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Nominator: Balance person ( talk · contribs) 15:15, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Mike Christie ( talk · contribs) 18:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
I'll review this.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
18:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Images are appropriately tagged.
Looking at the sources:
- What makes the following
reliable sources? I'm not saying they're not, just that I can't tell.
- aubreylewis2.com -- I can't find an "About" page, but just judging from the name of the domain I wonder if it's the work of a single person.
- theclio.com -- looks like this is user editable, which isn't allowed -- e.g. see here.
- researchersgateway.com
- blackpast.org -- per this it's crowd-sourced
- tuesdayforumcharlotte.org
- chalkboardchampions.org
Since the article might change if any of these have to be removed, I'll pause the review until these questions are resolved. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 19:47, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the prompts. Today has been manic...hope to get to it tomorrow. Hope that is okay. Balance person ( talk) 18:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, no worries -- if you take a week to reply I'll ping you just to check in, but that's just to make sure you're still planning to work on it.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
18:55, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Mike,
- Two things are coming clear to me! One is that it is very difficult to find sources for people who have done great things if they are long gone and were marginalised in their time by colour and gender. So I was attempting to get as wide a variety of sources as I could. Secondly, I need to learn more about what is an acceptable source for Wikipedia. Happy to learn this. So with this is in mind, having read the pages on reliable sources and following the prompts you suggested:
- aubreylewis is indeed a single person.
- theclio.com would do as a reference for the fact that Patterson's house is now on a walking tour. But otherwise I cannot find the original sources for what they state.
- researchers gateway is a set of blogs
- blackpast.org does have an academic advisory board here: https://www.blackpast.org/about-us/advisory-board/ Does that count?
- tuesdayforumcharlotte.org is a group forum and I think the forum members can write pretty much what they like for an article.
- chalkboardchampions.org is a blog
- So, should I strip out all these citations? I was mostly using them for variety so I would probably need to re cite certain parts using the reliable sources that I do have?
- Thanks for your time on this.
Balance person (
talk)
11:49, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think blackpast.org is OK, after having had another look; they do have an expert editorial board and they say they verify all submissions for accuracy before posting. Theclio.com says something similar but it's less clear how the vetting works. Given that you're just using it to say it's on a walking tour I think you can keep it, but I don't think it would be good enough for the higher standards needed if you were to take this article to
featured level. Blackpast.org might also be questioned at that level. I think the other four sources should probably be removed unless you can find other evidence indicating they are reliable.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
12:44, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. I have removed the other four sources. I think everything is still referenced and cited. Unless I have missed something! Balance person ( talk) 13:41, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think blackpast.org is OK, after having had another look; they do have an expert editorial board and they say they verify all submissions for accuracy before posting. Theclio.com says something similar but it's less clear how the vetting works. Given that you're just using it to say it's on a walking tour I think you can keep it, but I don't think it would be good enough for the higher standards needed if you were to take this article to
featured level. Blackpast.org might also be questioned at that level. I think the other four sources should probably be removed unless you can find other evidence indicating they are reliable.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
12:44, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
OK, looks good. I'll do spotchecks next; footnote numbers refer to this version.
- FN 13 cites "While in Washington D.C., Patterson lived with her sisters, Emma and Chanie, and her brother, John at 1532 Fifteenth Street Northwest. In the late 1880s, Patterson's parents came to live with them due to financial difficulties. Patterson was unable to travel to attend an Oberlin alumni event due to financial difficulties and family responsibilities." I don't have access to this source; can you quote the relevant passage for me?
- FN 17 cites "In 1869 to 1871, Patterson taught in Washington, D. C., at the Preparatory High School for Colored Youth, known today as Dunbar High School. Dunbar was the first public high school for African Americans in the USA." Verified.
- FN 14 cites "The influential abolitionist Lucy Stanton Day Sessions was a fellow Oberlin alumna alongside Mary Jane Patterson. Stanton graduated twelve years before Patterson but was not enrolled in a program offering the equivalent degree." Verified.
- FN 11 cites "Henry Patterson, who as a child was friends with future US president Andrew Johnson". Verified.
Just the one quote needed for verification.
Reading through the article:
- The lead is a bit short for an article of this length; can you expand it a bit?
- "It was rare in the pre-reconstruction era of the History of African-American education for both young African American men and women to get a good education": I would make this just "It was rare in the pre-reconstruction era for both young African American men and women to get a good education". If you want to keep the link to the article, I would suggest creating a "See also" section at the end.
- The quote from Terrell near the end of the article needs to have a citation attached to it, rather than just the inline parenthetical attribution it has now.
That's everything I can see. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 18:24, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Mike, Try as I might I cannot recover the source for FN 13 so have removed it. I will keep trying to remember how on earth I got access to it! The lead has been lengthened. The unnecessary link has been removed. The Terrell quote is now properly cited.
- This is good exercise!
Balance person (
talk)
11:11, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Glad you're finding it useful! I tweaked the Terrell citation a bit as I think the reader needs to know who said that, but that's the only change. I'm going to go ahead and pass this; congratulations. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 16:18, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
| GA toolbox |
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| Reviewing |
Article (
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visual edit |
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Article talk (
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Nominator: Balance person ( talk · contribs) 15:15, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Mike Christie ( talk · contribs) 18:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
I'll review this.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
18:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Images are appropriately tagged.
