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If it's really that important, move it to a "List of Atypical Masturbation Aids" page or something. It can only serve to confuse those who don't already know what masturbation is. I thought it was a joke when I first saw it. Clearly others did too, as it was previously removed for supposed vandalism. The image wouldn't even be that bad if it were properly warranted. Different types of vibrators are NOT relevant to this article, and even if they were, I see no picture of a normal vibrator for comparison, nor is there any indication that this isn't just a regular bath toy aside from the caption. Since the originator doesn't seem to be backing down from the stance that it indeed belongs here, I am petitioning either an adjustment of the imagegbggggggggggg , or [more preferably] the removal of it entirely.
The article seems to imply that daily masturbation is not considered frequent and then it is totally normal in a consistent sexual relationships and marriage. I disagree.
It does state that masturbation decreases allot during a sex relationship but smudges the facts a little eluding to a daily basis
The article needs a study done as to exactly how much less a person masturbates when in a relationship from a more reliable source in addition to NOW magazine. And I still doubt that most teens masturbate daily.
Other points:
This just shows Wikipedia's extremist viewpoints from people, for example, who are extreme masturbators with a wild or more extreme lifestyle. Gosh I hope Wikipedia isn't an extremist sandbox.
I don't know the etymology of masturbation nor do I know if it derives form the word mezea. However there is no such a Greek word; neither for "penises" nor for anything else. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 146.124.141.250 ( talk • contribs) 2006-07-31 08:21:34 (UTC)
It is articles like this, that show the advantage Wikipedia has over other "authoritative" encyclopedias. The range and extent of information available in this page the the peer reviewed and objective evolution of this page without the political and religious overtones, provide something which is probably more representative than any source on topics such as this in recorded history. - User:aenertia - June 2006
Good comeback JFW. It is stupid to search for a certain page by typing the pages name in to get to it, you were looking for it, see? If you didn't want to see it you would never have seen it.
I believe that the statement is supported by the research cited in the "Health and Psychological Effects" section. Additionally, the use of the large hand and stop sign icon serves to draw the reader's attention to the summary warning, and to the "Health and Psychological Effects" section which it links to. John254 02:59, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that the Brody material has been put into a section called "Health and psychological effects", at the very top of a sub-section called "Risks" [my emphasis]. This clearly tells readers that these statistical correlations are being put forward by Wikipedia as important cause-and-effect risks, which is not the concensus: this is a minority viewpoint, based on one researcher's recent studies, with no known follow-up work. I think the Brody research should be given it's own little sub-section like we did some time ago with the research claiming that prone masturbation and pillow-humping were death-defyingly harmful. (Although I now see that that's been incorporated back into the end of "Risks".) Maybe just move Brody stuff to after that? -- Nigelj 21:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I masturbated by rubbing my penis against my bed almost every day, for at least 11 years. I have two children whom I engendered after this period. I have no erectile problems and continue to experience orgasm.
Since Sank "speculated" that prone masturbation caused these problems, based on only 4 individuals, and there is no research to back it up, we should delete this "risk" or modify this section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.230.150.7 ( talk • contribs)
I agree with the above statement. More research needs to be done to put that on this site. I have deleted the section because this data is not updated or adequate.
It appears that most of the material in the Masturbation techniques section is entirely unreferenced, in violation of Wikipedia:Verifiability, and possible original research by the author, in violation of Wikipedia:No original research. I therefore suggest that such unreferenced material be removed from the article. John254 02:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I think this page should be protected. 63.23.70.57 17:21, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
The article says girls masturbate once a day...is it bullshit or just i have never meet the right girls yet? None of my girlfriends, mostly collage students, would admit that!
What skinneyweed said. 63.23.68.145 00:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi. Is this picture appropriate for the article?
[6].
63.23.68.145
00:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Now thats just pornography, Hence not appropriate though it would be funny to see what would happen if that was added(if not just immediatly removed). The uproar it would cause, lol. -- Fabio 02:18, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the above statement, just as studies have found that women will, when asked lie about the number of sexual partners they have been with (stating they have been with less partners). In order to appear to conform to societies/male view of a women not being promiscuous. This same principal can be applied to masturbation, where by women will be misleading when asked about there masturbation habits. often either stating that they "do not masturbate" or "do not masturbate very often". Furthermore just as studies have dismantled the myth of womens lower numbers of sexual partners. So shall the myth of "Women masturbating less then men" be proved wrong.-- Fabio 02:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Women do not masturbate as much as men, surveys conducted in anonimity have concluded that. Unfortunately the female population is rapidly becoming more and more sickly perverted and many girls now masturbate more than they have in the past. Hopefully though, this trend will not continue. Editor18 08:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Women are more discrete about their masturbation and do not talk about it as much as men tend to, but studies have shown that women, on the average, masturbate as often as men. The average varies with age with the teens through 20's being higher than younger and older ages. In those age ranges an average of once a day is about right. Contrary to your opinion, masturbation is normal and healthy activity that has occured throughout the ages. I'd say that it is likely that your daughter masturbates about the same frequency that your sister, mother and grandmother did at a similar age. Atom 14:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually even in this wiki page it is conveyed that females masturbate less than males. Contrary to my opinion is what? Your opinion? No thank you, you state that almost as a fact when it is only your opinion as well. Fortunately no, neither of them conduct onanism as they are all deeply religious and moral people. Editor18 20:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I fail to see how the fact that people who are overweight masturbating more has to do with a risk. I'd think it would be pretty hard to find a partner. =D -- mboverload @ 07:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not disagreeing, I'm actually sure they are correct. However I fail to see how the fact that fat people masturbate more has any relevance to the topic. -- mboverload @ 11:10, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
This article is not a showcase for classical erotic art, you know. As part of encyclopedia dedicated to educating the public, this article should feature anatomically correct images of female and male masturbation. The old sketches of masturbation were informative yet not pornographic, and should therefore not have been removed. The current images are unencyclopedic, unscientific, and do not accurately visualize the act of masturbation. Sheesh, there are more explicit images in adolescents' guides to puberty. -- WGee 03:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia isn't censored. -- mboverload @ 03:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, we do not seem to be so far apart after all. It comes down to the artistic representation you like versus the one I like. You feel that the images I removed were more illustrative, I feel otherwise. I removed the old ones because having both sets would have been redundant, and I felt these new images to be way superior - clearer, more interesting, more varied, and yes, more beautiful. I still do, but I will not oppose you if you choose to add the others back in. And I do not agree with you about the "anatomical correctness" bit. It seems a bit of a red herring to me. All we are doing is comparing one artistic representation against another, after all. Haiduc 01:27, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that it would be appropriate to include an photo image of male masturbation as there is currently a very appropriate one for female masturbation. Any objections? User:Svartulfr1 17:48, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I added and edited a paragraph in Female to read as follows:
"Some women and men masturbate by inserting objects into the urethra, such as urethral sounds. This practice is known as "sounding" [7]. Sometimes other objects are used (e.g. ball point pens, glass thermometers), although this is a potentially dangerous technique which can cause injury and infection [8]."
Even though I opened with "women and men", I kept it in Female because I could think of no other place to put it and feel it's fine where it is. Thoughts? Ideas? - Jaguara said OWWWWCH! at 18:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I masturbated for 2 days and it killed me user:111
Don't you all think that the Masturbation article needs a real picture of a man and/or woman masturbating?
Only if it's a hot women. Seriously, there's no way you could keep a guy whacking off up there. -- mboverload @ 02:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Personally I agree that an actual photographic image of a male and female masturbating would be appropriate for this article. It would be better than simple sketched images. They would need to be tasteful. Personally, I think that the current actual image of a female masturbating is a good example of this. User:Svartulfr1 17:54 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Well it appears that the image of a real woman masturbating was removed. Personally, I found the picture appropriate for an uncensored encyclopedia project. It was just a typical woman masturbating. It wasn't a picture from a pornographic site or anything like that. It was not obscene. Also, I do think that there should be a picture of a man masturbating as well. The sketches just don't seem to be adequate for their purpose. Lets do this the right way... The one who did the edit and removed the picture wants to discuss this before adding more pics. People adding more pics at this point will likely just result in a revert war. Therefore, lets talk it out and come to a consensus now. User:Svartulfr1 5:20 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I think I just solved your dilemma. Instead of using offensive, pornographic images, I've uploaded an enactment/demonstration of the posture. It's better than the drawings and doesn't have the taboo of showing someone masturbating. This is a photo I created myself. Personally, find masturbation offensive and I did this to help ease some consciences. (I just got my wikipedia account-- what a way to start off, eh?) (My upload is "Enactment of Human Male Masturbation.jpg") We'll see how it works out. -- User:678901 17:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, pictures are needed, even of a natural human behavior, as bad as that may be for those in denial of themselves. -- Trevor100a 21:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC) File:Ejaculation sample.jpg
Here is another picture,i believe these pictures are great for teens who want to learn how to masturbate:[URL= http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image002po4.jpg][IMG] http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1758/image002po4.jpg
Thanks for offering your image, Trevor. I note that the image has no tag showing it's copyright status, and will be deleted soon if you don't fix that.
It's a picture of himself.
I removed the sentence from the Religion section that said Buddhism and Unitarian Universalism ignore masturbation, because it was inaccurate. The article speaks to Buddhism's views not two paragraphs down, and Unitarian Universalist sexual education (AYS-About Your Sexuality, and later OWL-Our Whole Lives) actively incorporate discussion about masturbation as normal and healthy. 72.200.191.145 21:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
"Masturbation is universally legal"; I'm certain this is incorrect. See elsewhere in the page where it talks about the Islamic views on masturbation, and apply to Islamic countries. I've heard on one news source about it even having "beheading" as the penalty, however that particular instance may have been a fiction, as it was immediately followed by "but they didn't say which head". -- 81.174.210.207 23:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC) ( User:Whitepaw, not logged in too lazy).
