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![]() | On 18 January 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Abul Kalam Azad to Maulana Azad. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Needs wikification. And NPOV rewrite. And just plain neutral language (Gandhiji?!). — iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 21:26, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)
NPOV
I am afraid this is a rather unbalanced piece. Azad was no proponent of secularism per se. He was a composite nationalist largely because he was thoroughly discredited through his ill-advised tehreek-e-Hijrat (which finds no critical reference). His opposition to Pakistan was also based out of his own understanding of the Muslim cause. His greatest achievement in politics was Cabinet Mission Plan which was torpedoed by the Congress. 124.109.47.105 ( talk) 05:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
I would disagree with the notion that abul kalaam azad had anything to do with the salafi school of thought
This article - although describies thoroughly Azad a s politicians - definitly lacks discussion of his achievments as religious thinker, fe. his main work Tarjuman al-Quran is not mentioned (we do not have a list of his other books as well, as is the standart in other wikipedia biographical articles).
Why should this article be filed under Islam in India? Azad is of significance to all people of India not just Muslims. Otherwise on this philosophy, articles on Gandhi, Nehru etc. should also be filed under Hinduism in India. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.106.103.254 ( talk) 03:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
It is my first time participating in this topic. I edited this article only once before this and I was only here to correct a spelling mistake (Pashtun was misspelled). It looks like Abdul Kalam Azad's origin is in disbute (between IPs and a Wikipedian). Majority of the sources (net+books) only mention that he was a Bengali Muslim of Afghan origin and that his forefathers came from Herat. Four sources have been provided to prove that his origins were Persian and they all have major issues. Jagoindian - #4 has copied the article from Wikipedia. Source #3 (in German) and #2 are two books/journals, but we don't know where in those sources do they mention anything about Kalam Azad. We only know the title of the sources and that is it. Source #1 is the only source that writes "...was a Bengali Muslim of Afghan (probably Tajik) origins.". I googled Abdul Kalam Azad and I could hardly find any source which mentioned anything about his ethnic origin (whether he was a Pashtun, Persian or Tajik). Majority of the sources only write that he was a Bengali Muslim of Afghan origin and his forefathers came from Herat, Afghanistan - Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad Instituteion of Asian Studies. Therefor, I suggest that we should only add the "Afghan origin" part and leave "Pashtun, Persian and Tajik" out of this article. ( Ketabtoon ( talk) 05:57, 25 January 2010 (UTC))
Neither Afghanistan nor Pushtuns did existed during his ancestors days. Pushtuns were living on Sulaiman Mountains and Pakistan, Wazirista and Ismael Dera Khan. Then, the name of the region was Khorasan (Afghanistan came to birth in 1919 officially and in 1911 unofficially, gave to birth by Russia and primerly by British colonialism, so actually, we have to call him Khorasani). We could use Afghan in the right context if Afghanistan had existed before 100 years ago but not when the land was known as Khorasan and Pushtuns, specially under Babur, lived south of Kabul, which is Waziristan, Baluchistan and Peshawar, Dera Islamel Khan. With best Regards. Khawaran.com and Tajikam.com are created a study on Tajiks/Iranis and Persian-speaking people in general who lived in India and were either politicians or rulers or whatever, supported by E. Iranica and E. Islamica and some own scholars, like Shir Magan Shah Gardezi who already wrote a book. Recognize also the fact, that Pushtuns did never played any role in the modern history of India against British power. That Abul Kalam Azad did not even spoke a word Pushtu, but instead nearly 8 other languages, including the language of his house and ancestors, Persian, is also a point on his origine.-- 94.219.218.233 ( talk) 20:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Afghan is a modern citizenship that did not exist in Herat when Kalam's ancestors lived there. During the Medieval period Afghans were Pashtuns and there is not one source that can prove that there were Pashtun tribes in Herat during Babur and Homayoun's rule.--
Inuit18 (
talk)
20:49, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
The modern concept of the Afghan citizenship did not exist when Azad's forefathers were in Herat. The only way we can add Afghan to this article is to research if Afghan tribes lived in Herat during Babur's rule.--
Inuit18 (
talk)
23:42, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
do you know want academic means? this website might claim he was an Afghan but their claim is not rational since Afghan and Afghanistan did not exist in Herat during Babur's rule. If you find a reliable and academic source that says Afghans lived in Herat during Babur's reign then we will add Afghan.-- Inuit18 ( talk) 03:57, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for this detailed note.
Uvav (
talk) 02:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC)Uvav
Uvav (
talk)
02:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
I find only two issues mainly discussed in the talk page here : 1) whether his ancestry was Pashtun/Afghan etc 2) His affiliation to salafi school and secular credentials
The former can be put in a dual wording sentence (is said to be.....some claim it ...etc) or avoided till the dispute is resolved. Also a disputed or a discuss tag can be put near that section which discusses it. The second needs references.Those who brought up the issue seem to citing their opinions. They don't seem to have quoted any reference.
