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There is a lot of emphasis in this article on Gonzalez's Green Party membership and the fact that he was one of the most successful Green politicians in the country. While I don't want to minimize this fact, I do think that something totally unmentioned in the article needs to be made clear: that California city elections are non-partisan, in that nobody's party affiliation appears on the ballot. Everyone from all parties competes in what is essentially a primary, and if nobody gets 50 percent, then the top two go to a runoff. This in essence makes the election much more about individuals than parties. I used to live in the Bay Area (Oakland, as it happens, where elections are run the same way) -- the difference in dynamics with my current home, Baltimore, where candidates participate in traditional party primaries before heading to the general -- is marked.
Anyway, I am trying to figure out the best way to put this in the article to explain how this dynamic works without minimizing the genuine point of interest: that a Green Party candidate almost was elected mayor of a major American city. -- Jfruh ( talk) 16:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
The first sentence of "criticism"--"Gonzalez's critics considered him a stubborn and willful idealogue" is unsourced.
"He walked out of Mayor Willie Brown's State of the City address in 2002" How is that criticism?
The next: "..Gonzalez was the only board member who voted against it" How is this "criticism"?
"Gonzalez said that supervisors shouldn't issue such commendations for winning partisan political positions...etc" HOW is that criticism?
"spray-painted "Smash the State" on the walls of the office" Vandalism is criticism?
Please do not revert these per the WP:BLP guidelines, which instructs that such nonsense be removed. Please discuss any changes proposed, or include well sourced criticism. GRIOT, I'm really not interested in Wikidramas, but I will report your continued policy violations--including your postings on my talk page telling me which articles I can or cannot edit--on the appropriate boards, as they are out of hand. Boodlesthecat ( talk) 17:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
All the references should be properly formatted including the accessdate. Ths will greatly help resolve content issues. Ben jiboi 03:25, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
The external links should be cleaned up and if Gonzalez's writings are notable they should be converted to a bibliography section instead. Ben jiboi 03:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
In an article about Matt Gonzalez, the only image is a picture of Gavin Newsom. Makes no sense to me -- any objections to deleting the image? -- Sfmammamia ( talk) 02:31, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Sfmammam. It is not at all customary to have a photo of someone's opponent in a political campaign on a website devoted to an individual. In fact, it is abnormal. A photo of Gonzalez, of course, belongs on the page. What must be done to delete the Newsom photo while one of Gonzalez is added? Wikiuser100 ( talk) 21:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
A good image of both of them is here, on Nader's blog. What does it take for an image to be considered free-use? bov ( talk) 19:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm nitpicking here, but public defenders (and criminal defense lawyers in general) are not commonly referred to as "trial lawyers". In its common usage, the term "trial lawyer" refers to a plaintiff's lawyer in civil trial. 68.53.88.198 ( talk) 17:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Now that he's a VP candidate Gonzalez is no doubt giving his rumpled suit a much needed pressing...we should do the same here because a lot of people will be reading this article. I'm thinking a little more biographical material, especially his education and career as a lawyer, and his personal life. Also, I think the article is pretty good and neutral (let's hope it stays that way) for now. But English-wise it could be spiffed up. One thing I notice is a lot of contractions (didn't, wasn't, etc) that should be spelled out for formal tone. Ive done enough today and don't want to take over the article but that's my idea. Also, fixing reference cites as noted above, and googling and adding citations for important facts that aren't yet cited. I found that most uncited facts in the article are true, they just need us to find a source. Wikidemo ( talk) 04:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Why were the images that Robert Livingston posted of Matt deleted? I'll write to Robert Livingston and alert him. 67.170.205.8 ( talk) 15:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
IP address 71.139.23.172 deleted this reference. User has same IP range as User:Griot. Reference checked, confirmed valid. Restored. LandonAdamScott ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC).
Does anybody else think this article needs an overhaul? Nobody has editing it for some time. I think it should be parred down a bit commensurate to the subject. For example, most of the links in the "Articles by Gonzalez" section are dead. How about removing them? Most of them can be gotten at G's blog site anyway. If no one objects, I'd like to take a stab and winnowing this article. Chisme ( talk) 18:08, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
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@ Chisme: I saw the recent changes. Some were good. I broke this up into separate sections in case you wish to comment there.