At 14:56 on 27 July 2006, Logan.aggregate tagged this page with a template suggesting that it be split into separate articles accessible from a disambiguation page. He made the edit comment "This page is obviously too long". The template suggests that the matter be discussed on the article's talk page, and he added the anonymous comment, "This page is not an encyclopedia entry, it's an exhaustive diatribe. Seriously, somebody's compensating" at the top of this talk page.
Do others feel the need to discuss the issue? The page is currently 48 KB long, including 11.4 KB (11,625 B) of references, citations and cross-references at the end. WP:SIZE suggests a max page size of 32 KB, but says, "this once hard and fast rule has been softened and many articles exist which are over 32 KB of total text" It also makes a point about "readable prose", which "excludes: external links, further reading, references, footnotes, see also, and similar sections; tables, list-like sections, and similar content; and markup, interwiki links, URLs and similar formatting". None-the-less, some sections could be moved off into sub-articles, if a consensus wants that. -- Nigelj 21:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't know how something done to your genticals can have an effect on your eyes.
DOES IT?
want an article on intellectual masturbation, cheers.
This article needs to be expanded and have a section about teens and masturbation in this article.
So Be bold, and write it! We look forward to your contributions. -- Mnemeson 19:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Teen masturbation is very common
^You dont say/sarcasm. I think that a section on this is important since a lot of adults forget what it was like to be a teen and seem to think that no child would masturbate, although the reality is that even by the age of 12, nearly everyone masturbates, and very frequently.
Discussion on Guidelines for images in Sexology and Sexuality articles | |
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Image:Masturbation techniques.jpg has been removed from this page twice in the last 24 hours by anon users. I am adding this section to the talk page so that if they think it's unencyclopedic they can come and talk about it rather than just deleting it unilaterally. For myself, I think it's a good and clear illustration of what we're talking about and that it should stay. Whether it stays or not, though, I'd rather it was discussed rather than simply deleted without discussion. The Wednesday Island 16:17, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I've given it some thought, and I think that the two drawings are representative of the article pretty well, and I'm not sure anything else is necessary. Neither they, nor the pictures of real persons help the article by showing historical or technical attributes of the article. Probably only one drawing would be sufficient to make the point. I suppose if we did that someone would complain. Also, we could reverse the order with woman first and them man, which might be nicer. There is also another drawn image of a womanmasturbating that I like better than this one see image, see: File:Masturbation feminine 4.jpg.
Also, there are others File:Masturbation feminine 2.jpg, File:Masturbation feminine 3.jpg, File:Masturbation feminine 3.jpg, File:Female masturbation 5.jpg, File:Female masturbation 6.jpg
If we want with just one intro image, to visually introduce the article, this one might be better
Others I do not prefer include: File:(5).jpg File:Erectpeniswhilemasturbating.jpg File:Femmasturbation.JPG File:IMG129.jpg File:Man masturbates.jpg File:Man masturbates2.jpg An editor has nominated the above file for discussion of its purpose and/or potential deletion. You are welcome to participate in the discussion and help reach a consensus.
I am going to try the Klimt Muhler version, and let's see how long it flies until we get reverted by someone who is offended by artwork?
Atom 12:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I like this image best to represent female masturbation:
File:Masturbation techniques.jpg and I am not picky about which one is used for male masturbation, but
File:Man masturbates.jpg illustrates it pretty well. I prefer real photos to sketches. What is the point really of just a sketch versus the real thing?
User:Svartulfr1 15:32 25 August 2006 (UTC)
The reason that we don't want a potentially erotic image is not because of censorship, but because we want the visually oriented person to instantly recognize what the topic is without being distracted in other ways. The reaosn I like the current (Klimt Muhler) version is because it is one image, and the sex of the person isn't important, and yet anyone seeing it instantly understand the topic, and yet even the most prudish person would likely not find it offensive. Atom 22:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree that Image:Masturbation techniques.jpg is a good image, and i'd say photos rather than sketches are always best, as has been said by numerous users above. I actually think a sketch seems more pornographic, in that it's drawing attention to the fact that this is a naughty taboo subject, too obscene to be shown in real life, which is nonsense, it's just a subject lke any other. I much prefer the honesty of a photo: 'yeah she's masturbating, she had her photo taken, so what, get over it.' There should be a similar image for male masturbation, none of those above are as tasteful as Image:Masturbation techniques.jpg, but i'd suggest using one of those if they're the best available. Do we need to have some sort of vote to reinstate the image? Will that work? Spute 22:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I think the article should have both a photo of a woman masturbating and a photo of a man masturbating. In the current version, there isn't even a drawing of a man masturbating alone (except the satyrs, but they're not even human!). Masturbation techniques.jpg should be the lead image, since it's the best photo we have. Mushroom ( Talk) 22:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I disagree, one photo is sufficient to introduce, that's my opinion. As for hurrying to a decision, we have gotten some input in only 24 hours, there is no need to hurry. Give it a few more days, let's see if there is a clear consensus. Maybe a few more pictures worthy of consideration will surface? Atom 00:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I followed the advice of some of the users that intervened by sending me messages encouraging me to upload my photo to commons.wikimedia.org. Thanks to all of you. < http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Geil31f.jpg> Ti_mi 17:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Now we just need to get that image back in the article. I think it belongs there more than any of the other images that are currently there or which have been debated about being there. Svartulfr1 02:35 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I have an image to consider. This is not actually a man masturbating, but is a demonstration of the posture. Yours for consideration. [See topic "Real Picture" above.] -- 678901 21:17, 31 August 2006.
I see that the images have been added now. Are these the ones everyone is happy with? I'm not too crazy about the male picture (Man masturbates.jpg). It doesn't seem to demonstrate well enough, which is what I think you would want for an encyclopedia. The clothes seem to get in the way, too. Something else to consider: the process will be a little different depending on whether or not the individual is circumcised. Should we consider two male photographs? Also, if you could explain why you do and do not like certain photographs, it would be a little more helpful. -- 678901 20:18, 5 September 2006. <-- Removed and re-added.
The consensus reached here through discussion seems to have been totally useless since anonymous users as well as user Future either insert images never discussed or delete was has been restored, notably Image:Masturbation techniques.jpg. The image itself has been deleted altogether from the data base by user JoshuaZ with the consequence that it is no longer visible here and that the whole section of discussing the "New Image" has become pointless. This is vandalism in a most irritating way. In the meantime, I have deleted all images in the controversial first section on masturbation. CarlosLuis 2:25, 6 September 2006.
What about images in motion, .gifs and such?
Robert
23:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, I got my photo fixed (it took me long enough). I had lost the original and had to redo the enactment. I think the second picture came out better anyway; I had more of an erection this time and I grasped further down, so you get a better picture of what is happening. -- 678901 19:15, 19 September 2006
Enactments shouldn't be considered "risk photos" (Like the photos CarlosLuis described). Perhaps we should get a few more to choose from, let everyone decide on a male and female photo, then add them to the page as linked photos (perhaps with a warning). Lets make this as much an encyclopedia as possible with the contents being as tasteful as possible! -- 678901 13:37, 20 September 2006
This discussion of images applies to numerous other articles, most of the sexology and sexuality oriented. I have begun a discussion of the broader topic on Wikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality/WIP-image-guidelines to have people participate in working on a guideline consensus (not a policy, or rules, as that hasn't been possible in the past). Having a consensus of people who have hashed this out and agreed on some guidelines will help in the future to combat against the types of problems we have had in the past. (Prudish people pushing their POV, Trolls trying to create controversy, Vanity images, etc.) Of course it won't be a solution to all problems, and they will still need to be dealt with on a case by case basis, but there really isn't a need to rehash the entire barrel of pickles on every image on every sexuality based page, and then again when someone tries to change an image. Atom 02:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
-- To solve the problem of undecided content, content that encourages vandalism, viewers being exposed to things they don't want to be exposed to and to expand the informativeness with more descriptive illustrations.
I've been giving this a lot of thought and I think the article needs to be redone in its presentation a little. Here is what I'd like to see. Tell me if others agree. Lets see if we can provide all of the content in a manner that doesn't encourage vandalism.
Goal:
*To be as sensitive as possible
*No photographs of people actually masturbating (photographs demonstrating the position are fine). Illustrations and art are also good. <- no "risk photos"
*To provide as much information as possible (clear visuals are a must).
*To choose pictures 'most' everyone is happy with.
The problem with this kind of thing is that not everyone can be happy with the decisions reached, and there is nothing stopping the unhappy people from having their way. Please be courteous and stand down of your idea is overruled.
Minor change in structure:
Give feedback and we can work on this together.
Pictures to include: This is a scratch board below. Change it if you have a better suggestion and explain why you think your suggestion is better. After the pictures have remained for a while we can conclude that it is what everyone has decided on. -- 678901
Female File:Masturbation feminine 4.jpg
Male File:Enactment of Human Male Masturbation.jpg
Masturbation frequency, age and sex File:Satirello che ne masturba un altro - Roma, Museo di Villa Giulia, foto di Giovanni Dall'Orto - marzo 2005.jpg
Masturbation in history and society File:Masturbating satyr, amasis painter.JPG
Masturbation Aids (if this topic is to be) File:Canard vibrant.jpg
[User:678901|678901]] 13:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
First, I want to say that I think we have already found a balance with the way that the article is now. I don't know that we need to talk about changing it.