Tagging an article as disputed just because someone cites their opinion without authentic narratives and a minor dispute about his ethnicity is injustice to the subject. A person so important in history deserves a good article and those with opinions should come up with more sources.Till then I suggest the disputed tags be removed. NMKuttiady ( talk) 09:53, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Maulana Azad was the president of Jamiat-e-Ulema-Hind and therefore his ties with the Deoband Order and religious Muslims were very strong, he himself being very religious. Religious Muslims in any event opposed the creation of Pakistan, especially those Darul Uloom Deoband. The link given does not mention Deoband. 202.59.80.154 ( talk) 08:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
The article " Maulana Abul Kalam Azad: The Man Who Knew The Future Of Pakistan Before Its Creation " is fake. There is no credible source which can date the history of this article to the year 1946. If the interview did occur how come it is never acknowledged by anyone throughout history despite of such precise predictions. More over the predictions seem to precise to possibly be real and seem to be a recent forgery. Also The Man Who Forged An Interview: Shorish Kashmiri's Maulana Azad Hoax is an article which lays out various points and systematically discredits the authenticity of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.175.181 ( talk) 09:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
Actually it was authenticated by a number of authors including MJ Akbar which is quoted in his latest book "TinderBox: The Past and Future of Pakistan". MJ Akbar is a well renowned scholar and historian and also a leading Indian Jounarlist and Director of India Today. His work would be more credible than a blog written by some unknown person. Moreover, most of his "points" have been discredited in the comments itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.34.60.142 ( talk) 04:11, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
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any reference would be appreciated or else the line has to removed
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Maulana Azad/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
A well written article but lacks lots of references. Once those are added one can try for WP:GA?-- Shahab 20:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 20:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 06:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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What changes will done by the molana Abdul Kalam Azad if he will be alive 106.195.70.135 ( talk) 18:48, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 19:44, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
Abul Kalam Azad → Maulana Azad – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Capitals00 ( talk) 19:13, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Also see:
Capitals00 ( talk) 19:09, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
He seemed to have gone through a phase of atheism in his early life as quoted by some sources like these - 1. https://southasia.ucla.edu/history-politics/independent-india/abul-kalam-azad/ 2. https://www.jstor.org/stable/24159314
The second source quotes him as saying - “I was by now a complete atheist. I took great pride in my belief in 'materialism' and 'rationalism' and saw in religion only ignorance and conjecture."
It further says, “This period lasted from 1902 to 1910 i.e. from the age of fourteen to twenty”
I think this deserves a mention in this article. If someone could edit the article to include this, it would be nice. AbdulKareem92 ( talk) 19:06, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
Moulana Abul kalam azad information in urdu 103.164.200.162 ( talk) 17:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Maulana Azad article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 18 January 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Abul Kalam Azad to Maulana Azad. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Needs wikification. And NPOV rewrite. And just plain neutral language (Gandhiji?!). — iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 21:26, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)
NPOV
I am afraid this is a rather unbalanced piece. Azad was no proponent of secularism per se. He was a composite nationalist largely because he was thoroughly discredited through his ill-advised tehreek-e-Hijrat (which finds no critical reference). His opposition to Pakistan was also based out of his own understanding of the Muslim cause. His greatest achievement in politics was Cabinet Mission Plan which was torpedoed by the Congress. 124.109.47.105 ( talk) 05:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
I would disagree with the notion that abul kalaam azad had anything to do with the salafi school of thought
This article - although describies thoroughly Azad a s politicians - definitly lacks discussion of his achievments as religious thinker, fe. his main work Tarjuman al-Quran is not mentioned (we do not have a list of his other books as well, as is the standart in other wikipedia biographical articles).
Why should this article be filed under Islam in India? Azad is of significance to all people of India not just Muslims. Otherwise on this philosophy, articles on Gandhi, Nehru etc. should also be filed under Hinduism in India. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.106.103.254 ( talk) 03:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
It is my first time participating in this topic. I edited this article only once before this and I was only here to correct a spelling mistake (Pashtun was misspelled). It looks like Abdul Kalam Azad's origin is in disbute (between IPs and a Wikipedian). Majority of the sources (net+books) only mention that he was a Bengali Muslim of Afghan origin and that his forefathers came from Herat. Four sources have been provided to prove that his origins were Persian and they all have major issues. Jagoindian - #4 has copied the article from Wikipedia. Source #3 (in German) and #2 are two books/journals, but we don't know where in those sources do they mention anything about Kalam Azad. We only know the title of the sources and that is it. Source #1 is the only source that writes "...was a Bengali Muslim of Afghan (probably Tajik) origins.". I googled Abdul Kalam Azad and I could hardly find any source which mentioned anything about his ethnic origin (whether he was a Pashtun, Persian or Tajik). Majority of the sources only write that he was a Bengali Muslim of Afghan origin and his forefathers came from Herat, Afghanistan - Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad Instituteion of Asian Studies. Therefor, I suggest that we should only add the "Afghan origin" part and leave "Pashtun, Persian and Tajik" out of this article. ( Ketabtoon ( talk) 05:57, 25 January 2010 (UTC))