Looking at the sources:
- What makes the following
reliable sources? I'm not saying they're not, just that I can't tell.
- aubreylewis2.com -- I can't find an "About" page, but just judging from the name of the domain I wonder if it's the work of a single person.
- theclio.com -- looks like this is user editable, which isn't allowed -- e.g. see here.
- researchersgateway.com
- blackpast.org -- per this it's crowd-sourced
- tuesdayforumcharlotte.org
- chalkboardchampions.org
Since the article might change if any of these have to be removed, I'll pause the review until these questions are resolved. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 19:47, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the prompts. Today has been manic...hope to get to it tomorrow. Hope that is okay. Balance person ( talk) 18:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, no worries -- if you take a week to reply I'll ping you just to check in, but that's just to make sure you're still planning to work on it.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
18:55, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Mike,
- Two things are coming clear to me! One is that it is very difficult to find sources for people who have done great things if they are long gone and were marginalised in their time by colour and gender. So I was attempting to get as wide a variety of sources as I could. Secondly, I need to learn more about what is an acceptable source for Wikipedia. Happy to learn this. So with this is in mind, having read the pages on reliable sources and following the prompts you suggested:
- aubreylewis is indeed a single person.
- theclio.com would do as a reference for the fact that Patterson's house is now on a walking tour. But otherwise I cannot find the original sources for what they state.
- researchers gateway is a set of blogs
- blackpast.org does have an academic advisory board here: https://www.blackpast.org/about-us/advisory-board/ Does that count?
- tuesdayforumcharlotte.org is a group forum and I think the forum members can write pretty much what they like for an article.
- chalkboardchampions.org is a blog
- So, should I strip out all these citations? I was mostly using them for variety so I would probably need to re cite certain parts using the reliable sources that I do have?
- Thanks for your time on this.
Balance person (
talk)
11:49, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think blackpast.org is OK, after having had another look; they do have an expert editorial board and they say they verify all submissions for accuracy before posting. Theclio.com says something similar but it's less clear how the vetting works. Given that you're just using it to say it's on a walking tour I think you can keep it, but I don't think it would be good enough for the higher standards needed if you were to take this article to
featured level. Blackpast.org might also be questioned at that level. I think the other four sources should probably be removed unless you can find other evidence indicating they are reliable.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
12:44, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. I have removed the other four sources. I think everything is still referenced and cited. Unless I have missed something! Balance person ( talk) 13:41, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think blackpast.org is OK, after having had another look; they do have an expert editorial board and they say they verify all submissions for accuracy before posting. Theclio.com says something similar but it's less clear how the vetting works. Given that you're just using it to say it's on a walking tour I think you can keep it, but I don't think it would be good enough for the higher standards needed if you were to take this article to
featured level. Blackpast.org might also be questioned at that level. I think the other four sources should probably be removed unless you can find other evidence indicating they are reliable.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
12:44, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
OK, looks good. I'll do spotchecks next; footnote numbers refer to this version.
- FN 13 cites "While in Washington D.C., Patterson lived with her sisters, Emma and Chanie, and her brother, John at 1532 Fifteenth Street Northwest. In the late 1880s, Patterson's parents came to live with them due to financial difficulties. Patterson was unable to travel to attend an Oberlin alumni event due to financial difficulties and family responsibilities." I don't have access to this source; can you quote the relevant passage for me?
- FN 17 cites "In 1869 to 1871, Patterson taught in Washington, D. C., at the Preparatory High School for Colored Youth, known today as Dunbar High School. Dunbar was the first public high school for African Americans in the USA." Verified.
- FN 14 cites "The influential abolitionist Lucy Stanton Day Sessions was a fellow Oberlin alumna alongside Mary Jane Patterson. Stanton graduated twelve years before Patterson but was not enrolled in a program offering the equivalent degree." Verified.
- FN 11 cites "Henry Patterson, who as a child was friends with future US president Andrew Johnson". Verified.
Just the one quote needed for verification.
Reading through the article:
- The lead is a bit short for an article of this length; can you expand it a bit?
- "It was rare in the pre-reconstruction era of the History of African-American education for both young African American men and women to get a good education": I would make this just "It was rare in the pre-reconstruction era for both young African American men and women to get a good education". If you want to keep the link to the article, I would suggest creating a "See also" section at the end.
- The quote from Terrell near the end of the article needs to have a citation attached to it, rather than just the inline parenthetical attribution it has now.
That's everything I can see. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 18:24, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Mike, Try as I might I cannot recover the source for FN 13 so have removed it. I will keep trying to remember how on earth I got access to it! The lead has been lengthened. The unnecessary link has been removed. The Terrell quote is now properly cited.
- This is good exercise!
Balance person (
talk)
11:11, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Glad you're finding it useful! I tweaked the Terrell citation a bit as I think the reader needs to know who said that, but that's the only change. I'm going to go ahead and pass this; congratulations. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 16:18, 7 July 2024 (UTC)