Second, I appreciate the way that you are approaching the issue, in an attempt to find a consensus more toward your position. I'm not certain that we disagree substantially, but some of the things suggested above I'm not entirely in disagreement with.
Third, Wikpedia has standards on this. Although it is dfficult to find, and intepretation is subjective, there is guidance, and we should follow that.
Fourth, you suggest the following things:
Atom 19:42, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Atom,
I'm not saying that we should claim that the article is erotic/shameful. We can reword the warning. I'm just saying we should give people a heads-up before they dive into an article that has content of this nature. There are countless millions of people out there who would disagree with your view of masturbation being okay and would consider it erotic. We should be sensitive to them and not try to impose views on them like 'masturbation is okay' or 'masturbation is not okay.'
You may not say that there is any difference in a photograph demonstrating a position and a photograph of some one masturbating, because your view is that it is okay. But, again, lets be sensitive to people who do not share your views, to them there IS a big difference. One is a sexual act, and the other is nudity.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should consider all the views and try to be as neutral as possible. And it may require a little notice at the top of the page so that people know what they are going to see before they themselves choose to view the page. There is actually some controversy here whether most of us want to admit it or not.
You want to keep within the Shocking_Images policy: You yourself called this a natural human behavior and not including adequate illustrations would "cause the article to be less informative" in my opinion. I'll bet that most people here feel the same way. The topic is "Masturbation" which is an action that has two types of occurrences: Male and Female. I'd say that an image of some sort would help clarify that. Also, by including linked photographs we help remove some of the shock of these Shocking_Images, further complying with the policy.
You also talked about how the image should be the best image to illustrate the point. This is why I favor enactments. Actual photographs are controversial and could have the taboo of someone performing a sexual act; enactments of someone demonstrating the pose are less controversial (though I do admit there are still probably some who would find it offensive); and next comes drawings, which are not very descriptive, but could be an alternative if nothing else works out. Showing a photograph of someone in a position (an actual position used in masturbation) seems to be the best trade-off. The enactments can be accurate, more descriptive than a drawing and not have the effect of knowing that the individual in the photograph is performing a sexual act. This is for education alone. If you were trying to educate a group of college students, studying sexuality and foreign to the idea of masturbation (if it were possible). would you A) Masturbate in front of them, B) Show them what it looks like, but not perform the act in front of them, or C) Show them a sketch of something that could give them a vague idea of what might be happening. I assume that everyone would choose C. Now, if you take the embarrassment out of the equation, and remove all social consequences, and it was a purely educational event, very possibly B) would be more informative. Most people would agree, though, that A) is not even an option. The primary objective of Wikipedia is education. Pretending that the readers are your students helps keep things in perspective.
You also said that we should not consider whether or not a photograph is considered embarrassing, but we should just use what adds to the article. If it was just that the photo is embarrassing, it would be okay. But these photos can be considered offensive. We SHOULD consider whether or not a photograph is considered offensive. You, yourself, seem to hold this view with your comment of following the Shocking_Images policy. -- 678901 22:29, 21 September 2006
Perhaps a better warning would be: "Warning! This page contains content that may not be suitable for everyone. Wikipedia is not censored; proceed with discretion." -- 678901
I understand what you are trying to get at, and I respect it. My concern though, is that the defintion of obscene, offensive, or even embarrassing is subjective, and differs on a person by person basic, and can be affected by culture, religion, age, gender, and any number of other factors. Even if we were to agree (which is not likely on Wikipedia) to follow the lowest common denominator, we would likely still have people complain. Even were we to agree that the criteria were 1) No Pornographic images, 2) Must have direct applicability to the topic, and 3) The best image we have available to illistrate the point, we run into the subjectivity issue. In the U.S. (Wikipedia servers in State of Florida) it isn't important if it is offensive or embarrasing, it can't be obscene. Obscene, unfortunately, is a subjective interpretation. For something to be "obscene" it must be shown that the average person, applying contemporary community standards and viewing the material as a whole, would find (1) that the work appeals predominantly to "prurient" interest; (2) that it depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way; and (3) that it lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.
My assumption is that you are operating on good faith, with the best interests of Wikipedia here. I find that numerous people go into Wikipedia and feel that it is important that they impose their moral values and perspectives on others, and try to hold others to those values. Assuming that your intention is different, and that you are trying to make the best quality article while offending people as little as possible, there have to be some agreed upon policy or standards Wikipedia wide, not just for this article. (I edit all of the sexology and sexuality articles, and this issue is relevent to numerous articles, including Clitoris, Penis, Anus, Breast, Orgy, Kama Sutra, Creampie (sexual act), BDSM, Scrotum, Pegging, Fellatio, Cunnilingus, Dildo, Anal beads, Sexual Intercourse, mutual masturbation, Anal-oral contact, deep throat, tribadism, and frot among others. Again, see Wikipedia:Graphic and potentially disturbing images and how it failed to resolve anything. In fact, the majority (33-4) voted for "Do nothing now, as there's not really a problem now. Revist this if it ever becomes a widespread problem that can't adequately be handled on a case by case basis on individual article talk pages as it is now. Policy should only ever be developed on an as needed basis, as excessive policy is both wasteful and harmful. Shane King 00:54, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC) "
As you point out, certainly Wikipedia:Profanity#Shocking_images is a guideline we want to try and follow. Remember that we all use WIkipedia under Wikipedia:Content_disclaimer, which includes "Wikipedia contains many different images, some of which are considered objectionable or offensive by some readers. For example, some articles contain graphical depictions of violence, or depictions of human anatomy. ". Clearly if we feel an image will add quality to the article, and we have a selection of images available, we should gain consensus on whichof those images best illustrates the point, while having the least possibility of offending. That will continue to be a case by case analysis.
Atom 23:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
No warning is necessary, we do not need to cater to people who are embarrassed about sex. Nor do we need to reorganiza and modify images wholesale - when better ones come along let's by all means include them, but I saw no such images in the group above. Haiduc 00:07, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, it appears that the majority will not want a warning. I guess it goes along with the uncensored thing, that people should proceed through the whole wikipedia knowing what they might expect. I think it would be a good idea, but if most of you feel the same way I'll back off from pushing for it. But I still think that using actual masturbation photographs is a bad idea. Wikipedia has policies. If we can't agree on the type of photographs we should use the sketches.
About the obscene variable. Atom, you said the images are permitted for science. Would education be too much of a stretch? If not, the order of obscene is: actual photograph, enactment photograph, sketch. And we should choose one kind of illustration that is the best balance between informative and obscene.
If you have a better idea for the images to use, please change the image in the scratch board I made above. Then, we'll talk about it. Most of it is the current state of the article. I've changed a few things (example: I think the extra chastity belt is redundant). Now, modify them and we'll discuss them.
I think we're clear that there are two main groups here: The group that says any image that adds to the topic goes, and the group (mainly me) that says we cannot do that because Wikipedia has set standards; call them standards to be offensive or not. <-- I'm sorry but that's how I see it! Keep posting comments this is what the discussion is for.
But Atom is right about obscenity being an important consideration. -- 678901
Someone just put up a new picture. This is not what we have agreed upon. -- 678901
Some unpleasant character blanked a lot of important information from this article - including nearly all of the references and citations (so, for an anon, they knew what they were doing ;-) - in one big edit yesterday. Nobody seeemed to notice and so it was not reverted at the time. Instead, well-meaning people have been tidying up and trying to make sense of what's left. I'm just looking through the other edits since the vandalism with a view to reverting the whole article back to before that edit - I've tried putting it back bit-by-bit and it's too hard, especially including edit conflicts with people trying to tidy the remainder while I try to reinstate! -- Nigelj 20:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I had a user complain about my earlier edit removing the fleshlight when the Tenga was left in.
I created a section at the end, for reference, and put them there, and took them out of the main article.
I'm not convinced that they need to be there(at the end) either, but thought I would try to be fair. The argument is that these devices are a tool for helping men masturbate. (as if we/they need any more help!?)
Let's see if the new section lasts, or is vaporized. Either way, no concern to me. Atom 21:03, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Several people have complained about various edits putting in Fleshlight, Tenga and other male masturbation aids. The latest one moved Fleshlight into the references because it was notable enough to have a wikipedia article, and then delete the other, Tenga, as commercial spam. I really don't care, but if these are valid aids, and many people use them, let's find the way that we can refer to them without commercial spam, all agree, and do it that way rather than removing them and re-adding them. Atom 21:03, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm fine with having the Fleshlight reference in that special section you created. But not the Tenga links, because they are outside the Wikipedia. If Tenga is really notable or worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, let whoever cares enough create a page for it and let that page survive or be deleted on its own merits. IMHO sneaking in these links to Tenga is a way around the requirement that material on Wikipedia should be notable (sorry, I'm not enough of a wiki-expert to reference the rules requirement directly). We all know whats really going on here. Nowadays Wikipedia traffic is very valuable and leads to lots of sales. And Wikipedia shows up in the first results for many google searches so having your product mentioned on Wikipedia is a great way to get traffic. The Fleshlight page has already survived two concerted attempts to delete it, and thus is notable by concensus. Let's apply the same standard to all products.
And either way, a *SINGLE LINK* to Tenga is all that should be allowed, if even that.
On second thought, isnt this inevitably gonna lead to a special section being created for Female Masturbation Aids? And then the floodgates will really open with a lot of products fighting for having a reference or link in that section.... You may want to consider that.
