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![]() | The contents of the Rato Machhendranath page were merged into Matsyendranatha. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Can we get a source for "he was born out of a fish's womb"? As entertaining as it is...
seems a little far fetched to me.
64.92.27.124 ( talk) 00:46, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually it is the standard legend...
We definitely need to add a version of his origin story here (and put a better version on the Hatha Yoga page). I would vote for the simple one from light on yoga. If memory serves he was born under an inauspicious star and thrown into the ocean by his parents where a fish swallowed him. The fish swam deep under the ocean with baby Matsyendra, passing Shiva giving the secret lessons of Yoga to Parvati where he thought no one could hear. Matsyendranath overheard this discourse, became instantaneously enlightened and sprang out of the fish an enlightened and fully grown man, able to teach yoga to the people. Sort of the Prometheus of yoga, without the torture. Iṣṭa Devata ( talk) 15:44, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, you're definitely right that those pages should be merged. But I don't know how well one can seperate myth from fact with Matsyendra. Seems like everything we know about him comes through mythically enhanced stories. After all, his 'disciple' Goraksha wasn't even alive at the same time. But, if you've got good sources, more power to you. Iṣṭa Devata ( talk) 03:49, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
Mayamba is Guru Matsyendranath Temple with its reference in Navnath Granth. This is located at Sawargaon, Tal: AShti Dist : Beed, Maharashtra — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravindrashind ( talk • contribs) 07:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
I just undid a revision that tried to describe Matsyendranath as an Assamese Buddhist (by User:Bhaskarbhagawati). While the information was referenced, it goes against the mainstream academic understanding of Matsyendra to call him specifically a Buddhist or to claim to know his ethnicity and as such doesn't belong in the intro (and seems like a slight leap from the sentence quoted). If someone wants to re add it with a proper explanation to a new section I wouldn't object, but calling him Buddhist in the intro is to present a fringe perspective as accepted mainstream fact which is misleading and not very encyclopedic. Iṣṭa Devatā ( talk) 03:32, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
Looking better, but I'm still not sure if he should be described as de facto Buddhist. I feel like he is commonly considered as a Hindu by many, especially since the group he allegedly founded, the Nathas, are not a buddhist group but Hindu Tantriks (even though the Mahasiddhas are Buddhist saints, often of mythical origin). I'm open to the consensus of the editors here. Iṣṭa Devatā ( talk) 05:54, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi Iṣṭa Devatā, it seems that in your recent good faith edits like here, you are unilaterally reaching a consensus and go ahead with your edits, without waiting for talks to finish.
It also seemed to engage in removing directly cited content like here, here, here, here (failed WP:OR too), here (needed for context) also here. Please try to throughly discuss prior to removing contents which are sourced with reliable sources. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 03:05, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
As for the statement "Matsyendranath did a lot to bring about social and religious awakening by combining the best in Buddhism and Hinduism" it seems like your source says the exact same thing you did so I can't fault you there. I wonder at the wording (of the original quote) just because it sounds like he was working specifically with elements of Hinduism and Buddhism as a reformer, while the impression from what I've read is that he was a tantrik essentially unconcerned with creeds and developed tantric practices which influenced tantric Hinduism and Buddhism. Like much of medieval yoga it was an amalgamation but not really an intentional synthesis of the two traditions. I would love to hear another editor's opinion on this. ANy thoughts from Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!? Iṣṭa Devatā ( talk) 21:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
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This is the
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Matsyendranatha article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | The contents of the Rato Machhendranath page were merged into Matsyendranatha. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Can we get a source for "he was born out of a fish's womb"? As entertaining as it is...
seems a little far fetched to me.
64.92.27.124 ( talk) 00:46, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually it is the standard legend...
We definitely need to add a version of his origin story here (and put a better version on the Hatha Yoga page). I would vote for the simple one from light on yoga. If memory serves he was born under an inauspicious star and thrown into the ocean by his parents where a fish swallowed him. The fish swam deep under the ocean with baby Matsyendra, passing Shiva giving the secret lessons of Yoga to Parvati where he thought no one could hear. Matsyendranath overheard this discourse, became instantaneously enlightened and sprang out of the fish an enlightened and fully grown man, able to teach yoga to the people. Sort of the Prometheus of yoga, without the torture. Iṣṭa Devata ( talk) 15:44, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, you're definitely right that those pages should be merged. But I don't know how well one can seperate myth from fact with Matsyendra. Seems like everything we know about him comes through mythically enhanced stories. After all, his 'disciple' Goraksha wasn't even alive at the same time. But, if you've got good sources, more power to you. Iṣṭa Devata ( talk) 03:49, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
Mayamba is Guru Matsyendranath Temple with its reference in Navnath Granth. This is located at Sawargaon, Tal: AShti Dist : Beed, Maharashtra — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravindrashind ( talk • contribs) 07:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
I just undid a revision that tried to describe Matsyendranath as an Assamese Buddhist (by User:Bhaskarbhagawati). While the information was referenced, it goes against the mainstream academic understanding of Matsyendra to call him specifically a Buddhist or to claim to know his ethnicity and as such doesn't belong in the intro (and seems like a slight leap from the sentence quoted). If someone wants to re add it with a proper explanation to a new section I wouldn't object, but calling him Buddhist in the intro is to present a fringe perspective as accepted mainstream fact which is misleading and not very encyclopedic. Iṣṭa Devatā ( talk) 03:32, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
Looking better, but I'm still not sure if he should be described as de facto Buddhist. I feel like he is commonly considered as a Hindu by many, especially since the group he allegedly founded, the Nathas, are not a buddhist group but Hindu Tantriks (even though the Mahasiddhas are Buddhist saints, often of mythical origin). I'm open to the consensus of the editors here. Iṣṭa Devatā ( talk) 05:54, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi Iṣṭa Devatā, it seems that in your recent good faith edits like here, you are unilaterally reaching a consensus and go ahead with your edits, without waiting for talks to finish.
It also seemed to engage in removing directly cited content like here, here, here, here (failed WP:OR too), here (needed for context) also here. Please try to throughly discuss prior to removing contents which are sourced with reliable sources. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 03:05, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
As for the statement "Matsyendranath did a lot to bring about social and religious awakening by combining the best in Buddhism and Hinduism" it seems like your source says the exact same thing you did so I can't fault you there. I wonder at the wording (of the original quote) just because it sounds like he was working specifically with elements of Hinduism and Buddhism as a reformer, while the impression from what I've read is that he was a tantrik essentially unconcerned with creeds and developed tantric practices which influenced tantric Hinduism and Buddhism. Like much of medieval yoga it was an amalgamation but not really an intentional synthesis of the two traditions. I would love to hear another editor's opinion on this. ANy thoughts from Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!? Iṣṭa Devatā ( talk) 21:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Matsyendranath. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:59, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Did you know that if you tap your Kindle where it shows the location, it will give you the actual page number? Another method is to highlight the quote, then view "Your Clippings." This will also give you the page numbers. Kindle Locations aren't generally useful and should not be used in references: and only someone with a Kindle who has also purchased the same book can correct them. Please don't use Kindle Locations in references. Thanks! Skyerise ( talk) 15:56, 24 December 2020 (UTC)