talk) 15:03, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
FYI, the term San Diego Complex was used by CAL FIRE to identify all the concurrent operations under CAL FIRE command. It implies absolutely nothing about the source of the fires and whether they are related or not, but simply identifies the fires that need coordination of available resources in the region. This is why when CAL FIRE took over command from Carlsbad Fire Department over the Poinsettia Fire, they started referring to it as part of the SD Complex fire. Some of the smaller fires remained under local fire department command, and were therefore never made part of the SD Complex (for example the River Fire in Oceanside) Officially, the causes of all but the Bernardo fire are currently still under investigation. It is pretty much physically impossible for all of them to be caused by embers from the Bernardo fire however. Some of the fires which are part of the complex (Tomahawk and Highway) started over 25 miles north of the Bernardo fire, and could not possibly have been started by embers carried by the wind from the Bernardo fire given the wind direction at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:C4A0:4501:14B0:AC3F:437C:EA56 ( talk) 01:29, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
@LightandDark, you are the very LAST person who should be telling people to "stop changing this" and warning them that reversions could get them into "deep trouble" - because you have reverted me and other editors dozens of times over the last few days. You do not WP:OWN this article; what goes into the article is determined by consensus; but you have insisted on inserting your own version and interpretation on several controversial matters. I have expressed skepticism about some of this information, including the notion that other fires were caused by the Bernardo Fire, and especially the poorly documented "San Diego Complex Fire" name. But I have not changed it, because I am just one person and I do not own the article either. But now we have a second opinion that there are problems with this information, so we need to take a fresh look at it.
LightandDark, I must now turn your own warning against you: When I or someone else makes these changes, do not revert them. These changes are supported by consensus. You should not reinsert your version of the information unless you get consensus here first.-- MelanieN ( talk) 06:34, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
Let's not get into an edit war over this, but "heat" is not appropriate for describing the SOURCE of a fire. "Source" means IGNITION source, as you can see in the infobox. "Heat" does not ignite fires, it just spreads them. There is always a source of ignition. When officials issue a report on the cause of the fire, it will say "natural" (such as lightning) or "accidental" (such as a vehicle fire) or "intentional" (arson). It will NEVER say the cause of a fire was "heat". And they haven't said so for any of the fires listed here, or at "2014 California wildfires". -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:21, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
It seems like Camp Pendleton is officially called it San Mateo on their official update page. http://www.mccscp.com/brushfire. Should we change the heading? I see it listed with the formerly known section on the wiki page, but it seems to be the current name. Ghostkrashers ( talk) 19:03, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that the Santee fire described here was ever named the Sycamore Fire? or escalated to the level of a named fire? I can't find that it was. If it wasn't, it should be given a paragraph in the "other fires" section, not given a section and name of its own. -- MelanieN ( talk) 13:03, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
IMO the See Also list has gotten way out of control. There is no reason to list links to other unrelated fires, or to lists of fires in unrelated years. I think the list should be pruned down to just List of California wildfires, 2014 California wildfires, and (possibly) Cedar Fire since it is the other well known "San Diego wildfire". Thoughts? -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:11, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
@ LightandDark2000: Putting this conversation here so that it is visible to others, not just you and I. The "log" you are referencing is not a valid reference (see WP:DEEPLINK). It list all the active fires that are CURRENTLY burning. As in 2015... The reference I added is the after action report for the May 2014 outbreak. -- Zackmann08 ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 00:39, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
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The contents of the Bernardo Fire page were merged into May 2014 San Diego County wildfires on April 16, 2024. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
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content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I think the section heading "Fires" should be removed. It is not helpful in organizing the article; per WP:MOS the purpose of section headings is to divide the content into sections within a hierarchy. A section heading that includes the entire contents of the article does not do this and is not helpful to the reader. It would be like calling the entire contents of a book "Chapter One". If no one objects I am going to remove the section heading "Fires" and restore the actual fires as the primary section headings. -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:01, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
If the new name "San Diego Complex Fire" catches on, we should consider renaming this article to that name. At this point the media have not picked it up (or have picked it up wrong, saying it is synonymous with the Poinsettia Fire), so it is not yet in common enough usage to use as the article name. But if it catches on it would be a better name than "May 2014 San Diego County Wildfires". -- MelanieN ( talk) 20:30, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