Sheesh, never mind. :) That didnt survive very long.
Also it looks like the multiple (I count 3) links to Tenga are still there? So do you want to have an edit war? I'm up for it and I feel completely justified. user:192.18.43.10
First of all, when anonymous users who aren't registered make changes, many wikipedians are suspicious that it is yet another vandalism attempt. My suggestion is that you would gain more credibility if you signed in and created a user page for yourself. Another point is, if you aren't aware of how to sign your name after your comments, people wonder about your credibility as an editor, and your familiarity with the Wikipedia rules. Just put four tildes after your comments, please. "~~~~
Secondly, both the Fleshlight and the Tenga are commercial products. Fleshlight has no special notability. It is true that it has a wikipedia page, and that's nice, but doesn't make it non-commercial.
There is alot of information that is referenced in the various external links sections of hundreds of articles that are not notable. Notability is not required in order for it to be listed as an external reference, or under a See Also or similar. Some consensus on notability is required for it to have its own wikipedia article.
If we are going to have some commercial products listed, as long as it seems a valid benefit, and on topic, and we aren't pointing to a commercial site, I don't see the problem. The fleshlight and tenga references both do not point to commercial sites. The Fleshlight point to the Wiki article, and the Tenga points to a web Blog where it is reviewed (no place to purchase).
OR we could just decide, per your rationale, to not allow any references to commercial products. I'm not sure what your issue is with the Tenga, as it looks like a pretty cool competitor to the Fleshlight. Once it is less new, I'm sure it will be as notable as with Fleshlight is, as they are essentially the same product. (Although the Tenga has a cooler design, IMO).
In any event, words like (and I am quoting) "So do you want to have an edit war? I'm up for it and I feel completely justified." don't fit into the wikipedia rules. Please see Wikipedia:Five_pillars. I have put it, and some other useful stuff on your web page at User:192.18.43.10. I also think Wikipedia:Civility and Wikipedia:Etiquette are beneficial.
Generally when there is a difference of opinion on things, we allow BOTH perspectives to be expressed, and then see if we can use the talk page to gain consensus.
Please feel free to leave me a message on my talk( User_Talk:Atomaton) page if I can be helpful in assisting you. Atom 21:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I think a brief discussion of both male and female masturbation aids is appropriate with links to appropriate articles in Wikipedia where available. We don't need to provide links to company webpages where toys can be purchased. If people want to buy toys, they can find them without Wikipedia's aid well enough, but certainly some discussion of masturbation aids is both relevant and appropriate for this article to be complete.
Svartulfr1 02:38 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I find it strange that Wikipedia contributions are judged by whom they come from rather than on content. Is Wikipedia evolving into a reputation system now? Why then even support anonymous editing? My contributions were on-topic and according to all the guidelines that I know (I probably don't know all the guidelines). I expressed my opinions as best I could, and I stated that I feel strongly about being in the right here, so that it would lead to either a civil discussion or an edit war. I offered to take up the civil discussion alternative :)
My rationale for allowing links or disallowing them is simple. If you think something should be linked to, from Wikipedia, IMHO it should be notable and significant, and so these things justify it having a Wikipedia page of its own. Therefore the logical conclusion is that if you want to link to Tenga's product page, you should really confine those links to Tenga's own Wikipedia page and link instead from here to that Wikipedia page. I'm not opposed to links to commercial sites, but a link from this page to *one* particular commercial site designed to sell *one* particular product, is IMHO out of place and invites an inevitable edit war where other product proponents will claim the right to have *their* link also represented. I don't think we want to go there.
And no, I'm not going to bother to register, because that would just strengthen your argument that contributions from named members are somehow more valuable, an argument I find really strange and at odds with Wikipedia's whole approach. 192.18.43.11 17:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree with the anonymous user from 192.18.43.11, the Tenga should have its own wikipedia page and all links to Tenga sites should be from that page. I'd welcome seeing more resources about Tenga, such as is it suited to the American market, who distributes it here, and so on. Start your own page, and link from here, by all means! 209.233.24.218 01:00, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
This section in the beginning, re "mutual masturbation", is confusing: "either by oneself or by another" -- is that really "BY another" or "WITH another" ? Surely a handjob wouldn't count as "autoeroticism"?
I've started an archive at April 2006 – July 2006 but haven't had a chance to finish. Add as you will. -- BillWeiss | Talk 04:43, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I just removed the half-sentence from "though this is" to "support it" as it was inserted by an anonymous user (yes, like me) without giving sources. So I deducted that it was very biased pro-circ and deliberately vandalizing the article. After all, let's not forget that masturbation was the reason circumcision was installed as a national habit in the US in the first place. So pro-circers cannot have a word in this article, I believe. Not without citing good sources that is.
The sentence now reads: "Although there are countless masturbation techniques for men, uncircumcised males are said to have more sexual arousal than circumcised males due to the rubbing of the foreskin on the glans."
If anybody feels like deleting that, too, because it admittedly sounds more like hearsay than good WP style, I have no objection. But the other part of that sentence definitely had to go, I believe:
"though this is a widely disputed claim with only mild anectdotal evidence to support it."
Terms like "widely disputed" and "mild anecdotal" (even spelt incorrectly through to the very last previous version) are clearly not NPOV.
The insertion of the deleted part was made 10:19, 25 August 2006 under IP 67.183.117.8
87.78.178.102 16:42, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Hello people wake up! I post here a website which - in my opinion - shows the truth of masturbation. Please consider it and make a link to this page. Even if you don't believe it maybe someone will. It can help many people to face the truth about this "vice". I'm not a vandal and/or crazy, please consider it. I'd experienced it on myself. Thanks.
http://www.anael.org/english/masturbation/index.htm
P.S. Wikipedia masturbation is the first page which opens when you seek 'masturbation', so it could be helpful.
11:36 AM, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I dunno, because there are no bad "consequences"?
I like this quote from your web site best, I think, "Vice of masturbation totally ruins the brain's potency. It is necessary to know of an intimate relation between semen and brain. It is necessary to semen the brain and to brain the semen. To semen the brain is possible by transmuting the sexual energy, sublimating it, turning it into brain's potency. In this form we can semen the brain and brain the semen".
Atom 12:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it's sad but true...
I note that "onanism" redirects here, which it maybe shouldn't - I'm aware that some people use the word to mean masturbation, but doesn't it actually refer to the wasting of seed (i.e. any kind of non-procreative male orgasm)? This was kind of an obessession in late C19 France, which I'm currently working on, see. Ajcounter 10:18, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually it referse to disobeying god and being struck down. Onanism, has nothing to do with masturbation, or "spilling seed". (See Onan). "Onan was required by the tradition of levirate marriage to marry Er's widow Tamar. According to Genesis 38:7-9, when he had sexual intercourse with Tamar he "spilt his seed upon the ground" because the resulting child would be considered his late brother's, not his. In response to this transgression, God killed Onan. The transgression was disobeying God, not spilling his seed upon the ground"
Onanism is linked to masturbation. Masturbation unless based on a fantasy of your bride is a sin, and the term for that sin is onanism.
Editor18
08:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
While I do not oppose the use of paintings, carvings et cetera in the article, I can not find a reason why there would be no accurate/real pictures of masturbation. -- A Sunshade Lust 22:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't see us getting a reputation for pornography anytime soon. I haven't seen any pornography on Wikipedia, and I edit all of the sexology and sexuality pages. Maybe Wikipedia will get a reputation like National Geographic had at one time, but that is okay. The images are normal, healthy images of sexuality, not porn. Maybe someone will learn something? Atom 00:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
We are working on guidelines for images on sexology and sexuality articles at Wikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality/WIP-image-guidelines. Johntex is one of the people participating. The first thing mentioned is that Wikipedia does not Censor. We do have editorial choices in choosing images that are best for the quality of the article, while minimizing the risk of offending people. The reputation of Wikipedia is that it is "real" about "real" things, and does not censor. Not censoring, and allowing illegal images are entirely different things. For one user a picture of a male anus (see anus may offensive. For someone else, a picture of a woman may be offensive. Neither are pornographic, or illegal in the United States. Given a choice of images, the image the portrays the concept of the sectio of the article, while minimizing the potential for offense should be chosen. Atom 20:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
According to news reports of IM conversations reprinted on Wikipedia, the page Foley communicated with masturbates in the face-down position, making him a practitioner of "traumatic masturnatory syndrome" as described in this article. Should this be noted somewhere? This is the first "famous" practitioner of TMS that has been reported, even if he is still anonymous. 4.156.84.92 20:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
The article doesn't say what percentage of people (male/female) masturbates overall! It only says how many start at a particular age, not how many start at all. Paranoid 08:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
"Standing up, the corner of an item of furniture, or even a washing machine, can be used to stimulate the clitoris through the labia and clothing."
Brian Hamilton's assertion that uncircumcised is wrong is itself flawed. "Intact" is a weak, non-specific word - read as "nothing's happened" whereas "uncircumsised" is a much stronger term, asserting that it is circumcision that is being discussed, not general wear and tear, or getting it caught in your zip. With regard his suggestion that the word implies that it should have happened, but didn't, that is simply wrong: if your football/baseball team has an uninterupted string of victories, do you read that as meaning that they should have lost a game, but didn't? If a broadway show is "Unmissable" do you understand that to mean that it should be missable, but manages to escape missability? If your Wikipedia edits are "unmisstakable" does that mean that by some fluke your ordinary, misstakable edits are distinct from the next guys? No uncircumcised accurately emphasises the point that circumcision has not taken place. -- Bilbo B 07:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
If it's really that important, move it to a "List of Atypical Masturbation Aids" page or something. It can only serve to confuse those who don't already know what masturbation is. I thought it was a joke when I first saw it. Clearly others did too, as it was previously removed for supposed vandalism. The image wouldn't even be that bad if it were properly warranted. Different types of vibrators are NOT relevant to this article, and even if they were, I see no picture of a normal vibrator for comparison, nor is there any indication that this isn't just a regular bath toy aside from the caption. Since the originator doesn't seem to be backing down from the stance that it indeed belongs here, I am petitioning either an adjustment of the imagegbggggggggggg , or [more preferably] the removal of it entirely.
