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Since "Marvin Gaye" was how the subject presented himself in the entertainment industry, that constitutes his stage name, and in my judgment, needs to presented in total at the beginning of the lead. This is how the world knew of him and thus WP:COMMONNAME applies to the article time, so I don't see why this doesn't apply to the lead as well. Using language like "who also spelled his surname as Gaye" appears to minimize his use of this name, like it's not key. We currently have two editors to one who prefer to use the text "better known as Marvin Gaye", which seems to be the common way to show stage names in articles. That the first name is repeated doesn't seem to be wrong in particular. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 22:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
StefenTower is trying too hard to justify treating slight discrepancies as "stage names". It's also completely absurd to say it "conveys and inaccuracy" to go with "also spelled his surname as". The reality is this shows how multiple spellings were used. If the "Gaye is a stage name for Gay" logic were true, then Dave Matthews as an example would've been counted as one simply for the minor difference of using the informal "Dave" nickname for "David". See how absurd this would sound? Contrast it with someone like Shawn Carter who goes by Jay-Z, Yaneisha Franklin being known as Sasha Go Hard, Elizabeth Grant having the stage name Lana Del Ray, or (going closer to legal identity) Alicia Cook using the alias Alicia Keys. As for the passport bit Jpgordon mentioned, that helps support what I thought of him using it as an alternate spelling. This isn't simply something used for musical endeavors. It also shows he didn't drop the middle name when adopting the version with an E. SNUGGUMS ( talk / edits) 06:11, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
The passport does help corroborate how the middle name stayed in place. Using "known professionally as" incorrectly implies he took on something not part of legal identity (it would be a stretch to say the E counts as a different name altogether), plus it needlessly repeats first name. SNUGGUMS ( talk / edits) 15:19, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
I browsed newspapers.com last night and saw mentions of Gaye changing his name at the beginning of his career, but I never saw phrasing like "legally changed". But perhaps the combo of his passport and death certificate, along with secondary source mentions of "changed his name" would be good enough to suffice. So the question then becomes "How do we present this as his legal name?". At the very least, IMHO, it should not be presented as a secondary thing, especially as Marvin Gaye is the name he is widely known for. It should be the primary name. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 21:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
So, does the above (most recent replies) mean we have agreement on writing the following: "Marvin Pentz Gaye Jr. ( né Gay; April 2, 1939 – April 1, 1984), who performed as Marvin Gaye, was an American singer and songwriter."? Of course, we can fill in cites wherever needed in due course. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 20:30, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
In all honesty, his suffix isn't a problem at all and there's nothing wrong with the opening sentence maintaining that. Jpgordon's rationale for why we don't need the "who performed as" bit is 100% correct, and the examples given on Sinatra and Nicholson convey my exact thoughts for the matter. SNUGGUMS ( talk / edits) 02:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
If the denomination in which Gaye was raised was essentially a Black Hebrew Israelite sect, and had elements of Judaism, why is this fact mentioned in other articles about Marvin Gaye, but not this Wikipedia article? 98.123.38.211 ( talk) 02:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 January 2024 and 30 April 2024. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
R0bwill12 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by R0bwill12 ( talk) 22:31, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Here is a place to discuss. Apparently, Gaye's real name contained Jr. upon death per File:Marvin gaye death cert.jpg. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 06:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Marvin Gaye article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | Marvin Gaye was one of the Music good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Since "Marvin Gaye" was how the subject presented himself in the entertainment industry, that constitutes his stage name, and in my judgment, needs to presented in total at the beginning of the lead. This is how the world knew of him and thus WP:COMMONNAME applies to the article time, so I don't see why this doesn't apply to the lead as well. Using language like "who also spelled his surname as Gaye" appears to minimize his use of this name, like it's not key. We currently have two editors to one who prefer to use the text "better known as Marvin Gaye", which seems to be the common way to show stage names in articles. That the first name is repeated doesn't seem to be wrong in particular. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 22:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
StefenTower is trying too hard to justify treating slight discrepancies as "stage names". It's also completely absurd to say it "conveys and inaccuracy" to go with "also spelled his surname as". The reality is this shows how multiple spellings were used. If the "Gaye is a stage name for Gay" logic were true, then Dave Matthews as an example would've been counted as one simply for the minor difference of using the informal "Dave" nickname for "David". See how absurd this would sound? Contrast it with someone like Shawn Carter who goes by Jay-Z, Yaneisha Franklin being known as Sasha Go Hard, Elizabeth Grant having the stage name Lana Del Ray, or (going closer to legal identity) Alicia Cook using the alias Alicia Keys. As for the passport bit Jpgordon mentioned, that helps support what I thought of him using it as an alternate spelling. This isn't simply something used for musical endeavors. It also shows he didn't drop the middle name when adopting the version with an E. SNUGGUMS ( talk / edits) 06:11, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
The passport does help corroborate how the middle name stayed in place. Using "known professionally as" incorrectly implies he took on something not part of legal identity (it would be a stretch to say the E counts as a different name altogether), plus it needlessly repeats first name. SNUGGUMS ( talk / edits) 15:19, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
I browsed newspapers.com last night and saw mentions of Gaye changing his name at the beginning of his career, but I never saw phrasing like "legally changed". But perhaps the combo of his passport and death certificate, along with secondary source mentions of "changed his name" would be good enough to suffice. So the question then becomes "How do we present this as his legal name?". At the very least, IMHO, it should not be presented as a secondary thing, especially as Marvin Gaye is the name he is widely known for. It should be the primary name. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 21:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
So, does the above (most recent replies) mean we have agreement on writing the following: "Marvin Pentz Gaye Jr. ( né Gay; April 2, 1939 – April 1, 1984), who performed as Marvin Gaye, was an American singer and songwriter."? Of course, we can fill in cites wherever needed in due course. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 20:30, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
In all honesty, his suffix isn't a problem at all and there's nothing wrong with the opening sentence maintaining that. Jpgordon's rationale for why we don't need the "who performed as" bit is 100% correct, and the examples given on Sinatra and Nicholson convey my exact thoughts for the matter. SNUGGUMS ( talk / edits) 02:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
If the denomination in which Gaye was raised was essentially a Black Hebrew Israelite sect, and had elements of Judaism, why is this fact mentioned in other articles about Marvin Gaye, but not this Wikipedia article? 98.123.38.211 ( talk) 02:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 January 2024 and 30 April 2024. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
R0bwill12 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by R0bwill12 ( talk) 22:31, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Here is a place to discuss. Apparently, Gaye's real name contained Jr. upon death per File:Marvin gaye death cert.jpg. Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 06:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)