BTW I am not entirely convinced by the official position that every one of these fires was caused by the Bernardo Fire. Earlier it was said that the Poinsettia Fire was caused by a truck fire, but now the same (updated) reference says the cause is unknown. Also, we haven't mentioned this story in the article and it may not be relevant, but there were a couple of teenagers arrested for arson; they were caught setting small brush fires that were quickly extinguished; at the time of their arrest they were not blamed for any of the wildfires. Anyhow I think we may need to wait for the investigations to be sure of the various causes. The current reporting in the article seems about right. -- MelanieN ( talk) 22:25, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Let's be clear about which ones actually ARE regarded as part of the Complex. So far the only source of information we have is that map, right? I haven't been able to find the term anyplace else, including the Cal Fire incident reporting system. The map identifies the Bernardo, Highway, Tomahawk, Poinsettia, River, and Aurora fires as part of the San Diego Complex. That's only six but the article says nine; what am I missing? Some fires in the article may be misidentified as part of the Complex, and that should be corrected. -- MelanieN ( talk) 15:03, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
FYI, the term San Diego Complex was used by CAL FIRE to identify all the concurrent operations under CAL FIRE command. It implies absolutely nothing about the source of the fires and whether they are related or not, but simply identifies the fires that need coordination of available resources in the region. This is why when CAL FIRE took over command from Carlsbad Fire Department over the Poinsettia Fire, they started referring to it as part of the SD Complex fire. Some of the smaller fires remained under local fire department command, and were therefore never made part of the SD Complex (for example the River Fire in Oceanside) Officially, the causes of all but the Bernardo fire are currently still under investigation. It is pretty much physically impossible for all of them to be caused by embers from the Bernardo fire however. Some of the fires which are part of the complex (Tomahawk and Highway) started over 25 miles north of the Bernardo fire, and could not possibly have been started by embers carried by the wind from the Bernardo fire given the wind direction at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:C4A0:4501:14B0:AC3F:437C:EA56 ( talk) 01:29, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
@LightandDark, you are the very LAST person who should be telling people to "stop changing this" and warning them that reversions could get them into "deep trouble" - because you have reverted me and other editors dozens of times over the last few days. You do not WP:OWN this article; what goes into the article is determined by consensus; but you have insisted on inserting your own version and interpretation on several controversial matters. I have expressed skepticism about some of this information, including the notion that other fires were caused by the Bernardo Fire, and especially the poorly documented "San Diego Complex Fire" name. But I have not changed it, because I am just one person and I do not own the article either. But now we have a second opinion that there are problems with this information, so we need to take a fresh look at it.
LightandDark, I must now turn your own warning against you: When I or someone else makes these changes, do not revert them. These changes are supported by consensus. You should not reinsert your version of the information unless you get consensus here first.-- MelanieN ( talk) 06:34, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
Let's not get into an edit war over this, but "heat" is not appropriate for describing the SOURCE of a fire. "Source" means IGNITION source, as you can see in the infobox. "Heat" does not ignite fires, it just spreads them. There is always a source of ignition. When officials issue a report on the cause of the fire, it will say "natural" (such as lightning) or "accidental" (such as a vehicle fire) or "intentional" (arson). It will NEVER say the cause of a fire was "heat". And they haven't said so for any of the fires listed here, or at "2014 California wildfires". -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:21, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
It seems like Camp Pendleton is officially called it San Mateo on their official update page. http://www.mccscp.com/brushfire. Should we change the heading? I see it listed with the formerly known section on the wiki page, but it seems to be the current name. Ghostkrashers ( talk) 19:03, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that the Santee fire described here was ever named the Sycamore Fire? or escalated to the level of a named fire? I can't find that it was. If it wasn't, it should be given a paragraph in the "other fires" section, not given a section and name of its own. -- MelanieN ( talk) 13:03, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
IMO the See Also list has gotten way out of control. There is no reason to list links to other unrelated fires, or to lists of fires in unrelated years. I think the list should be pruned down to just List of California wildfires, 2014 California wildfires, and (possibly) Cedar Fire since it is the other well known "San Diego wildfire". Thoughts? -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:11, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
@ LightandDark2000: Putting this conversation here so that it is visible to others, not just you and I. The "log" you are referencing is not a valid reference (see WP:DEEPLINK). It list all the active fires that are CURRENTLY burning. As in 2015... The reference I added is the after action report for the May 2014 outbreak. -- Zackmann08 ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 00:39, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
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