The article seems to imply that daily masturbation is not considered frequent and then it is totally normal in a consistent sexual relationships and marriage. I disagree.
It does state that masturbation decreases allot during a sex relationship but smudges the facts a little eluding to a daily basis
The article needs a study done as to exactly how much less a person masturbates when in a relationship from a more reliable source in addition to NOW magazine. And I still doubt that most teens masturbate daily.
Other points:
This just shows Wikipedia's extremist viewpoints from people, for example, who are extreme masturbators with a wild or more extreme lifestyle. Gosh I hope Wikipedia isn't an extremist sandbox.
I don't know the etymology of masturbation nor do I know if it derives form the word mezea. However there is no such a Greek word; neither for "penises" nor for anything else. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 146.124.141.250 ( talk • contribs) 2006-07-31 08:21:34 (UTC)
It is articles like this, that show the advantage Wikipedia has over other "authoritative" encyclopedias. The range and extent of information available in this page the the peer reviewed and objective evolution of this page without the political and religious overtones, provide something which is probably more representative than any source on topics such as this in recorded history. - User:aenertia - June 2006
Good comeback JFW. It is stupid to search for a certain page by typing the pages name in to get to it, you were looking for it, see? If you didn't want to see it you would never have seen it.
I believe that the statement is supported by the research cited in the "Health and Psychological Effects" section. Additionally, the use of the large hand and stop sign icon serves to draw the reader's attention to the summary warning, and to the "Health and Psychological Effects" section which it links to. John254 02:59, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that the Brody material has been put into a section called "Health and psychological effects", at the very top of a sub-section called "Risks" [my emphasis]. This clearly tells readers that these statistical correlations are being put forward by Wikipedia as important cause-and-effect risks, which is not the concensus: this is a minority viewpoint, based on one researcher's recent studies, with no known follow-up work. I think the Brody research should be given it's own little sub-section like we did some time ago with the research claiming that prone masturbation and pillow-humping were death-defyingly harmful. (Although I now see that that's been incorporated back into the end of "Risks".) Maybe just move Brody stuff to after that? -- Nigelj 21:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I masturbated by rubbing my penis against my bed almost every day, for at least 11 years. I have two children whom I engendered after this period. I have no erectile problems and continue to experience orgasm.
Since Sank "speculated" that prone masturbation caused these problems, based on only 4 individuals, and there is no research to back it up, we should delete this "risk" or modify this section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.230.150.7 ( talk • contribs)
I agree with the above statement. More research needs to be done to put that on this site. I have deleted the section because this data is not updated or adequate.
It appears that most of the material in the Masturbation techniques section is entirely unreferenced, in violation of Wikipedia:Verifiability, and possible original research by the author, in violation of Wikipedia:No original research. I therefore suggest that such unreferenced material be removed from the article. John254 02:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I think this page should be protected. 63.23.70.57 17:21, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
The article says girls masturbate once a day...is it bullshit or just i have never meet the right girls yet? None of my girlfriends, mostly collage students, would admit that!
What skinneyweed said. 63.23.68.145 00:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi. Is this picture appropriate for the article?
[6].
63.23.68.145
00:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Now thats just pornography, Hence not appropriate though it would be funny to see what would happen if that was added(if not just immediatly removed). The uproar it would cause, lol. -- Fabio 02:18, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the above statement, just as studies have found that women will, when asked lie about the number of sexual partners they have been with (stating they have been with less partners). In order to appear to conform to societies/male view of a women not being promiscuous. This same principal can be applied to masturbation, where by women will be misleading when asked about there masturbation habits. often either stating that they "do not masturbate" or "do not masturbate very often". Furthermore just as studies have dismantled the myth of womens lower numbers of sexual partners. So shall the myth of "Women masturbating less then men" be proved wrong.-- Fabio 02:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Women do not masturbate as much as men, surveys conducted in anonimity have concluded that. Unfortunately the female population is rapidly becoming more and more sickly perverted and many girls now masturbate more than they have in the past. Hopefully though, this trend will not continue. Editor18 08:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Women are more discrete about their masturbation and do not talk about it as much as men tend to, but studies have shown that women, on the average, masturbate as often as men. The average varies with age with the teens through 20's being higher than younger and older ages. In those age ranges an average of once a day is about right. Contrary to your opinion, masturbation is normal and healthy activity that has occured throughout the ages. I'd say that it is likely that your daughter masturbates about the same frequency that your sister, mother and grandmother did at a similar age. Atom 14:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually even in this wiki page it is conveyed that females masturbate less than males. Contrary to my opinion is what? Your opinion? No thank you, you state that almost as a fact when it is only your opinion as well. Fortunately no, neither of them conduct onanism as they are all deeply religious and moral people. Editor18 20:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I fail to see how the fact that people who are overweight masturbating more has to do with a risk. I'd think it would be pretty hard to find a partner. =D -- mboverload @ 07:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not disagreeing, I'm actually sure they are correct. However I fail to see how the fact that fat people masturbate more has any relevance to the topic. -- mboverload @ 11:10, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
This article is not a showcase for classical erotic art, you know. As part of encyclopedia dedicated to educating the public, this article should feature anatomically correct images of female and male masturbation. The old sketches of masturbation were informative yet not pornographic, and should therefore not have been removed. The current images are unencyclopedic, unscientific, and do not accurately visualize the act of masturbation. Sheesh, there are more explicit images in adolescents' guides to puberty. -- WGee 03:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia isn't censored. -- mboverload @ 03:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, we do not seem to be so far apart after all. It comes down to the artistic representation you like versus the one I like. You feel that the images I removed were more illustrative, I feel otherwise. I removed the old ones because having both sets would have been redundant, and I felt these new images to be way superior - clearer, more interesting, more varied, and yes, more beautiful. I still do, but I will not oppose you if you choose to add the others back in. And I do not agree with you about the "anatomical correctness" bit. It seems a bit of a red herring to me. All we are doing is comparing one artistic representation against another, after all. Haiduc 01:27, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that it would be appropriate to include an photo image of male masturbation as there is currently a very appropriate one for female masturbation. Any objections? User:Svartulfr1 17:48, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I added and edited a paragraph in Female to read as follows:
"Some women and men masturbate by inserting objects into the urethra, such as urethral sounds. This practice is known as "sounding" [7]. Sometimes other objects are used (e.g. ball point pens, glass thermometers), although this is a potentially dangerous technique which can cause injury and infection [8]."
Even though I opened with "women and men", I kept it in Female because I could think of no other place to put it and feel it's fine where it is. Thoughts? Ideas? - Jaguara said OWWWWCH! at 18:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I masturbated for 2 days and it killed me user:111
Don't you all think that the Masturbation article needs a real picture of a man and/or woman masturbating?
Only if it's a hot women. Seriously, there's no way you could keep a guy whacking off up there. -- mboverload @ 02:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Personally I agree that an actual photographic image of a male and female masturbating would be appropriate for this article. It would be better than simple sketched images. They would need to be tasteful. Personally, I think that the current actual image of a female masturbating is a good example of this. User:Svartulfr1 17:54 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Well it appears that the image of a real woman masturbating was removed. Personally, I found the picture appropriate for an uncensored encyclopedia project. It was just a typical woman masturbating. It wasn't a picture from a pornographic site or anything like that. It was not obscene. Also, I do think that there should be a picture of a man masturbating as well. The sketches just don't seem to be adequate for their purpose. Lets do this the right way... The one who did the edit and removed the picture wants to discuss this before adding more pics. People adding more pics at this point will likely just result in a revert war. Therefore, lets talk it out and come to a consensus now. User:Svartulfr1 5:20 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I think I just solved your dilemma. Instead of using offensive, pornographic images, I've uploaded an enactment/demonstration of the posture. It's better than the drawings and doesn't have the taboo of showing someone masturbating. This is a photo I created myself. Personally, find masturbation offensive and I did this to help ease some consciences. (I just got my wikipedia account-- what a way to start off, eh?) (My upload is "Enactment of Human Male Masturbation.jpg") We'll see how it works out. -- User:678901 17:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, pictures are needed, even of a natural human behavior, as bad as that may be for those in denial of themselves. -- Trevor100a 21:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC) File:Ejaculation sample.jpg
Here is another picture,i believe these pictures are great for teens who want to learn how to masturbate:[URL= http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image002po4.jpg][IMG] http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1758/image002po4.jpg
Thanks for offering your image, Trevor. I note that the image has no tag showing it's copyright status, and will be deleted soon if you don't fix that.
It's a picture of himself.
I removed the sentence from the Religion section that said Buddhism and Unitarian Universalism ignore masturbation, because it was inaccurate. The article speaks to Buddhism's views not two paragraphs down, and Unitarian Universalist sexual education (AYS-About Your Sexuality, and later OWL-Our Whole Lives) actively incorporate discussion about masturbation as normal and healthy. 72.200.191.145 21:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
"Masturbation is universally legal"; I'm certain this is incorrect. See elsewhere in the page where it talks about the Islamic views on masturbation, and apply to Islamic countries. I've heard on one news source about it even having "beheading" as the penalty, however that particular instance may have been a fiction, as it was immediately followed by "but they didn't say which head". -- 81.174.210.207 23:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC) ( User:Whitepaw, not logged in too lazy).
