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I have created a sep section to make it easier to deal with this point. I do not have any objection to including this incident, or using the Somali online resource as a source. We must include diverse sources because I really have a problem with this. There is no way to have balance by dismissing sources which look "native". I am not sure why such an incident was removed (if it was).-- Inayity ( talk) 12:31, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
The Somalia Report investigative story actually links to the December 2010 Gosling piece, so perhaps it's okay for background info on the journalists. However, the Gosling article doesn't mention anywhere Bryden's alleged Ambassador Hotel threats. This appears to have come to light later, in February 2011, after Somalia Report actually interviewed eyewitnesses to the incident [2]. The Foreign Policy piece also points out that it's actually the SEMG that tipped off the Somaliland authorities to the alleged mercenary and weapon-filled plane, not the other way around. This makes sense since the UN at the time managed Somalia's airspace through the Civil Aviation Caretaker Authority for Somalia ("The SEMG apparently (the U.N. handles all flight permissions over Somalia) tipped off Somaliland officials that a PMPF plane supposedly loaded with weapons and mercenaries was on its way to Puntland[...] Almost as if by magic, Bryden showed up at the Ambassador Hotel in Hargeisa and threatened the two South African passengers[...] That is, until he discovered that the two "mercenaries" were in fact a well-known 60 Minutes camera team invited to film the PMPF base") [3]. Middayexpress ( talk) 13:52, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
The Somalia Report is actually one of the better Western publications specializing in the Horn of Africa [4]. It hires both local and foreign journalists and has been used by the UN itself, among others. The main piece on the Ambassador Hotel incident was also not signed by Pelton. It's actually a magazine investigative report [5]; the op-eds are in the separate Opinion section of the website [6]. Also note that for the piece, "Somalia Report has interviewed a number of eyewitnesses and gathered evidence to show that there was much more to this event than published in the media." It is therefore different from the earlier Gosling piece, as Gosling did not conduct any interviews with eyewitnesses at the Hotel. That said, I have not argued that Bryden is the one that detained the plane. That obviously would be the Somaliland authorities themselves. According to eyewitness testimony gathered by the Somalia Report, it would appear that Bryden and other UN officials were already aware that the detained reporters were in the area on a journalistic assignment and not as mercenaries: "Somalia Report has learned that[...] Bryden and many other high ranking UN and government officials had been briefed on the entire anti-piracy program beforehand in Nairobi." A more balanced approach would thus be chronological i.e. to indicate what Gosling initially reported on the incident, and follow that with later developments such as the Somalia Report's eyewitness testimony/key player interviews. If Bryden has made any statements on the affair, we should of course add that too. Middayexpress ( talk) 14:21, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
I gave it a fresh cleanup removing some anecdotes and unecessary detail about his early career, taking out editorialized political commentary, etc. etc. The article is still negative, but I am content with that based on the sources I have seen, so long as it's not editorialized and excessive. That being said, it is difficult to assess what a neutral article looks like when the sources are difficult to access/find and I may change my view and alter the article accordingly if new reliable, secondary sources emerge.
A couple things I noticed are:
CorporateM ( Talk) 00:54, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
Bryden's PR rep provided some other comments/sources here that I think will help balance the article a bit with some minor, but important changes. I'm going to go through them now. CorporateM ( Talk) 14:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
|
I have created a sep section to make it easier to deal with this point. I do not have any objection to including this incident, or using the Somali online resource as a source. We must include diverse sources because I really have a problem with this. There is no way to have balance by dismissing sources which look "native". I am not sure why such an incident was removed (if it was).-- Inayity ( talk) 12:31, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
The Somalia Report investigative story actually links to the December 2010 Gosling piece, so perhaps it's okay for background info on the journalists. However, the Gosling article doesn't mention anywhere Bryden's alleged Ambassador Hotel threats. This appears to have come to light later, in February 2011, after Somalia Report actually interviewed eyewitnesses to the incident [2]. The Foreign Policy piece also points out that it's actually the SEMG that tipped off the Somaliland authorities to the alleged mercenary and weapon-filled plane, not the other way around. This makes sense since the UN at the time managed Somalia's airspace through the Civil Aviation Caretaker Authority for Somalia ("The SEMG apparently (the U.N. handles all flight permissions over Somalia) tipped off Somaliland officials that a PMPF plane supposedly loaded with weapons and mercenaries was on its way to Puntland[...] Almost as if by magic, Bryden showed up at the Ambassador Hotel in Hargeisa and threatened the two South African passengers[...] That is, until he discovered that the two "mercenaries" were in fact a well-known 60 Minutes camera team invited to film the PMPF base") [3]. Middayexpress ( talk) 13:52, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
The Somalia Report is actually one of the better Western publications specializing in the Horn of Africa [4]. It hires both local and foreign journalists and has been used by the UN itself, among others. The main piece on the Ambassador Hotel incident was also not signed by Pelton. It's actually a magazine investigative report [5]; the op-eds are in the separate Opinion section of the website [6]. Also note that for the piece, "Somalia Report has interviewed a number of eyewitnesses and gathered evidence to show that there was much more to this event than published in the media." It is therefore different from the earlier Gosling piece, as Gosling did not conduct any interviews with eyewitnesses at the Hotel. That said, I have not argued that Bryden is the one that detained the plane. That obviously would be the Somaliland authorities themselves. According to eyewitness testimony gathered by the Somalia Report, it would appear that Bryden and other UN officials were already aware that the detained reporters were in the area on a journalistic assignment and not as mercenaries: "Somalia Report has learned that[...] Bryden and many other high ranking UN and government officials had been briefed on the entire anti-piracy program beforehand in Nairobi." A more balanced approach would thus be chronological i.e. to indicate what Gosling initially reported on the incident, and follow that with later developments such as the Somalia Report's eyewitness testimony/key player interviews. If Bryden has made any statements on the affair, we should of course add that too. Middayexpress ( talk) 14:21, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
I gave it a fresh cleanup removing some anecdotes and unecessary detail about his early career, taking out editorialized political commentary, etc. etc. The article is still negative, but I am content with that based on the sources I have seen, so long as it's not editorialized and excessive. That being said, it is difficult to assess what a neutral article looks like when the sources are difficult to access/find and I may change my view and alter the article accordingly if new reliable, secondary sources emerge.
A couple things I noticed are:
CorporateM ( Talk) 00:54, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
Bryden's PR rep provided some other comments/sources here that I think will help balance the article a bit with some minor, but important changes. I'm going to go through them now. CorporateM ( Talk) 14:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)