![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
i check MathWorld perhaps once a month. Today i checked out the Whitney Umbrella doing research. And lo! it says that the Whitney Umbrella x^2-y^2*z == 0 has a handle that's the negative z-axis. What sophoremoron: “umbrella must have a handle!”. Btw,i've also saved it for future proof. Btw, Eric, if you ever corrected this one, i demand a acknowledgement on this too. Xah Lee 00:06, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)
the wikipedian morons have reverted the article to their collective moronic point of view. I simply havn't had time to involve their fucking disputes. I will make an effort to correct it though in the future. Just a note: all involvement in this edit war will be recorded by me, for i will possible publish an account of the moronicity of mathworld as i have opined, along with the wikipedian addicts's moronicity, including names or handles of the particants. Xah Lee 08:01, 2005 Apr 4 (UTC)
just another fact point i hope will effect some wiki morons involved in this dispute: about a week ago i looked up mathworld.com on cusp. Again, spectacular stupid info is presented there, by all perspectives. Just about every time i lookup mathworld for something, some egregious info shows. Xah Lee 08:06, 2005 Apr 4 (UTC)
Will we mention it in Wikipedia whenever * has been discussed and argued about on any forum? If there is a systematic problem with the quality of a long-established resource, by all means point out the erroneous information and allow the reader to judge it. There has been much less doubt of MathWorld's quality then, say, Wikipedia's. And as a proponent of Wikipedia.org, I tend to believe that that speaks highly of MathWorld.
As a professional mathematician who has occasionally looked at MathWorld to find either general information or exact definitions, I can say from my experience that MathWorld is convenient and useful for general information, but not reliable for details. I have found its unreliability is sufficiently high that I cannot be sure of its correctness in any statement and in order to be certain, I have to check it with an authoritative source (a research article or a book). Zaslav 05:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
On the contrary, it is very important that people know that wikipedia and mathworld disagree on certain important mathematical definitions. My guess would be that these are the two sources most often used by students today. They need to know that the two sources do not agree. Rick Norwood 14:03, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following: Readers should note that even in mathematics authorities do not always agree on definitions. For example, MathWorld does not require a ring to have an identity, Wikipedia does. Wikipedia does not require a manifold to have a fixed dimension, MathWorld does. wikipedia is not a primary source! If there are disagreements it is not between wikipedia and mathworld it is between wikipedia's sources and mathworld--unless someone was using original research, which is against wikipedia policy. If you think it is important for disagreements between Mathworld and other sources to be noted, mention those sources, not wikipedia (perhaps point out that wikipedia's sources don't always agree with Mathworld.) Dont just revert, as it stands the section is clearly unacceptable as it makes wikipedia out to be an authority, as opposed to a initial reference. --06:55, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I personally think mathworld is pretty good. Classic texts almost always have errors too, at least in the 1st edition. Mathworld is always growing so it's going to have mistakes in a 1st editionlike way. So does wikipedia, but our inaccuracies are so legendary they appear to be going w/o saying, at least on this talk page. Also, it's Weisstein's job, and he's good at it, so I bet it is comparable to the job done by volunteers here.Anyway, Wikipedians can help over at Mathworld too. -What I'm getting to is I think we should link Wikipedia math articles to Mathworld almost all the time. It is true that it's now sponsored by Wolfram but that's an historical accident and this cries out for an exception to any no commercial links policies. I also say it would be great to link to threads on sci.math.research if we could. The main idea is to be helpful. Rich 21:15, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Hello today I made several edits that I think improved this article. They were reverted under the explanation "revert link spam" -it may have been accidental that the reversions of my edits were unmentioned- There WAS a dubious link and it needed reverting, but let's all try to remember to describe briefly all the main things we do as a courtesy, or else say something like "did all kinds of edits". I put back in the most noncontroversial of my edits-"citation needed." If someone reverts it please say so when you do it, and I would like to discuss your reasons with you. It may help me learn more about editing. Rich 02:44, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, thanks, and no worries. Rich 03:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I removed the Quality section:
As it stands, it is simply not neutrally worded. Furthermore, there is no independent assesment provided here. Regardless of whether these errors are valid or not, Wikipedia cannot take a POV on the matter. It must come from some other source. Dysprosia 09:51, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I've deleted the "quality" section. As it stood, it was filled with unsubstantiated claims. I've given one solution above on how to write such a section. Another way would be to find some source who has done some kind of substantive study showing MathWorld is consistently wrong, more than say, Wikipedia or any other source, online or otherwise. But that kind of study would be difficult, I imagine. In any case, it's better, I think, to delete it for now since it may take a while to write a reasonable section on MathWorld and quality issues. -- C S 12:38, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)
I removed the word "occasionally" from "there have occasionally been incorrect statements and typos in MathWorld articles." I have found too many severe errors in combinatorics articles, which suggests to me that MathWorld cannot be relied upon (though it can be useful). I refrained from adding any indication of how often errors occur, and I propose we not try to decide that, but just say they happen. Zaslav 06:20, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Both items in the references section are citations from Usenet, which does not meet the critera of a "reliable source" as per WP:CITE. After all the discussion and revisions to the Criticisms section, since this is the best anyone can do citationwise, perhaps the Criticism section should be axed. -- 69.124.53.47 14:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
"The free online version became only partially accessible to the public." Does not make any sense. Is this supposed to mean that a limited version was published for free access online? Or rather that the previously complete open-access version was reduced in scope as a result of the print deal? -- Belg4mit 22:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
i check MathWorld perhaps once a month. Today i checked out the Whitney Umbrella doing research. And lo! it says that the Whitney Umbrella x^2-y^2*z == 0 has a handle that's the negative z-axis. What sophoremoron: “umbrella must have a handle!”. Btw,i've also saved it for future proof. Btw, Eric, if you ever corrected this one, i demand a acknowledgement on this too. Xah Lee 00:06, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)
the wikipedian morons have reverted the article to their collective moronic point of view. I simply havn't had time to involve their fucking disputes. I will make an effort to correct it though in the future. Just a note: all involvement in this edit war will be recorded by me, for i will possible publish an account of the moronicity of mathworld as i have opined, along with the wikipedian addicts's moronicity, including names or handles of the particants. Xah Lee 08:01, 2005 Apr 4 (UTC)
just another fact point i hope will effect some wiki morons involved in this dispute: about a week ago i looked up mathworld.com on cusp. Again, spectacular stupid info is presented there, by all perspectives. Just about every time i lookup mathworld for something, some egregious info shows. Xah Lee 08:06, 2005 Apr 4 (UTC)
Will we mention it in Wikipedia whenever * has been discussed and argued about on any forum? If there is a systematic problem with the quality of a long-established resource, by all means point out the erroneous information and allow the reader to judge it. There has been much less doubt of MathWorld's quality then, say, Wikipedia's. And as a proponent of Wikipedia.org, I tend to believe that that speaks highly of MathWorld.