At 14:56 on 27 July 2006, Logan.aggregate tagged this page with a template suggesting that it be split into separate articles accessible from a disambiguation page. He made the edit comment "This page is obviously too long". The template suggests that the matter be discussed on the article's talk page, and he added the anonymous comment, "This page is not an encyclopedia entry, it's an exhaustive diatribe. Seriously, somebody's compensating" at the top of this talk page.
Do others feel the need to discuss the issue? The page is currently 48 KB long, including 11.4 KB (11,625 B) of references, citations and cross-references at the end. WP:SIZE suggests a max page size of 32 KB, but says, "this once hard and fast rule has been softened and many articles exist which are over 32 KB of total text" It also makes a point about "readable prose", which "excludes: external links, further reading, references, footnotes, see also, and similar sections; tables, list-like sections, and similar content; and markup, interwiki links, URLs and similar formatting". None-the-less, some sections could be moved off into sub-articles, if a consensus wants that. -- Nigelj 21:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't know how something done to your genticals can have an effect on your eyes.
DOES IT?
want an article on intellectual masturbation, cheers.
This article needs to be expanded and have a section about teens and masturbation in this article.
So Be bold, and write it! We look forward to your contributions. -- Mnemeson 19:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Teen masturbation is very common
^You dont say/sarcasm. I think that a section on this is important since a lot of adults forget what it was like to be a teen and seem to think that no child would masturbate, although the reality is that even by the age of 12, nearly everyone masturbates, and very frequently.
Discussion on Guidelines for images in Sexology and Sexuality articles | |
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Click here |
Image:Masturbation techniques.jpg has been removed from this page twice in the last 24 hours by anon users. I am adding this section to the talk page so that if they think it's unencyclopedic they can come and talk about it rather than just deleting it unilaterally. For myself, I think it's a good and clear illustration of what we're talking about and that it should stay. Whether it stays or not, though, I'd rather it was discussed rather than simply deleted without discussion. The Wednesday Island 16:17, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I've given it some thought, and I think that the two drawings are representative of the article pretty well, and I'm not sure anything else is necessary. Neither they, nor the pictures of real persons help the article by showing historical or technical attributes of the article. Probably only one drawing would be sufficient to make the point. I suppose if we did that someone would complain. Also, we could reverse the order with woman first and them man, which might be nicer. There is also another drawn image of a womanmasturbating that I like better than this one see image, see: File:Masturbation feminine 4.jpg.
Also, there are others File:Masturbation feminine 2.jpg, File:Masturbation feminine 3.jpg, File:Masturbation feminine 3.jpg, File:Female masturbation 5.jpg, File:Female masturbation 6.jpg
If we want with just one intro image, to visually introduce the article, this one might be better
Others I do not prefer include: File:(5).jpg File:Erectpeniswhilemasturbating.jpg File:Femmasturbation.JPG File:IMG129.jpg File:Man masturbates.jpg File:Man masturbates2.jpg An editor has nominated the above file for discussion of its purpose and/or potential deletion. You are welcome to participate in the discussion and help reach a consensus.
I am going to try the Klimt Muhler version, and let's see how long it flies until we get reverted by someone who is offended by artwork?
Atom 12:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I like this image best to represent female masturbation:
File:Masturbation techniques.jpg and I am not picky about which one is used for male masturbation, but
File:Man masturbates.jpg illustrates it pretty well. I prefer real photos to sketches. What is the point really of just a sketch versus the real thing?
User:Svartulfr1 15:32 25 August 2006 (UTC)
The reason that we don't want a potentially erotic image is not because of censorship, but because we want the visually oriented person to instantly recognize what the topic is without being distracted in other ways. The reaosn I like the current (Klimt Muhler) version is because it is one image, and the sex of the person isn't important, and yet anyone seeing it instantly understand the topic, and yet even the most prudish person would likely not find it offensive. Atom 22:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree that Image:Masturbation techniques.jpg is a good image, and i'd say photos rather than sketches are always best, as has been said by numerous users above. I actually think a sketch seems more pornographic, in that it's drawing attention to the fact that this is a naughty taboo subject, too obscene to be shown in real life, which is nonsense, it's just a subject lke any other. I much prefer the honesty of a photo: 'yeah she's masturbating, she had her photo taken, so what, get over it.' There should be a similar image for male masturbation, none of those above are as tasteful as Image:Masturbation techniques.jpg, but i'd suggest using one of those if they're the best available. Do we need to have some sort of vote to reinstate the image? Will that work? Spute 22:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I think the article should have both a photo of a woman masturbating and a photo of a man masturbating. In the current version, there isn't even a drawing of a man masturbating alone (except the satyrs, but they're not even human!). Masturbation techniques.jpg should be the lead image, since it's the best photo we have. Mushroom ( Talk) 22:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I disagree, one photo is sufficient to introduce, that's my opinion. As for hurrying to a decision, we have gotten some input in only 24 hours, there is no need to hurry. Give it a few more days, let's see if there is a clear consensus. Maybe a few more pictures worthy of consideration will surface? Atom 00:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I followed the advice of some of the users that intervened by sending me messages encouraging me to upload my photo to commons.wikimedia.org. Thanks to all of you. < http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Geil31f.jpg> Ti_mi 17:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Now we just need to get that image back in the article. I think it belongs there more than any of the other images that are currently there or which have been debated about being there. Svartulfr1 02:35 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I have an image to consider. This is not actually a man masturbating, but is a demonstration of the posture. Yours for consideration. [See topic "Real Picture" above.] -- 678901 21:17, 31 August 2006.
I see that the images have been added now. Are these the ones everyone is happy with? I'm not too crazy about the male picture (Man masturbates.jpg). It doesn't seem to demonstrate well enough, which is what I think you would want for an encyclopedia. The clothes seem to get in the way, too. Something else to consider: the process will be a little different depending on whether or not the individual is circumcised. Should we consider two male photographs? Also, if you could explain why you do and do not like certain photographs, it would be a little more helpful. -- 678901 20:18, 5 September 2006. <-- Removed and re-added.
The consensus reached here through discussion seems to have been totally useless since anonymous users as well as user Future either insert images never discussed or delete was has been restored, notably Image:Masturbation techniques.jpg. The image itself has been deleted altogether from the data base by user JoshuaZ with the consequence that it is no longer visible here and that the whole section of discussing the "New Image" has become pointless. This is vandalism in a most irritating way. In the meantime, I have deleted all images in the controversial first section on masturbation. CarlosLuis 2:25, 6 September 2006.
What about images in motion, .gifs and such?
Robert
23:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, I got my photo fixed (it took me long enough). I had lost the original and had to redo the enactment. I think the second picture came out better anyway; I had more of an erection this time and I grasped further down, so you get a better picture of what is happening. -- 678901 19:15, 19 September 2006
Enactments shouldn't be considered "risk photos" (Like the photos CarlosLuis described). Perhaps we should get a few more to choose from, let everyone decide on a male and female photo, then add them to the page as linked photos (perhaps with a warning). Lets make this as much an encyclopedia as possible with the contents being as tasteful as possible! -- 678901 13:37, 20 September 2006
This discussion of images applies to numerous other articles, most of the sexology and sexuality oriented. I have begun a discussion of the broader topic on Wikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality/WIP-image-guidelines to have people participate in working on a guideline consensus (not a policy, or rules, as that hasn't been possible in the past). Having a consensus of people who have hashed this out and agreed on some guidelines will help in the future to combat against the types of problems we have had in the past. (Prudish people pushing their POV, Trolls trying to create controversy, Vanity images, etc.) Of course it won't be a solution to all problems, and they will still need to be dealt with on a case by case basis, but there really isn't a need to rehash the entire barrel of pickles on every image on every sexuality based page, and then again when someone tries to change an image. Atom 02:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
-- To solve the problem of undecided content, content that encourages vandalism, viewers being exposed to things they don't want to be exposed to and to expand the informativeness with more descriptive illustrations.
I've been giving this a lot of thought and I think the article needs to be redone in its presentation a little. Here is what I'd like to see. Tell me if others agree. Lets see if we can provide all of the content in a manner that doesn't encourage vandalism.
Goal:
*To be as sensitive as possible
*No photographs of people actually masturbating (photographs demonstrating the position are fine). Illustrations and art are also good. <- no "risk photos"
*To provide as much information as possible (clear visuals are a must).
*To choose pictures 'most' everyone is happy with.
The problem with this kind of thing is that not everyone can be happy with the decisions reached, and there is nothing stopping the unhappy people from having their way. Please be courteous and stand down of your idea is overruled.
Minor change in structure:
Give feedback and we can work on this together.
Pictures to include: This is a scratch board below. Change it if you have a better suggestion and explain why you think your suggestion is better. After the pictures have remained for a while we can conclude that it is what everyone has decided on. -- 678901
Female File:Masturbation feminine 4.jpg
Male File:Enactment of Human Male Masturbation.jpg
Masturbation frequency, age and sex File:Satirello che ne masturba un altro - Roma, Museo di Villa Giulia, foto di Giovanni Dall'Orto - marzo 2005.jpg
Masturbation in history and society File:Masturbating satyr, amasis painter.JPG
Masturbation Aids (if this topic is to be) File:Canard vibrant.jpg
[User:678901|678901]] 13:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
First, I want to say that I think we have already found a balance with the way that the article is now. I don't know that we need to talk about changing it.