(1) These two ( [1] [2]), I reverted (( [3] [4]). I do understand your attempt to simply the article into chronological order and move the information about party affiliation there. However, Gonzalez was a unique politician in San Francisco (and the U.S.) because of his affiliation with the Green Party, it is worthy of a special section as in the original. (I could probably find RS to support that. I think there is book by a San Francisco State Univ. Political Sci. author who discusses liberal politics that might discuss this.) I do not necessarily object to changing the material to be chronological if the emphasis/significance of Green Party affiliation switch is sufficiently highlighted. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 08:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
(2) In your change of the sentence about Gonzalez moving at the urging of Ammiano, I did not see that in the article. Please show me a quote if I am mistaken. The article says he formerly lived in the Mission, but I saw nothing indicating that he moved to District 5 at Ammiano's urging. I did see that you cut down on the definition of District 5. I doubt that is important. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 08:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
(3) I was okay with removal of some of the material that did not have RS. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 08:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
(4) In other thoughts. The section on Gonzalez's tenure at the Board (before becoming President) is only negative. Not exactly NPOV. I doubt that is all that is available in RS, even though the Chronicle has never been that fond of Progressives. Gonzalez was responsible for the Proposition that raised the min. wage, for example. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 08:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
@ Chisme: I see you are making a number of WP:BOLD changes without discussing on the talk page, and that you have not responded to anything I posted above from a year ago. I do think some of your edits are improvements, but not all. I would appreciate if you engage more here and that you propose big changes on the talk page first so we have time to consider them. Thanks. I am pinging GentlemanGhost, IronGargoyle, IcarusLivesX who have also participated this month for any thoughts on these overall changes. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 23:11, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
I restored most of the Matt_Gonzalez#2008_presidential_race. I did reduce some of the material that was WP:undue and not WP:NPOV. Please note that I try to make multiple edits so that you can tell what changed: simplify, revise, move. It is much easier to figure out what I did than if I had done it all in one big edit. I encourage others to try to do this too if possible, since our diff software is not smart enough to show these steps. Otherwise, relatively small changes can look like very big changes. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 23:20, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
I see this page has quite a bit of RS within it:
...
That's just for that one section. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 00:41, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Matt Gonzalez article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Matt Gonzalez received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
|
|||||||
There is a lot of emphasis in this article on Gonzalez's Green Party membership and the fact that he was one of the most successful Green politicians in the country. While I don't want to minimize this fact, I do think that something totally unmentioned in the article needs to be made clear: that California city elections are non-partisan, in that nobody's party affiliation appears on the ballot. Everyone from all parties competes in what is essentially a primary, and if nobody gets 50 percent, then the top two go to a runoff. This in essence makes the election much more about individuals than parties. I used to live in the Bay Area (Oakland, as it happens, where elections are run the same way) -- the difference in dynamics with my current home, Baltimore, where candidates participate in traditional party primaries before heading to the general -- is marked.
Anyway, I am trying to figure out the best way to put this in the article to explain how this dynamic works without minimizing the genuine point of interest: that a Green Party candidate almost was elected mayor of a major American city. -- Jfruh ( talk) 16:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
The first sentence of "criticism"--"Gonzalez's critics considered him a stubborn and willful idealogue" is unsourced.
"He walked out of Mayor Willie Brown's State of the City address in 2002" How is that criticism?
The next: "..Gonzalez was the only board member who voted against it" How is this "criticism"?
"Gonzalez said that supervisors shouldn't issue such commendations for winning partisan political positions...etc" HOW is that criticism?
"spray-painted "Smash the State" on the walls of the office" Vandalism is criticism?