As a professional mathematician who has occasionally looked at MathWorld to find either general information or exact definitions, I can say from my experience that MathWorld is convenient and useful for general information, but not reliable for details. I have found its unreliability is sufficiently high that I cannot be sure of its correctness in any statement and in order to be certain, I have to check it with an authoritative source (a research article or a book). Zaslav 05:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
On the contrary, it is very important that people know that wikipedia and mathworld disagree on certain important mathematical definitions. My guess would be that these are the two sources most often used by students today. They need to know that the two sources do not agree. Rick Norwood 14:03, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following: Readers should note that even in mathematics authorities do not always agree on definitions. For example, MathWorld does not require a ring to have an identity, Wikipedia does. Wikipedia does not require a manifold to have a fixed dimension, MathWorld does. wikipedia is not a primary source! If there are disagreements it is not between wikipedia and mathworld it is between wikipedia's sources and mathworld--unless someone was using original research, which is against wikipedia policy. If you think it is important for disagreements between Mathworld and other sources to be noted, mention those sources, not wikipedia (perhaps point out that wikipedia's sources don't always agree with Mathworld.) Dont just revert, as it stands the section is clearly unacceptable as it makes wikipedia out to be an authority, as opposed to a initial reference. --06:55, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I personally think mathworld is pretty good. Classic texts almost always have errors too, at least in the 1st edition. Mathworld is always growing so it's going to have mistakes in a 1st editionlike way. So does wikipedia, but our inaccuracies are so legendary they appear to be going w/o saying, at least on this talk page. Also, it's Weisstein's job, and he's good at it, so I bet it is comparable to the job done by volunteers here.Anyway, Wikipedians can help over at Mathworld too. -What I'm getting to is I think we should link Wikipedia math articles to Mathworld almost all the time. It is true that it's now sponsored by Wolfram but that's an historical accident and this cries out for an exception to any no commercial links policies. I also say it would be great to link to threads on sci.math.research if we could. The main idea is to be helpful. Rich 21:15, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Hello today I made several edits that I think improved this article. They were reverted under the explanation "revert link spam" -it may have been accidental that the reversions of my edits were unmentioned- There WAS a dubious link and it needed reverting, but let's all try to remember to describe briefly all the main things we do as a courtesy, or else say something like "did all kinds of edits". I put back in the most noncontroversial of my edits-"citation needed." If someone reverts it please say so when you do it, and I would like to discuss your reasons with you. It may help me learn more about editing. Rich 02:44, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, thanks, and no worries. Rich 03:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I removed the Quality section:
As it stands, it is simply not neutrally worded. Furthermore, there is no independent assesment provided here. Regardless of whether these errors are valid or not, Wikipedia cannot take a POV on the matter. It must come from some other source. Dysprosia 09:51, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I've deleted the "quality" section. As it stood, it was filled with unsubstantiated claims. I've given one solution above on how to write such a section. Another way would be to find some source who has done some kind of substantive study showing MathWorld is consistently wrong, more than say, Wikipedia or any other source, online or otherwise. But that kind of study would be difficult, I imagine. In any case, it's better, I think, to delete it for now since it may take a while to write a reasonable section on MathWorld and quality issues. -- C S 12:38, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)
I removed the word "occasionally" from "there have occasionally been incorrect statements and typos in MathWorld articles." I have found too many severe errors in combinatorics articles, which suggests to me that MathWorld cannot be relied upon (though it can be useful). I refrained from adding any indication of how often errors occur, and I propose we not try to decide that, but just say they happen. Zaslav 06:20, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Both items in the references section are citations from Usenet, which does not meet the critera of a "reliable source" as per WP:CITE. After all the discussion and revisions to the Criticisms section, since this is the best anyone can do citationwise, perhaps the Criticism section should be axed. -- 69.124.53.47 14:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
"The free online version became only partially accessible to the public." Does not make any sense. Is this supposed to mean that a limited version was published for free access online? Or rather that the previously complete open-access version was reduced in scope as a result of the print deal? -- Belg4mit 22:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)