Second, I appreciate the way that you are approaching the issue, in an attempt to find a consensus more toward your position. I'm not certain that we disagree substantially, but some of the things suggested above I'm not entirely in disagreement with.
Third, Wikpedia has standards on this. Although it is dfficult to find, and intepretation is subjective, there is guidance, and we should follow that.
Fourth, you suggest the following things:
Atom 19:42, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Atom,
I'm not saying that we should claim that the article is erotic/shameful. We can reword the warning. I'm just saying we should give people a heads-up before they dive into an article that has content of this nature. There are countless millions of people out there who would disagree with your view of masturbation being okay and would consider it erotic. We should be sensitive to them and not try to impose views on them like 'masturbation is okay' or 'masturbation is not okay.'
You may not say that there is any difference in a photograph demonstrating a position and a photograph of some one masturbating, because your view is that it is okay. But, again, lets be sensitive to people who do not share your views, to them there IS a big difference. One is a sexual act, and the other is nudity.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should consider all the views and try to be as neutral as possible. And it may require a little notice at the top of the page so that people know what they are going to see before they themselves choose to view the page. There is actually some controversy here whether most of us want to admit it or not.
You want to keep within the Shocking_Images policy: You yourself called this a natural human behavior and not including adequate illustrations would "cause the article to be less informative" in my opinion. I'll bet that most people here feel the same way. The topic is "Masturbation" which is an action that has two types of occurrences: Male and Female. I'd say that an image of some sort would help clarify that. Also, by including linked photographs we help remove some of the shock of these Shocking_Images, further complying with the policy.
You also talked about how the image should be the best image to illustrate the point. This is why I favor enactments. Actual photographs are controversial and could have the taboo of someone performing a sexual act; enactments of someone demonstrating the pose are less controversial (though I do admit there are still probably some who would find it offensive); and next comes drawings, which are not very descriptive, but could be an alternative if nothing else works out. Showing a photograph of someone in a position (an actual position used in masturbation) seems to be the best trade-off. The enactments can be accurate, more descriptive than a drawing and not have the effect of knowing that the individual in the photograph is performing a sexual act. This is for education alone. If you were trying to educate a group of college students, studying sexuality and foreign to the idea of masturbation (if it were possible). would you A) Masturbate in front of them, B) Show them what it looks like, but not perform the act in front of them, or C) Show them a sketch of something that could give them a vague idea of what might be happening. I assume that everyone would choose C. Now, if you take the embarrassment out of the equation, and remove all social consequences, and it was a purely educational event, very possibly B) would be more informative. Most people would agree, though, that A) is not even an option. The primary objective of Wikipedia is education. Pretending that the readers are your students helps keep things in perspective.
You also said that we should not consider whether or not a photograph is considered embarrassing, but we should just use what adds to the article. If it was just that the photo is embarrassing, it would be okay. But these photos can be considered offensive. We SHOULD consider whether or not a photograph is considered offensive. You, yourself, seem to hold this view with your comment of following the Shocking_Images policy. -- 678901 22:29, 21 September 2006
Perhaps a better warning would be: "Warning! This page contains content that may not be suitable for everyone. Wikipedia is not censored; proceed with discretion." -- 678901
I understand what you are trying to get at, and I respect it. My concern though, is that the defintion of obscene, offensive, or even embarrassing is subjective, and differs on a person by person basic, and can be affected by culture, religion, age, gender, and any number of other factors. Even if we were to agree (which is not likely on Wikipedia) to follow the lowest common denominator, we would likely still have people complain. Even were we to agree that the criteria were 1) No Pornographic images, 2) Must have direct applicability to the topic, and 3) The best image we have available to illistrate the point, we run into the subjectivity issue. In the U.S. (Wikipedia servers in State of Florida) it isn't important if it is offensive or embarrasing, it can't be obscene. Obscene, unfortunately, is a subjective interpretation. For something to be "obscene" it must be shown that the average person, applying contemporary community standards and viewing the material as a whole, would find (1) that the work appeals predominantly to "prurient" interest; (2) that it depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way; and (3) that it lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.
My assumption is that you are operating on good faith, with the best interests of Wikipedia here. I find that numerous people go into Wikipedia and feel that it is important that they impose their moral values and perspectives on others, and try to hold others to those values. Assuming that your intention is different, and that you are trying to make the best quality article while offending people as little as possible, there have to be some agreed upon policy or standards Wikipedia wide, not just for this article. (I edit all of the sexology and sexuality articles, and this issue is relevent to numerous articles, including Clitoris, Penis, Anus, Breast, Orgy, Kama Sutra, Creampie (sexual act), BDSM, Scrotum, Pegging, Fellatio, Cunnilingus, Dildo, Anal beads, Sexual Intercourse, mutual masturbation, Anal-oral contact, deep throat, tribadism, and frot among others. Again, see Wikipedia:Graphic and potentially disturbing images and how it failed to resolve anything. In fact, the majority (33-4) voted for "Do nothing now, as there's not really a problem now. Revist this if it ever becomes a widespread problem that can't adequately be handled on a case by case basis on individual article talk pages as it is now. Policy should only ever be developed on an as needed basis, as excessive policy is both wasteful and harmful. Shane King 00:54, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC) "
As you point out, certainly Wikipedia:Profanity#Shocking_images is a guideline we want to try and follow. Remember that we all use WIkipedia under Wikipedia:Content_disclaimer, which includes "Wikipedia contains many different images, some of which are considered objectionable or offensive by some readers. For example, some articles contain graphical depictions of violence, or depictions of human anatomy. ". Clearly if we feel an image will add quality to the article, and we have a selection of images available, we should gain consensus on whichof those images best illustrates the point, while having the least possibility of offending. That will continue to be a case by case analysis.
Atom 23:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
No warning is necessary, we do not need to cater to people who are embarrassed about sex. Nor do we need to reorganiza and modify images wholesale - when better ones come along let's by all means include them, but I saw no such images in the group above. Haiduc 00:07, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, it appears that the majority will not want a warning. I guess it goes along with the uncensored thing, that people should proceed through the whole wikipedia knowing what they might expect. I think it would be a good idea, but if most of you feel the same way I'll back off from pushing for it. But I still think that using actual masturbation photographs is a bad idea. Wikipedia has policies. If we can't agree on the type of photographs we should use the sketches.
About the obscene variable. Atom, you said the images are permitted for science. Would education be too much of a stretch? If not, the order of obscene is: actual photograph, enactment photograph, sketch. And we should choose one kind of illustration that is the best balance between informative and obscene.
If you have a better idea for the images to use, please change the image in the scratch board I made above. Then, we'll talk about it. Most of it is the current state of the article. I've changed a few things (example: I think the extra chastity belt is redundant). Now, modify them and we'll discuss them.
I think we're clear that there are two main groups here: The group that says any image that adds to the topic goes, and the group (mainly me) that says we cannot do that because Wikipedia has set standards; call them standards to be offensive or not. <-- I'm sorry but that's how I see it! Keep posting comments this is what the discussion is for.
But Atom is right about obscenity being an important consideration. -- 678901
Someone just put up a new picture. This is not what we have agreed upon. -- 678901
Some unpleasant character blanked a lot of important information from this article - including nearly all of the references and citations (so, for an anon, they knew what they were doing ;-) - in one big edit yesterday. Nobody seeemed to notice and so it was not reverted at the time. Instead, well-meaning people have been tidying up and trying to make sense of what's left. I'm just looking through the other edits since the vandalism with a view to reverting the whole article back to before that edit - I've tried putting it back bit-by-bit and it's too hard, especially including edit conflicts with people trying to tidy the remainder while I try to reinstate! -- Nigelj 20:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I had a user complain about my earlier edit removing the fleshlight when the Tenga was left in.
I created a section at the end, for reference, and put them there, and took them out of the main article.
I'm not convinced that they need to be there(at the end) either, but thought I would try to be fair. The argument is that these devices are a tool for helping men masturbate. (as if we/they need any more help!?)
Let's see if the new section lasts, or is vaporized. Either way, no concern to me. Atom 21:03, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Several people have complained about various edits putting in Fleshlight, Tenga and other male masturbation aids. The latest one moved Fleshlight into the references because it was notable enough to have a wikipedia article, and then delete the other, Tenga, as commercial spam. I really don't care, but if these are valid aids, and many people use them, let's find the way that we can refer to them without commercial spam, all agree, and do it that way rather than removing them and re-adding them. Atom 21:03, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm fine with having the Fleshlight reference in that special section you created. But not the Tenga links, because they are outside the Wikipedia. If Tenga is really notable or worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, let whoever cares enough create a page for it and let that page survive or be deleted on its own merits. IMHO sneaking in these links to Tenga is a way around the requirement that material on Wikipedia should be notable (sorry, I'm not enough of a wiki-expert to reference the rules requirement directly). We all know whats really going on here. Nowadays Wikipedia traffic is very valuable and leads to lots of sales. And Wikipedia shows up in the first results for many google searches so having your product mentioned on Wikipedia is a great way to get traffic. The Fleshlight page has already survived two concerted attempts to delete it, and thus is notable by concensus. Let's apply the same standard to all products.
And either way, a *SINGLE LINK* to Tenga is all that should be allowed, if even that.
On second thought, isnt this inevitably gonna lead to a special section being created for Female Masturbation Aids? And then the floodgates will really open with a lot of products fighting for having a reference or link in that section.... You may want to consider that.