Please do not revert these per the WP:BLP guidelines, which instructs that such nonsense be removed. Please discuss any changes proposed, or include well sourced criticism. GRIOT, I'm really not interested in Wikidramas, but I will report your continued policy violations--including your postings on my talk page telling me which articles I can or cannot edit--on the appropriate boards, as they are out of hand. Boodlesthecat ( talk) 17:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
All the references should be properly formatted including the accessdate. Ths will greatly help resolve content issues. Ben jiboi 03:25, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
The external links should be cleaned up and if Gonzalez's writings are notable they should be converted to a bibliography section instead. Ben jiboi 03:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
In an article about Matt Gonzalez, the only image is a picture of Gavin Newsom. Makes no sense to me -- any objections to deleting the image? -- Sfmammamia ( talk) 02:31, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Sfmammam. It is not at all customary to have a photo of someone's opponent in a political campaign on a website devoted to an individual. In fact, it is abnormal. A photo of Gonzalez, of course, belongs on the page. What must be done to delete the Newsom photo while one of Gonzalez is added? Wikiuser100 ( talk) 21:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
A good image of both of them is here, on Nader's blog. What does it take for an image to be considered free-use? bov ( talk) 19:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm nitpicking here, but public defenders (and criminal defense lawyers in general) are not commonly referred to as "trial lawyers". In its common usage, the term "trial lawyer" refers to a plaintiff's lawyer in civil trial. 68.53.88.198 ( talk) 17:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Now that he's a VP candidate Gonzalez is no doubt giving his rumpled suit a much needed pressing...we should do the same here because a lot of people will be reading this article. I'm thinking a little more biographical material, especially his education and career as a lawyer, and his personal life. Also, I think the article is pretty good and neutral (let's hope it stays that way) for now. But English-wise it could be spiffed up. One thing I notice is a lot of contractions (didn't, wasn't, etc) that should be spelled out for formal tone. Ive done enough today and don't want to take over the article but that's my idea. Also, fixing reference cites as noted above, and googling and adding citations for important facts that aren't yet cited. I found that most uncited facts in the article are true, they just need us to find a source. Wikidemo ( talk) 04:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Why were the images that Robert Livingston posted of Matt deleted? I'll write to Robert Livingston and alert him. 67.170.205.8 ( talk) 15:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
IP address 71.139.23.172 deleted this reference. User has same IP range as User:Griot. Reference checked, confirmed valid. Restored. LandonAdamScott ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC).
Does anybody else think this article needs an overhaul? Nobody has editing it for some time. I think it should be parred down a bit commensurate to the subject. For example, most of the links in the "Articles by Gonzalez" section are dead. How about removing them? Most of them can be gotten at G's blog site anyway. If no one objects, I'd like to take a stab and winnowing this article. Chisme ( talk) 18:08, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:02, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
@ Chisme: I saw the recent changes. Some were good. I broke this up into separate sections in case you wish to comment there.
(1) These two ( [1] [2]), I reverted (( [3] [4]). I do understand your attempt to simply the article into chronological order and move the information about party affiliation there. However, Gonzalez was a unique politician in San Francisco (and the U.S.) because of his affiliation with the Green Party, it is worthy of a special section as in the original. (I could probably find RS to support that. I think there is book by a San Francisco State Univ. Political Sci. author who discusses liberal politics that might discuss this.) I do not necessarily object to changing the material to be chronological if the emphasis/significance of Green Party affiliation switch is sufficiently highlighted. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 08:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
(2) In your change of the sentence about Gonzalez moving at the urging of Ammiano, I did not see that in the article. Please show me a quote if I am mistaken. The article says he formerly lived in the Mission, but I saw nothing indicating that he moved to District 5 at Ammiano's urging. I did see that you cut down on the definition of District 5. I doubt that is important. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 08:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
(3) I was okay with removal of some of the material that did not have RS. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 08:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
(4) In other thoughts. The section on Gonzalez's tenure at the Board (before becoming President) is only negative. Not exactly NPOV. I doubt that is all that is available in RS, even though the Chronicle has never been that fond of Progressives. Gonzalez was responsible for the Proposition that raised the min. wage, for example. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 08:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
@ Chisme: I see you are making a number of WP:BOLD changes without discussing on the talk page, and that you have not responded to anything I posted above from a year ago. I do think some of your edits are improvements, but not all. I would appreciate if you engage more here and that you propose big changes on the talk page first so we have time to consider them. Thanks. I am pinging GentlemanGhost, IronGargoyle, IcarusLivesX who have also participated this month for any thoughts on these overall changes. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 23:11, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
I restored most of the Matt_Gonzalez#2008_presidential_race. I did reduce some of the material that was WP:undue and not WP:NPOV. Please note that I try to make multiple edits so that you can tell what changed: simplify, revise, move. It is much easier to figure out what I did than if I had done it all in one big edit. I encourage others to try to do this too if possible, since our diff software is not smart enough to show these steps. Otherwise, relatively small changes can look like very big changes. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 23:20, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
I see this page has quite a bit of RS within it:
...
That's just for that one section. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 00:41, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
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