Neither Afghanistan nor Pushtuns did existed during his ancestors days. Pushtuns were living on Sulaiman Mountains and Pakistan, Wazirista and Ismael Dera Khan. Then, the name of the region was Khorasan (Afghanistan came to birth in 1919 officially and in 1911 unofficially, gave to birth by Russia and primerly by British colonialism, so actually, we have to call him Khorasani). We could use Afghan in the right context if Afghanistan had existed before 100 years ago but not when the land was known as Khorasan and Pushtuns, specially under Babur, lived south of Kabul, which is Waziristan, Baluchistan and Peshawar, Dera Islamel Khan. With best Regards. Khawaran.com and Tajikam.com are created a study on Tajiks/Iranis and Persian-speaking people in general who lived in India and were either politicians or rulers or whatever, supported by E. Iranica and E. Islamica and some own scholars, like Shir Magan Shah Gardezi who already wrote a book. Recognize also the fact, that Pushtuns did never played any role in the modern history of India against British power. That Abul Kalam Azad did not even spoke a word Pushtu, but instead nearly 8 other languages, including the language of his house and ancestors, Persian, is also a point on his origine.-- 94.219.218.233 ( talk) 20:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Afghan is a modern citizenship that did not exist in Herat when Kalam's ancestors lived there. During the Medieval period Afghans were Pashtuns and there is not one source that can prove that there were Pashtun tribes in Herat during Babur and Homayoun's rule.--
Inuit18 (
talk)
20:49, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
The modern concept of the Afghan citizenship did not exist when Azad's forefathers were in Herat. The only way we can add Afghan to this article is to research if Afghan tribes lived in Herat during Babur's rule.--
Inuit18 (
talk)
23:42, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
do you know want academic means? this website might claim he was an Afghan but their claim is not rational since Afghan and Afghanistan did not exist in Herat during Babur's rule. If you find a reliable and academic source that says Afghans lived in Herat during Babur's reign then we will add Afghan.-- Inuit18 ( talk) 03:57, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for this detailed note.
Uvav (
talk) 02:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC)Uvav
Uvav (
talk)
02:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
I find only two issues mainly discussed in the talk page here : 1) whether his ancestry was Pashtun/Afghan etc 2) His affiliation to salafi school and secular credentials
The former can be put in a dual wording sentence (is said to be.....some claim it ...etc) or avoided till the dispute is resolved. Also a disputed or a discuss tag can be put near that section which discusses it. The second needs references.Those who brought up the issue seem to citing their opinions. They don't seem to have quoted any reference.
Tagging an article as disputed just because someone cites their opinion without authentic narratives and a minor dispute about his ethnicity is injustice to the subject. A person so important in history deserves a good article and those with opinions should come up with more sources.Till then I suggest the disputed tags be removed. NMKuttiady ( talk) 09:53, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Maulana Azad was the president of Jamiat-e-Ulema-Hind and therefore his ties with the Deoband Order and religious Muslims were very strong, he himself being very religious. Religious Muslims in any event opposed the creation of Pakistan, especially those Darul Uloom Deoband. The link given does not mention Deoband. 202.59.80.154 ( talk) 08:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
The article " Maulana Abul Kalam Azad: The Man Who Knew The Future Of Pakistan Before Its Creation " is fake. There is no credible source which can date the history of this article to the year 1946. If the interview did occur how come it is never acknowledged by anyone throughout history despite of such precise predictions. More over the predictions seem to precise to possibly be real and seem to be a recent forgery. Also The Man Who Forged An Interview: Shorish Kashmiri's Maulana Azad Hoax is an article which lays out various points and systematically discredits the authenticity of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.175.181 ( talk) 09:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
Actually it was authenticated by a number of authors including MJ Akbar which is quoted in his latest book "TinderBox: The Past and Future of Pakistan". MJ Akbar is a well renowned scholar and historian and also a leading Indian Jounarlist and Director of India Today. His work would be more credible than a blog written by some unknown person. Moreover, most of his "points" have been discredited in the comments itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.34.60.142 ( talk) 04:11, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Simla conference.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 18 November 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 19:34, 18 November 2011 (UTC) |
any reference would be appreciated or else the line has to removed
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Maulana Azad/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
A well written article but lacks lots of references. Once those are added one can try for WP:GA?-- Shahab 20:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 20:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 06:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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What changes will done by the molana Abdul Kalam Azad if he will be alive 106.195.70.135 ( talk) 18:48, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 19:44, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
Abul Kalam Azad → Maulana Azad – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Capitals00 ( talk) 19:13, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Also see:
Capitals00 ( talk) 19:09, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
He seemed to have gone through a phase of atheism in his early life as quoted by some sources like these - 1. https://southasia.ucla.edu/history-politics/independent-india/abul-kalam-azad/ 2. https://www.jstor.org/stable/24159314
The second source quotes him as saying - “I was by now a complete atheist. I took great pride in my belief in 'materialism' and 'rationalism' and saw in religion only ignorance and conjecture."
It further says, “This period lasted from 1902 to 1910 i.e. from the age of fourteen to twenty”
I think this deserves a mention in this article. If someone could edit the article to include this, it would be nice. AbdulKareem92 ( talk) 19:06, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
Moulana Abul kalam azad information in urdu 103.164.200.162 ( talk) 17:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)