Sheesh, never mind. :) That didnt survive very long.
Also it looks like the multiple (I count 3) links to Tenga are still there? So do you want to have an edit war? I'm up for it and I feel completely justified. user:192.18.43.10
First of all, when anonymous users who aren't registered make changes, many wikipedians are suspicious that it is yet another vandalism attempt. My suggestion is that you would gain more credibility if you signed in and created a user page for yourself. Another point is, if you aren't aware of how to sign your name after your comments, people wonder about your credibility as an editor, and your familiarity with the Wikipedia rules. Just put four tildes after your comments, please. "~~~~
Secondly, both the Fleshlight and the Tenga are commercial products. Fleshlight has no special notability. It is true that it has a wikipedia page, and that's nice, but doesn't make it non-commercial.
There is alot of information that is referenced in the various external links sections of hundreds of articles that are not notable. Notability is not required in order for it to be listed as an external reference, or under a See Also or similar. Some consensus on notability is required for it to have its own wikipedia article.
If we are going to have some commercial products listed, as long as it seems a valid benefit, and on topic, and we aren't pointing to a commercial site, I don't see the problem. The fleshlight and tenga references both do not point to commercial sites. The Fleshlight point to the Wiki article, and the Tenga points to a web Blog where it is reviewed (no place to purchase).
OR we could just decide, per your rationale, to not allow any references to commercial products. I'm not sure what your issue is with the Tenga, as it looks like a pretty cool competitor to the Fleshlight. Once it is less new, I'm sure it will be as notable as with Fleshlight is, as they are essentially the same product. (Although the Tenga has a cooler design, IMO).
In any event, words like (and I am quoting) "So do you want to have an edit war? I'm up for it and I feel completely justified." don't fit into the wikipedia rules. Please see Wikipedia:Five_pillars. I have put it, and some other useful stuff on your web page at User:192.18.43.10. I also think Wikipedia:Civility and Wikipedia:Etiquette are beneficial.
Generally when there is a difference of opinion on things, we allow BOTH perspectives to be expressed, and then see if we can use the talk page to gain consensus.
Please feel free to leave me a message on my talk( User_Talk:Atomaton) page if I can be helpful in assisting you. Atom 21:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I think a brief discussion of both male and female masturbation aids is appropriate with links to appropriate articles in Wikipedia where available. We don't need to provide links to company webpages where toys can be purchased. If people want to buy toys, they can find them without Wikipedia's aid well enough, but certainly some discussion of masturbation aids is both relevant and appropriate for this article to be complete.
Svartulfr1 02:38 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I find it strange that Wikipedia contributions are judged by whom they come from rather than on content. Is Wikipedia evolving into a reputation system now? Why then even support anonymous editing? My contributions were on-topic and according to all the guidelines that I know (I probably don't know all the guidelines). I expressed my opinions as best I could, and I stated that I feel strongly about being in the right here, so that it would lead to either a civil discussion or an edit war. I offered to take up the civil discussion alternative :)
My rationale for allowing links or disallowing them is simple. If you think something should be linked to, from Wikipedia, IMHO it should be notable and significant, and so these things justify it having a Wikipedia page of its own. Therefore the logical conclusion is that if you want to link to Tenga's product page, you should really confine those links to Tenga's own Wikipedia page and link instead from here to that Wikipedia page. I'm not opposed to links to commercial sites, but a link from this page to *one* particular commercial site designed to sell *one* particular product, is IMHO out of place and invites an inevitable edit war where other product proponents will claim the right to have *their* link also represented. I don't think we want to go there.
And no, I'm not going to bother to register, because that would just strengthen your argument that contributions from named members are somehow more valuable, an argument I find really strange and at odds with Wikipedia's whole approach. 192.18.43.11 17:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree with the anonymous user from 192.18.43.11, the Tenga should have its own wikipedia page and all links to Tenga sites should be from that page. I'd welcome seeing more resources about Tenga, such as is it suited to the American market, who distributes it here, and so on. Start your own page, and link from here, by all means! 209.233.24.218 01:00, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
This section in the beginning, re "mutual masturbation", is confusing: "either by oneself or by another" -- is that really "BY another" or "WITH another" ? Surely a handjob wouldn't count as "autoeroticism"?
I've started an archive at April 2006 – July 2006 but haven't had a chance to finish. Add as you will. -- BillWeiss | Talk 04:43, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I just removed the half-sentence from "though this is" to "support it" as it was inserted by an anonymous user (yes, like me) without giving sources. So I deducted that it was very biased pro-circ and deliberately vandalizing the article. After all, let's not forget that masturbation was the reason circumcision was installed as a national habit in the US in the first place. So pro-circers cannot have a word in this article, I believe. Not without citing good sources that is.
The sentence now reads: "Although there are countless masturbation techniques for men, uncircumcised males are said to have more sexual arousal than circumcised males due to the rubbing of the foreskin on the glans."
If anybody feels like deleting that, too, because it admittedly sounds more like hearsay than good WP style, I have no objection. But the other part of that sentence definitely had to go, I believe:
"though this is a widely disputed claim with only mild anectdotal evidence to support it."
Terms like "widely disputed" and "mild anecdotal" (even spelt incorrectly through to the very last previous version) are clearly not NPOV.
The insertion of the deleted part was made 10:19, 25 August 2006 under IP 67.183.117.8
87.78.178.102 16:42, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Hello people wake up! I post here a website which - in my opinion - shows the truth of masturbation. Please consider it and make a link to this page. Even if you don't believe it maybe someone will. It can help many people to face the truth about this "vice". I'm not a vandal and/or crazy, please consider it. I'd experienced it on myself. Thanks.
http://www.anael.org/english/masturbation/index.htm
P.S. Wikipedia masturbation is the first page which opens when you seek 'masturbation', so it could be helpful.
11:36 AM, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I dunno, because there are no bad "consequences"?
I like this quote from your web site best, I think, "Vice of masturbation totally ruins the brain's potency. It is necessary to know of an intimate relation between semen and brain. It is necessary to semen the brain and to brain the semen. To semen the brain is possible by transmuting the sexual energy, sublimating it, turning it into brain's potency. In this form we can semen the brain and brain the semen".
Atom 12:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it's sad but true...
I note that "onanism" redirects here, which it maybe shouldn't - I'm aware that some people use the word to mean masturbation, but doesn't it actually refer to the wasting of seed (i.e. any kind of non-procreative male orgasm)? This was kind of an obessession in late C19 France, which I'm currently working on, see. Ajcounter 10:18, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually it referse to disobeying god and being struck down. Onanism, has nothing to do with masturbation, or "spilling seed". (See Onan). "Onan was required by the tradition of levirate marriage to marry Er's widow Tamar. According to Genesis 38:7-9, when he had sexual intercourse with Tamar he "spilt his seed upon the ground" because the resulting child would be considered his late brother's, not his. In response to this transgression, God killed Onan. The transgression was disobeying God, not spilling his seed upon the ground"
Onanism is linked to masturbation. Masturbation unless based on a fantasy of your bride is a sin, and the term for that sin is onanism.
Editor18
08:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
While I do not oppose the use of paintings, carvings et cetera in the article, I can not find a reason why there would be no accurate/real pictures of masturbation. -- A Sunshade Lust 22:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't see us getting a reputation for pornography anytime soon. I haven't seen any pornography on Wikipedia, and I edit all of the sexology and sexuality pages. Maybe Wikipedia will get a reputation like National Geographic had at one time, but that is okay. The images are normal, healthy images of sexuality, not porn. Maybe someone will learn something? Atom 00:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
We are working on guidelines for images on sexology and sexuality articles at Wikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality/WIP-image-guidelines. Johntex is one of the people participating. The first thing mentioned is that Wikipedia does not Censor. We do have editorial choices in choosing images that are best for the quality of the article, while minimizing the risk of offending people. The reputation of Wikipedia is that it is "real" about "real" things, and does not censor. Not censoring, and allowing illegal images are entirely different things. For one user a picture of a male anus (see anus may offensive. For someone else, a picture of a woman may be offensive. Neither are pornographic, or illegal in the United States. Given a choice of images, the image the portrays the concept of the sectio of the article, while minimizing the potential for offense should be chosen. Atom 20:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
According to news reports of IM conversations reprinted on Wikipedia, the page Foley communicated with masturbates in the face-down position, making him a practitioner of "traumatic masturnatory syndrome" as described in this article. Should this be noted somewhere? This is the first "famous" practitioner of TMS that has been reported, even if he is still anonymous. 4.156.84.92 20:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
The article doesn't say what percentage of people (male/female) masturbates overall! It only says how many start at a particular age, not how many start at all. Paranoid 08:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
"Standing up, the corner of an item of furniture, or even a washing machine, can be used to stimulate the clitoris through the labia and clothing."
Brian Hamilton's assertion that uncircumcised is wrong is itself flawed. "Intact" is a weak, non-specific word - read as "nothing's happened" whereas "uncircumsised" is a much stronger term, asserting that it is circumcision that is being discussed, not general wear and tear, or getting it caught in your zip. With regard his suggestion that the word implies that it should have happened, but didn't, that is simply wrong: if your football/baseball team has an uninterupted string of victories, do you read that as meaning that they should have lost a game, but didn't? If a broadway show is "Unmissable" do you understand that to mean that it should be missable, but manages to escape missability? If your Wikipedia edits are "unmisstakable" does that mean that by some fluke your ordinary, misstakable edits are distinct from the next guys? No uncircumcised accurately emphasises the point that circumcision has not taken place. -- Bilbo B 07:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)